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Lucida, Wolf, Presley, David's Stone, etc.

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Well, now that Mr. alanmcjones' credibility seems to be somewhat vindicated by the news of "Elvis," the file journaling system, being rolled into Jaguar, it might lend some credence to the other codename/rumors he mentioned.

HOWEVER, I can not seem to search old posts, because AI's ubb seems to be on the fritz, otherwise I would have resurrected one of those threads (or at least read it through again).

To recap, quickly, (please correct me if I do not remember right)

Glove Pretty obviously the five-person license for X.

Lucida some sort of imaging device. He said "it was a done deal," and it was "not a matter of if, but when." Well, the "when" hopefully would be in time for Christmas, and we have not seen it yet. (I recall musing that it was perhaps a communication device, at one point.)

Wolf Some sort of distributed computing idea. I have forgotten this exactly. (could this have been xraid?)

PRESLEY This seems rather obviously to be "Elvis" the newly rumored journaling system to be built into OSX

David's Stone I will bet dollars to doughnuts that this is the PPC 970. It looks like this little "big one" truly could be a giant killer. :cool:

Iceland ???????????

Have I forgotten any?

Now, other rumors of late have been of a Mac web browser, iphone, xraid, etc. I am wondering if any of these fit into what he had mentioned.

I was wondering about
1) Whether he is still cruising these boards, and would like to elaborate a little on these things, again.
2) How I can access the older posts (Mods?)
3) Others' recollections of these discussions to help reconstruct them in lieu of a searchable archive of posts.

Hope springs eternal,

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post #2 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Mandricard:
Wolf Some sort of distributed computing idea. I have forgotten this exactly. (could this have been xraid?)

PRESLEY This seems rather obviously to be "Elvis" the newly rumored journaling system to be built into OSX
<hr></blockquote>

Well... not so fast there.

First, a clarification: Wolf was supposed to be clustering software, so it's not XRaid.

Secondly, in a reply to one of my posts, it was said that Presley was a rockin' mouse.

Thirdly, you're right: what's up with the search function?
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post #3 of 31
Mandricard,

Last post I could find (below) I also found this recap from Mandricard (below below)

Hey that last one was from you! The mind it's the second thing to go...

Dave

=========================================
posted 08-28-2002 05:27 PM
Project "Iceland" within 6 months.

I know its been sometime since I've posted, but today, is day to update the timeline again. I had to clear somethings up with friends, associates and heal some feelings.

I only deliver what I know and what I feel is appropiate for the boards to have. With that said, I apologize to anybody and everybody but this is how the wild things are. So be it.

Project "Iceland" is the final stage for the iPod and its timeline. It will finally blossom into the next cellphone from Apple. Able to handle all North America, Japan and Europe major carriers. The iPod is the back down into this market.

Apple research shows, people only use PDAs for 2 major things: Contacts and Scheduling. Jobs has been on the record to say they have thought hard of the PDA and they feel it will merge with cellphones. He is correct. The current iPod handles both and the new "Iceland" iPod will become Apple's new trojan horse into for all. It will also be Bluetooth aware.

I will be back with more details in a few days. Lucida is just a matter of time. Real soon.

-Allen
=========================================

=========================================
Originally posted by Mandricard:

These are the projects Mr. McJones has mentioned:

Glove 5-person to unlimited-person license (I think we are seing the beginning of this). It is clear that Apple is going after the M$ business & revenue model.

Lucida Digital camera/camcorder. Consumer oriented. Underwater capabilities thrown in but not the major feature. He says that one is on the way soon--it was expected in July.

Wolf Mac clustering package. I have not heard a peep, though many of the pieces are in place. (Wolves run in packs, but are good lone hunters as well.)

Presley New mouse with no buttons, but two different click functions. No sign of it yet.

David's Stone Mentioned in conjunction with a lot of projects, some over-arching strategy of sorts. This one is the one I am interested in.

Iceland Convergence device. See above.

My thought is that we should be patient. Whether or not Mr. McJones is legitimate (my hunch so far is that he is) he is at very least introducing interesting ideas to the boards.

