or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Lies and the Presidency
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Lies and the Presidency  

post #1 of 561
Thread Starter 
During the three year witch hunt of Clinton which put nearly all progress to a halt, people kept saying that it wasn't about the BJ in the oval office but the fact that he LIED UNDER OATH. He was impeached because he LIED UNDER OATH.

Now we have Bush lying about the nature of the threat that Saddam posed against the US. He lied to start a war. Was it under oath? No. Still, one would think that with the severity of the events that took place because of our trust in his words, this is worse than what Clinton did.

So, which is worse? Lying under oath about a BJ or lying while not under oath to start a war?

Hmm?

I think you all know my answer.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #2 of 561
What oath does the president take to get into office? Technically he may be under oath, depending on his actions.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #3 of 561
Thread Starter 
This is the oath he took:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #4 of 561
Is that all? I couldn't even find that on Google though. Maybe it's the Brazilian liquor.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #5 of 561
Thread Starter 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #6 of 561
"To the best of my ability"

That could be a vast escape.....

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #7 of 561
It would seem a lot of people aren't comfortable with the idea of the president lying to us to get his way. Imagine that.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #8 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
It would seem a lot of people aren't comfortable with the idea of the president lieing to us to get his way. Imagine that.

I don't like it if it is the case.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #9 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
"To the best of my ability"

That could be a vast escape.....

Fellowship

hehe, your best post yet.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #10 of 561
There is something very wrong in the world when Fellowship starts stealing my jokes.
post #11 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders the White
There is something very wrong in the world when Fellowship starts stealing my jokes.

LOL!! Cheers

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #12 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
"To the best of my ability"

That could be a vast escape.....

Fellowship

I just discovered the dark face of fship
post #13 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by BR

I think you all know my answer.

Prove Bush Lied ?
I am sure that congress will be waiting with baited breath for your evidence....
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #14 of 561
BR:

Quote:
So, which is worse? Lying under oath about a BJ or lying while not under oath to start a war?

In a legal sense Clinton lying under oath is "worse" than Bush lying while not under oath.

In a moral sense, Clinton lying about WMD to bomb Iraq and strengthen sanctions is "worse" than Bush lying about WMD to bomb Iraq because the ends were different; Clinton accomplished nothing (no good came of it), Bush ousted Hussein and got rid of sanctions (2 good things). Because those are the two lies you have to compare if you want to be honest about it.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #15 of 561
First of all. this thread is total bullshit. Why? Because there is no evindence Bush lied about anything at all. None. We've found bioweapons trailers. We've found banned delivery systems. We've found traces of WMD in the Euphrates. And, I think we'll see more.

There is also the possibility that the intelligence given to him was flawed or exaggerated. In addition, many here seem to be under the impression that said intelligence is "cut and dry". From what I hear, there is a lot of guesswork involved, possibilities ranging from "extremely high" to "significant" to "low". It's not the exact science people think it is. The administration has said itself it focused on WMD as a justification for war because, in the words of Paul Wolfowitz "it was the one thing everyone could agree on. He went on to talk about the human situation in Iraq, the threat to Israel, etc. There were a multitude of reasons, including the fact that Iraq had targeted and fired on our aircraft thousands of times. The justification for war was overwhelming. From Saddam's complete violation of the 1991 ceasefire, to his lack of cooperation witht he toothless UN, to his violation of the oil for food program....the evidence for it was staggering.

What Bush and Blair may have done wrong is focus on the WMD a bit too much. In fact, going to the UN may have been a mistake. Rumor has it Powell convinced him to go....perhaps Bush was right in his instincts to go it alone after all. Perhaps they should have focused on our planes being targeted, Saddam's open praise of 9/11, Al-Queda, etc.

In any case there is absolutely ZERO evidence Bush lied at this point. I don't believe he and Blair would be that incredibly stupid to think no one would ever find out. Really now...I think they're going to find a shitload of banned weapons and/or present much of the intelligence they had.

