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Finally an interesting G5 story

post #1 of 441
Thread Starter 
As posted from <a href="http://www.macrumors.com" target="_blank">http://www.macrumors.com</a>

The following information is from an unconfirmed source. As such, authenticity is always uncertain, but due to the content of the piece, was felt to be of sufficient interest for publishing. Take, as with all rumors, with an appropriate amount of skepticism.

What happened to Motorola's G5?

Apple had fully working prototype machines over a year ago, and Motorola was set to go into volume production early in 2002. On December 10, Chris Galvin phoned Steve Jobs announcing that the G5 will be delayed for at least 3 months due to glitches in its 0.13 micron process, which resulted in very low yields, and chips malfunctioning after a very short period of time. On December 17, Motorola announced to Apple that the G5 was delayed for at least 6 months, and then on February 25th Steve Jobs received a bombshell announcement that Motorola was ceasing development on the G5 indefinitely because it was making drastic cuts on R&D, and its main market is not desktop processors, but rather embedded processors. Days later, Apple reclaimed all its test boxes from key developers. Motorola instead has chosen to eke out as much performance as it can out of its G4 processors.

Where does this leave Apple?

During the G4 fiasco, Apple began looking to IBM for its next generation processor. In the fall of 2000, IBM assembled its 970 development team at the request of Apple. The objective was to have the performance of the Power 4, at a much lower cost. IBM also saw potential in this chip for its linux solutions. IBM began delivering Apple engineering samples of the 970 in May of this year, about the time the 970 was taped out. Apple has numerous working prototypes, and will begin to send them to key developers later this month.

How does this fit in to Apple's desktop and server roadmap?

Apple is in for another G4 drought in early 2003, whereby Motorola may not be able to push the G4 above 1.3 Ghz, which would be a paltry 50 Mhz speed bump with the upcoming 7457 G4. Right now, 7457 G4 yields above 1.3 Ghz are poor, as Motorola still has problems with their 0.13 Micron process IBM expects to be shipping the 970 in quantity early in Q3 of next year, in which time Apple will unveil the new pro desktops. The most likely introduction date is a Macworld NY keynote announcement, and if that does not materialize, Seybold will be the venture. Both the pro desktops and Xserve will not go much beyond 1.3 Ghz, though 1.5 Ghz may materialize should Motorola be able to come through, even though they might be a prototype version like the current 1.25Ghz version that is now shipping. The new Xserves will also have ATA 133, and will come with drive sizes up to 320GB (Maxtor), giving a total of 1.2 Terabytes.

How will these machines be branded?

Many people were expecting that Apple would be branding the 970 as the G5. This is quite a point of contention at Apple right now among the marketing people. The 970 is truly not a 5th generation processor, because the Power 4 is IBM's 4th generation processor, or if you would call it, a second generation 64-bit processor. No decision is expected until around WWDC.

What processors will Apple use in future generations of Macs?

Apple will stay with PowerPC for at least two more generations. Currently in development is the 980 processor, which is a single core variant of the upcoming power 5, which has VMX, which is due at the same time as the Power 5 in Q3 2004. It will feature fast path technology, which is similar to Intel's rapid execution unit to take over tasks that software currently handles more slowly. It will have simultaneous multi threading, which allows one chip to function as two. All future Power series processors beginning with the Power 5 will also have VMX. The 990 successor will appear in Q1 2006, and will be built on a 65nm process.

Consumer macs will remain with Motorola for 2003. In 2004, it is uncertain whether Motorola will produce the 7457RM G4, which will top 2Ghz, and feature new bus topology, and Rapid IO. It is essentially what the G5 was intended on being, except being scaled back in some respects.

What about rumors of OS X on Intel?

Marklar is even more of a going concern than ever. Contrary to circulating rumors, it is not meant to be a Power PC exit strategy. Rather, it is intended to be offered to X86 users when Apple sees market conditions being fit for it. What it means by this is regarding Intel's Lagrande technology, and Microsoft's Palladium technology. Apple intends on releasing OS X on Intel, when consumer dissatisfaction falls to an all time low for Microsoft when users become restricted to what they can do on their PC's due to Lagrande and Palladium. Likely it will be released in the event that Microsoft chooses to stop developing for the Mac platform altogether.

