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eWeek article on Smeagol and Q37 - Page 8

post #281 of 402
Maybe we should continue with that line of questioning!

Moki, WWDC: animal, vegetable or mineral? We know there's an animal involved at least...
post #282 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Commodus
Assuming the large boxes from Apple are real at all, they're more likely to be PowerMacs. The iMac was updated too recently, and no Apple system besides the PowerMac (or any theoretical computer tower) would need that kind of a box.

That's assuming that there's only one device/system inside the box, of course.

You may be on to something with that last sentence. Those "large" boxes may contain "Buckets-o-iPods".

post #283 of 402
I feel like resurrecting the Nixon hearings and asking,

"Mr. Moki: What did you know and when did you know it?"

Moki: Would it be fair to say that the WWDC will not let us down?
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #284 of 402
Man, if only Apple had gotten its server act together a couple of years earlier...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/b...ection=general

...Now THAT is some "big iron!"
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post #285 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
You refer to a system with a seperate memory and system controller. This is impossible. A system controller is the chip which links the CPU and Memory and to other devices in the system. Hence, it is the "system" controller.

Oh come on. The system controller is a name. It can denote anything anyone wants. I used the name because many people are familiar with the name and can understand the symbolism.

Quote:

The Apple diagram, instead of refering to northbridge/southbridge renames them System Controller/IO Controller

And??? Northbridge/Southbridge is PC nomenculture, so Apple use their own. The name doesn't mysteriously change the function of the chip.

Quote:

Apple has chosen to put controllers for devices which would benefit from the decreased latency and increased bandwidth in the system controller. Ethernet, FireWire and the primary ATA bus.

As has every chipset creator on the planet. Integration has been the name of the game since about 1970, in case you haven't noticed.

Quote:

You're saying, in essence, "Let's have a basic system controller where everything apart from memory [and I'm assuming AGP] is in the IO controller(s)".

Yes.

Quote:

BUT there is simply no off-the-shelf chip for Apple's IO needs. Apple would have to use multiple PCI-based controller chips for FireWire 800, Gigabit Ethernet, USB 2, ATA, Audio, Bluetooth, serial ports etc. If you wanted a beige box, there would be fewer controllers of course. But we are talking about Power Macs, not beige boxen.

That we know about yet. How far off can it be? I just want Apple to concentrate on its strong points and use others where it makes sense. nVidia nForce 3 PRO is short Firewire 800, but is up Dolby 5.1 sound, serial ATA and built in RAID. How long until they fix that?

Quote:

This normally would be a low-bandwidth, high latency solution. Your idea is to build eDRAM into the system controller. However, the individual PCI controller chips combined with the eDRAM might end up as expensive as having 5 different non-Apple PCI-based IO controllers. I don't think anyone can state that one Power Mac solution would be cheaper than the other.

I specifically mentioned using eDRAM as a possability. There are many other things you can do with the extra space, including not using it.

Quote:

This leaves one question remaining: Why would you limit Apple's SMP horizons by distributing controllers in such a way? Your system would limit Apple to one or two CPUs, with the cost increasing exponentially as more are added. With seperate hypertransport-based companion chips, Apple could add however many chips they want, and not end up with more busses than CPUs (and more cost to the end user) in low end systems.
Barto

And? Where is 100% of Apple's market at the moment? If someone wants a 4 CPU system let Apple cater for it in a very high margin xServe based product. I have always been talking desktops, and have assumed that in a thread discussing desktops you would be too.

You find me a 4 CPU system that is not considerably more expensive than a similar 2 CPU system. You won't find one because greater than 2 is hard and expensive. You need significantly better infrastructure to do 4 and greater CPU systems well (i.e. not the Daystar toy). Thats why there are no white box 4 CPU systems. They are all systems from HP, Sun, IBM etc. Big systems vendors who have been creating these architectures for years and years. Yes it is simpler now, but still hard, and not a market Apple should enter lightly.
post #286 of 402
It seems relatively simple to me. "Heavy" refers to the speed bumped G4's to be announced.

In order to increase the clock from 1.42GHz to 1.6GHz the 7 lb. heatsink had to increase in weight to a svelt 30 lbs.

Hence, the reference to "hit the weight room".
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #287 of 402
heavy could be in reference to the all metal case of the new PM towers...no more plastic...

little nerd boys might actually develop some muscle moving their towers from home to the dorm...

(editors note: the above sentence should not in any way be viewed as a comment on any admin nor mod...especially not Brad, no, surely not...and don't call me shirley)

g
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
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post #288 of 402
Let the speculation continue(like it was fading). The "heavy" hint sounds more like big iron.

Could Apple just start shipping the 970s in the Xserves?

My newly updated Totally Speculative Scenario:
SJ introduces the "G5" Xserves and steep discounts on the G4 PowerMac line. No mention on when the "G5s" will go into the PowerMac line(that would kill the 10-15 monthly PowerMac sales).