My question is: Since many of the Dems are jumping on the "we haven't found the WMD/Bush may have lied" bandwagon, what will happen to them politically if and when we find this stuff? It would be worse for them to be wrong than if Bush turned out to wrong. He could always show the intelligence he had, and simply say he was acting on what he felt was a threat to the American people and American interests abroad. Let's also not forget that members of Congress saw this intelliegence as well, and that Bush subsequently acted under the added authority of a joint Congressional resolution. It's going to be very bad politically if they criticize him and are proven wrong. VERY bad.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #16 of 561
The main point is that all Presidents lie, just not all get caught/punished. Nixon's lying was much much worse than Clinton's, but Clinton was still wrong. Bush's lying was so obvious that anyone who really believed that we were going to Iraq just because of WMD is a tad naive. I don't think lying is an impeachable offense...impeachment should be reserved, as the Constitution says, for high crimes and misdemeanors. It should be a last drastic step and as much as I hate Bush and his administration, he shouldn't be impeached just because he fudged a bit on the war.
post #17 of 561
I agree with SDW to an extent, I think Bush knew he was going out there and selling a shaky plan as if it were solid. I'm even willing to say he lied for expediency. I definitely wouldn't say there's ZERO evidence that he has lied, only evidence that's as strong as what he said about WMD; up-to and including the latest Guardian debacle.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #18 of 561
Ladies and Gents, if you think GWB went into Iraq without covering his ass, you are out of your tree.
post #19 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
Ladies and Gents, if you think GWB went into Iraq without covering his ass, you are out of your tree.

But while Bush may not take the fall for the apparent reasons we went to war in Iraq, someone will. Its either going to be Rummey, the CIA chief, or some other spooks. I dont think you can silent people forever though... well there is one way.
post #20 of 561
Quote:
well there is one way.

They go camping with Vince Foster?
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #21 of 561
Thread Starter 
irony, n. -

Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
this thread is total bullshit.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #22 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
First of all. this thread is total bullshit. Why? Because there is no evindence Bush lied about anything at all. None.

IAEA reports. You fail.

Quote:
We've found bioweapons trailers.

At least your aren't afraid to look stupid. Here we have a big example, since there is actually more evidence that they are not bio weapons trailers than that they are. But you haven't really looked into the particulars, have you?
post #23 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by billybobsky
But while Bush may not take the fall for the apparent reasons we went to war in Iraq, someone will. Its either going to be Rummey, the CIA chief, or some other spooks. I dont think you can silent people forever though... well there is one way.

Feith is already being publicly chastised for being too wild, so we might be seeing the beginning. As far as silencing people, the Admin doesn't really need to. The press and dimwit americans eat up everything the president says, and, as we can see, even when the admin consistently makes claims that don't stand up to even the smallest scrutiny, they are still able to get away with just about anything.
post #24 of 561
(I don't edit posts often... ever actually. Take that as a hint and clean up your act. This is your warning - Groverat: The Evil Moderator)
post #25 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
We've found bioweapons trailers.

When did this happen? Can you cite a source? I remember a mobile lab that could have been used to manufacture chemical weapons being found...but no traces of chemical or biological weapons.


Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
There is also the possibility that the intelligence given to him was flawed or exaggerated.

That is a possibility, but it would appear that the reality of the situation is that the intelligence reports from last year accurately stated that there were no WMD and the exaggeration was all on the part of the Bush administration.

See: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...RS398&refer=us


Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
It's going to be very bad politically if they criticize him and are proven wrong. VERY bad.

Here's a thought...how about if they are proven right...how about if it comes out that Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush lied to start a war for their own profit and the profit of their friends. How bad would things be for them then?
post #26 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by jwri004
If SDW was any closer to Bush he would have his dick up his arse.

The shit that comes out of this boys mouth is unbelievable, the untruth intolerable

This is an inappropriate post. Moderator?

I stick by my orginal post.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #27 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001


I stick by my orginal post.

But we already know that Bush did lie, and the most blatant of them was the fabricated IAEA reports. You fail.
post #28 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
This is an inappropriate post. Moderator?

This may be the first time ever I agree with SDW.
post #29 of 561
He is betting high:

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/15...goes_on+.shtml

Quote:
resident Bush, paying his first visit to US troops in the Persian Gulf region to thank them for their service in Iraq, declared yesterday that coalition forces are ''on the look'' for weapons of mass destruction and will find them.

Not "...if they are there".

Why do he do this?
post #30 of 561
The bioweapons trailers were NOT for bioweaposn . . . that has been shown repeatedly . . .hese kinds of portable labs are common for testing agricu;ture and factory work . . .

more . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #31 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
First of all. this thread is total bullshit. Why? Because there is no evindence Bush lied about anything at all. None. We've found bioweapons trailers. We've found banned delivery systems. We've found traces of WMD in the Euphrates. And, I think we'll see more.