What new products can we expect?

An eight way 2U Xserve is currently in the works, and will be based on the 970, and will switch over to the Power 5. It will be Apple's high end server, and the name Xserve enterprise edition has been proposed. A high end multiprocessor workstation class pro model is also in the works. The name XStation has been proposed for it, and it could debut a year from now. It will feature Nvidia's highest end Quadro or equivalent graphics card, and it will feature the upcoming Power 5 chip from IBM.
post #2 of 441
well, that's quite a mouthfull

Yikes! Clicking on one thread takes me to another thread, then posts in the thread I was trying to go to.......

At any rate, one can only hope the 1.3 is not true, because if that's all too appear for the next ten months or so, that's REALLY depressing.

[ 11-24-2002: Message edited by: Flounder ]</p>
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post #3 of 441
They have to be early with the 970, they just have to. Certainly not shipping at MWSF, but announced, online at the store, orders in cue, ready to ship by Mar/April.

Either that or Steve is going to have to pull a consumer device out of his ass that's good enough to keep everyone distracted for another 6 months when he can announce 970 based macs.
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post #4 of 441
sometimes info is just too good to be true and this would appear to be the case. while everything stated sounds plausible and very realistic I find it hard to believe that one person would know so much. in order for someone to know all this I would assume they would be pretty high in the apple food chain and in that case easy to track down as a leak.

nice story, but well, I'll believe it when I see it
post #5 of 441
Hmmmm, IBM 970 in Q3 of the year 2003, what speed will Intel's hyperthreaders be at that time...4....maybe five Ghz? We need to get some speed on these processors...that has been said again and again. 64 bit or not, Apple is not gaining market shares at one third the marketed processing speed of crappy but fast wintel boxes. Cmon IBM, don't let us down like Moto has done....goodbye Moto (mocking their stupid "hello moto" phone commericials"
post #6 of 441
Does the paragraph of "what happened to the G5" account for Dorsal's comments/observations from last year?
post #7 of 441
Another question: why would Apple look to IBM for its next generation processor in the fall of 2000 when it was expecting Moto to deliver the G5 in 2001?

Has Appl been planning to deliver a 970 workstation since 2000?

"Apple has numerous working prototypes, and will begin to send them to key developers later this month."

Is there anyone within the AI commune who will be receiving one of these?
post #8 of 441
[[[Hmmmm, IBM 970 in Q3 of the year 2003, what speed will Intel's hyperthreaders be at that time...4....maybe five Ghz? We need to get some speed on these processors...that has been said again and again. ]]]

I keep thinking about the scenario involving the ants vs. the elephant.

MP will win out on the desktop. They're going to kill them with numbers...

The 970 in MP configs should be an awesome performer. They certainly have the bus for it now... If they should ever move the memory controller on-die as well... ;-) then that would also gain significant performance. And it's been a while since VMX/AltiVec had an upgrade. I wonder what's in the works?

--
Ed
post #9 of 441
I can believe it. All the other rumors have Apple choosing to leave an incompetent Moto, but I've always found that suspicious. Apple is just irrelevant these days. To Moto, to IBM, to AMD, I just don't think Apple has anything compelling to offer to any of these companies to make them go out of their way to help. I don't think any of us want to wait 8-10 months for a halfway decent processor, but I think that is what we will have to do.

bummer
post #10 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by filmmaker2002:
<strong>Hmmmm, IBM 970 in Q3 of the year 2003, what speed will Intel's hyperthreaders be at that time...4....maybe five Ghz? We need to get some speed on these processors...that has been said again and again. 64 bit or not, Apple is not gaining market shares at one third the marketed processing speed of crappy but fast wintel boxes. Cmon IBM, don't let us down like Moto has done....goodbye Moto (mocking their stupid "hello moto" phone commericials"</strong><hr></blockquote>

i don't think that intels 4Ghz or 5Ghz cpus will be so much faster than the upcoming 970 - the 970 has 3 to 5 times the SPEC-performance of a G4 besides - SPEC isn't a good thing to compare x86 and PPC speeds. but as the current G4 is faster in some situations than a double-the-Ghz-x86 the 970 will be 3 times faster in some situations than a double-the-ghz-x86. the G4 - as far as i know - as about 5300DMIPS as the 1Ghz-G4 has about 2300DMIPS - again a speed bump &gt; factor 2. so nobody can say if the new 970 will be slow when compared to an intel 5Ghz... i think it will be there and can compete with all others...

to the first post: why should a XStation-server get the fastest and biggest graphics card?

