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post #81 of 209
6/21/03 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by musicaltone
Yes, it 'may' be an Alpha but OS 'errors' would at least show up in evry app or window. Not in some and but not in others. The OS doesnt draw on a separate set of rules depending on which window it is showing. If an option is highlighted a certain way like int he Systems Preference pane bar then it will be highlighted in the same way in other OS panes, like 'activity monitor'. I think it is a load of tosh.

You are assuming all the applications are finished, it's just the core OS that is alpha.

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post #82 of 209
6/21/03 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by Ari
Why has the "Macintosh HD" been renamed Xdrive? Is this Apple's new default name or the preference of a particular user? It sounds ridiculous.

99% of Mac home users have their own hard drive names.
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post #83 of 209
6/21/03 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by peharri
Does the discussion above about the Startup Disk preference no longer being required, except possibly for switching between multiple OS Xs, means that we've heard somewhere that Panther only works on Macs incapable of running Mac OS 9?

No, it's just a misunderstanding. This appears to be Panther running on a TiBook, which is still capable of running Mac OS 9.

BTW, noticed another couple of new things:
- proper separators on menus
- funny spark thing next to "In" mailbox (connected/disconnected?)
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post #84 of 209
6/21/03 at 6:48am
the finder bothers me, i am not sure why there would be a button to 'open'...and all that other crap.

the windows XP style progress bar or whatever in teh iChat video makes me wonder


the thing that bothers me most is the '+' in teh mail app sidebar...it look so out of place there, like it should be on the righthand side instead of on the left...its in a shadow for the love of god in a shadow!


of course all this arn't saying these are definatly fake, just seem unappleish to me, then again i have slightly higher standards then apple recently (or at least with them and the G4 )
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post #85 of 209
6/21/03 at 6:53am
this is a work in progress. similart "fake" comments were made when Jaguar first appeared. monday will confirm.
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post #86 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:01am
dundaine18 - The System Preferences window just doesn't have focus. You'll see a similar difference between the "current" window you have up on your OS X desktop now (well, assuming it isn't Safari...) (which has coloured buttons... well, assuming you haven't selected the Graphite appearance) and the other windows on your screen.

Gargoyle - that's the "Expose in action" screen. What Expose appears to do, given the screenshot and the description, is put all the windows on your desktop, shrunk, so you can see them all. Presumably when you click on a window the desktop reverts to normal, and the window you clicked on is brought to the front.

Sounds potentially very useful.
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post #87 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:14am
There are many reasons why Startup disk is still a necessary feature. First (as previously stated) the user may have multiple HD's. Second, what about those of us with comps still running OS9? I realize Apple is abandoning it, but there still needs to be a viable way for those of us with OS9 capable Macs to boot into OS9 if necessary (though I have no reason to). There are more but I'll leave it at that...
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post #88 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:29am
I would definitely hold off on trying to explain why you think these are fake, mostly just for your own sakes... The ones in the Mac OS X forum I am not too sure about though. I did notice however that in the Finder shot showing labels and stuff, it uses the (until this screen shot) unique to iCal style of highlighting something in a list. The newer look of flat colors for highlighting stuff seen on the Apple site and iCal can be seen in a few places here.
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post #89 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:32am
How long does Apple plan on keeping Classic alive? I thought when SJ said he was killing off OS9 that would eventually include Classic mode as well. I do like that Printing is now in System Prefs, seems more logical than Apps>Utilities>Print Centre.
Anyone seen the screenshots on Spymac? I think a few are a bit different. I could be wrong though, I'm still on my first cup of coffee so my noodle is still a bit addled by sleep.

Edit: How inappropriate of me, I mentioned Spymac without kindly providing a link to said screenshots. Well, blah, it's early. Here it be: http://www.spymac.com/gallery/showga...=1&ppuser=1946

Edit-Edit: Crud, it is early, Spymac screenshots are all the same. Second cup of coffee needed.
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post #90 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:34am
why xdrive?
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post #91 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by peharri
dundaine18 - The System Preferences window just doesn't have focus. You'll see a similar difference between the "current" window you have up on your OS X desktop now (well, assuming it isn't Safari...) (which has coloured buttons... well, assuming you haven't selected the Graphite appearance) and the other windows on your screen.

hmm, maybe, but I think it is weird if you have no stripes in active windows but stripes if they are in background. doesn't make sense at all to me.

sure, maybe that inconsitency (sp?) is because of the relatively early development of panther, to me, this is a bit fishy... anyway, we'll know soon enough...

btw I'd prefer a lighter tone of grey than the une they are supposedly using now. it looks almost a bit too dark to me...
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post #92 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by axdigital
why xdrive?

