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eWeek article on Smeagol and Q37 - Page 3

post #81 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
Remember HAL in 2001 Space Odyssey? If we increment each letter in the alphabet we get IBM, which most everyone has seen by now. Now consider the Illudium Pu36 Explosive Space Modulator that Marvin the Martian was going to use to blow up the earth. If we take the 'u' to be a sound, increment the principal letter and number, and we get Q37. The 'u' sound is already in 'Q.'

I wonder who invents code names at Apple and if (s)he is smart enough. snoopy, your theory is great, but I think it takes a real talent to create such analogies, almost myths.
[Edit]: it just sounds too smooth to be true.
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post #82 of 402
I would just love to see a commercial where Smeagol (Panther beta) turns into Gollum (Panther Gold) and releases our heroic hobbits from the clutches of Mordorolla.*

Just think if they really convinced Peter Jackson to do some TV spots using Gollum cgi running on 970 ported Shake! It would also make for one awesome and well-timed Superbowl commercial after Return of the King opens.

*"Mordorolla" came from a thread on Ars.
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post #83 of 402
Quote:
And there are multiple points of view on any issue: oil infrastructure has greater military and economic value than the contents of a museum, and is typically located in non-urban environments and thus more easily defended against paramilitary activity. Either way, this isn't the place for this discussion.

Sigh. It's a good job I'm not a moderator, Programmer, otherwise I'd be hoiking yer bum over to General Discussion...

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #84 of 402
Quick question, LBB: What did your post (and posts like it) add to this thread?

I don't want to see any political posts below this line:

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post #85 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
I would just love to see a commercial where Smeagol (Panther beta) turns into Gollum (Panther Gold) and releases our heroic hobbits from the clutches of Mordorolla.*

Just think if they really convinced Peter Jackson to do some TV spots using Gollum cgi running on 970 ported Shake! It would also make for one awesome and well-timed Superbowl commercial after Return of the King opens.

*"Mordorolla" came from a thread on Ars.

Mordorolla. I love it!
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"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

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post #86 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by JBL
Anyway, I am pretty sure if you posted some meaty hints as to what we might expect on June 23, that would pretty much take over all the threads here.

okay. The eWeek article has more manure in it than a cow field. Don't believe the hype.
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post #87 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Sigh. It's a good job I'm not a moderator, Programmer, otherwise I'd be hoiking yer bum over to General Discussion...

Lemon Bon Bon

You're just out to get me, aren't ya LBB? Got a vendetta happenin' or somethin', don't ya?
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post #88 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by moki
okay. The eWeek article has more manure in it than a cow field. Don't believe the hype.

Aw man, are you going to make me go and read that article now? Geez.

Hmmm... "hype"? What hype? There's nothing in there that made me even blink ("at least" comparable performance to G4, need to recompile with GCC 3.2, some mysterious bus codenamed ApplePI, hardware out before Panther... what hype?)... be more precise moki, you're just making the muck in the field worse.
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post #89 of 402
post #90 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Hmmm... "hype"? What hype? There's nothing in there that made me even blink ("at least" comparable performance to G4, need to recompile with GCC 3.2, some mysterious bus codenamed ApplePI, hardware out before Panther... what hype?)... be more precise moki, you're just making the muck in the field worse.

Let's put it this way -- there is very little in that article that is true. We're seeing this a lot in the various rumour sites... rumours get repeated enough, and people believe that they are true.
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post #91 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by moki
Let's put it this way -- there is very little in that article that is true. We're seeing this a lot in the various rumour sites... rumours get repeated enough, and people believe that they are true.

Hmmm... okay...

1 ) Is there a PowerPC 970? Yes.
2 ) Will Apple use it? You yourself have implied that for over a year.
3 ) Will it happen soon? Within a couple of months seems doable.
4 ) Will WWDC demonstrate new hardware? In some form I expect it will, even if it isn't a product demonstration.
5 ) Will the 970 be at least as fast as the G4? Darn right it will.
6 ) Is there a bus codenamed ApplePI? Who cares.
7 ) Will there be a GCC 3.3 that includes a new instruction scheduler for the 970? Yep.
8 ) Will Panther contain 64-bit support? Hope so although it may not update all APIs to full 64-bit compliance.