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</p>
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post #11 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by Krassy:
<strong>i don't think that intels 4Ghz or 5Ghz cpus will be so much faster than the upcoming 970</strong><hr></blockquote>

iirc, intel said they wont be going to more than close to 4ghz in 2003.
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post #12 of 441
Bull. I simply don't believe that the PowerPC market revolves around Apple. The G5 and the PowerPC 970 both revolving around Apple.

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post #13 of 441
If this is all true, what can Apple do to keep its existing line attractive?

For consumers their existing computers are good enough, but they are a bit pricey. I don't belong to the group that thinks that Macs are slow. I have a 17" iMac and a 667 TiBook and they are both more than fast enough for my uses (which is more or less typical consumer uses). I don't play a lot of games, but for the ones I play these machines are fast enough (not for hard-core gamers though).

So in the consumer space I think it will be enough to lower the price and increase specs on other parts of the systems (as they just did on the iBooks and TiBooks). 17" iMacs with faster video and lower priced eMacs with more RAM as standard would probably do it.
I have just read articles stating that currently PCs are fast enough for what people are using them for and there is no motivation for upgrading on the PC-side. There is also a tendency away from games on PCs - this market is moving towards consoles. So it seems as though there is no big push for speed any more - it isn't "need for speed" that drives upgrades.

Maybe there is a market for Apple here? Families with PCs with Windows buying a Mac as a second computer?

For the professional useres the story is different. Apple will have to give a timeline for the new professional systems. If nothing happens to the PowerMac (and a price drop is not enough) they will have to "bite the bullet" and announce their processor strategy - when will the new machines be announced and what processor will they use. It is better to have the professional users waiting for 6 months for new machines than to have the jump ship.

And BTW: Everybody says Q3 for the 970. Is that fiscal or calendar Q3? Apples fiscal Q3 starts in April...

Terje
post #14 of 441
Do you think that Intel or Microsoft might actually have moles in Motorola to sabotage the chips?

Come on, pay someone $200,000 to take a dive would be cheap compared to market share riches.

How would anyone every know? Just have the lead engineer make a circuit mistake, a die error, a process oversight and voila, 12 months effort dow the tubes.

This is really sad. Pretty soon Connectix will come up with an emulator for WinTel for the Mac. VirtualMac. And when Intel is running at 5 Ghz, the VirtualMac will beat out the real, though BASE Macs.

Steve won't be able to cash in those stock options any time soon.
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post #15 of 441
My own pet theory is that Apple's shift to developing on gcc instead of Metrowerks gives us some sort of indication of the genesis of the IBM deal. Think about it: Metrowerks have always been good to Apple: they supported PPC before anyone else, ditto OSX. But they are owned by Motorola.

It's clear enough what Apple gets from this deal: what does IBM get? Apart from providing a high-profile customer, Apple's contributions to gcc will inevitably enhance the quality of linux applications on PPC. And this is what IBM wants: a viable desktop/server platform whose OS can't be killed by Microsoft, and a hardware architecture that IBM controls, not Intel. In other words, IBM wants to turn linux/PPC into a mainstream platform, and Apple's open-source contributions are a small but crucial piece of the big picture.
post #16 of 441
That story would certainly jive with the fact that we have heard very little from Dorsal and other HW ...ahem... "sources."

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post #17 of 441
I Think IBM/Apple combo is most realistic case.

IBM will expand it's Linux based servers.
More companies are looking @ linux now when it is being offered by IBM, HP, etc...
These servers are becoming more atractive than WIN boxes, because of price/performance.

Don't forget that IBM is providing G3 chips used in iBooks, so IBM/Apple is not something new. Also IBM's using PowerPC in their servers.

