New Powerbooks + iBooks 6. nov! - Page 2

[quote]Originally posted by RodUK:
<strong>


However, one potential surprise, according to one source, will be the introduction of built-in Bluetooth connectivity, which would make the PowerBooks the first ever Macs to support the short range wireless technology without requiring an adaptor. Since the release of Mac OS X 10.2 which supports Bluetooth and the launch of iSync, the first Mac application to make use of the technology, Apple has become one of the leading supporters of the emerging standard. And the company is expected to unveil Bluetooth peripherals as early as next January.

]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.

[quote]Originally posted by FlashGordon:
<strong>

Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

While 1
{
printf("Waiting for powerbook\
");
}

Seems to me like there's no exit case in the way you're operating Flash...

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: off/lang ]</p>

The iBook is effectively a $300 price cut for the midrange model, if the Think Secret report is correct -- $200 in real money, plus $100 in moving to a "bigger hard drive" which I would assume to be the 30GB which is currently a $100 option.

It's a very good move for the iBook line; if they seem hung up on the MHz issue with the PowerBook, at least they're doing the next best thing and pricing the iBook appropriately and reasonably competitively.

I'm more sure than ever that the G4 is turning out to be rather like the Pentium 4-M in terms of heat and power usage -- there's simply no way of sticking 1GHz to 1.2GHz chips in that tiny titanium case without melting it. So, barring a major development on the processor front, Apple would have to relegate the TiBook to midrage status and bring out a new eight pound model for power users with a faster processor and a bigger cooling fan. We'll see what's in store next summer.

[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>

Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm with you, especially when you can buy a USB Bluetooth adaptor like the D-Link or Palladio for around £45 anyway.

[quote]Originally posted by photoeditor:
<strong>
It's a very good move for the iBook line; if they seem hung up on the MHz issue with the PowerBook, at least they're doing the next best thing and pricing the iBook appropriately and reasonably competitively.

I'm more sure than ever that the G4 is turning out to be rather like the Pentium 4-M in terms of heat and power usage -- there's simply no way of sticking 1GHz to 1.2GHz chips in that tiny titanium case without melting it. So, barring a major development on the processor front, Apple would have to relegate the TiBook to midrage status and bring out a new eight pound model for power users with a faster processor and a bigger cooling fan. We'll see what's in store next summer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

While I welcome any price cut, as outlined at ThinkSecret, I'm still not convinced about the G3 chip. If I'm finding a 700 G4 iMac to be barely usable in OSX, I'm not sure I'd want a G3 700 or even 800 iBook.
But you've got a point given that Powerbooks will remain relatively slow in the G4 line and hence restricts the possibility of the iBooks going there.

If the Think Secret report is true (and they've been pretty good) then the strategy for the PowerBooks might mirror the strategy for the iBooks: A modest upgrade combined with a significant price cut.

They've done it before with the PowerBooks. Right about this time of year, if memory serves.

[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>

:eek: Competitive pricing from Apple?</strong><hr></blockquote>

ahem.... told you so

[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>

While I welcome any price cut, as outlined at ThinkSecret, I'm still not convinced about the G3 chip. If I'm finding a 700 G4 iMac to be barely usable in OSX, I'm not sure I'd want a G3 700 or even 800 iBook.
But you've got a point given that Powerbooks will remain relatively slow in the G4 line and hence restricts the possibility of the iBooks going there.</strong><hr></blockquote>

We haven't seen the new iBook so we can't evaluate it, however, you have to consider more than the processor. Cache size, hard drive performance, video card and such will also have major effects on real world performance.

It is becoming a tired discussion point but a lot OS X is actually quite fast while the GUI tends to drag. Applescript, networking, file copies and such are quite fast. Window resizing and scrolling could be better. This is also very subjective. When I played with the current 700MHz iBook at an Apple Store it seemed quite usable. An 800MHz iBook with a better graphics card and hard drive will be even better.

[quote]Originally posted by neutrino23:
<strong>
When I played with the current 700MHz iBook at an Apple Store it seemed quite usable. An 800MHz iBook with a better graphics card and hard drive will be even better.</strong><hr></blockquote>

buying a machine a year after OS X 's release and describing it as seeming "quite usable" is pathetic.

at this point in time OS X's performance on new machines should be a non-issue.... but unfortunately it still is... especially on the G3 based iBook line.