[refrain] If you are skeptical, rather than ad hominem remarks or posts that say "utter crap," that you perhaps a reasoned argument against the possibilities presented might be more interesting to all involved. [/refrain]

Anyway, I am curious about what Mr. McJones has to say. Especially about David's Stone.

For someone who knows more about this than I: How powerful is the iPod processor? How much more powerful would it have to be to deal with any other associated tasks associated with this hypothetical "Iceland?"

Hope Springs Eternal,

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post #4 of 31
Here is the full rundown... <a href="http://www.alltheweb.com" target="_blank">www.alltheweb.com</a> is pretty damn good...

================================================== ========
posted 05-23-2002 10:46 PM

I can be tracked, so I won't stay after this posting.

Glove is a code name given to a Apple (new) strategy that started the day after Microsoft announced their software as a service model. Glove means "one size fits all". This strategy is designed for the heart of MS's strategy. I know the general specs. After July, only "1" OSX license is required to install OSX on any Mac. Every corporation, printshop, creative house, school, college or anybody is ONLY required to purchase "1" license of OSX. For example, today, a university with 500 Macs and 500 PCs would have to purchase 500 new OSX licenses and 500 XP licenses if they decided to upgrade. When Glove kicks in, that same university would only have to purchase "1" license to install OSX on all their Macs. The license belongs to the entity and not longer for each piece of hardware. As long as you own the license, you can install it on all the machines you want, if you own the hardware of course. Apple believes this changes everything and they think this a solid reason to purchase Apple hardware. It goes completely against MS strategy and gives their customers a way out.

Lucida has been mentioned here before but not by name. Its a combination of a number of threads. It is a digital camera/camcorder. It is designed for the consumer market and it was "also" designed to float in water and can be submerged to quite some depth. Recreation diving is huge and these underwater features was a small engineering task to a grab this large explosive market (digital camera/camcorders). It will blow you away.

I'll be back soon.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 05-24-2002 12:56 AM

Okay, I'm nervous and this will be my last reply to this board until I figure a better way of doing this. The hole IP thing has me spooked. No, its not my real name.

I'll try and put a little more spec on Glove. Apple has the one thing no other "personal computer" maker has: Complete ownership. As for glove, you don't have to purchase the license, you can also purchase a new Mac or if you have OSX, you're set. Install away. You inherit the glove license. Apple makes it money on hardware sales and they have timed this strategy to the fullest. Earlier this week it became know that Microsoft was having problems convincing companies to follow their subscription model, I think a 1/3 of their customers have signed up.

Apple will implement glove in two ways, buy a mac or buy a copy of OSX. You can then install as many copies of OSX as you like, as long as you OWN the hardware. (you can only install OSX on Macs right?, right) More hardware sales, Apple wins. I think I'm done with this topic.

Lucida has been built. I don't know the specs, only that its way ahead of anything out there. The whole submerging thing has been an added surprise to the project. They wanted it to be early iBook like, through it in your backpack. Most digital cameras today are very fragile. Apple will try and position the Lucida camera like a Luxury Sport Utility Vehicle. I was told Lucida means something in photograpy, but I don't know what. Powerful, tough, goes anywhere camera. It is firewire based, I do know that.

I might be back.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 05-25-2002 11:47 AM

Okay, there is no way anybody could track me. I had reservations at first and my initial postings was very quick and short. I apologize if I offered my opinions in the first two postings but I was very excited and nervous. I will only give you what I know and maybe later offer my opinions but most likely this will be my last post.

Glove:
- "Glove" licensing is a code name given to Apple's new licensing of OSX.
- It is a single site license that covers ALL Macs the entity owns.
- To qualify for a glove license you will either purchase a new Mac with OSX or buy a new copy OSX.
- The Glove license belongs to the entity and not the hardware.
- Some have called the license "David's Stone".

Lucida:
- "Lucida" is code name given to digital camera/camcorder.
- "Lucida" means something in photography (which somebody illustrated what it means)
- It HAD to be both a camera and camcorder.
- It is completely self inclosed and will accent in water.
- No sand or elements can penetrate its interior.
- It is FULLY functional submerged in water in limited depths.
- Lucida is VERY rugid and durable.
- It is firewire based.
- It looks nothing like a camera or camcorder on the market today.
- Its design is "amazing".
- The case design is built around the internal lense(s).
- Lucida has a color LCD display in the rear.
- Designed for right and left hand.
- The controls are VERY easy to work.
- It will ship with some instructions.
- Lucida solves dozens of problems with camera/camcorders.
- Is designed for the consumer market.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 05-27-2002 07:59 PM

It's done.