There is also the possibility that the intelligence given to him was flawed or exaggerated. In addition, many here seem to be under the impression that said intelligence is "cut and dry". From what I hear, there is a lot of guesswork involved, possibilities ranging from "extremely high" to "significant" to "low". It's not the exact science people think it is. The administration has said itself it focused on WMD as a justification for war because, in the words of Paul Wolfowitz "it was the one thing everyone could agree on. He went on to talk about the human situation in Iraq, the threat to Israel, etc. There were a multitude of reasons, including the fact that Iraq had targeted and fired on our aircraft thousands of times. The justification for war was overwhelming. From Saddam's complete violation of the 1991 ceasefire, to his lack of cooperation witht he toothless UN, to his violation of the oil for food program....the evidence for it was staggering.

What Bush and Blair may have done wrong is focus on the WMD a bit too much. In fact, going to the UN may have been a mistake. Rumor has it Powell convinced him to go....perhaps Bush was right in his instincts to go it alone after all. Perhaps they should have focused on our planes being targeted, Saddam's open praise of 9/11, Al-Queda, etc.

In any case there is absolutely ZERO evidence Bush lied at this point. I don't believe he and Blair would be that incredibly stupid to think no one would ever find out. Really now...I think they're going to find a shitload of banned weapons and/or present much of the intelligence they had.

My question is: Since many of the Dems are jumping on the "we haven't found the WMD/Bush may have lied" bandwagon, what will happen to them politically if and when we find this stuff? It would be worse for them to be wrong than if Bush turned out to wrong. He could always show the intelligence he had, and simply say he was acting on what he felt was a threat to the American people and American interests abroad. Let's also not forget that members of Congress saw this intelliegence as well, and that Bush subsequently acted under the added authority of a joint Congressional resolution. It's going to be very bad politically if they criticize him and are proven wrong. VERY bad.



Don't you wish. Well we'll see. I'm thinking he's not any more organized than anyone else in government. There's almost always the forgotten loose thread. If there is something out there to find they'll find it.

PS." Really now...I think they're going to find a shitload of banned weapons and/or present much of the intelligence they had. "

Please, not unless they plant them. The idea that Bush being there means they will find them now when the experts couldn't is pretty far fetched.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #32 of 561
Jusdt a side note:

Anybody notice this cyclical pattern:
Republicans take office and set up witch hunts to find out Dems lie about stuff . . . they find lies about romance.

Repubs take office and the Dems don't even need to try: the Criminal large scale global lying reveals itself:
Nixon and Watergate
Reagan and Bush Sr with Guns to Evil Axis member Iran for money for Contras and hostages
Bush Jr: lying to push an agenda, Pax Americana, and/or to get contracts and oil for his buddies . .

A BJ or global scale lies? . . . which is really more important?
personal life (which should have remained personal,) or sending our young men into combat and reversing our notion of pre-emption and INVADING a soveriegn nation?
hmmm?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #33 of 561
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
This is an inappropriate post. Moderator?

I stick by my orginal post.

Quote:
this thread is total bullshit.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #34 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Jusdt a side note:

Anybody notice this cyclical pattern:
Republicans take office and set up witch hunts to find out Dems lie about stuff . . . they find lies about romance.

Repubs take office and the Dems don't even need to try: the Criminal large scale global lying reveals itself:
Nixon and Watergate
Reagan and Bush Sr with Guns to Evil Axis member Iran for money for Contras and hostages
Bush Jr: lying to push an agenda, Pax Americana, and/or to get contracts and oil for his buddies . .

A BJ or global scale lies? . . . which is really more important?
personal life (which should have remained personal,) or sending our young men into combat and reversing our notion of pre-emption and INVADING a soveriegn nation?
hmmm?

Having an affair I can forgive. That's really the married couple's business. He just shouldn't have lied when confronted. However lying for an agenda or personal gain when death is involved I can't forgive.

As a side note I just thought of something. When Clinton bombed Iraq he gave them a bloody nose to get them to comply. He wasn't out to destroy the government or kill Saddam. He never said Iraq was a direct threat to us. He just wanted them to comply. Bush was out for blood and did claim Iraq was a direct threat. He went there with a license to kill. A totally different situation.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #35 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
The bioweapons trailers were NOT for bioweaposn . . . that has been shown repeatedly . . .hese kinds of portable labs are common for testing agricu;ture and factory work . . .

more . .

