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Expected apple lineup using 970 - Page 2

post #41 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>I wish the Mac community didnt behave like such a bunch of sheep. We need to hold Apples feet to the fire. We like to blame Motorola, Microsoft, and other lesser villains, but we should bring Apple to task as well. They can do better. For far too long, they have used and abused the loyalty of the Mac community. They have also failed in their most basic mission and promise to their shareholders. That of increasing market share with all the ramifications that this entails. I dont want to switch. I really dont. I used Macs exclusively since grade school. But I feel like Apple is almost forcing me to.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe where you live there's not this interesting concept called consumer freedom. The way to tell Apple to change is to switch.

Why do people buy expensive german cars? In most respects they are inferior to american and japanese equivalents. But there's amystique about them that causes people to but them. Try calling Mercedes and telling them "Make really plain cars that are cheaper." Not going to happen.
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post #42 of 76
Youre talking to an in-and-out Mac fanatic. Where I live, 99.999999999999999 use Windows. I want to support Apple. To me, what youre saying almost sounds treasonous. There must be a way short of abandoning the platform for someone like me to affect Apple. Am I really so exceptional, and Am I really asking for soooo much?
post #43 of 76
This is pure speculation.

----------------

Three PowerPC 970s

1.2 GHz, 1.5GHz and 1.8GHz

Three Northbridges, all with a GigaWire master controller and connection to the Southbridge.

N1:

Dual-970 Support (600/750/900MHz Bus)
Dual-channel DDR (266/333/400MHz)
Gigabit Ethernet MAC
AGP 8X

N2:

Single-970 Support (600/750/900MHz Bus)
Dual-channel DDR (266/333/400MHz)
Gigabit Ethernet MAC
AGP 8X Controller

N3:

Dual-970 Support (600/750/900MHz Bus)
Dual-channel DDR (266/333/400MHz)
Dual Gigabit Ethernet MACs
64-bit PCI Controller

A common Southbridge with GigaWire, S1:

800Mb FireWire (connected to PHY)
4-USB2 ports
Serial ATA
CardBus for AirPort, BootROM, etc.

A 24-bit Analog-out Audio Chip with GigaWire, A1:

A Line-In port
Combined Line-Out and Front Speaker port
A Center/Sub port
A Rear speaker port
A Headphone port

An Integrated Chip, the i1 without GigaWire.

Single-970 support
Single-channel DDR266/333/400 support
Gigabit Ethernet
AGP 8X
800Mb FireWire (connected to PHY)
4-USB2 ports
Serial ATA
Line Out/Front, Center/Sub, Rear, Headphone
Cardbus for Airport, BootROM etc.

---------------

GigaWire transmits USB, ATA and PCI data over 133, 266, 533 and 1066 MB/s connections. A Master Controller assigns an address to every USB, ATA and PCI port controlled by a GigaWire Secondary Controller. Data then moves in a chain up or down the addresses.

There are 8 data lines and 2 grounds. The 8 data lines can be upstream or downstream. An upstream and downstream line communicates what lines will be up and what will be down in the next transmittion simultanious with the current 2Hz transmittion. The up/down lines also communicate the address of the (up to 2-byte) packet. A packet is broadcasted up or down the chain until a device with that address recieves it, and "lifts" it out of the chain.

GigaWire is basically for transmitting different kinds of data over a chain of 12 tracers/wires. GigaWire can be used internally or externally. The northbridge and southbridge for instance appear as PCI devices, and the southbridge can send USB data to the northbridge to the AGP port.

---------------

The Power Mac is replaced by a stackable modular design (with about an 8"x8" footprint) at the introduction of the PowerPC 970 in mid-2003. The modules (except for the Power Supply) use GigaWire to communicate.

As standard the Xmac (X being "I can't think of a good name so I'll use an X") is just a Core and Power Supply.

Dual 1.2GHz is $1499, Dual 1.5GHz is $1999, Dual 1.8GHz is $2999.

A Power Supply module with 6x 12V outputs and a USB port.

A UPS module with a battery, 6x 12V outputs and a USB port.

A Core module with the motherboard (with un-upgradable dual CPUs, 4x RAM slots and an AGP 8X slot), one CD and one HDD bay. The motherboard uses the N1, S1 and A1 chips.

A PCI module with a Gigabit/PCI secondary controller and 6 or so PCI slots.

A Hard Disk module with a Gigabit/ATA secondary controller and 4 Bays/4 ATA Channels.