That would suck though. \
post #289 of 402
if a single PPC 970 is introduced in the X serve and not in the tower, Apple will not sell anymore any towers.
If Apple is able to produce a mobo for an Xserve, i don't see wy they cannot produce a mobo for a tower. The reverse is also true.

Perhaps they will release both products altogether. The PPC 970 xserve can suit with the enigmatic Moki's description of too weightie for your house device ( i don't know many people who have a rack at home).
post #290 of 402
If Apple introduces/demoes(or mentions) anything with a 970 in it, sales of the current towers will suffer even more anyways. I agree that if the 970s can go into the Xserve now, there's no reason why they couldn't go into the towers now.

The only way sales of towers won't suffer(talk about an oxymoron) is if Apple/SJ avoids mentioning the 970s altogether and just talk about "future architectures" etc.

I wonder how much product(towers) is currently in the channels.
post #291 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
The only way sales of towers won't suffer(talk about an oxymoron) is if Apple/SJ avoids mentioning the 970s altogether and just talk about "future architectures" etc.

If there is no mention of the 970, Apple in general will suffer.
post #292 of 402
seeing as the previous thread was locked, I will post this here... the boxes are about the size of 3 of the current power mac boxes, which would give us about 20/30/40 power macs depending on size, (counting from the wraped pallet) awfuly low amount.

Assuming they are the new devices, Id "guess" there is around 600 "devices" total.
post #293 of 402
True. So the choice would be between the lesser of two evils. Demoing the 970s would be less "destructive" to the company as a whole than not mentioning the hopefully soon to come 970 machines.
post #294 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by thegelding
heavy could be in reference to the all metal case of the new PM towers...no more plastic...

This is the most logical explanation I've heard.
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post #295 of 402
yes, the only people that are concerned with the events of wwdc or even know about it, are us the hardcore, and the developers, and i guess the press but screw them. We and the developers aren't buying towers unless we absolutely need to right now cuz we think(know) that something's coming. There is no way a 970 announcement could hurt tower sales more than the current situation. Most people who are buying towers now, don't even know about the 970 in the first place. But the fact that stevenote will be broadcasted to apple stores means that they want the customers to know something. Apple needs to not only talk about the future but show us the future. Steve announces 970 machines, whenever they ship.. Preorders up the ass, people are excited about apples high-end again, more than makes up for a few g4 tower sales.
post #296 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
yes, the only people that are concerned with the events of wwdc or even know about it, are us the hardcore, and the developers, and i guess the press but screw them.

Hmm. I don't know about that.

Bad press=negative public info=fearmongering analysts=lower stock price
post #297 of 402
i guess that came out wrong but a 970 anouncement and/or demo regardless of when it ships will be good press for apple, its concrete proof of the future of apple. For f#$cks sake Steve give the people what they want already!
post #298 of 402
Well, with the amount of press(from all sources) that Apple always gets, news will spread fast. If the 970s are demoed expect whatever inventory is in the channels to be heavily discounted. I think that a large % of Apple users will hear the news of the new hardware in one way or another.
post #299 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
i guess that came out wrong but a 970 anouncement and/or demo regardless of when it ships will be good press for apple, its concrete proof of the future of apple. For f#$cks sake Steve give the people what they want already!

Agreed! Worst case scenario is Apple not mentioning the G5. followed by some analyst pretending he or she is in the know who starts blathering on how Apple failed to deliver.

Now I'm pretty convinced this won't happen. I'm suspecting the G5 will be shown and we'll all ogle as we've been dreaming of doing.
post #300 of 402
Thread Starter 
I'm not so sure Moki meant heavy as in poundage. I'm thinking more like, heavy, as in, "Far out, man, that new Zep album is HEAVY".

IF he did mean poundage, then the only explanation is a hulking xStation (666 tower for some ) This would be awesome, but not if it were the only 970 based desktop offered. WTF, keep the lame G4 Powermacs and only let rich folk in on the $4000 XStation? Not cool.
post #301 of 402
Macrumors: "Something is coming...."

Quote:
Discover the Future with the Apple

Germany Invites you to a [special or something] event in the heart of Europe.

Watch via satellite transmission the keynote of Steve Jobs for WWDC in San Francisco.

This will be an unforgettable event for audio, video, publishing, and media professionals. Expect some news that will exceed all your past expecations.

Be ready for a new computer era on 23.06.2003, starting at 6:00 PM in the ******.

picture of invitation:
invitation
post #302 of 402
So....the big tower would be Minas Morgul, right? Does that make the pro users evil? 666...hmmm, guess so.
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post #303 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I'm not so sure Moki meant heavy as in poundage. I'm thinking more like, heavy, as in, "Far out, man, that new Zep album is HEAVY".