It's what the guy named his own HD. Nothing more.

Why is this such a point on contention????
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post #93 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by dunedain18
hmm, maybe, but I think it is weird if you have no stripes in active windows but stripes if they are in background. doesn't make sense at all to me.

Well, what stripes there are are fairly subtle. Bear in mind that in Jaguar, inactive window title-bars are also semi-transparent. This works, in part, because of the stripes - if there weren't any, the words on the titlebars would become very difficult to read when overlaid across other titlebars and/or text. The stripes force certain pixels of each word to be less suseptable to blending in with the background.

I can see Apple removing stripes from active (non-transparent) titlebars and leaving them in, more subtlely and with slightly less transparency, for inactive titlebars. Otherwise they'd be forced to drop the entire idea of transparent inactive titlebars if they dropped striping completely.
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post #94 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:48am
Brushed metal "Finder", seems unlikely.
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post #95 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally posted by Clive
Brushed metal "Finder", seems unlikely.

I believe it said that it was the new Finder using the brushed metal appearance, as if it is an option.
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post #96 of 209
6/21/03 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by iBrowse
I believe it said that it was the new Finder using the brushed metal appearance, as if it is an option.

But do any of Apple's apps have that option now? I though the whole mantra was "stay away from themes"?

Also, the menu with the colour labels in it seems to have a horizontal divider mising above "move to trash".

I can't see them removing title bar stripes and leaving them in elsewhere.
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post #97 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:33am
Assuming these screen shots are real, 10.3 looks a little dull all up to me.

The new finder really looks like XP's finder. It looks like Apple just copied Microsoft. And it looks wrong for some reason - too much white space on the left and at the top. Really odd.

I was hoping that if Apple brought back labels, they'd do something more than just colours. Like small images attached to folders - like fire for "hot", ice for cold, that sort of thing. Boring.

The only interesting thing looks like expose. But the description sounds pretty useless. If instead you can drag something from one application, with the mouse button down go to a corner, see all the app windows, mouse over an app for a second, and that app becomes the front most, so you can drop the object, then it would be useful - and an alternative to a shelf many of us having been wanting for a long time. But if all it is doing is letting you choose the window, big deal.

I'm hoping this is either a very old build, or a fake.
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post #98 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:35am
What I don't understand is why Apple seems to be consistently screwing around with the UI of the operating system. One of the hallmarks of the OS before X was how consistent it was from update to update - Apple added functionality, but kept the wrapper basically the same.

With every major upgrade and application release from Apple it seems the concept of UI consistency has been thrown out the window. So much for the great idea of an OS-wide style (the Mac HIG).

I for one think the new finder looks like sh** with totally incongruous crap all over the place. Yo, Apple: fix the problems with the Finder first before you start revamping the look and feel.
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post #99 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:35am
I agree about the finder... too M$, too unintuitive. Why not leave those folders in the toolbar where they belong?
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post #100 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:37am
umm..
How do you select those "dots" for labels?

I don't think the current menu manager can even do a horizontal layout like that, and there would be no reason to make a new manager just for the Finder ( mainly becuase that interface makes no sense!). A design like that requires extra work to create a bad interface, so I highly doubt "it's just an alpha build."

But who knows ... everyone seems to be just excepting these shots.
More scrutiny please.
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post #101 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally posted by woudstock
umm..
How do you select those "dots" for labels?

I don't think the current menu manager can even do a horizontal layout like that, and there would be no reason to make a new manager just for the Finder ( mainly becuase that interface makes no sense!). A design like that requires extra work to create a bad interface, so I highly doubt "it's just an alpha build."

But who knows ... everyone seems to be just excepting these shots.
More scrutiny please.

And with the colour label menu, it has the words "Color label:" above it. Seems like a bad UI - that would appear as a menu, but you couldn't click it...

