or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › AI gets in on the action
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AI gets in on the action - Page 4

post #121 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
[AppleInsider] have no true insider sources...if it turns out that they do, then I'll suck my own dick!

Better start working on those flexibility exercises, Junkyard Dawg!

Escher
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
Reply
post #122 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
Just to follow up. Pink was 10.2.6 and Smeagol seems to be 10.2.7:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...0&pagenumber=3


Pink was also a stillborn spin-off from Taligent in the AIM days...

probably not following that mold, we hope

but yes, Brad went Ding Ding for the "developer code name of x.2.7" answer.
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #123 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by curiousuburb
but yes, Brad went Ding Ding for the "developer code name of x.2.7" answer.

Well, not specifically for 10.2.7, but for "code name for an update to 10.2 ... that lets it run on the 970".

Better?
post #124 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Well, not specifically for 10.2.7, but for "code name for an update to 10.2 ... that lets it run on the 970".

Better?

Ultimate
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #125 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by boy_analog
I'm not saying that there'll never be dual cores, just that we won't see them straight away. We'll surely see dual-CPU boxen before we see dual-cored beasts.

As for moki, I know he made some tantalising remarks about "sandbagging". I presume that this relates to IBM understating the performance of the 970 in some respect, or perhaps hinting at the arrival of groovy new go-faster stuff on the mobo.

Dual cores are more likely with the 980, next year at the earliest. Don't expect it on the 970 ever. Singles immediately? Yes! A dual processor box? Yes, within a short time I think, maybe a month.

Re: Moki's remarks. IBM does have a penchant for understatement. i.e their Q3 production statement. From anyone else, that would mean "we hope we can get started by that time if we don't run into any snags". Coming from IBM that means " we looked at all the factors, verified our processes and anticipating any predictable snags, we believe we can be at full production by that time".

I imagine that also applies to their expected performance. The Spec "estimates" they posted reflect what they are confident is the minimum they will reach with a real world product. Sandbagging indeed.
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
Reply
Mac User since '86 and Apple II before that.
Reply
post #126 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Well, not specifically for 10.2.7, but for "code name for an update to 10.2 ... that lets it run on the 970".

Better?

Brad, Does this whole thing have to do with some feature in the Mac OS?

How about I ask you a question I think you could answer. Is this info you have different in some way from what the rest of the rumors say. Is it something that will surpirse us all when it happens, or is it just a confirmation to some older rumor we have already heard before?

And can you give us some hint regarding this vegimite song linked to smeagol?
"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
Reply
"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
Reply
post #127 of 376
mMmMM... Steve speech June 23...

mMMmMMm... Applestore's special events June 24...

MmmMMmmmmMMmMMmMmm.... Me like!
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
Reply
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
Reply
post #128 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
LOL!!!

This is the same AI that said the LCD iMac would have a G3. I wonder where they pulled that info out of?

No better than MOSR, IMO. All the AI writers do is scan Future Hardware for ideas and then summarize it into a "rumor". They have no true insider sources...if it turns out that they do, then I'll suck my own dick!


Junky baby! Well why not have a little faith. Their info seems to jive with what everyone else is saying. Remember what happened when you were a pessimist last time regarding a faster powermac?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #129 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Junky baby! Well why not have a little faith. Their info seems to jive with what everyone else is saying.

This seems to me to confirm the fact that they just steal from Future Hardware.
All these worlds are belong to us, except Europa. Take off no zigs there.
Reply
All these worlds are belong to us, except Europa. Take off no zigs there.
Reply
post #130 of 376
JD, you better get one of your supposed Apple employee friends drunk again so that they can spill the beans to you.
post #131 of 376
...drunk on SMEGMA!!!