IF he did mean poundage, then the only explanation is a hulking xStation (666 tower for some ) This would be awesome, but not if it were the only 970 based desktop offered. WTF, keep the lame G4 Powermacs and only let rich folk in on the $4000 XStation? Not cool.


Mmmm....would that Xstation be shipping with or without DapperDan version 1.0? 8)
post #304 of 402
Somehow my post found it's way into the wrong thread...weird.
post #305 of 402
Thread Starter 
Man you've got to get off this LOTR kick. The original Apple 1 allegedly sold for $666.
post #306 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by salty chips
Macrumors: "Something is coming...."

Be ready for a new computer era on 23.06.2003, starting at 6:00 PM in the ******.]

The begining of that sounded like your normal apple get ready for great stuff banter, but this last statement is well.. in the words of the great Keanu... Woh!

Or maybe my head is clouded with false hopes and exaggerations
post #307 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
I'm not so sure Moki meant heavy as in poundage. I'm thinking more like, heavy, as in, "Far out, man, that new Zep album is HEAVY".

LOL, i have a new sig now
post #308 of 402
...maybe the "heavy" thing means its based on big iron cuz the 970s aren't totally up to speed yet. Maybe this "heavy" Mac is an xStation based on the Power4+ IBM 6E3 Workstation.

That would be wicked cool. Maybe Apple could wrangle a 2 way model out the door for 'round $5k+.

Oooooohhhh.....ahhhhhhhh.......

Oh well, just grasping at straws. moki is such a tease.
post #309 of 402
Quote:
but this last statement is well.. in the words of the great Keanu... Woh!

Remember Apple's "Beyond the rumor sites. Way beyond." hype? (Was it the new iMac? Can't remember.) I just hope this is more than Apple's historical hype.
post #310 of 402
yea it was the imac2. But even though to us it wasnt amazing, it was a new version of a very important product that previously helped bring apple back from the grave. So the hype didnt live up, but the hype was for an important product to apple.
post #311 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
yea it was the imac2. But even though to us it wasnt amazing, it was a new version of a very important product that previously helped bring apple back from the grave. So the hype didnt live up, but the hype was for an important product to apple.

The iMac2 was 'way beyond' what some rumor sites were predicting. So I guess it comes down to individual interpretation.

There is speculation that Steve will demo the 970 and then it may be announced later, possibly at MWNY. What happens the 24th thru MWNY to tower sales? How can it be shown at Apple stores via web cast but not ship until Sept? (Assuming Apple streams it as stated somewhere at the Apple stores) Why have a patchwork OS (smeagol) to run a 970 in Sept, when Panther is rumored to be out a few weeks later in August? It will take a few weeks for shipments to arrive, just delay them a week or so and ship with Panther.

It just sounds to me like some of the times tables are off. Either Panther is far from being ready or the 970s are far from being ready.
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post #312 of 402
Oh come on. The system controller is a name. It can denote anything anyone wants. I used the name because many people are familiar with the name and can understand the symbolism.

Don't bullshit. I was correcting you, because the term system controller was incorrect in your context. And by "bullshit", I mean "You are a very nice person", because names can mean anything.

And??? Northbridge/Southbridge is PC nomenculture, so Apple use their own. The name doesn't mysteriously change the function of the chip.

That's what I'm saying. Different terms for the same chips.

That we know about yet. How far off can it be? I just want Apple to concentrate on its strong points and use others where it makes sense. nVidia nForce 3 PRO is short Firewire 800, but is up Dolby 5.1 sound, serial ATA and built in RAID. How long until they fix that?

The nForce 3 Pro won't work on Macs. The MCP might, but that's because it's a traditional southbridge. The nForce 3 is a single chip designed specifically for the Opteron.

By the time the PC manufacturers catch up to the technology that is in Macs now, Apple will be using newer technology not in future PCs or present Macs.

I specifically mentioned using eDRAM as a possability. There are many other things you can do with the extra space, including not using it.

Anything other than compensating for increased latency and decreased bandwidth would result in a Power Mac G5 as fast as the Power Mac G4.

And? Where is 100% of Apple's market at the moment? If someone wants a 4 CPU system let Apple cater for it in a very high margin xServe based product. I have always been talking desktops, and have assumed that in a thread discussing desktops you would be too.

You are making the mistake that Quad CPUs will always be rare, when infact much "noise" is being made about moving from powerful single CPUs to less powerful multiple CPUs. I'm talking about increasing future possibilities, you're talking about limiting them.

I tried to answer rationally and politely. Now I will say this: If ever I want a superficially powerful and cheap computer, I'll by a f***ing Dell, DUDE!

Barto
Self Indulgent Experiments keep me occupied.

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post #313 of 402
I just posted this in the WWDC thread, but since this thread is essentially the same...

