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AI gets in on the action - Page 2

post #41 of 376
6/7/03 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally posted by wfzelle
Apple will have to release a minor update to 10.2 to support the new machines. It needs new drivers and such. However, 10.2 will run in 32-bit mode. That means that it won't support more than 4GB of ram and won't support 64-bit apps. That won't be a problem for most users, 10.3 won't be any faster because it can run in 64-bit mode (although it probably will be faster because it is optimized better in other ways) and most people don't need 64-bit software or a lot of ram.

I'd be surprised if any 970 boxes ran 10.2. Apple is FAR better off if they can ship the faster boxes with the faster OS just to reinforce the improvements. I suspect that 10.3 will be more of a 'maturing' effort than a 'do new stuff' effort. If Apple wants new markets, much faster hardware with a faster, more refined OS will do wonders.

If Apple ships with 10.2, every single 970 review will be based on 10.2. Better to wait, if they can afford to...
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
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The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
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post #42 of 376
6/7/03 at 6:45pm
Call me daft (well, don't really...) but could someone please explain to me how AI.com and forums.AI are connected? Hell, if it wasn't for blue2kdave's post I never would've bothered to check AI's 'front page'.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #43 of 376
6/7/03 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by 709
Call me daft (well, don't really...) but could someone please explain to me how AI.com and forums.AI are connected? Hell, if it wasn't for blue2kdave's post I never would've bothered to check AI's 'front page'.

Just go to AppleInsider.
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post #44 of 376
6/7/03 at 6:57pm
Dog Almighty,

I like the name GV. Haven't seen that name suggested before. But does that mean the processor is only half the OS?
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post #45 of 376
6/7/03 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Me
Just go to AppleInsider.

Well yes, thank you. In fact I've been around long enough to say that that's the portal I used to enter the forums from (before the fancy new speed hole graphics), but I'm looking for more of an explanation.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #46 of 376
6/7/03 at 7:03pm




And I though the ads in the forums were bad.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #47 of 376
6/7/03 at 7:08pm
Good Lord!!! Speaking of speed holes, what in the Holy Hell is this ???!!!



Saturday nights at AI are starting to scare me.....
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #48 of 376
6/7/03 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
1.8GHz tops? Meh. A 3.2GHz P4 with Hyperthreading on an 800MHz FSB will be faster for most things.

I could be wrong, but aren't PC mobos with 800 MHZ FSB, not actually authentic 800 mhz? like it's just a quad pumped 200 mhz FSB, or something like that.

furthermore, the IBM PPC 970 was designed to have a FSB of half the CPU speed, no matter what. And likewise this would mean that the 1.8 would have a true 900 MHZ FSB. That's called SERIOUS BANDWIDTH that should make all everyday computing run fast as all hell.
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #49 of 376
6/7/03 at 7:22pm
G5 rumours on frontpage of AI coincide with the appearance of a fifth ring in the forum logo.

suitably positioned in sequence to be the "one ring"

as long as the new machine isn't called the Smeagol.
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them" -Isaac Asimov
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post #50 of 376
6/7/03 at 7:26pm
Yup,
I asked about it over in General Discussion, watched some TV, came back and on a whim checked the front page of AI (firt time in months) then came screaming over here.....

Cool.

In Before Third Page
Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
Oldest Member of AI (Jan 99) until JRC snaps to his senses and starts posting again. (the blackout borked my join date)
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Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
Oldest Member of AI (Jan 99) until JRC snaps to his senses and starts posting again. (the blackout borked my join date)
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post #51 of 376
6/7/03 at 7:26pm
curiousuburb you should post your comment to the thread in "suggests" we are trying to figure out. brad says it means something.

he teases.... we's don't likeeeessss beings teased do we smeagol?
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post #52 of 376
6/7/03 at 8:44pm
The tidbit that caught my eye is that the motherboard will be HyperTransport based. I have to admit that it's not exactly shocking that Apple hasn't just been keeping a seat warm in the HT Consortium all this time, but all speculation on this board has focused on RapidIO. It's not as fast, but it's plenty fast, cheap and scalable, and IBM is heavily invested in it.