A PCI/Hard Disk module with a Gigabit/PCI secondary controller, 4 Bays and 2 PCI cards.

A CD Module with a Gigabit/ATA secondary controller and 2 Bays/1 ATA channel.

-------------

Apple Display Connector and Pro Speaker Minijack are thrown out, instead using the 12V connectors on the PSU or UPS for power.

-------------

In 2004 the Xserve G5, PowerBook G5 and iMac G5 are introduced, using at 90nm PowerPC 970.

The PowerBook G5 uses the N2, S1 and A1 chips.

The Xserve uses the N3 and S1 chips.

The iMac G5 uses the i1 chip.

The iBook G5, introduced in 2005, will use the i1 chip.

--------------

Barto

[ 10-19-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
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post #44 of 76
How much is the modular power mac going to cost?
Probably at a premium to the current ones since there will be less reason to upgrade in the fure. Why not just keep the 970 in a regular tower. The Power Mac G4 is already one of the most easiest to upgrade computers ever. A modular design will just add costs.
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post #45 of 76
It would probably cost less. No need for PCI slots, less materials, etc.

It would cost more when you add more modules to the base core/power supply, but it gives people the freedom to buy Power Macs with the degree of expandability they want.

Also, my speculation isn't meant to be taken too seriously. It's just brainstorming the future.

Barto

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
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post #46 of 76
Regarding the PowerMac enclosure, here is something to think about. We are in an economic down turn, and Apple just posted a loss. They will want to invest product design dollars in things that greatly increase sales, like totally-new products. When the IBM 970 comes out in the PowerMacs, these PowerMacs will sell extremely well in the existing enclosure. Making a new enclosure for it will not affect sale much, if at all. So, I'm more or less expecting the new PowerMacs to look the same as they do now, with just a few cosmetic changes.
post #47 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>I wish the Mac community didnt behave like such a bunch of sheep.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It ain't sheep, Mika, it's hope.
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post #48 of 76
What PC^Killa is asking for isn't too much. I think it is reasonable to ask for a moderately priced Mac, that isn't an AIO form.

Split off the monitor and add just a little upgradablity, and I think you have a pretty good starter model. This is the niche that should have been filled by the Cube. The Cube failed for a number of reasons, not the least of which were extremely over priced and non-standard upgrade path (having to buy Mac only parts is limiting enough, having to buy Cube-specific parts was crazy). Building the same machine, but in a form-factor that would allow limited upgrades, and at a reasonable price, could be done without canabalizing high end sales. Apple tried with the cube, but positioned it as a PowerMac competitor, eating some says from their high margin cashcow. Position the new Cube lower-end, allowing standard, but limited upgrades (mebbe 2 PCI, AGP, 2 or 3 RAM slots). Picing could be set at the same as an iMac minus the cost of the monitor.

The comparison to elite cars is a good one, but staying only within that niche makes it difficult to enter new markets. If Apple wants to only stay with 5% of the market, great, stay with current line up. They have sold essentially the same choices for 5 years now (excepting the Cube failure), perhaps it is tie to try something new that might attract new buyers.

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post #49 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Barto:
<strong>This is pure speculation.

----------------

Three PowerPC 970s

1.2 GHz, 1.5GHz and 1.8GHz

Three Northbridges, all with a GigaWire master controller and connection to the Southbridge.

N1:

Dual-970 Support (600/750/900MHz Bus)
Dual-channel DDR (266/333/400MHz)
Gigabit Ethernet MAC
AGP 8X

N2:

Single-970 Support (600/750/900MHz Bus)
Dual-channel DDR (266/333/400MHz)
Gigabit Ethernet MAC
AGP 8X Controller

N3:

Dual-970 Support (600/750/900MHz Bus)
Dual-channel DDR (266/333/400MHz)
Dual Gigabit Ethernet MACs
64-bit PCI Controller
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why produce 3 northbridges with such minor differences? Economically and logistically horrible. The northbridge will require a lot of work, and a fancy process to handle a bus, or busses, with a 450MHz clock and 900MHz data rate. The design will be difficult to get right, and may well be quite expensive to produce, you certainly want to maximise the production volume of the part.
Use a single dual 900MHz bus northbridge with memory controller, and a 16 bit 800MHz (3.2GB/s unidirectional, 6.4GB/s bidirectional) Hypertransport link, or even 8 bit 900MHz (1.8/3.6) to the southbridge which does everything else.
Calculate required bandwidth:
[code]
AGP8x 1067 MB/s
ata133 133 MB/s
ata33 33 MB/s
PCI-64/66 533 MB/s
firewire2 100 MB/s

total 1867 MB/s
</pre><hr></blockquote>

Plenty of bandwidth for that link. The southbridge is a more standard part and changed more easily, as well as being able to put it further away, I suspect the northbridge will have to be very close to the processor(s) to get good performance.