More chemical-processing trailers found!
http://www.mobileprocess.com/INDUS_Chemical.html
post #36 of 561
Report problems to moderators via e-mail, PM, or use the little bolt icon at the bottom right corner of each post. Let's not play moderator within the thread.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #37 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
IAEA reports. You fail.



At least your aren't afraid to look stupid. Here we have a big example, since there is actually more evidence that they are not bio weapons trailers than that they are. But you haven't really looked into the particulars, have you?


The conlcusion was that they could not have been for any other purpose than for bioweapons production. They did not find any actual chemicals.

kneelbeforezod:

Quote:
Here's a thought...how about if they are proven right...how about if it comes out that Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush lied to start a war for their own profit and the profit of their friends. How bad would things be for them then?

Lied for their own profit? Please. Let me ask you a question then: What was Blair's motivation? The war was hugely unpopular. Why would he have done it? But if that was proven, It would be bad. But, it won't be. It's an adsurd notion.

giant:



Quote:
But we already know that Bush did lie, and the most blatant of them was the fabricated IAEA reports. You fail.

Bush fabricated reports? Whatever. He made a few speeches a year or so ago and verbally referenced some things. Suddenly this becomes "fabricating reports"? Please

pfflam:


Quote:
The bioweapons trailers were NOT for bioweaposn . . . that has been shown repeatedly . . .hese kinds of portable labs are common for testing agricu;ture and factory work . . .

more . .

That is 100% wrong. 100%.


jimmac:

Quote:
Please, not unless they plant them. The idea that Bush being there means they will find them now when the experts couldn't is pretty far fetched.

Not unless they plant them? Really! Experts!?!?! You mean Hans "I'm the 23rd choice for this job" Blix who was working with Iraqi minders 100% of the time after five years of no inspectors being present in Iraq? Are those the experts you mean???


pfflam:


Quote:
Jusdt a side note:

Anybody notice this cyclical pattern:
Republicans take office and set up witch hunts to find out Dems lie about stuff . . . they find lies about romance.

Repubs take office and the Dems don't even need to try: the Criminal large scale global lying reveals itself:
Nixon and Watergate
Reagan and Bush Sr with Guns to Evil Axis member Iran for money for Contras and hostages
Bush Jr: lying to push an agenda, Pax Americana, and/or to get contracts and oil for his buddies . .

A BJ or global scale lies? . . . which is really more important?
personal life (which should have remained personal,) or sending our young men into combat and reversing our notion of pre-emption and INVADING a soveriegn nation?
hmmm?


Stop! My sides are splitting! Yes, pfflam, it all boils down to that: Republicans lie about global scandal and democrats lie about BJ. Congratulations, Sherlock. [pfflam filter engaged]


jimmac:

Quote:
As a side note I just thought of something. When Clinton bombed Iraq he gave them a bloody nose to get them to comply. He wasn't out to destroy the government or kill Saddam. He never said Iraq was a direct threat to us. He just wanted them to comply. Bush was out for blood and did claim Iraq was a direct threat. He went there with a license to kill. A totally different situation.

It keeps getting better!!! This is great stuff! Nevermind that Clinton bombed without ANY U.N. approval. Nevermind that he made virutally the EXACT same arguments Bush did. Where were the charges of unilateralism in 1998? Where were they in Kosovo? Hmmm.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #38 of 561
post #39 of 561
Thread Starter 
SDW, how about you just not participate in my threads? You whine and moan about how everyone else has wronged you but you add absolutely nothing to the conversation here other than a "no it's not" or "liar liar" to any number of "i believe this and here's why and here's evidence as to why" statements. Shit man, you've even topped me in the derisive laughter category. That's ****in hard to do. Just keep this shit to your own wacky threads, ok?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #40 of 561
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
The conlcusion was that they could not have been for any other purpose than for bioweapons production. They did not find any actual chemicals.

Um, no. The only person in the world who has made that claim has been Bush, while every expert, intel analyst or inspector says otherwise. In fact, every single pice of evidence points away from bio weapons, and Iraq was known to have trailers like these and they were inspected before the war. Trailers of this kind are common and even produced in the US as I pointed out above. Deal with it.

Quote:
Bush fabricated reports? Whatever. He made a few speeches a year or so ago and verbally referenced some things. Suddenly this becomes "fabricating reports"? Please

He cited a non-existant IAEA report to pretend Iraq had a nuke program, saying, and I quote, "What more justification do you need?"

You really need to come back to reality some time, chief.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
This thread is locked  
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Lies and the Presidency