The dual-core 970 CPU bit is interesting. It gives Apple some very interesting options: They can have a single-CPU board that accomodates one or two cores without modification (but the second core would be a little bandwidth starved), and a pricier dual-CPU board that can accomodate two or four cores. This would give them an effective quad-CPU board with the engineering complexity of a dual-CPU board (and make no mistake, a dual-970 board will be a bit more work than a dual-G4 board, because the 970 doesn't use a shared bus architecture).

Those boards will scale up very nicely, too. When the 980 and the 9800 come out Apple can drop them in and get effective dual and quad CPUs on a single-CPU board and effective quad and octo CPUs on a dual-CPU board, courtesy of hardware threading and dual-core processors.

Simple motherboards mean low cost and quick time to market. We should be in for a wild ride. 8)
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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post #53 of 376
6/7/03 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robust
I could be wrong, but aren't PC mobos with 800 MHZ FSB, not actually authentic 800 mhz? like it's just a quad pumped 200 mhz FSB, or something like that.


and the bandwith is over 6 Gig. As for P4s smoking these chips; they CAN compete --until you add Altivec- -and then for those apps optimised for Altivec there will be a serious difference, and not in the P4's favour...well, that's when Steve does his Photoshop number...

Oh, and the P4 at the highest comparable speeds of the 970 can be used to toast bread. And that's why you will never see the fastest P4s in a laptop- which will NOT be the case with the 970s. The 970s and 980s etc are the beginnings of the IBM "low end" processors that can only improve in speed and efficiency as time goes by. By contrast, the P4 can only be sold as a personal butt warmer if pushed any further, hence the need for Intel to come out with a different set of chips (Xeons).. and guess what? they are at lower clock speeds than the P4s, and that's an embarrassment for Intel, for now, creating a little marketing "issue', since Intel has pushed the speed issue to absurdity (and the nonthinking PC user has effusively bought into this, in those occasional and odd circumstances when they think about such things. (What goes around, comes around!)

If Apple puts two of these suckers in the computers then there will be at least a 50% increase in speed over one of them and that wil be untouchable by PC makers for the price. Quad them, and there will be no comparison. Let's hope.
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post #54 of 376
6/7/03 at 8:56pm
Quote:
1.8GHz tops? Meh. A 3.2GHz P4 with Hyperthreading on an 800MHz FSB will be faster for most things.

no, it won't.
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post #55 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:29pm
I just hope the new PowerMac G5s are not just vaporware which does not ship for months after the announcement like so many other apple products.

It seems from recent rumors that Motorola is also developing a new version of the G4. I think that the G4 is going to stick around in the consumer line for quite sometime. If Moto can indeed make the G4 go up to 2Ghz with a faster bus and the new low K technology ... well it may not be such a bad chip for the ibook and imac, and emac. Do you guys think apple with completely switch to IBM? I am of the persuasion that having two chip manufactures is better than one for Apple. The 970 seems like it will save the day for Apple. I really hope beyond anything else that they are successful, and I believe that in a few years they will have their 10%.

Although the news of the 970 coming out shortly for the PowerMacs is great, I wonder what is in store for the PowerBooks. If moto can really make a 2ghz G4 use no more than 12watts or whatever with that low k tech, would it not be a better chip for the PowerBooks than the 970?
Also, if apple is not planning on using the G4 any more, why would moto develop a new 2ghz version? I thought the G4 was mainly just for apple?
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post #56 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
no, it won't.

Why do you say that? Estimated SPECmark scores shown off by IBM last October put the 1.8GHz PPC970 at about ~950 int and ~1050 fp. The 3.0GHz Canterwood P4's already have breached 1200 in both SPEC int and fp. That's about a 20% lead Intel has right now and it will be boosted to ~30% with the 3.2GHz part this month. The new Canterwood P4 motherboards also have memory bandwidth of 6.4GB/sec (the PPC970 has no advantage there).

At IBM's Dhrystone ALU estimates, the PPC970 is even futhur behind.