michael
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post #50 of 76
Nothing till late 2003, early 2004.
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post #51 of 76
I think the 17" iMac is already being positioned as the cube replacement. If the new Cube was offered at about 1600 it would compete with the lowe end PowerMac, the midrange iMac and the high end eMac. That would be four products all for about the same price. Already the eMac seems to be the real iMac and the iMac is now really just a Cube with a monitor.
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post #52 of 76
the 970 should start @ 1800 they are giving out 1200 specs for power use only.
post #53 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>

It ain't sheep, Mika, it's hope.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hope?!!
What are you hoping for? A winning lottery ticket?

post #54 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Tulkas:
<strong>

The comparison to elite cars is a good one, but staying only within that niche makes it difficult to enter new markets. If Apple wants to only stay with 5% of the market, great, stay with current line up. They have sold essentially the same choices for 5 years now (excepting the Cube failure), perhaps it is tie to try something new that might attract new buyers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Significantly, though, both Porsche and BMW are now making and selling SUVs. They're breaking out of their niche markets and going more mainstream. If people (Americans, specifically) are going to shell out money for these things, both of these companies have decided they want a piece of the pie. I know a lot of car enthusiasts groaned about how they were "selling out", but there's a lot of people who wouldn't touch a Lincoln Navigator that would buy a BMW X5 in a heartbeat. The "Apple" brand carries a lot of weight in the marketplace - they need to start cashing in on it, IMO.
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post #55 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Tulkas:
<strong>

The comparison to elite cars is a good one, but staying only within that niche makes it difficult to enter new markets. If Apple wants to only stay with 5% of the market, great, stay with current line up.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree that Apple needs to get into more markets to increase market share. Some Mac users say Apple can do well with low market share. They typically cite how well elite autos do with low market share. The problem is software development. The Mac is more than just another make of computer. It is a whole platform that needs its own type of software, different from that used in over 90 percent of all personal computers. To succeed as a platform, the Mac must be in many markets, and have high enough sales to attract and keep developers. So yes, they should definitely begin to move into new areas, but selectively and with good strategy.
post #56 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>

Hope?!!
What are you hoping for?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm just hoping a decent alternative to Windows can survive.
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post #57 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by TJM:
<strong>

Significantly, though, both Porsche and BMW are now making and selling SUVs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Amusingly the BMW approach was to BUY Land Rover. I don't see a competent-yet-reasonably-priced PC company outside of Apple's niche that might be worth buying.

Also, the problem with 'the car analogy' is the software developer business (as mentioned above). The lack of software developers always loomed under Mac OS 9... But I don't think it looms so much anymore. NeXt survived for years with a marketshare of what, 0.00%? Cocoa really is that easy to use for one. Second is the open underpinnings. Third is the fact that the underpinnings are unix-based.

Those three pieces together are pretty darn useful. It is easy to prove to yourself that they _are_ that useful also. There appears to be a LOT of interest from niches that have historically ranked Apple somewhere below maggot-ridden-meat. Even if the speed isn't there in the 'Power' line.

A 5x increase in SpecFP a full year from now should be worth a substantial increase in sales. Ignoring Quads or dual cores or exotic memory topologies. Just a straight dual-chip 970 @ 1.8 GHz should rock. At 50 million transistors the price should be right. Spend an extra little bit on going to interleaved memory and you are right in where the dual-Xeon range will be - and there's no way this will cost as much as a Xeon.
post #58 of 76
I wouldn't want another Cube priced at $1600. That puts it out of the entry level position, just as the high price did before. A replacement for the Cube, price at ~$1000, with similar specs to the entry level iMac sans monitor, and with some limited, standard size upgradability would only eat into the iMac line. But with no monitor and approximately the same price, the margins would probably be a lot higher, so losing a few imac sales would be offset by higher margins and hopefully, higher volume. I know everyone who pushes for a entry level tower says "I know someone who's buy one today", but I really do know people who would. My dad is looking to possibly replace his Sawtooth 450 in the next year, but doesn't want to drop $3000 Canadian. He is also put off by the AIO concept. A striped down tower, that he could have atleast 1 PCI, an extra drive and added memory would be all he would need, and would be enough for me to recommend it to him. Right now, he is considering a CPU upgrade instead, but that doesn't really help Apple. My friend is also wanting a new computer and has shown interest in a Mac, but can't afford a PowerMac and doesn't want an iMac...to limiting in his mind.
[quote]Originally posted by jante99:
<strong>I think the 17" iMac is already being positioned as the cube replacement. If the new Cube was offered at about 1600 it would compete with the lowe end PowerMac, the midrange iMac and the high end eMac. That would be four products all for about the same price. Already the eMac seems to be the real iMac and the iMac is now really just a Cube with a monitor.</strong><hr></blockquote>