[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>

Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I can't believe it but I'm responding to my own post. But furthermore, the least they could do is to give any new Powerbook a 167mhz bus speed to further differentiate it from the current offerings.

In other words, the key differences would be:
-faster cpu
-faster bus
-bluetooth built-in
-better video card
-firewire 2 (doubt it)
-usb2 (really doubt it)

[quote]Originally posted by FlashGordon:
<strong>

Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Go buy a PC and some medication, you need them both.

[quote]Originally posted by Nebrie:
<strong>

Go buy a PC and some medication, you need them both.</strong><hr></blockquote>

does tha help or solve anything..... there's nothing stupider than someone whining about a product before it is even released except for maybe someone who makes posts like you just did.

Is 'stupider' a word? hehe

Also, sad, that TS didn't mention price cuts for the PB Nice to see on the iBook, should really do well to move a lot of those, but why not the same for te PB? Apple seems to be making consumer items better priced then the pros. I guess they think pros have more cash to spend.

I hope they lower the price on the PowerBook. It should be $1999 and $2599. Not $2599 and $3199. I would like to add that I would appreciate a PowerBook that is smaller, in size. Like a 14 inch screen as opposed to a 15 incher.

[quote]Originally posted by DHagan4755:
<strong>I hope they lower the price on the PowerBook. It should be $1999 and $2599. Not $2599 and $3199. I would like to add that I would appreciate a PowerBook that is smaller, in size. Like a 14 inch screen as opposed to a 15 incher.</strong><hr></blockquote>

then why dont you get a 14" iBook, seems like what you want

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>Is 'stupider' a word? hehe

</strong><hr></blockquote>

of course it is

[quote]Originally posted by DHagan4755:
<strong>I hope they lower the price on the PowerBook. It should be $1999 and $2599. Not $2599 and $3199. I would like to add that I would appreciate a PowerBook that is smaller, in size. Like a 14 inch screen as opposed to a 15 incher.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That would be sweet, then I could get the high end for the lowend price.

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

buying a machine a year after OS X 's release and describing it as seeming "quite usable" is pathetic.

at this point in time OS X's performance on new machines should be a non-issue.... but unfortunately it still is... especially on the G3 based iBook line.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I tend to blame OS X for this more than anything. As OS X is barely 1.5 year's old, it isn't so surprising though.

[quote]Originally posted by RodUK:
<strong>
The upgraded PowerBooks will stick with the existing ATI 7500 Mobility Radeon graphics rather than upgrading to the more powerful ATI 9500 Mobility system
</strong><hr></blockquote>

There is no such thing as a Radeon 9500 mobile, at least as of now. The current top-of-the-line mobile GPU from ATI is the Radeon 9000 mobile, according to their website.

Bye,
RazzFazz

[quote]Originally posted by Ensign Pulver:
<strong>
4. Improved DVD playback
</strong><hr></blockquote>

How in the world are 64MB of VRAM going to improve your DVD playback, of all things?


[quote]<strong>
Oh, and
8. "128k ought to be enough for anybody" and similar past ridiculous statements regarding current technology supposedly reaching its effective limit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, it was 640k, not 128k.

Bye,
RazzFazz

[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>

Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.</strong><hr></blockquote>
When Apple swiched from ADB to USB I didn't see the point. I figured back then that they should skip USB and go straight to firewire. Today I have a USB scroll optical mouse, joystick. graphics pad, USB printer, compact flash card reader, and a mytv2go.

I had a system with firewire for about a year before I had any devices. Today I have an iPod and 2 firewire drives.

Bluetooth may be like infrared. I have had 2 laptops with infrared and never used it.
I don't have any plans for any bluetooth devices currently, well maybe a cellphone some day. However, I didn't have any plans for USB or Firewire either. Will bluetooth devices be useful? Most things you can do with bluetooth you probably can do with a USB cable. If I look under, my desk I realize that I don't really want more cables. You never know, but it has to start somewhere. Becoming a standard part gives it a shot at being used.

[quote]Originally posted by Paul:
<strong>

then why dont you get a 14" iBook, seems like what you want</strong><hr></blockquote>No, I don't want a G3 and polycarbonate plastic...I want a "Mini Ti," if you will.

While I don't mind polycarbonate, a small, G4 based laptop would indeed be luvverly. I'd buy one.