It flipping bizarre and the design is down right brilliant. The more I look at it, the more simple it is. It screams of Apple. I have just obtained an artist's illustration (JPG) of the "Lucida" digital camera/camcorder project. It looks like a still-life illustration. I've been informed the artist has worked closely with other projects.

Yes, I will give the picture to a single person at my selection and yes, it does have a microphone and 4 ports; firewire, audio-in, audio-out, video/audio out. They are waterproof and you'll understand why once you see the illustrations. Its sooo simple and elegeantly done.

I will not email it to anyone nor will I host the JPG anywhere. I will only upload the JPG to a single machine and it will be your decision to post it the boards or not. I suggest this: Somebody with at least 1000+ postings (your probably not anybody but an enthusaist) enable anonymous FTP to your computer at home. You must have a dynamic account (dial-up, DSL, cable) and no static IPs. Get an account with a dynamic dns service like dyndns.org. Post your host address (mycomputer.dnydns.org) in this thread. Keep your computer on in the evenings (9pm and later Eastern or whatever) for the next 2-3 weeks and I'll upload it. Make sure your computer tickles their dns servers to update your ip address.

Don't think you could track me, I'll be going through to many computers and the doors will be closed when the upload is complete. You will only know my last IP address and for what its worth, this is my last post.

Oh, one more thing, "Glove" licensing might happen sooner than the July show because of this thread. First a trial ballon with the education market (to see what happens with a Microsoft reaction), then most likely complete glove licensing for EVERYONE when "Jagwire" ships.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 06-22-2002 02:51 PM

MY OPINION IS ALSO WITHIN THIS THREAD.

Wolf has been a project for over 3 years and will be shipped later this year. The summer of 99, Apple acquired elite kernel and assembler programmers from some friends in Mountain View. This team is less than 6 and has been working on the Wolf project and my understanding is they are flipping brilliant.

Wolf is Apple Advanced Clustering Network Foundation. I dont know all the details but I felt it was time to share it for what its worth. Heres what I know and what Ive been able to piece together.

- Wolf is a code name for Apple Advanced Clustering Network Foundation
- Once you install Wolf (upgrade, patch, software?), you are able to use parallel processing at the kernel level
- Processing runs over TCP/IP
- ALL applications will have access to Wolf
- The network is similar to Peer to Peer
- You can process jobs on any Wolf enabled Macintosh
- You can share your computer resources to the network
- It utilizes ZeroConf as a service
- A demo of a 8 Mac Wolf cluster ripped an entire 120 minute movie in under 15 seconds.
- This is extremely advanced technology
- Team was acquired from elite people from Mountain View, CA
- Team is less than 6 and all have PHDs and are considered to have written the book on clustering.
- You can start a Wolf job on the east coast, turn off your book, fly to the west coast, get on the net and your job is completed and delivered.
- (tough to explain because I dont know what this means) Data is sent back and forth through vectorization mode. Binary data is converted in real-time to vector data, converted to ascii, parsed-mapping and then sent back. ( I have no idea)
- Metro cities will see higher responses than rural areas based upon number of Macs in regions.
- Ive been told this has also been called Davids Stone like Glove
- You can close off any local Wolf cluster similar to an Airport network.
- Its yet another reason to switch to a Mac.
- I have more but info, but this is a start for now.

Presley is the code name given to the new optical NO BUTTON TWO CLICK mouse.

- More later

And as for the other thread, like I said, its not going to be my decision to post the Lucida picture to the boards. Thats going to be left up to the individual. I also have tons more information about her too. Guess what? Theres more than just one Lucida camera. One has built in 802.11g which also means a new Airport is not that far away.

Ill be back in a few weeks. Traveling aboard.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 06-27-2002 10:56 AM

I´ll try and check back here in a few days if I can. Currently in Europe at an internet cafe. This thread has become big and I currently don´t have the time to read all posters now. A meeting soon. But I will read them all and reply.