The article didn't say much else, did it? Can you list the item numbers which are completely bogus?

Thanks Moki, I knew I could count on you.
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post #92 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by moki
Let's put it this way -- there is very little in that article that is true. We're seeing this a lot in the various rumour sites... rumours get repeated enough, and people believe that they are true.

So you're saying no PPC970 machines announced at WWDC.
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post #93 of 402
i think he's saying yes but in his opinion, the specs are being underestimated?
post #94 of 402
i wish moki would throw bigger bones!
post #95 of 402
Yea Moki, clear up some manure for us, we're tired or stepping in it.
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post #96 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by whoami
i wish moki would throw bigger bones!


dang....my eyes really misread that statement...had to re-read it three times...somehow my brain (the first two times) substituted "grow" for "throw" and thought, "dang, isn't a rather personal comment to be making on these boards"


g
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post #97 of 402
Quote:
Thank you for your cooperation.

I don't do politics, Amorph. They belong in General Discussion.

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #98 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I don't do politics, Amorph. They belong in General Discussion.

Lemon Bon Bon

actually politics belongs in AO


g
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post #99 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by thegelding
dang....my eyes really misread that statement...had to re-read it three times...somehow my brain (the first two times) substituted "grow" for "throw" and thought, "dang, isn't a rather personal comment to be making on these boards"


g

hahahhahahhaaa...
i didn't want that kind of insider information!
post #100 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by thegelding
dang....my eyes really misread that statement...had to re-read it three times...somehow my brain (the first two times) substituted "grow" for "throw" and thought, "dang, isn't a rather personal comment to be making on these boards"


g

Crap, just had my drink spout out my nose I laughed so hard....

Quote:
Originally posted by moki
Let's put it this way -- there is very little in that article that is true. We're seeing this a lot in the various rumour sites... rumours get repeated enough, and people believe that they are true.

Actually, there is a lot of info in the article. Maybe the speed of the 970 compared to the G4? The single 970 as opposed to dual? Smeagol and Q37 code names? Etc...Normally Mathew R is pretty good, but Moki is also very trustworthy... hmmmm, who to believe?
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post #101 of 402
Quote:
You're just out to get me, aren't ya LBB? Got a vendetta happenin' or somethin', don't ya?

I've only got a vendetta against Lemon Squeezers...

(Only gently pulling yer 'chain' for the two 'general comments' you've made of late. It's all I could find on an otherwise exemplary 'on-topic' track record. I guess you're right. I haven't seen that side to you before... But, I actually like it!

As for comments that 'contribute' to the actual thread. Dunno. The eWeek story is what? An interpretation? A journalistic slant? Y'know, there's a distinct negative/subdued tone to the eWeek story and many of the threads all of a sudden. Yet the Register story was different in feel again...working from the same source/info'? The 970 will come out. Won't be optimised until Panther. Er. Okay. But would I like huge bandwidth with Altivec and a higher mhz/performing computer with a cool new case in the meantime? Yes please.

Guess it's down to expectations. The 'G5' has taken on an almost 'saviour complex' to Mac folk. And given Moto's best efforts, who can blame them? The general belief is twice as fast...and if it doesn't do that people will be disappointed? But say it didn't right out the gates, I doubt Apple would release the 970 machines if performance was 'THAT' bad. So we get the rest in Sept's Panther release. What do we get in the meantime? 50%? 100% over a G4? 150%? 200%? Are any of those bad? That's better than several bumps of 5% here or 10% there with several 'Athlon'/Intel cpus? Surely even 50% would be a distinct improvement? But I'm betting it's going to be alot more than that.

And it was like that in the press before 'X' got Photoshop...then like that before we got Quark 6. Now Quark 6 is imminent what will the Mac press whine about? (In fact, when the 970 hits I won't be able to whine about the G4 anymore.)

I may retire to a Jellyfish colony and spit pips at the natives from my throne of pancakes...cooked nicely from the heat of a dual 2.2 gig 970 Whoo-hoo!