Beginning to think fake more and more. A shame though, as expose, as I suggested it should work, would be killer. Not as it has been described though.
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post #102 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by knee
What I don't understand is why Apple seems to be consistently screwing around with the UI of the operating system. One of the hallmarks of the OS before X was how consistent it was from update to update - Apple added functionality, but kept the wrapper basically the same.

With every major upgrade and application release from Apple it seems the concept of UI consistency has been thrown out the window. So much for the great idea of an OS-wide style (the Mac HIG).

Be patient. Apple is simply trying to perfect Aqua. It is so much more complex than Platinum that it has taken quite some time to work out the various problems. The numerous changes may be annoying, but they are worth it.
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post #103 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
You are assuming all the applications are finished, it's just the core OS that is alpha.

Barto


I wondered about that because it looked weird to have the windows in the finder metal but not the menu bar.


I like the metal look as an option. I don't dislike Aqua I just get really tired of it.
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post #104 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:46am
I actually like the brushed metal look. ESPECIALLY with safari! I think it looks awesome with brushed metal!

although, i DO NOT [from the preview shots] like the finder being brushed metal.

... time will tell
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post #105 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by ducasi

. Not much different in Mail:
- "+" icon for new mail folder
- New "Compose" icon - old one was too difficult to hit.

Actually, I was hoping for a Safari style brushed metal interface and icons.

Also hope there is httpmail protocol as well for Hotmail and yahoo mail support.

I don't know about brushed metal Finder though...
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post #106 of 209
6/21/03 at 8:50am
Fake.

The odd-colored title bars don't work for me; the toned-down pinstripes do.

Note in the 'iChat' screenshot that the selection around the 'video' on the toolbar is not symmetrical about the icon; it is one pixel off.

Also note in the Finder screenshot that the back/forward combo button is labeled 'Back' and is not centered with respect to the button it labels.

The 'View' is also uncentered.

There are all kinds of other minute spacing details... FAKE.

Do like the toned-down aqua stripes though. Wouldn't mind seeing that throughout.

The 'Macintosh Desktop Experience' bit seems a bit much, as well. Especially considering the introduction of what appears to be a completely new paradigm (as shown in the Finder shot)... which is completely the opposite of the 'Macintosh Desktop Experience' of old.


in short: FAAAAAAAAAAKE.
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post #107 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally posted by woudstock
More scrutiny please.

Call me crazy but we could just hold our breaths for two days and then get the real story from the horse's mouth. But I suppose that's not what AppleInsider is about, eh?
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post #108 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:13am
also, they really need to figure out if they're going to shoot their shots in smooth AA or subpixel


if there's a new finder icon (in the dock), why has the finder icon on the (misnamed, by current standards) About the Finder window not been changed?

Especially if someone's gone to the trouble to code in 'The Macintosh Desktop Experience'...



FAAAKEEEEEEE.
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post #109 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally posted by knee
What I don't understand is why Apple seems to be consistently screwing around with the UI of the operating system. One of the hallmarks of the OS before X was how consistent it was from update to update - Apple added functionality, but kept the wrapper basically the same.

With every major upgrade and application release from Apple it seems the concept of UI consistency has been thrown out the window. So much for the great idea of an OS-wide style (the Mac HIG).

I for one think the new finder looks like sh** with totally incongruous crap all over the place. Yo, Apple: fix the problems with the Finder first before you start revamping the look and feel.

Guys - its a freakin Alpha. Even if it is a build just from this past week - its ALPHA! That's when developers screw around trying to see how things work and fit.

Sheesh. Some of you people seem to think that developers have it all figured out before they write any code. Sometimes, you have to WRITE the code to figure it out.

And who knows how early of an alpha this is!
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post #110 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:20am
We'll see.
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post #111 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by long AAPL
Overall I like the quick silver look and for the most part what I've seen, but if this is all we get, I'll be kinda disappointed. I expected this to be BIGGER than Jaguar. What's the deal with censoring iChat. There must be some pretty kick a$$ features they're hiding to make the "Stevenote" at least somewhat exciting.

I'm pretty sure they just censored iChat so that it wouldn't display their account information. Nothing like exposing yourself and you buddies to Apple's legal wrath.