I will give you some history on what I know to all. The information that has been provided to me comes from the ¨ones¨ in the know. I do believe some of the info has been beefed up, but I´ve tried to post only what I know. I´ve filtered together information to give you a picture of the technology. Whether these rumors are true or not, I believe they are 100% REAL, based on the ´ones´ that provided it to me.

The most interesting codename that has been tossed around is ´David´s Stone´ This one is big, some think its the big one. I think that´s why it´s been coined with other projects. Its very frustrating for me not to have all the information to put together but I´m doing the best I can.

There a many many many many projects going on at Apple. Trust me on this, there is a road map for the future and its being executed when the technology is right to implement. Timing is the key factor for products. To Fran, there is a PDA like device coming. I have some details but not enough where I feel its good to post yet.

Could this information be disinformation? I thought at times it could be. Honestly, after the Nexus show when Glove didn´t come out, I thought maybe I was Apple´s vehicle to throw wrinkles out on the boards. But I don´t think this is the case.

Presley has NO Buttons. I just been informed its an optional upgrade mouse (pro market)

Off to a meeting. And by the way, my profession is the business of information.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 07-11-2002 04:59 PM

You have found one of Lucida's design chain players. That's really all I can say.

Recap for July or when I get fired:

Lucida
-all enclosed digital still/video camera/camcorder
-details in other posts

Other Lucidas
-one has 802.11g

Glove
-one size fits all Mac OS X license for an entire entity
-details in other posts

Wolf
-very smart tcp/ip based clustering package
-details in other posts

Presley
-two click mouse with no buttons.
-details in other posts

(no code name known)
-a new type of PDA

David's Stone
-has been associated with many projects
-known to be the big one.

If I was a betting man, which of course I am, Glove will appear along with Jagwire launch. Lucida will be introduced for this year's holiday season. Wolf for a Xserve package this year. Presley, like yesterday. The PDA and David's Stone, don't know.

I might be back before NY show. I'm also very surprised nobody has posted the picture yet.

-Allen
================================================== ========
posted 08-28-2002 05:27 PM

Project "Iceland" within 6 months.

I know its been sometime since I've posted, but today, is day to update the timeline again. I had to clear somethings up with friends, associates and heal some feelings.

I only deliver what I know and what I feel is appropiate for the boards to have. With that said, I apologize to anybody and everybody but this is how the wild things are. So be it.

Project "Iceland" is the final stage for the iPod and its timeline. It will finally blossom into the next cellphone from Apple. Able to handle all North America, Japan and Europe major carriers. The iPod is the back down into this market.

Apple research shows, people only use PDAs for 2 major things: Contacts and Scheduling. Jobs has been on the record to say they have thought hard of the PDA and they feel it will merge with cellphones. He is correct. The current iPod handles both and the new "Iceland" iPod will become Apple's new trojan horse into for all. It will also be Bluetooth aware.

I will be back with more details in a few days. Lucida is just a matter of time. Real soon.

-Allen
================================================== ========


Dave
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post #5 of 31
It's worth mentioning Apple hasn't exactly been secretive about their plans to develop a clustering package that operates at the kernel level. They've basically confirmed it's coming just not the when.

All the rest I'd remain rather skeptical over. I would be really surprised if the iPod becomes a mobile phone.
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post #6 of 31
Since Wolf is supposed to be a TCP/IP based clustering protocol, is it possible that it is built on the ZeroConf protocol? Rendezvous is an ip based device discovery and identification protocol, could it be used as the basis for network based clustering?

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post #7 of 31
You mean like "Hmmm, my CPU(s) are maxed out, and since these apps are all nicely threaded, I wonder if there's anyone out there with an underused CPU... anyone? Bueller? Heya! Yeah, could you just do task A for me? Thanks, yeah, just get back to me when you can..."

Well, anything's possible...
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post #8 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
<strong>You mean like "Hmmm, my CPU(s) are maxed out, and since these apps are all nicely threaded, I wonder if there's anyone out there with an underused CPU... anyone? Bueller? Heya! Yeah, could you just do task A for me? Thanks, yeah, just get back to me when you can..."