They will benefit from supplying Apple with CPUs as well as Apple will benefit from stable supplier with interest and means of enhancing/developing CPUs
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post #18 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by tryd:
<strong>If this is all true, what can Apple do to keep its existing line attractive?

For consumers their existing computers are good enough, but they are a bit pricey. </strong><hr></blockquote>
The problem is is that anyone who knows the difference between a Bitmap and a Vector thinks that they need the most powerfull computer out there to "do what they need to do"

My brother, who doesn't know jack about multi-media, video, graphics or etc, was a MAC user . . . but he said to me that he was going to buy a Dell because he needed the 'power' and could afford to get a Mac to "do everything I need to Do" for the same amount of money.
Now I know that he doesn't "DO" anything . . . he barely knows what a JPEG is, if at all, and he sure as hell doesn't l know After Effects from Excell. . . . so what has him thinking this way?
prolly just trendy techno-lust . . .

and besides, I look at him whenever I want to test the ways that the quotidienne zeitgeist is turning, as he is remarkable normal (great guy though but pretty mainstream)
So, I imagine that there are throngs of people who have convinced themselves that they need to top of the line Dell simply to "DO What They Need To Do" which is surf the web and send pictures to freinds and family.

Apple does' address this level of the market, the, what I would call, the pleasantly self-deluded gadget lovers . . . but they spend a huge amount of cash to upkeep their fantasies


anyway, what are he specs on teh first 970?

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: pfflam ]</p>
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post #19 of 441
So Motorola has problem with scaling up the G4. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
They have had this since 1999.
They also had the same problem with the G3 and IBM stepped in.
They also had the same problem with the 604 and IBM stepped in.
At least they are constent <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

There is no reason to call the 970 a G5. The 604 was not a called a G2 or the 603 was not called G1 or the 601 a G0. They should call it the "IBM 970".

"If you want to have a UNIX workstation with a IBM 970 CPU you can buy one from "a big blue company" or from us, we will include iApplication XYZ"

The G4 laggs way behind the P4 and the G3 is behind the Celerons so why name someing G5? To hint that this is behind as well?
post #20 of 441
But Pfflam, if your brother doesn't "do anything" that probably means he uses the internet, Office and plays games. All experiences that are better served by a cheaper PC. Mebbe not techno-lust then, just common sense.
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post #21 of 441
Can someone explain to me why it would take a year from tape out to produce this part in quantity? 6-8 mos is more in line with industry average?
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post #22 of 441
[quote]Originally mused by applenut:
sometimes info is just too good to be true and this would appear to be the case. while everything stated sounds plausible and very realistic I find it hard to believe that one person would know so much.... <hr></blockquote>

1 word: Layoffs.

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post #23 of 441
Reaction against copy protection stuff is bollocks.

If and when MS introduces its copy protection software/hardware the music/film industries will adopt it too. ie and MS OS will be required to access content so protected. Some sector of computer users may be pissed off by this, but most aren't going to care one way or the other.

Of those that do care, there's no other recourse anyway, because the content they want will only be available in the copy protected form. Thus Apple is not going to pick up recruits because it offers no alternative, or will adopt the same standard of copy protection too in order to get some level of compatibility for existing and future Mac users.

Pissed? Blame all the pirates who've been spoiling it for honest users (or at least reasonably honest users).
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post #24 of 441
This is the best and most logical rumor i have read it for a long time. I don't know if it is true : but in the contrary it must have been write by a Vulcain (pure logic).

The future will bring us an answer. The mac is not still dead yet. But i fear that we have to wait until the 970 to have something exciting coming from Apple.
post #25 of 441
I read this same article over at <a href="http://www.Macrumors.com" target="_blank">www.Macrumors.com</a> then I saw it here. I read it twice and have come to the decision that any body that has been following the recent rumors could have put that thing together.

\tThe article is wrong in a few areas. First the problem in early O3 is not that the 7457 will not scale but that it won't be out till 2Q-03. When the chip does come out half way through the year we will see speeds of up to 1.8Ghz. The 970 will come out at around the same time with similar clock speeds as the 7457, of course it will be much faster.