Hey, that was totally uncalled for.....I'll strike that in a little while....

tee, bloody hee
Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
Oldest Member of AI (Jan 99) until JRC snaps to his senses and starts posting again. (the blackout borked my join date)
Reply
Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
Oldest Member of AI (Jan 99) until JRC snaps to his senses and starts posting again. (the blackout borked my join date)
Reply
post #132 of 376
umm when did the "when did the gremlin arrive" thread vanish out of suggestions? It is not there any more, and I know it was an hour ago. Brad is really having fun with us poor users. But it's fun...
"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
Reply
"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
Reply
post #133 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Remember what happened when you were a pessimist last time regarding a faster powermac?

Yeah, Apple blew away the Wintels with their ultra-fast Powermac G4s. Oh, wait....
post #134 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
Brad is really having fun with us poor users.

Speak for yourself man. Its really not that hard to figure out whats going on.
I'm RICH beotch!!!
Reply
I'm RICH beotch!!!
Reply
post #135 of 376
Something wicked this way comes.......
Wait, it's the Temporary Insanity forum.
Yup, any day now......
Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
Oldest Member of AI (Jan 99) until JRC snaps to his senses and starts posting again. (the blackout borked my join date)
Reply
Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
Oldest Member of AI (Jan 99) until JRC snaps to his senses and starts posting again. (the blackout borked my join date)
Reply
post #136 of 376
Temporary Insanity r0x0r!
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
Reply
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
Reply
post #137 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
Temporary Insanity r0x0r!

Yes, quite.
I'm RICH beotch!!!
Reply
I'm RICH beotch!!!
Reply
post #138 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Yeah, Apple blew away the Wintels with their ultra-fast Powermac G4s. Oh, wait....


No, no, no, you said they wouldn't release anything significantly faster. It may have not blown PC's away but it was a big jump. Have faith. I read about this same chip taking over Apple's line everywhere. And it's not from Motorola.

But, when you start to do your thing I don't want to know about it.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #139 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
If you're flexible enough to do that... then why arn't you doing that right now like every other male in the world would?

What I want to know is would you swallow?

Oh yeah... and I really hope dual 1.8's are announced, even if they aren't immediately available -- just to throw in my redundant, but at least on-topic, two cents.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #140 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
umm when did the "when did the gremlin arrive" thread vanish out of suggestions? It is not there any more, and I know it was an hour ago. Brad is really having fun with us poor users. But it's fun...

you mean that a thread about the creature whose ring makes him disappear... has disappeared?

what can it mean? is the thread now wearing the precious?
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #141 of 376
we need a palantir in a new ring
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
Reply
post #142 of 376
We need a time machine that will send us to june 23rd.
post #143 of 376
Quote:
We need a time machine that will send us to june 23rd.

I agree. Just to go forward in time for about a 30 second summary of what happened.

Then we can come back and determine if this discussion needs to continue or not.
post #144 of 376
and to determine the ammount of apple stock to purchase
post #145 of 376
True. True.
post #146 of 376
Thread Starter 
more on smeagol

This is starting to make a lot of sense, and I think we will be verrryyy happy in a couple of weeks.
"I'm learning how to meditate, so far so good."
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker
Reply
"I'm learning how to meditate, so far so good."
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker
Reply
post #147 of 376
Quote:
. Apple and IBM are also reportedly tailoring the chip for a new high-frequency, point-to-point Mac bus dubbed ApplePI

mmmm...... pie..........
post #148 of 376
That article appears less informed than your _average_ AI poster. A couple lines made me question the validity of the entire thing.
Quote:
However, sources said, Q37 won't ship with a 64-bit version of Mac OS X, limiting OS performance gains in the initial release.

The authors obviously think that the 'bitness' of a program determines a program's speed and that a 64bit OS will run faster than a 32bit OS.

The rest of the article is fairly sound but only rehashes the same rumors found on every board... heheh 'according to sources'. I guess the article isn't terrible, just nothing new.
post #149 of 376
yes but when matt rothenburg says something you can usually bank on it. big time.
post #150 of 376
Isn't he still holding out for the iCamera?
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
Reply
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
Reply
post #151 of 376
Quote:
However, sources said, Q37 won't ship with a 64-bit version of Mac OS X, limiting OS performance gains in the initial release.