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #102 of 402
Quote:
actually politics belongs in AO

Okay. You got me fair and square there. (I'd hold my hands up if I had any...)

Erm. Is it just me...or did the eWeek article seem somewhat 'fumbling'? Is this the best Mathew has? Worst case scenario? Mac San Fran'? By then 0.09 970s? New York? I thought the 970 might debut then. But I didn't think that last year. Seybold? What if you say 'the fall'. Then surely by then?

1. 970 coming. Probably before 04 San Fran'.
2. 1.4-1.8. Probably.
3. New case. Probably.
4. Demo at WWDC..? Probably.
5. Behind closed doors? Why? (No 1.42 G4 Towers left in sig' amounts at retail level?) G4 sales maybe excruciatingly slow...unless than plan to move more with a Quark 6 bundle.
5. Shipping after? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends if they want to really hard sell the last 23 G4 Towers left in the supply chain.
6. Shipping within 2 months of WWDC? Well...didn't the G4? Aren't IBM more capable than Moto'? Didn't we hear 2nd half 2003? Sept' at latest.
7. If Panther is hitting Sept' and Apple release 970s 'now'...then I'd have thought any 10.2.7 version ships on 970s a couple of months before Sept. Shipping mid/late July?

Isn't it all about timing. I'd have thought the timing would be ripe about now.

I dunno. I thought the 'insider 'Cowboy' story had more backbone to it than the eWeek story....

Lemon Bon Bon
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post #103 of 402
whatever happens, we are all gonna be happy campers by the end of the summer. this fall is gonna be too fun for us! time to ditch the message boards and get to work and play! it's been how many years in the making?
post #104 of 402
Read between the lines Moki says eweek is off track and I agree. Why:-


Well lets suppose thqat we wern't getting the 970, lets assume we had a 1.4ghz G4 but with a 900mhz FSB what would that on it's own do to the performance?

Now substitute a 1.8ghz 970 with the FSB hyper-transport, Rio et all leave out the 64 bit optomisation... and do you really think this is going to have a similar performance to a G4-er no.

Yes don't believe the hype, work it out for yourself! If Clive Sinclair hadn't got there first Apple coud easilt have called the new PM's the QL's.

In the worlds of hans Solo..."Prepare to shift to lightspeed".
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post #105 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Addison
Well lets suppose thqat we wern't getting the 970, lets assume we had a 1.4ghz G4 but with a 900mhz FSB what would that on it's own do to the performance?

Umm yeah. A new stealth G4 coming from the company that can't even get their CPU's to a respectable process size. Of course, even though Moto mentioned previous G4 upgrades for the sake of keeping their investors happy, they probably decided to keep quite about this just for Apple's sake.

Quote:
Now substitute a 1.8ghz 970 with the FSB hyper-transport, Rio et all leave out the 64 bit optomisation... and do you really think this is going to have a similar performance to a G4-er no.

By "Now" here, I think you mean after Apple unveils its magical 900MHz FSB bus machine, they will come out with a new 970? Which 64 bit optimization are you talking about? Hardware or software? In my world the 970 PPC ISA supports 64 bit integer operations. How many bits are in the largest integer for the PPC 970 ISA in your world? Maybe you meant software optimization, but that of course was for Panther which will not be coming out soon. Either way, you are a strange man who needs to think more clearly about what you write before you write it. This isn't chat. Perhaps by "optomisation" you mean that the 970 box will look nicer than previous G4 boxes (since you are never going to get it anyway, I'll explain: "opto" is the Greek prefix for vision, hence optics, optometrists, etc. Also, the Greeks were some ancient people from whom we have received the traditions of the Socratic method and toga parties).

Moki doesn't need your help- he is quite capable of giving his own subtle clues (which I rather like reading).

Quote:
Yes don't believe the hype, work it out for yourself! If Clive Sinclair hadn't got there first Apple coud easilt have called the new PM's the QL's.

Michael Dell, is that you?

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In the worlds of hans Solo..."Prepare to shift to lightspeed".