Unlike other people, I kind of like the metal look. So sue me, I have no taste. But especially if the new towers have a metal finish I think these screen shots look pretty sharp.
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post #112 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:49am
FInally, the long-awaited Panther leak! I don't think these shots are fake, just an early build of Panther. (Either that or Panther is isn't as far along as we thought.) It just introduces too many new ideas (Exposé especially) and little laborious interface details (combining system preferences to make it more compact, "options" button in the new Finder to make contextual menus easier for newbies ).

Unless there's some very enterprising interface designer/hoaxer out there -- but why bother, two days before Panther is about to be previewed?

Anyway. Some really interesting stuff there. Reduced pinstripes and optional brushed metal sounds just about right. Exposé sounds great; it's what I've been pining for over two years now. Labels menu looks diasppointing -- I can only hope this the beginning of the much cooler metadata system. The new Finder.... looks really unfinished. Some promising ideas there, especially if the Search field is combined with a killer new instantly searchable filesystem improvements... I don't quite get how it works though. Where does the pane to the left showing drives and network go if you're using Column view? The new Finder definitely takes a page from XP, too, but XP isn't wholly evil; there some very good ideas in XP's Windows Explorer, buried under all the marketing nonsense, cartoon characters, and exasperating overhelpfulness.
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post #113 of 209
6/21/03 at 9:53am
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post #114 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:07am
Oh, I think I get it. The left-hand pane in the new Finder is always present to show you where you are: your HD, on a network, another shared folder, iDisk, etc. That's an issue I keep running into; have to check the path to remember where I am. Takes up a bit of room, I guess, but combined with configurable favorites at the bottom of the pane it seems like a good idea.

Does seem like it'd be somewhat clunky and confusing with Column View, though, no....?

Speaking of which. I'd love to see a screenshot of Column View in Panther. I'm dying to see how they're going to add the ability to sort by date modified and keep it clean. Same w/ Open/Save dialogs.
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post #115 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:11am
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post #116 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:13am
Not sure why people don't like the finder. If you look at it, it's the same as every other iApp. Look at iTunes, you have your playlists on the left, you highlight them and get a listing on the right, same as this finder shot. They're just making everything consistant.

The only difference is the finder has much larger icons than iTunes, et al. But it works just the same. Me thinks that this is how they'll introduce the "smart playlists" for the finder.
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post #117 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by Apple Legal

Oh come on Sue .... all's fair in love and war (and rumors)

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post #118 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally posted by vitaflo
Not sure why people don't like the finder. If you look at it, it's the same as every other iApp. Look at iTunes, you have your playlists on the left, you highlight them and get a listing on the right, same as this finder shot. They're just making everything consistant.

The only difference is the finder has much larger icons than iTunes, et al. But it works just the same. Me thinks that this is how they'll introduce the "smart playlists" for the finder.

I completely agree. I think the Finder is something of a sacred cow for people, but if the filesystem improvements for Panther are true, the interface has to adjust to reflect those changes.

I do wonder if they've gone the Siracusa route toward seperating the file-browser-based and spatital navigation of the Finder... It's interesting to note, too, that one of rumors discussed the Finder being "very extensible". I can totally seeing Apple saying, "look, we don't think spatial-only navigation is the future, but if you disagree, go ahead and write an extension for it."
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post #119 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:24am
On the left hand side of the Finder screenshot it show what disks are mounted. One of these is an Install Internet Explorer .dmg. I didn't think a .dmg would be recognized as a mounted volume unless it had been opened. Of course, I could be mistaken.
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post #120 of 209
6/21/03 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally posted by vitaflo
Not sure why people don't like the finder. If you look at it, it's the same as every other iApp. Look at iTunes, you have your playlists on the left, you highlight them and get a listing on the right, same as this finder shot. They're just making everything consistant.

The only difference is the finder has much larger icons than iTunes, et al. But it works just the same. Me thinks that this is how they'll introduce the "smart playlists" for the finder.

I agree with you, the Finder looks to be one of those items that is hard to judge by picture alone. One of those things you'll need to play with to get a feel for it.

Doesn't seem like it's that bulky either with the column. I have my screen at 1280x1024 and the graphic only takes up a quarter of the space.

One of the things I don't like, and I have to remind myself it's only a Beta (alpha, whatever it is), are the labels below the navigation buttons. Especially the label "back" which seems off centered below both the back/forward buttons.

I'm sure a lot will be cleaned up. I wonder if it uses the WebOjects for it's display.

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