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post #59 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Tulkas:
<strong>

. . . A striped down tower, that he could have at least 1 PCI, an extra drive and added memory would be all he would need . . .

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I do believe those would sell. Much smaller case, let's say just two PCI slots and room for one extra drive. Yes. Put in an IBM 970 and it could be Apple's top selling model.
post #60 of 76
Anyone ever consider that Rambus may be used in the PowerMacs that would use the 970 chips? It would make perfect sense seeing as the bandwidth would be enough to sustain the giant bandwidth at their disposal. But one thing in my mind precludes this: Rambus is power hungry in comparison to DDR. Therefore a laptop implementation would be difficult at best and the cost of designing a separate controller chip may force the 970 to be connected to DDR or a dual channel DDR set up. Unless something has changed with Rambus and it is much more conservative with power.
post #61 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by snoopy:
<strong>I do believe those would sell. Much smaller case, let's say just two PCI slots and room for one extra drive. Yes. Put in an IBM 970 and it could be Apple's top selling model.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think that would sell too - but _two_ slots & a drive bay -&gt; cannibalized "Power" line.

The ranking of 'how many cards do I use':
0 &gt;&gt; 1 &gt;&gt; 2 &gt;&gt; 3 &gt;&gt; 4 &gt;&gt; expansion chassis..

There's a LOT of towers out there with just one or two cards. If we're making a box to 1) sell well and 2) sell to people that would otherwise not buy a Mac.

The second internal drive bay is also one of the main 'features' of the towers. And it is one that even the iMac folks can get around with a FW enclosure -&gt; skip it for the pizzabox so they lust after something better
post #62 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Nevyn:
<strong>

I think that would sell too - but _two_ slots & a drive bay -&gt; cannibalized "Power" line.

The ranking of 'how many cards do I use':
0 &gt;&gt; 1 &gt;&gt; 2 &gt;&gt; 3 &gt;&gt; 4 &gt;&gt; expansion chassis..

There's a LOT of towers out there with just one or two cards. If we're making a box to 1) sell well and 2) sell to people that would otherwise not buy a Mac.

The second internal drive bay is also one of the main 'features' of the towers. And it is one that even the iMac folks can get around with a FW enclosure -&gt; skip it for the pizzabox so they lust after something better </strong><hr></blockquote>

I think it would be possible to distinguish between the two line and ensure that the new Cube would only eat at the low end (iMac) sales (with higher margins) and not eat at the PMacs. The PowerMacs would have a faster bus, 4 memory slots instead of 2 and more PCI and drive slots. anyone looking for an entry level machine, but not wanting an iMac and unable to afford a PowerMac would be attracted to this concept I think.

Another solution would be, when the 970 is available, would be to offer a 970 line of PowerMacs at slightly higher prices than current PowerMacs and offer G4 Mac towers at slightly less that current PowerMacs. This might also allow Apple to have a true Professional line up (970) and a prosumer lineup (G4).

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Tulkas ]</p>

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post #63 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Tulkas:
<strong>

I think it would be possible to distinguish between the two line and ensure that the new Cube would only eat at the low end (iMac) sales (with higher margins) and not eat at the PMacs. . .

</strong><hr></blockquote>

How about this? Top PowerMacs with dual 970s. The bottom PowerMac with a single 970, for those who do not need the dual performance but want the features of the PowerMac. The tiny tower or cube like model would have a single 970. With a 970 it could sell at a little premium, so if it did take sales from the iMac, the bottom line would look good nonetheless. It would be a really good Mac for games too, would it not?
post #64 of 76
I like it.