\tBecause of the fact that both of these new chips are coming out at around the same time makes it difficult to predict when apple will release new systems. Will apple release the 970 Powermacs at the same time as the 7457 consumer macs or will apple release the 970 early with a pre order type thing?

\tI would also like to point out that, although I am not sure about the 7457-RM, I do know that it won't be ready for next year. So that chip is out of the picture for awhile.

So the question for the 7457 and 970 is when will we see them. I am guessing that we will see the 970 sooner than later. Otherwise we will see no Powermac speed bumps at MWSF. Also why would Woz be there if something cool wasn't happening.


Also just so you know: Many motorola documents show the 7457 going up to 1.3ghz and the 7455 going up to 1ghz. As we know already apple has a 7455 that runs at 1.25. The smaller process and SOI on the 7457 will allow it to go much faster that the 7455. The reason motorola doesn't advertise the real top speeds is because 90% of their customers want slower but cooler chips. Apple is the only buyer that actually wants the fast but hotter ones. Looking in the right places will reveal the true clock speeds of the 7457.
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post #26 of 441
[quote]If and when MS introduces its copy protection software/hardware the music/film industries will adopt it too. ie and MS OS will be required to access content so protected.<hr></blockquote>
Little sideays here. If and when MS adopts copy protection (Intel as well) it will be a result of working with the music/film industry, who presently find MS's DRM direction very attractive.

[quote]Of those that do care, there's no other recourse anyway, because the content they want will only be available in the copy protected form.
<hr></blockquote>
In its unprotected form it also appears to be platform-centric, that is MS only. Can't name any music or movie delivery services that have Mac compatibility.

[quote]Pissed? Blame all the pirates who've been spoiling it for honest users (or at least reasonably honest users).<hr></blockquote>
No, blame the music/film industry who despite a complete lack of evidence wishes to blame the consumer for the drop in CD sales, and a drop in movie attendance. Anytime an industry acts with the assumption that all their customers are engaged in criminal behavior, that is a good indication that the industry is intellectually bereft of ideas, unable to deal with the future and morally suspect. These are the same people that said that VCR's would kill the industry (it instead opened up a lucrative post-theater sales and licensing market) and who pushed digital (CD's) to replace vinyl because they saw more profits in CD sales. There is still no direct evidence that mp3 downloads kill CD sales--crappy RIAA sponsored studies notwithstanding.

Consumers are sheep up until a certain point, if that were not the case MS would not have made substantial DRM changes to the XP Media OS. The consumer, in general, still believes in the tangibility of goods and purchase as ownership. Anything that messes with that basic assumption will meet with failure.

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: cowerd ]

[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: cowerd ]</p>
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post #27 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by JRC:
<strong>Do you think that Intel or Microsoft might actually have moles in Motorola to sabotage the chips?

Come on, pay someone $200,000 to take a dive would be cheap compared to market share riches.

How would anyone every know? Just have the lead engineer make a circuit mistake, a die error, a process oversight and voila, 12 months effort dow the tubes.

This is really sad. Pretty soon Connectix will come up with an emulator for WinTel for the Mac. VirtualMac. And when Intel is running at 5 Ghz, the VirtualMac will beat out the real, though BASE Macs.

Steve won't be able to cash in those stock options any time soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, sticking point would be licensing X I'm sure, if not then you'd need a 5.ghz chip to run it decent if VPC is any clue.
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post #28 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>sometimes info is just too good to be true and this would appear to be the case. while everything stated sounds plausible and very realistic I find it hard to believe that one person would know so much. in order for someone to know all this I would assume they would be pretty high in the apple food chain and in that case easy to track down as a leak.

nice story, but well, I'll believe it when I see it</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well, I've known about a new moto G4 mobo due in Jan/Feb and that IBM would be making the next chips before the 970 was even announced, and I've said so on these boards. Everyone knows about Maklar, just no one knew it was a kick in the head while M$ is down one (which i think rocks )

So this is all not only very believable, but very likely.
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post #29 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by DrBoar:
<strong>So Motorola has problem with scaling up the G4. <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />
They have had this since 1999.
They also had the same problem with the G3 and IBM stepped in.
They also had the same problem with the 604 and IBM stepped in.
At least they are constent <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, the 604 / 604e scaled pretty well. It debutted close to the 100mhz range and scaled to 350mhz rather quickly. Yes, IBM was in the picture at that time, but if you remember, the 604e actually ran at a higher clock rate than the equivalent Pentium of the day.