Well, anything's possible... </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeas, except that the request and authorization would happen automatically. Perhaps an option in the System Preferences, under Sharing, that would allow you to check a box to allow your Mac to be used as a co-processor node on the local network. In a similar way you currently can allow printer and file sharing. Check the box and when another local mac could use some extra cycles, it automatically send a few threads your way if your processor isn't too busy. Just an idea of what Wolf could be I guess.

Edit: Actually, looks like someone is already doing Mac clustering with Rendezvous:<a href="http://www.daugerresearch.com/pr/poochv1.3.html" target="_blank">Pooch </a>

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: Tulkas ]</p>

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post #9 of 31
Er... that was supposed to be your Mac doing the talking (automatic), not you.

Fully automatic is precisely what I was trying to imply.

NeXT had something like this, oh... 12 years ago? It was limited to RenderMan tasks though, IIRC.
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post #10 of 31
post #11 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
It's worth mentioning Apple hasn't exactly been secretive about their plans to develop a clustering package that operates at the kernel level. They've basically confirmed it's coming just not the when.

All the rest I'd remain rather skeptical over. I would be really surprised if the iPod becomes a mobile phone.
<hr></blockquote>

You mean like this <a href="http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/09/20020925123848.shtml" target="_blank">tidbit from Mac Rumors?</a>

[quote]
Think Secret posted a small update hinting at Clustering in OS X Server.

An anonymous reader provides MacRumors with a first hand account:

During my visit to the Apple Expo in Paris I attended the conference "Xserve and Mac OS X Server" Tuesday from 3.30pm - 5.00pm:

During the Q&A session an interesting item came up. One person from the audience asked about the XServe ability to cluster. The speakers responded by pointing out there were some third party applications availible that would do clustering at the application level. Then the same person from the audience restated his question, pointing out that he meant clustering at the kernel level. This time to of the three speakers responded slightly suspiciously. The first one direcly responded by saying that Apple doesn't answer questions regarding future products, adding after a slight hesitation "...if there is any..." (laughter from the public).

But the second speaker probably said more than Apple would have wanted him to say. Being very careful in choosing his words he made clear that Apple knew that users wanted this technology and that Mac OS X being UNIX would (techically) be able to deliver it. Then he stated the Apple is very serious about Mac OS X server and try to make it the best Server OS available. But also that XServe is their first serious server effort and that Mac OS X Server is only at its third version. So, he said, "let's first make sure OS X Server and our hardware is fully matured and we will see what we can do with it to make it even better,... but we know users want this and we want to make OS X the best. I would suggest to keep an eye on us (Apple)"

From the words they choose and the manner of talking it was very clear that Apple is working on this technology. Even joking when his microphone temporarly did not function "Is Steve in the audience??"
<hr></blockquote>
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post #12 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights:
<strong>You mean like <a href="http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/09/20020925123848.shtml" target="_blank">this tidbit from Mac Rumors?</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

It was also mentioned at a Unix developer conference a bit back. Apple is very intent on capturing a good portion of the current lower end unix market, particularly that of the science/engineering workstations.

Apple has been surprisingly honest and open when it has come to that area of the market.

[ 10-18-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
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post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
I stand corrected on Presley. Unless, of course, there are 2 projects being worked on, an Elvis, and a Presley. It seems odd the mcJones would have gotten so close to the mark with a code-name, but have been off with what it referred to. Something seems a little odd. Either he was fed mis/disinformation, or there is something else going on.

Thank you for digging up those posts. That was quite a bit of work, I imagine.

Hope Springs Eternal,

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post #14 of 31
remember, the best lie is told between two truths
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post #15 of 31
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by ZO:
remember, the best lie is told between two truths<hr></blockquote>

:confused: :confused: :confused:
What do you mean by this?

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post #16 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by ZO:
<strong>remember, the best lie is told between two truths</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not only deep, but accurate: a 'standard' way of spreading disinformation is to bury a faintly credible lie in between two truths which cost you nothing to reveal. The lie then becomes truth by association.