But I want room for 2 Hard Drives and 1 optical drive as well. Also, one PCI slot, one 4xAGP slot, and a discount coupon for a 17 widescreen LCD monitor. So, iMac^3 + said 17 LCD monitor + coupon = $1,499 USD.


mika.
post #65 of 76
Dream on....
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post #66 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Bigc:
<strong>Dream on....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why? By the time this thing comes out, $1,500 is going to seem like a fortune for what youre actually getting..


mika.
post #67 of 76
Dream on....
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #68 of 76
I think that is reasonable, but I don't see a coupon offered for the monitor. From Apple's perspective, if you want a monitor, either pony up for one of theirs or you own, or buy an iMac with the monitor included. To me, the entire reason for having an alternative to the iMac for similar pricing minus the monitor, was to give the consumer options to the AIO integrate-everything concept. In order to maximize margins, you want their 17"WD, buy one or buy an iMac.
[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>I like it.

But I want room for 2 Hard Drives and 1 optical drive as well. Also, one PCI slot, one 4xAGP slot, and a discount coupon for a 17 widescreen LCD monitor. So, iMac^3 + said 17 LCD monitor + coupon = $1,499 USD.


mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>

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post #69 of 76
Id never get an iMac because, for one thing, the Graphics card cannot be upgraded. With regards to upgrading the sound system, or the Optical Drive, or the Hard Drive, the premium on those is so great its hardly worth it. In this day and age, most people are buying their 2nd or 3rd computer; they are not newbies that Apple can pull the wool over. People are savvy to these things, and this reflects in the poor sales figures for Apple.


mika.
post #70 of 76
What have I ever had in my G4? I only recall ever using a SCSI card for a couple months. But when OS X didn't support it when it came out, I took it out. Since then I have upgraded my CPU card and my graphics card and of course my memory. I would say about 75% of Mac tower users are like me. They only really need one PCI and one AGP and plenty of RAM slots. But Apple needs to design for the optimum user: no more than 4 PCI slots covers 99% of the people who need a Mac Tower. The others are niche.
post #71 of 76
Not long ago everyone was whining for 4 pci and 4 HD, Now people want one pci and one HD???

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Bigc ]</p>
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post #72 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Bigc:
<strong>Not long ago everyone was whining for 4 pci and 4 HD, Now people want one pci and one HD???

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Bigc ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


This would be for people who want essentially what the iMac offers but don't want: AIO, un-upgradable GPU, fix monitor, no extra drive space etc, and don't need what the PowerMacs offer in terms of: even more drives, more PCI, fastest bus or latest and gratest cpu. These people need the Cube, but at a reasonable price (like low iMac range), with standard size upgrades.

Those who wanted even more expandability are at the other end of the market. When Apple killed the clones, it was because they weren't growing the market, especially at the low end. The were just canabilizing the mid to high end markets. Apple managed to get there partly on the own, with the iMac, now I think is the time to get where they wanted the clones to get them...the entry level user, who doesn't want built-in-unupgradble-everthing the AIO offers, and don't need everything the PowerMac offers. You want to spread this Mac platform out of it's existing niche? You have to start offering products the break out of your traditional niches.

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post #73 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Tulkas:
<strong>This would be for people who want essentially what the iMac offers but don't want: AIO, un-upgradable GPU, fix monitor, no extra drive space etc, and don't need what the PowerMacs offer in terms of: even more drives, more PCI, fastest bus or latest and gratest cpu. These people need the Cube, but at a reasonable price (like low iMac range), with standard size upgrades.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So:
Return of the Pizzabox. They did sell very well.
ONE slot. Converter bridge allows it to be AGB or PCI.
One HD spot.
One CPU.
One optical drive - up to and including the superdrive.
Std: 2 FW external, 4 USB external, built-in cheese-graphics, airport std, 2 GB RAM max.

Yes, I'd limit it to _one_ HD. There's a firewire port if you need more, it isn't that much of a hassle, and if you have enough envy -&gt; Power line.
The firewire enclosures are a little steep - but you can swap the innards out if you like. And the FW drives aren't insanely expensive, just steep.

I'd think Apple could sell one of those starting at $800. Maybe less. I mean, it's an eMac without the monitor - but instead you get to upgrade bits a little bit. $200 gets you a second drive (external), $200 gets you a rocking GPU, $200 -&gt; max ram, $200 for superdrive-upgrade...