[quote]<strong>
There is no reason to call the 970 a G5. The 604 was not a called a G2 or the 603 was not called G1 or the 601 a G0. They should call it the "IBM 970".
</strong><hr></blockquote>

The "G" naming convention was an Apple marketing decision. There were too many version of PPC at the time with little meaning to the names. 601, 603, 603e 603ev, 604, 604e, 620, with 630 (G3) on the way, etc. Motorola then adopted Apple's naming convention to help identify the chips. The "G"eneration is a good way of describing the relative significance of a design change. There was not G1 or G2 because there was no need for it then. In fact, it would have just confused things further. For example, the 603 and 604 products were technically the same "G2" generation. The naming conventions became confusing around the G3 timeframe. Similarly, we've seen multiple "G4"s. There was the 7400, 7410, 7450, 7455, etc.

The PPC970 is a radical departure from the PPC74xx series such that it warrants a significant generation number. While there's no reason Apple "has" to stick with this convention, it would be confusing for it's consumers to do anything else.

[quote]<strong>
"If you want to have a UNIX workstation with a IBM 970 CPU you can buy one from "a big blue company" or from us, we will include iApplication XYZ"
</strong><hr></blockquote>

IBM and Apple really compete for different markets. I don't think Apple will ever be all that successful in the enterprise business. It's not that I don't think they're capable of delivering, it's that there is just to much anti-Apple stigma on the corporate level. OS X is opening a few eyes, but it's going to take some time.

[quote]<strong>
The G4 laggs way behind the P4 and the G3 is behind the Celerons so why name someing G5? To hint that this is behind as well?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You can read anything you want into a name. When I see a new generation of a product (be it P5 or G5), that's a signal to me to throw out every preconceived notion about relative performance until I re-evaluate with new benchmarks. If the "G" terminology says to you that it must be slow, perhaps you should re-think what's in a name and what constitutes a new generation.

Steve
post #30 of 441
Power Mac G4 with Motorola G4 CPU.

Power Mac G5 with IBM PowerPC 970 CPU.

That would be the logical marketing progression.

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post #31 of 441
AMD called the K8 (codename Opteron) Athlon 64. Perhaps Apple will do the same, with this new chip : the PPC 64.
It will be more logical than the G5. The G5 is supposed to be an evolution of the G4. The ppc 970 is a whole new design derivated from the the power4 chips. It's more than simply a new generation : it's a new family of chips. The name will have to point out this, it's not an evolution it's a new family of chips.
post #32 of 441
G64
C64
G464
PPC 64
G4 PPC 64
post #33 of 441
I tell ya, movie attendance is not hurt by any form of piracy. No way. You might make an argument for MP3/music, but it doesn't wash at all for films. Firstly, (like music) the vast majority of films out there simply aren't worth the 13.50 Canadian, mega theatre or not. Consumers know about this, they read reviews online and in the papers and can usually find a critical source that meshes very well with their own tastes. Secondly, video rental/purchase and Cable/satelite are very good at delivering films to the audience. 13.50 Canadian, times 4 or 5 people, plus concessions, quickly turns into a very expensive 2 hours for many families. They'll wait 6 months, rent it and grab a pizza, and instead of 90-120 dollars, they'll spend 30. It makes a difference.

The quality argument goes a long way. There's too much crap out there that people just won't pay for. Even a catchy single is often saddled with a total piece of crap of an album. Some albums don't even offer that much. I know, I have a big music collection, and probably half of it was purchased second hand. In as much as I buy new discs, I often take a look through some oldies and find something I've wanted/liked and pick it up. (T.O. has a couple of nice new/used music vendors, and a lot of pretty decent Book shops) I might be more discriminating, but I think even snotty kids and screeching teen girls eventually tire of the 4th heavy breathing installment from teen boy redux version 14. Sure they'll listen to it on the radio, and maybe download it, but let's be honest, no one in their right mind is going to buy the NewKidsOnTheBlock reunion/detox tour live. Most of this serious work was never going to go further than a few months of airplay before it fizzled out and died.