There's a good way to smoke out a source. Each group gets a different project number (Q1, Q2, ... Qn). The number that pops up identifies the group, if not necessarily the person.

Probably not so, but Tom Clancy wannabes can fantasize, right?
Die Grüne Hölle - Gute Fahrt
Reply
Die Grüne Hölle - Gute Fahrt
Reply
post #152 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by blue2kdave
more on smeagol

This is starting to make a lot of sense, and I think we will be verrryyy happy in a couple of weeks.

Quote:
From the above-linked article:
Apple's goal for Smeagol is to deliver Mac OS X performance at least "on par" with what Jaguar could achieve on Motorola G4 chips running at the same speed...

...Even before Panther ships, early adopters of the new Mac system should also apparently be able to take advantage of the new processor's fast new front-side bus and cache.

I think the author is attributing way too much importance to 64-bitness for performance, way too little to the faster bus, doesn't even mention that the 970 should get more work done per clock cycle, and also fails to mention that the 970s (if we do indeed get 1.8 GHz models) should be running higher clocks speeds the current G4s.

From what I understand, OS X, and all of our current apps running under OS X, should be able to make great leaps forward in performance, even without Pather's 64-bit capabilities -- much better than merely being "on par".
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #153 of 376
Hmm, Nick Ciarelli - is that the real name of Nick dePlume?

Rothenberg and dePlume have collaborated on articles before, and this is the second Ciarelli / Rothenberg article.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #154 of 376
Perhaps we could keep the discussion of the eWeek article in the WWDC thread, since it outlines Rothenberg's WWDC predictions.
Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
Reply
Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
Reply
post #155 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
That article appears less informed than your _average_ AI poster. A couple lines made me question the validity of the entire thing.The authors obviously think that the 'bitness' of a program determines a program's speed and that a 64bit OS will run faster than a 32bit OS.

The rest of the article is fairly sound but only rehashes the same rumors found on every board... heheh 'according to sources'. I guess the article isn't terrible, just nothing new.

Hmm, I think you're less average than you think you are...

The authors suggest very little about the 'bitness' in the article. They suggest a great deal about the relationship between gcc versions and the 970, which would seem to be spot on.

Two things we can be certain of:

1) gcc will produce increasingly better, faster, smaller 970 code with time.
2) 10.3 will be faster than 10.2 on all hardware, not just the 970s.

My take on the article is that a version of 10.2 will be produced for the new machines (which goes against what I thought Apple would do, and clearly is not making Steve a happy boy) and not only will it not be as optimized as 10.3 due to the fact that it's simply not 10.3, it might even be *relatively* slower than 10.2 for the G4 architecture due to gcc not supporting the 970 at the same level. The statement that they hope it runs as fast as 10.2 would on a comparably clocked G4 is, well, a serious disappointment since it suggests that until 10.3 ships, we should ignore any benefits the 970 might deliver beyond Mhz.

You can expect to hear Steve say: "and wait until you see how fast it is running Panther..." as a caveat to the announcement. Also worth noting is that the article suggests that Smeagol won't be ready until late July/August, so don't expect to buy that shiny 970 in 2 weeks...

I wonder what Apple will ship to reviewers. New hardware that is only linearly and predicatably faster than the G4 will be not looked upon favorably. Expect a lot of "Still much slower than a P4" statements. Of course, they might ship an incomplete Panther, which might play better since they'd blame any problems on the OS being unfinished rather than the hardware being slow. Due to this, Apple might have been forced to release a preview Panther at WWDC.

Hmm.
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
Reply
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
Reply
post #156 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsonwax
Also worth noting is that the article suggests that Smeagol won't be ready until late July/August, so don't expect to buy that shiny 970 in 2 weeks...

Buying is one thing - getting it home is another
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
Reply
post #157 of 376
Don't know if the code will be slower but the bus will faster and bigger and hopefully I can get 4 gigs of memory in it.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
Reply
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
Reply
post #158 of 376
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsonwax
The authors suggest very little about the 'bitness' in the article. They suggest a great deal about the relationship between gcc versions and the 970, which would seem to be spot on.