Instances of this crop up all the way through WWII both on the Allied and Axis sides.
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post #17 of 31
Thread Starter 
Are you implying the mcJones was spreading disinformation? I still have a hunch that he was not. Though it would be nice were he to show up again and give us an "update" as to what happened with these "projects."

HOPE springs eternal,

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post #18 of 31
whether willingly or not, when one gives out THAT much info, I automatically am suspicious. Especially if it's 3 or more pieces of info. As I said, the "truth, lie, truth" combination is one of the best one can use. Its just instinct.

So, I would love something like Lucida to appear.. I'm totally in the market for a new digital camera and have been itching to buy a video camera as well. Im planning to go on a sailing trip next summer in the Meditteranean, so, if it was waterproof, it couldnt be a better match!
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post #19 of 31
Someone that knows more on the subject will have to address this but the problem I always saw with Apple designing a camera for underwater use was the optics.

All the optical parameters are completely different underwater than they are in air and he doesn't mention the use of different lenses. I suppose you could convert it electronically but how well that would turn out I have no idea.

Then there are the pressures. If you have actually seen underwater housings for cameras you will know they are rather bulky and set you back around $3000 - $4000 for a decent one.

It's possible it was designed to be durable and pressure tests were done in a water tank. That isn't uncommon but underwater cameras are a little too specialised for me to believe Apple is making one.

I have always wondered why there weren't camera/camcorders around though.

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
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post #20 of 31
I would love a good digital still/video camera combo that is indestructable. I want to be able to throw it in my bag and take it with me everywhere, then when something that is worth taping shows up, just pull it out and start rolling. This would also require it being small. I like Sony's <a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9682x9129x9012&catid=&itemid=50337" target="_blank">DCR-PC101</a> size-wise, but it doesn't have the duribility that I'm looking for.

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: off/lang ]</p>
post #21 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>
I have always wondered why there weren't camera/camcorders around though.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

There area couple around. However, the two functions are so different it is still difficlt to get one chip to do the job nicely. The one I saw in Japan only gets about 1Mpixels in the still image. The cam corder needs really fast operation. The digicam needs high resolution and better picture quality.

There is the possibility that the Fovean chip can do this. Time will tell.

By the way, Sigma is supposed to release the first Fovean based chip this month. Sample pictures and news available at dpreview.com.
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post #22 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>
Then there are the pressures. If you have actually seen underwater housings for cameras you will know they are rather bulky and set you back around $3000 - $4000 for a decent one.

It's possible it was designed to be durable and pressure tests were done in a water tank. That isn't uncommon but underwater cameras are a little too specialised for me to believe Apple is making one.
[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

That reminds me of when I was a salesmen in an electronics department while I was in University. A guy came in looking for a waterproof case for his camcorder. I went into how expensive they probably were, but that I hadn't ever seen one. I also got into the fact that if he was planning to use it in the ocean, then I thought that perhaps looking for one that was specifically made for that would make sense, as the salt water might corrode some seals. No, he says, salt water seals aren't important..he just wants to use it alone in the shower. I had no idea what to say to that and our conversation sort of ended there.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #23 of 31
LOL! Not sure if that's a true story or not, but that's just about the funniest post I've seen here in a LOOoNG time.
post #24 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by tonton:
<strong>LOL! Not sure if that's a true story or not, but that's just about the funniest post I've seen here in a LOOoNG time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unfortunately, it is very true.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #25 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>Someone that knows more on the subject will have to address this but the problem I always saw with Apple designing a camera for underwater use was the optics.

All the optical parameters are completely different underwater than they are in air and he doesn't mention the use of different lenses. I suppose you could convert it electronically but how well that would turn out I have no idea.

Then there are the pressures. If you have actually seen underwater housings for cameras you will know they are rather bulky and set you back around $3000 - $4000 for a decent one.

It's possible it was designed to be durable and pressure tests were done in a water tank. That isn't uncommon but underwater cameras are a little too specialised for me to believe Apple is making one.

I have always wondered why there weren't camera/camcorders around though.

[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you're thinking too 'high end'. If Apple produce a waterproof camera it is likely only to be useful for shallow swimming, splashproof etc. You can buy numerous $5 disposable cameras that will do that.

The difference being of course that you break open the unit to remove the film from a disposable.