Did you know that two of the problems associated with continuous use of speed (chrystal meth, aka uppers) are paranoia and a complete inability to phrase one's own thoughts?
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post #106 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Umm yeah. A new stealth G4 coming from the company that can't even get their CPU's to a respectable process size. Of course, even though Moto mentioned previous G4 upgrades for the sake of keeping their investors happy, they probably decided to keep quite about this just for Apple's sake.

Congratulations on spectacularly missing the point and tossing entirely unwarranted insults. Addison was questioning eweek's implication that the 970 machines would have roughly the same per-cycle performance as a G4. As an argument against this theory, he considers a *hypothetical* (you know, "not real") G4 processor with greatly improved bandwidth and speculates quite reasonably that it would have better performance. Add in the 970's architectural improvements (most notably its very deep out-of-order execution) and it's logical that the 970 will perform substantially better than the G4 without any specific optimizations.

Learn to read and understand before spouting off.
post #107 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by whoami
whatever happens, we are all gonna be happy campers by the end of the summer. this fall is gonna be too fun for us! time to ditch the message boards and get to work and play! it's been how many years in the making?

I'm sure that some whiners will show up 1-┬Ásec after Stevie tells it like it is and is gonna be.
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post #108 of 402
3.1416 thank you.
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post #109 of 402
Okay, What the heck. None of us really knows what is coming, so we might as well just make our best guess. This is a rumors forum right?

* Power PC 970 introduced at WWDC.
* Availability? Immediatly or within 2 weeks for Single processor machines. Probably 1.4 and 1.8 ghz.
* Dual processors to follow within another 2-3 weeks.
* Initial OS will be some kind of patched version of 10.2.x. Doesn't really matter what it is called.
* Panther will follow with improved compiler and other overall system enhancements plus 64 bit capability.
* Performance? I won't attempt to detail all the possible scenarios. It will vary along with the task. Worst case scenario is maybe 1.25 times compared to a same megahertz G4. Best case Scenario is maybe 3 to 3.5 times for a combination of System bus, floating point and Altivec all working at optimum. Overall average maybe around 1.7 to 2.2 times for most daily operations.
* Powerbook 970? Possible, but I am still doubtful. Not for another 2-3 months.
* X-Serve 970? Not for 2.3 months
* 970 for iMac, eMac, etc? Not till 2004.
* New Motorola G4 chips? Doubtful.
* The day after WWDC keynote, the rumor boards will have a few disgruntled people complaining of how Apple held back and is doomed or complaining that they didn't come in at under $1000. Most of us will be trying to figure out how we can buy one or more or out maxing out our credit cards again.

I've never been right yet, so I have a perfect track record and am due for a change.

There's my rumor predictions and I am standing pat on them now until WWDC or until Apple/S.J. actually says something definitive.
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post #110 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Okay. You got me fair and square there. (I'd hold my hands up if I had any...)

Typing with our nose, are you?

Gad, I'm so off topic.

Hmm...okay, I think we'll see a high-end and mid-range 970 in the lowto middlin' Ghz range. G4 for the low end.

(here's a question: If 10.3 is released at some point for new PM's, does apple have to have separate development forks for the 970 and the older G3/G4 families to maintain compatibility? Anyway, to continue...)

New case. Beta Panther. However, I think that the machines will be a preorder for a few weeks until Panther goes gold. Then, the supply of machines that Apple's been stockpiling will get nice clean Panther images blown into them as they rocket out the door.

2bits off the top of my head.
post #111 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by tsukurite
Hmm...okay, I think we'll see a high-end and mid-range 970 in the lowto middlin' Ghz range. G4 for the low end.

(here's a question: If 10.3 is released at some point for new PM's, does apple have to have separate development forks for the 970 and the older G3/G4 families to maintain compatibility? Anyway, to continue...)

New case. Beta Panther. However, I think that the machines will be a preorder for a few weeks until Panther goes gold. Then, the supply of machines that Apple's been stockpiling will get nice clean Panther images blown into them as they rocket out the door.

2bits off the top of my head.