Two things we can be certain of:

1) gcc will produce increasingly better, faster, smaller 970 code with time.
2) 10.3 will be faster than 10.2 on all hardware, not just the 970s.

I'm sure having an optimized compiler will be a Good Thing, but I'm suspicious that the lack of compiler optimization would nearly cancel out so many of the benefits of the 970 vs. the G4.

If this were true, Mac software companies would be in a bit of a bind: Sell two different versions of every OS X app, or sell one compromise version for both G4s and 970s.

Questions for anyone who knows: What's typically done for G3 vs. G4? Other than Altivec issues, which can be dealt with like "if G4 do this fast stuff, else do this other slow stuff", are there conflicting optimizations for G3 vs. G4? If so, how do most software vendors deal with this?

My gut feeling is that 970 systems will easily outdo G4 systems on nearly all tasks, compiler optimizations or not, 64-bit OS or not.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #159 of 376
Quote:
--hh
macrumors regular

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: NJ Highlands


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by arnette
Am I the only one not getting the 'Smeagol' reference??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




'Smeagol' is from JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

It is the actual (original) name of the character most people know as 'Gollum', who was known to refer to the One Ring as "My Precious".

history info link

- - -

FWIW, insofar as 'Q37', I was just thinking about Q-Ships today.

(to preemptively explain another likely obscure reference, Q-Ships was a military term for warships disguised as mere freighters. They were designed to look like sitting ducks to lure attacks from German U-Boats and then pound the snot out of them.

The term was later used to describe high performance sports cars that were similarly "disguised", although more in Europe than in the USA, where we called them "Sleepers".

A modern example of a Sleeper or Q-Ship automobile would be something like the Audi RS4 Quattro Avant. It looks like a normal compact station wagon, but its engine has been worked over by Porsche: 0-60mph is <5 sec, 0-100ph is <12sec, and 0-125 is 17sec. Coming back down, you find that Porsche's worked on the suspension/braking systems too: 70mph-0 in 155ft.


It would be nice to have a Macintosh Q-Ship


-hh


Last edited by -hh on 06-09-2003 at 09:32 PM

I thought the 'Q' explanation was insightful...whether true or not. The idea of a 'sleeper' that 'pounds the snot' out of 'em works well for me in the PPC vs Pentium 4 context. Get ready, Intel... It may have some workstation/switcher market connotations...

As for Compiler readiness. Yeah. I expect that. If you don't optimise software you cpu doesn't run to its full potential. Well, duh.

The 970 should, in my view run at least as well as a 1.8 gig G4 on much improved bandwidth. (Don't see any G4s with extra fpu, that bandwidth or 1.8 gig. Do you?) If it takes 'Panther' to get to it's full 'twice as fast' claims. Okay. I can live with that. It needs compiler 3.3 and we all sodding know its for Panther and optimised for Panther. So, what's the big deal?

You're still going to get a faster machine from IBM/Apple than you would anytime from Motorola in the next year or so.

Imagine getting a much faster machine. Then one that gets faster still when you get your free update to Panther. Which should turn the 970 into 'Mr. Hyde'. Ouch time for Mr. Pentium.

Personally, Lemon BOn Bon has just laid out the smack on Adobe Design Collection 6, MX Studio and Final Cut Pro 3 so I won't be able to buy a 970 if they ship in August. It'll be post 970. By then dual 1.8s...and a Rev B coming down the pipe.

I'll live.

Either way. It's a new era, folks. There's so many 970 smoke signals saying the same thing...it's just a matter of waiting. The WWDC should be a stormer.

I can't wait.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
post #160 of 376
Quote:
My gut feeling is that 970 systems will easily outdo G4 systems on nearly all tasks, compiler optimizations or not, 64-bit OS or not.

There's alot of crap and voodoo mind games put out there by the Apple team I'm sure. Only when Steve Jobs takes to the stage will we truly know.

I agree with you in short. We shouldn't be worried even minus Panther...it should well and truly blow the dual G4 out the water.

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › AI gets in on the action