If these benchmarks were worthless, IBM wouldn't have bothered with them. SPECmarks are an industry standard and do tell you what to expect.

http://www.specbench.org/osg/cpu2000...s/cpu2000.html

That aside, I do think the PPC970 is nothing but a good thing for Apple. It brings them a lot closer to Intel in performance than the current G4s.
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post #57 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:36pm
Spec doesn't account for SIMD units. Altivec is much more important to Macs than SSE2 is to Wintel.
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post #58 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:39pm
You know as long as I can do the things I like to do on my Apple that is all I need. A 800mhz 7455 seems fast enough for me. So as long as the 970 allows apple to remain competitive, does it really matter which chip is a little faster?
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post #59 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:41pm
I wish I could bet on this whole 970 at WWDC thing in Vegas. Can't you bet on just about anything there?

---

I wouldn't get too excited about this thing happening at WWDC. It's very possible, but still just rumors. Plus now we have people speculating that they will "leapfrog" Intel, and a price drop to boot. There is bound to be disappointment come the 23rd. Expectations are getting too high. Expect the worst, hope for the best.
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post #60 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:55pm
What will be will be...
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #61 of 376
6/7/03 at 9:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
You know as long as I can do the things I like to do on my Apple that is all I need. A 800mhz 7455 seems fast enough for me. So as long as the 970 allows apple to remain competitive, does it really matter which chip is a little faster?

I absolutely agree! Most people don't buy a new computer every 6 months, so the fastest computer in the world sitting on someone's desk ends up being not-the-fastest computer in the world a few months later. Speed only becomes a problem when your doing high end work for a living or if the computer that you sell are way behind. I would say 10-30% difference in certain tasks leaves enough room for arguing which is "fastest." When it gets to 50% slower, then you toss in the towel and agree the other guy is faster.
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post #62 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:00pm
and wheeee!

Mods, has my post been changed? May be I am tired but I thought I posted something different here.
PC Free Since 1999

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PC Free Since 1999

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post #63 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
no, it won't.

Yes, it will.

I like this line of arguing!
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One iMac G5, one iPod, many PCs.
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post #64 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:03pm
Another thought...If Apple plans on just putting their apple logo on the side of these new boxes, then the naming of the new computers can wait until the last moment. They may call them G5 just to give them a name, but until TV spots or other promotional materials are printed, the name could still change. Not that I car much what the name is, as long as they are better than what we have now. Most of Apple's names are boring as far as I'm concerned. Calling OSX 10.2 'Jaguar' was the best naming of a product Apple has come up with since the iMac.
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post #65 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally posted by jante99
and wheee!

In this thread at MacNN somebody says:

" Panther has many cool features. But the top 2 are 64-bit clean and stunning graphics.

Expect Quartz to get way more extreme. Think NeXT dimension times 4 <http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/History...030/page4.html>. Think graphics co-processor. To compress backing stores, damage repair being offloaded...

All I can add is that new G4 tower owners will be pleasantly surprised And the 970 owners will be positively thrilled. Of course, users of older hardware will bitch (time to upgrade guys!). If you are into Media of any sort, the new hardware is definitely worth the upgrade... Dual 2.2 GHz at sub two-grand... Also hold off on those 15" Powerbook purchases 'til the end of summer... you never know

Also look for Renderman coming back to its roots... in a very surprising configuration specifically built for movie industry. Will definitely SHAKE the industry

All in all a lot of hardware niceties for the high-end pro market. I feel really sorry for SGI.

More NeXT time ..."

Which almost makes me think there may be a little truth to the hardware rumors.

A rumor is a rumor, but the same rumor from two places is... a rumor.
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post #66 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Spec doesn't account for SIMD units. Altivec is much more important to Macs than SSE2 is to Wintel.

Absolutely! Add that and the lower power consumption, the pricing of the 970s, double and ? quad processors at reasonable prices and Apple has a short term advantage in the processor wars. Of course, AMD offers more of a challenge but let's not forget that the biggest part of the Windows experience is the OS, not the CPU or the BOX... and that says it all.
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post #67 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:13pm
i know nothing.
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post #68 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally posted by iBrowse
In this thread at MacNN somebody says:

Oh Lord rm is back. I thought those smug fantasies sounded familiar. Don't get your hopes up.
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post #69 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:19pm
maybe kinda interesting to note is that the front page sez:

inside info

instead of:

rumor

and that the title is a much larger font than the other threads


or it could all mean nothing


still haven't heard if this is from neworder or not...new is somebody i trust, so the rumor would carry more weight with me if we saw his name attached to this story


g
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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post #70 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally posted by - J B 7 2 -
Oh Lord rm is back. I thought those smug fantasies sounded familiar. Don't get your hopes up.