I would say this competes head-to-head with the iMac, and does nothing for-or-against an all Dual-CPU Power line. I think there's room for it though. I'd make it thin-VCR sized for some reason Hmm. Add IR port on the front. Or Bluetooth.
post #74 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Nevyn:
<strong>

So:
Return of the Pizzabox. They did sell very well.
ONE slot. Converter bridge allows it to be AGB or PCI.
One HD spot.
One CPU.
One optical drive - up to and including the superdrive.
Std: 2 FW external, 4 USB external, built-in cheese-graphics, airport std, 2 GB RAM max.

Yes, I'd limit it to _one_ HD. There's a firewire port if you need more, it isn't that much of a hassle, and if you have enough envy -&gt; Power line.
The firewire enclosures are a little steep - but you can swap the innards out if you like. And the FW drives aren't insanely expensive, just steep.

I'd think Apple could sell one of those starting at $800. Maybe less. I mean, it's an eMac without the monitor - but instead you get to upgrade bits a little bit. $200 gets you a second drive (external), $200 gets you a rocking GPU, $200 -&gt; max ram, $200 for superdrive-upgrade...

I would say this competes head-to-head with the iMac, and does nothing for-or-against an all Dual-CPU Power line. I think there's room for it though. I'd make it thin-VCR sized for some reason Hmm. Add IR port on the front. Or Bluetooth.</strong><hr></blockquote>


<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

This is exactly the kind of thinking that has sent Apple to the dumpster.

Purposely crippling functionality when it doesnt cost any more to have it there. Just because the Power line sux shit, we cant have anything that might compete with it in terms of decent modularity. Put a decent CPU or two or four in there, and you wont have to worry about said completion.


mika.
post #75 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by snoopy:
<strong>Regarding the PowerMac enclosure, here is something to think about. We are in an economic down turn, and Apple just posted a loss. They will want to invest product design dollars in things that greatly increase sales, like totally-new products. When the IBM 970 comes out in the PowerMacs, these PowerMacs will sell extremely well in the existing enclosure. Making a new enclosure for it will not affect sale much, if at all. So, I'm more or less expecting the new PowerMacs to look the same as they do now, with just a few cosmetic changes.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. The el capitan is dead, played, tired. Also, it was designed for the Moto chip in Jan not the 970. The 970 is totally new tech, new aim, new direction, new image of real speed. Apple needs a new enclosure to make a new statement for the new line of towers to bring in new sales. There's a few reasons why tower sales suck. If you are going to completely change the inside, then completely change the outside as well.
All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
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All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
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post #76 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>
This is exactly the kind of thinking that has sent Apple to the dumpster.

Purposely crippling functionality when it doesnt cost any more to have it there. Just because the Power line sux shit, we cant have anything that might compete with it in terms of decent modularity. </strong><hr></blockquote>

2 firewire ports _are_ decent modularity. I agree in part: Apple could make a 2 HD-spot, 2 Optical drive, 2 slot computer for a lot less than the current PowerMacs. Let's call it the PizzaMac.

But the market for the current PowerMacs is not 100% number crunchers/top end elite 'Pro' users. If half of the Power buyers buy Pizza boxes, 1/3 of the iMac buyers switch over to Pizza boxes, and a chunk of gamers/upgrade/hot rod diehards buy one -&gt; great. PizzaMac a smash success. And I think it _would be_.

But you'd draw enough people out of buying the PowerMac line that Apple would scuttle it.

'Hooray' I hear you saying. That's fine - but the 'Pro' buyers that are the other half of the PowerMac buyers would be left with precisely zero Macs that are anywhere near sufficiently capable. Congrats, we've killed, staked, and buried a niche that Apple is (and has always been) quite comfortable in. We swapped it for a niche of extremely price-conscious, fickle, fad-driven folk. Gross margins are down 15% on the year, now what? (Marketshare up 1 whole % = woot!)

It is intentional crippling when there's jumpers on the motherboard that limit the FSB frequency or something. Not offering a Dual-CPU config is NOT "Purposely crippling functionality when it doesnt cost any more to have it there." Nor is fewer slots, fewer HDs, whatever. One extra slot: significant increase in powersupply, more motherboard traces, more motherboard design time, more actual slots, more real estate to design around inside case... And Dual CPUs, um, no.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, I'm just saying it won't be FREE.

Personally, with a firewire CD burner, FW external disk, and looking into a tape drive (for a laptop mind)-&gt; I don't see any reason for anyone's obsession with the 'two internal HDs'. 90+% of the expandability complaints always seem to focus on how the iMac graphics cards suck so bad.

Also, I wouldn't say the Power line is _that_ bad. The Dual 867 for 1600 rocks.
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