I just can't see a waterproof ubercamera with DV and still capabilities from Apple. Think of it this way, even if you subscribe to the opinion that Apple can make a waterproof camera work at the right cost you have to consider the disadvantages of doing so. It limits your design possibilities tremendously, take an innovative idea like the iPod thumbwheel, you rule that sort of thing out completely. And for what? so that 1% of users can film themselves getting soapy in the shower!?

It's not good design sense.

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: fridgemagnet ]</p>
post #26 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by fridgemagnet:
<strong>

I just can't see a waterproof ubercamera with DV and still capabilities from Apple. Think of it this way, even if you subscribe to the opinion that Apple can make a waterproof camera work at the right cost you have to consider the disadvantages of doing so. It limits your design possibilities tremendously, take an innovative idea like the iPod thumbwheel, you rule that sort of thing out completely. And for what? so that 1% of users can film themselves getting soapy in the shower!?

It's not good design sense.

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: fridgemagnet ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


Unless there are no wheels or buttons. There are plenty of examples of touch technology that can be waterproof at say 5 to 10 feet. Think of on/off button of the Cube, the PowerBook trackpad, the 20GB iPod wheel (there is no wheel, just a surface), or even a thin touchscreen glass that covers display LCD, or even perhaps a small touch display like the Color Palm.

If this camera is all enclosed into a single unit, then its possible. Its not all science fiction. The iPod, in a sense, is water-resistant. Smooth stainless steel, with flat clear plastic, with covers for your Firewire port, and no noticable entry point for water. Maybe its like the iPod. But mostly water-resistant...

Just thinking outloud

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: JPF ]</p>
post #27 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>


Unless there are no wheels or buttons. There are plenty of examples of touch technology that can be waterproof at say 5 to 10 feet. Think of on/off button of the Cube, the PowerBook trackpad, the 20GB iPod wheel (there is no wheel, just a surface), or even a thin touchscreen glass that covers display LCD, or even perhaps a small touch display like the Color Palm.

If this camera is all enclosed into a single unit, then its possible. Its not all science fiction. The iPod, in a sense, is water-resistant. Smooth stainless steel, with flat clear plastic, with covers for your Firewire port, and no noticable entry point for water. Maybe its like the iPod. But mostly water-resistant...

Just thinking outloud

[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: JPF ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yes interesting you should say that because I had thought about that myself and I'm not sure but I figured that touch technology wouldn't work under water. Isn't it something to do with electrical resistance of air being much higher than that of our bodies which are 70% water? I assumed that water being a better conductor than air would change this.

Another point is that it is commonly recognised that a user likes tactile feedback from things like switches, dials and buttons, they like to be able to 'feel' that they have pressed something.

The iPod caters for this need partly with its 'clicker' sound when you turn the thumbwheel, the feedback from the wheel isn't very tactile but the clicker helps to compensate, you can hear that you're turning it even if you can't feel it very well.

It isn't impossible for Apple to produce a camera of this nature, but it would restrict their design possibilities significantly if they chose to make it dual environment.
post #28 of 31
Hmmmm... true, true.

But if you are Jonathan Ive and was asked from the Steveness:

"I see a camera, a digital one. One that takes both still and motion. Its self enclosed with a huge storage capacity. Battery life of all day. Its simple. Its beautiful. A child can operate it and it must be durable. It must be able to withstand an occasional drop in the swimming pool or drop on a sandy beach. Jonathan, this is what I see, make it so."

Wow, I got excited. It would be nice if Apple did produce a camera. I think they could make a killing design.
post #29 of 31
Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff I'd like to see Apple design. A camera would be nice and if it was submersible I can imagine it looking like an electric bar of soap which has a certain appeal.
post #30 of 31
[quote]Originally posted by Tulkas:
<strong>

... No, he says, salt water seals aren't important..he just wants to use it alone in the shower. I had no idea what to say to that and our conversation sort of ended there.</strong><hr></blockquote>

[quote] an electric bar of soap which has a certain appeal. <hr></blockquote>

There is a disturbing theme developing here.
The people are so happy now, their heads are caving in.
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The people are so happy now, their heads are caving in.
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post #31 of 31
This thread is ridiculous.......
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