I wonder where you people even think up this kind of stuff. I'm sure you read the forums, but just because you know what a 970 is doesn't make you qualified as an armchair pundit. You say Panther will go gold "in a few weeks"? Then Apple should have seeded it to developers already! They haven't, and there's no way they'd have a beta->gold cycle in the span of a few weeks. No, Panther won't ship until September at the very earliest with the semi-public seed this late. They're missing the school refresh cycle, and they know it. That's what Smeagol is for.

And G4's at the low end - I doubt that Apple would have any product line with the same name and two different types of processors. It's not happened in recent memory, and I can't forsee any reason why they would make such a boneheaded maneuver. Apple's all about product differentiation, and mixing and matching G4s and 970s completely destroys that.

And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>
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post #112 of 402
One thing I'm curious to find out about, and that I haven't seen much said about, is how do we think Apple will be able to put the 64 bit capability of the 970 to use in ways other people haven't thought of yet? Have forward thinking Apple engineers found ways to to take advantage of that extra bit bandwidth in normal OS operation?
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post #113 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma

And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>

How come you get to make the "rules?"
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post #114 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Karma
I wonder where you people even think up this kind of stuff. I'm sure you read the forums, but just because you know what a 970 is doesn't make you qualified as an armchair pundit. You say Panther will go gold "in a few weeks"? Then Apple should have seeded it to developers already! They haven't, and there's no way they'd have a beta->gold cycle in the span of a few weeks. No, Panther won't ship until September at the very earliest with the semi-public seed this late. They're missing the school refresh cycle, and they know it. That's what Smeagol is for.

And G4's at the low end - I doubt that Apple would have any product line with the same name and two different types of processors. It's not happened in recent memory, and I can't forsee any reason why they would make such a boneheaded maneuver. Apple's all about product differentiation, and mixing and matching G4s and 970s completely destroys that.

And a warning to the rest of you: no armchair pundit who doesn't think through their posts is safe <evil snicker>

Got me. I hadn't thought about seeding to developers. My bad. As for G4/G5 coexisting...just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean it won't. Apple suffered from "not invented here" syndrome for a number of years, but they learned from the problems that created. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned there. Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't or won't. Can you say Pro-sumer?

Lastly, just because you disagree with my post, doesn't make you smarter, or better or in any way more significant. In this game, we are all ( with a few exceptions ) 'armchair pundits'. Given your nic, I'm fairly surprised by the acidity of your response. However, turn about is fair play. Don't be surprised if you are the one getting flamed next time. Disagree if you want, poke holes in lines of thought, but be nice about it. \

And now I'm done talking about it and won't address it again.

2bits
post #115 of 402
Moki is sandbagging
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post #116 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by Aphelion
Moki is sandbagging

cool! 8)
post #117 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by jante99
How come you get to make the "rules?"

Because he is a smart and reasonable guy. Intelligent discussion is far more entertaining than rampant speculation.
post #118 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by tsukurite
Lastly, just because you disagree with my post, doesn't make you smarter, or better or in any way more significant. In this game, we are all ( with a few exceptions ) 'armchair pundits'. Given your nic, I'm fairly surprised by the acidity of your response. However, turn about is fair play. Don't be surprised if you are the one getting flamed next time. Disagree if you want, poke holes in lines of thought, but be nice about it. \

It isn't the disagreement that makes him more interesting to read. It is that he thought things through and used logic to predict the future.
post #119 of 402
All right. I think all this rumor nonsense has gone to our heads. No need to insult one another because someone said that the gold master of Mac OS 10.3 would come a few months sooner than what another thinks. Nobody knows what will happen (and those that do won't tell), but some are more in tune with tech in general and can give the rest of us 'armchair pundits' some advice in which way things may go.

(back on topic) As for me, I'm just trying not to get too excited about all this. I'm sure many of you can remember MWNY '01 when we were all so sure that the G5s were coming. \

If I don't have any expectations, I can't be disappointed, right?
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post #120 of 402
Quote:
Originally posted by bauman
All right. I think all this rumor nonsense has gone to our heads.

Well, it has gone to some people's heads. There is always a build up before an event like this and inevitably some people wind up expecting far too much. December 2001 is a prime example -- nobody around for that one should fall victim to that again. Remember the madness, reset your expectations, calm down, and wait for Steve to turn on the RDF.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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