OS X is quite fast for me on my iMac G4. Actually it is as fast as OS 9 was. Maybe you guys, who are finding it very slow, should try a fresh install. I did this to my iMac when 10.2 came out because I wanted 9 on a different partition. I noticed a good 20% speed increase on my machine after doing so. A very obvious 20%. I don't know why this effects it so much but I have sense done the same thing to all of our Macs. The PowerMac G4867 runs better and faster, the Cube 450 is substantially faster, and my iMac G4 is much more fluent.

\tI am not just saying that a fresh install of 10.2 runs faster that an old install of 10.2. But that a fresh install of 10.2 runs better, much better, than using the upgrade function. Don't ask me why but I have noticed this on 3 computers now.

[quote]Originally posted by FlashGordon:
<strong>

Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's your own damn fault you waited, not Apple's. You can't expect them to release products in mind of what YOU want. How selfish...

So now you are going to wait another 6 months, and just see another small leap in MHz, and you're going to complain then. But by then I am sure something like "Screw Macs, I am getting a PC" will come out of your mouth.

If you need a computer now, buy now. If you don't, then shut up.

[quote]Originally posted by FlashGordon:
<strong>

Read the whole post if you are going to flame me jack ass. The april 29th update did not meet my expectations, so I waited...and waited...and waited...and now I get 133 mhz, and thats it. And I did not say anything about the cycle, I am aware of the 6 month Apple trend, just not the 6 months and ONLY 16% clock increase and bluetooth(worthless to 90% of people including myself)trend. Now do you understand what I meant and why I am disapointed or do I need to explain it some more for you, Nebrie?

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: FlashGordon ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


Hey Flash, we're all disappointed that Apple's product doesn't beat the youknowwhat out of PCs in every respect - price, performance, applications, ease of use, etc! Your original post sortof bashed Apple engineering - which a lot of us think is pretty awesome - but I'm with you on the disappointment. My son has an iBook 600mhz and we think it's great, but it would be way better - because it's performance does sometimes get in the way - if it had a G4 at 800Mhz or more and a 32mb graphics card. I just wish that all the Mac's had twice the Mhz and the same (or lower!!) price. I'm sure Apple wishes that too!

I'm a desktop PC user, but almost 100% decided on getting an Apple laptop next. I don't need to tell you what's good about them so I'll list some things that I think could be made better.

- OS user interface, specifically, using the computer with keyboard only. Trackpads just plain suck IMHO, and I don't want to carry a regular mouse just to make a laptop usable. I've used a friend's Powerbook with all the shortcuts OS X offers, and had to use the trackpad way too often. Why not copy the way Windows uses the Alt key in menus, and apply the same behaviour in Apple key?

- All-in-one design. To a limit this is nice, both for usability and for engineering (cost, power) reasons, but when it comes to expensive parts like optical drives, I'd hate to pay for CD-RW or DVD-R capability when I am only going to use DVD. Bothers me even more because optical drives are easily interchangable parts. (See next comment for a large part of the solution.)

- Powerbook modular bays. I don't particularly appreciate sacrificing useful features for a perceived "cool" factor.

- Pro features in iBook form factor. 12.1" screen, Powerbook level processor, video card, and especially dual monitor capability. The lack of latter on current iBooks is irritating because a) it's de facto standard on PC laptops no matter how cheap they are b) it costs almost nothing to add. And reasons for smaller screen? Portability, battery consumption, price, and the fact that on the desktop we can have huge external monitors anyway.

- Different design for Powerbook. I personally find the current one ugly compared to iBook (why the heck doesn't keyboard stretch across the whole Powerbook?) plus I hear the titanium scratches easily. The latter problem is just engineering, and could be corrected simply by anodizing the Ti parts, which hardens the surface. See <a href="http://www.1sks.com/images/benchmade/bm-42-1.jpg" target="_blank">this URL</a> for a knife with Ti handles, plain and anodized. I believe anodizing can be done in most colors, but blue and a sort of green seem the most common.

hoping to spark some discussion
- Gon

[ 11-03-2002: Message edited by: Gon ]

[ 11-03-2002: Message edited by: Gon ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>I am expecting very competitive pricing on these... I think we may be surprised with that, especially if they are just speedbumps.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm. I was just over at the MacNN forums, and apparently if you go through the entire checkout process at The Apple Store for either iBook or PB you'll see (under 180 day) iBook 'starting at 999.00' or PB 'starting at 2299.00'. Looks like we'll get 200 bucks lopped off the PowerBook as well!

bet you they don't!!!!

I still wager that it will be February 2003

Lets see - I hope you are right - but I bet you arn't!