You know I just thought of something. If Apple were NOT going to intro new hardware at WWDC wouldn't they just come out and say it? They did exactly that at Mac Expo Paris awhile back. It would be even easier to justify this time around as it is a "developer" conference. The press release would go something like this.

"Apple is looking forward to a great WWDC this year where we will showcase the stunning new OS X 10.3 Panther. Developers will receive advance copies to begin optimizing their software offerings for the new OS. As we intend to concentrate on this milestone software acheivment, we have no plans to introduce any new hardware products."

Steve knows the expectations have been sky high for weeks. If he wanted to throw cold water on the rumors he could. He's done it before, why not now???
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post #314 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
I just posted this in the WWDC thread, but since this thread is essentially the same...

Yes all of the threads are starting to converge from lack of new info.

It is hard for me to believe that there isn't going to be any new, significant hardware unveiled Monday and I think the Joz keynote during the next big event is the clincher for me), but maybe I'll convince myself to just hope that real buttons come back to the iPod and be pleasantly surprised by anything else.
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post #315 of 402
Can't sleep so I am going to allow myself to fully lapse into "Temporary Insanity" and throw a little more fuel on the fire.

What if the mysterious "large" boxes talked about, really are 19" eMacs. By what law is it stated that they must be CRT displays.

A few points
  • Rumors have existed for a while now, of a low cost 19" LCD presumed to be for an iMac
  • Points have been made though, that such a large screen would be too heavy for the articulating arm of the iMac. i.e an entire new articulating arm would have to be created (at some cost) for a single model.
  • What if instead of for the iMac, such a theoretical low cost display was for the eMac instead.
  • FNAC has marked the bottom end eMac on their website as "Not available or no longer available". This opens up the possibility of the higher models all moving down the price scale.
  • The current cost (US dollars) of the high end eMac is $1299.
  • The current cost of a 17" iMac is $1799 with its specialized base and expensive articulating arm.
  • In the PC market, stand alone 19" LCD displays are already available for under $700, and a lot of that cost is packaging and marketing.
  • Since a 19" model would have to have a new case anyway, what is to say that it could not incorporate a low cost LCD display instead of a heavy CRT? This would solve the weight problem. It would create a whole new perception of the eMac line as well. After all, sooner or later, LCD's or better, will be present througout all the lines. That seems to be the trend.

Again this is merely wild and insane speculation, but for a moment, let's open our minds to the possibilities. After all, why come to a rumors forum with a closed mind.

You are free to now tear apart all of my insane speculation and contemplations. But please give some good reasons for it.
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post #316 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Shaktai
[BWhat if the mysterious "large" boxes talked about, really are 19" eMacs. By what law is it stated that they must be CRT displays.
[/B]

What is an LCD eMac? The only difference between the eMac and iMac is the screen type. You are suggesting that Apple makes an eMac that's bigger (and better) than an iMac?
I don't think so.
A 19" iMac is a possibility to consider, though.
post #317 of 402
Shaktai
With TFT in an eMac what is the difference compared to an iMac??
The core of this occation is the migration to the IBM970 cpu and update of some core features of the motherboards. The natrual way to do this revisons are top down. I really do not see any point in make a major revison of the eMac and still keep it G4 and so on. The only reason would be to migrate the eMac to some kind of simplified iMac design with TFT screen and then at the same time bump the iMacs upwards. But this is not the time to scatter the focus



I do not believe in any "new era in personal computing", I do hope that the Towers take a huge leap forward both in performance and features. Servers are nice to migrate to 970 as well as they will not constrain the CPU aviability due to the low number of sales. A PB is possible as any 970 above 600 MHz is faster than the 1 GHz G4. For marketing reasons they hardly can replace a 1 Ghz CPU with a 700 MHz CPU even if it faster. They have to have it at at least 1GHz. I remember the mess when 250 MHz 603 performas were slower then 200 MHz 604E pro models
970 Towers, sure
970 Servers , why not
970 PB, that would be nice
Other hardware (exluding monitor keybord, mice etc) why the heck now?
post #318 of 402
The pallets were delivered, the stock room is crammed now and the large boxes have 4 smaller boxes inside of them... I mean they "might" have 4 smaller boxes inside of them if we had opened them. The boxes are 3'x3'x2' (roughly I did not measure them)
post #319 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by stalkerdeapplenut
The pallets were delivered, the stock room is crammed now and the large boxes have 4 smaller boxes inside of them... I mean they "might" have 4 smaller boxes inside of them if we had opened them. The boxes are 3'x3'x2' (roughly I did not measure them)

sorry I just want to clarify that THESE larger boxes may or may not contain, do or DON'T contain smaller bozes inside or CONTAIN other things in these SMALLER sized BOXES!. hmm is that clear? I hope so, but should say these are sweet looking... um boxes
post #320 of 402
you're going to be in so much trouble...
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