Ah, I don't spend a whole lot of time on MacNN so I had no idea who it was posting it. Thanks though. But I have learned not to get my hopes up, as I have no money anyway. I just enjoy jumping in the rumor threads for the ride.
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post #71 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:47pm
Continuing with the Australian theme (Vegimite)



No more incompetant Billy "Motorola" McMahon, bring on wild Gough "IBM" Whitlam!
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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post #72 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by iBrowse
Ah, I don't spend a whole lot of time on MacNN so I had no idea who it was posting it. Thanks though. But I have learned not to get my hopes up, as I have no money anyway. I just enjoy jumping in the rumor threads for the ride.

To be fair, quite a few people on MacNN put weight in what he says. I just personally think he's FOS. I just try not to get my hopes up these days. I'm still stinging from a particularly disapointing MWNY.
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post #73 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:50pm
Possible names:

GX
G10

Why not skip "5" entirely? Tie into OS X branding. And 10รท4 may actually be a fair approximation of the performance boost...
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post #74 of 376
6/7/03 at 10:58pm
Also, remember that the G5 moniker is closely associated with a product being terribly overdue. Not the kind of name to get people excited about after so much time has passed. GX / G10 emphasize the idea that this product is more than "incremental."
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post #75 of 376
6/7/03 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
Continuing with the Australian theme (Vegimite)



No more incompetant Billy "Motorola" McMahon, bring on wild Gough "IBM" Whitlam!

??????????????????????? What!!!! ?????????????????????

What is up with the song linked to smeagol!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!???????!?!?!?????
"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
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"People don't want handouts! People want hand jobs!" ~ Connecticut governor William O'Neil at a political rally, followed by riotous applause
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post #76 of 376
6/7/03 at 11:07pm
How about the Gstring? Or G-Spot? Does that represent how excited people will be about it's arrival?
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post #77 of 376
6/7/03 at 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol

What is up with the song linked to smeagol?

That song is the theme song for the Australian yeast spread otherwise known as "Vegimite". The song was written in the 1950s (or around there).

When beer is fermented, a black yeast goo sticks to the edges of the vats. This is scraped off, packaged in rather tiny glass jars by the good people at Phillip Morris (owners of Kraft) and sold as Vegimite.

Millions of Australians eat it every morning on toast and every lunchtime in sandwiches. Australians, having been raised on the stuff, love it. Everyone else in the world considers it to be outside the classification "food".

Barto
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

rotate zmze pe vizspygmsr minus four
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post #78 of 376
6/7/03 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
That song is the theme song for the Australian yeast spread otherwise known as "Vegimite". The song was written in the 1950s (or around there).

When beer is fermented, a black yeast goo sticks to the edges of the vats. This is scraped off, packaged in rather tiny glass jars by the good people at Phillip Morris (owners of Kraft) and sold as Vegimite.

Millions of Australians eat it every morning on toast and every lunchtime in sandwiches. Australians, having been raised on the stuff, love it. Everyone else in the world considers it to be outside the classification "food".

Barto

Phillip Morris also owns like half the cigarrette companies. But one of my teachers last semester was Austalian and he told me that when eaten how it is down there it's not that bad. He said it was just very salty so it was used sparingly.
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post #79 of 376
6/7/03 at 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
When beer is fermented, a black yeast goo sticks to the edges of the vats. This is scraped off, packaged in rather tiny glass jars by the good people at Phillip Morris (owners of Kraft) and sold as Vegimite.

mmmm...does a body good.

blech...

now how does that fit with the freaky thing and does it have anything to do with apple?
j00u = twh funnay.
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j00u = twh funnay.
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post #80 of 376
6/7/03 at 11:20pm
i have a jar of Vegemite in my cupboard. straight from Australia.
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