[quote]Originally posted by kittylitterdesign:
<strong>bet you they don't!!!!

I still wager that it will be February 2003

Lets see - I hope you are right - but I bet you arn't!

</strong><hr></blockquote>

How old are you?

Ugh. Judging from the full specs for the iBooks posted over at the <a href="http://www.powerpage.org/story.lasso?newsID=10160" target="_blank">PowerPage</a> it looks like we are in for a very boring update. They haven't posted PowerBook specs yet but I don't expect them to be much either. No Bluetooth. No Superdrive. Just minor speed bumps and price cuts for both the iBooks and PowerBooks. Sheesh. I'm glad I didn't put my PowerBook on eBay.

[quote]Originally posted by apple.otaku:
<strong>No Superdrive.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The 'No SuperDrive-equipped model' text on the page is in reference to the iBook models, not the PowerBook models. If you expected a SuperDrive in an iBook then you are really dreaming.

In the PowerBooks, however, that is still up in the air.

[quote]Originally posted by 709:
<strong>

Hmm. I was just over at the MacNN forums, and apparently if you go through the entire checkout process at The Apple Store for either iBook or PB you'll see (under 180 day) iBook 'starting at 999.00' or PB 'starting at 2299.00'. Looks like we'll get 200 bucks lopped off the PowerBook as well!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Checkout the post near the bottom

<a href="http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&s=50009562&a=tpc&f=8300945231&m=774096773 5&r=2720900835#2720900835" target="_blank">iBooker Post at MacArs</a>

[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
<strong>

The 'No SuperDrive-equipped model' text on the page is in reference to the iBook models, not the PowerBook models. If you expected a SuperDrive in an iBook then you are really dreaming.

In the PowerBooks, however, that is still up in the air. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that I think they are holding out for January. We already know that both the iBooks and PowerBooks are getting $200 price cuts across the board. Prices starting at $999 for the iBook and $2299 for the PowerBook. It seems these are just holdovers, the bare minimum needed for decent Holiday sales.

Whoever said that Mac OS X is barely usable on a G3 600 needs to wake up. There are millions of iMac G3, Power Mac G3, PowerBook G3, and iBook G3 users that find Mac OS X completely usable.

Oog. If those PowerPage specs are real I'll be disappointed. I was hoping for at least a system bus increase and more standard RAM. No mention of VRAM though. Maybe 32? If it stays at 16 my credit card will stay in my pocket as well. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[edit] Oh, and a CD-ROM drive on the low end? What happened to Rip / Mix / Burn? Surely a CD-RW would have been at least as inexpensive to include.

[ 11-04-2002: Message edited by: 709 ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Gon:
<strong>dual monitor capability. The lack of latter on current iBooks is irritating because a) it's de facto standard on PC laptops no matter how cheap they are b) it costs almost nothing to add.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And it'll take you two minutes to add it yourself.

[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>

Is it just me or does anyone else not get excited by Bluetooth?
If this article is correct and if Bluetooth is "the feature" reason to upgrade to the new Powerbooks, I'll pass.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I totally agree with you on that. i have no bluetooth enabled device and i have no plans to invest in one anytime soon. the feature that will get me to consider the new powerbooks is either a Radeon 9500 M or a SuperDrive.

Apart from that, ith as to be said that Apple's pro-portable lineup has to come down in price to $1999 and $2799 (or similar).

What with this current economy and all, you have to cut prices to sell, and seeing how the iBook will dropp below $1000, i think it's high time the 15" entry level iMac does the same.

As for the PowerMac i think $1499 would be a great entry level price(since it has no monitor).

Bluetooth can wait until all Pro products have the Superdrive option (and personally, im betting on getting that Superdrived PowerBookG4 before Christmas, i have a feeling Apple will surprise us.)

[ 11-04-2002: Message edited by: Hawkeye_a ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>
And it'll take you two minutes to add it yourself.</strong><hr></blockquote>So it only needs drivers? I suspected something like that but it just felt unbelievable they don't have the feature installed properly in the first place...

Thanks for the info.

- Gon

[quote]Originally posted by Gon:
<strong>So it only needs drivers? I suspected something like that but it just felt unbelievable they don't have the feature installed properly in the first place...

Thanks for the info.

- Gon</strong><hr></blockquote>

no, he's referring to a hack which in some cases leaves machines unusable... I don't know why he referred to that as a solution