Of course, now that corporate radio has a stake in making sure certain franchises don't die, instead of a few months, you get to listen to the same 40 songs on the radio for the better part of 18 months. Great fun that... not. The point is no one was going to buy the stuff to begin with, cause it stinks. More peope will listen to it, we listen to buskers on the street too, but we don't have a choice if they're standing in our way now, do we? Same thing with Mp3, we'll listen, but you can be pretty sure we won't pay for it when it doesn't meet our expectations.

Also, recent numbers from France and England suggest that music sales in the last 5 years are up not down, despite MP3.
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post #34 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:
<strong>AMD called the K8 (codename Opteron) Athlon 64. Perhaps Apple will do the same, with this new chip : the PPC 64.
It will be more logical than the G5.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dont think so.. The Athlon 64 is pro based, while Apple sells a lot of consumer machines! And the war between the Nintendo 64, PSX2, Sega and so on, has learned most consumers that dont know better, that 64 is out, and 128 bit is in!
Therefore I think it would be a step back...

I go for Powermac 970, Powermac 980, Powermac 990 and so on.. ^^

iMac keeps its name.
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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post #35 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by Algol:
[QB]
\tThe article is wrong in a few areas. First the problem in early O3 is not that the 7457 will not scale but that it won't be out till 2Q-03. When the chip does come out half way through the year we will see speeds of up to 1.8Ghz. The 970 will come out at around the same time with similar clock speeds as the 7457, of course it will be much faster.
<hr></blockquote>

You're reading wrong for one-

[quote] Apple is in for another G4 drought in early 2003, whereby Motorola may not be able to push the G4 above 1.3 Ghz, which would be a paltry 50 Mhz speed bump with the upcoming 7457 G4 <hr></blockquote>

It means Apple will only have a possible 50mhz speedbump for Jan or early 2003. This is the new moto mobo G4 and we will se it early 2003. The 970 is coming out fall of 2003. So while mac users will be running naked in the streets throwing bitten apples at everyone when the leaves are turning brown, we will be quietly saving up those apples when the flowers bloom.

hehe
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post #36 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch:
<strong>
Dont think so.. The Athlon 64 is pro based, while Apple sells a lot of consumer machines! And the war between the Nintendo 64, PSX2, Sega and so on, has learned most consumers that dont know better, that 64 is out, and 128 bit is in!
Therefore I think it would be a step back...

I go for Powermac 970, Powermac 980, Powermac 990 and so on.. ^

iMac keeps its name.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why not jsut round off so we coild have XPowermac?

or do a AMD and have Powermac 970/1400, ect. Or just call it a G9 (9=970) and say the powermacs just leap 5 generations into the future by ditching moto.

I still think G5 because it's the 5th generation chip for Apple. Everyone is anticipating the G5, news sites quote our G5 rumors, and every pc user that knows about macs knows about the mythological G5.

Powermac G5
Powermac 970
XPowermac
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post #37 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch:
<strong>
I go for Powermac 970, Powermac 980, Powermac 990 and so on.. ^^

iMac keeps its name.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Let me guess, you probably like the Performa naming convention too??

I doubt the masses will get the whole 970, 980, etc. thing. If anything, it should be something like PowerMac G5, featuring the PPC970 or PPC980, etc.

I suspect we won't see any dramatic changes to the motherboard prior to the PPC970. I think the G5 will likely mean several things. The processor will be the first and foremost important thing, but faster bus / motherboard, etc. would also be implied with that naming convention. Remember, the "G" naming convention is an Apple marketing thing. It's not tied to any specific company or product line. For example, in handsight, Apple was smart by renaming Motorola's Altivec technology to Velocity engine. Now, when Apple moves to the PPC 970 with VMX, it can still advertise things like G5 with Velocity engine.

Steve

Steve
post #38 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by MarkL:
<strong>Another question: why would Apple look to IBM for its next generation processor in the fall of 2000 when it was expecting Moto to deliver the G5 in 2001?

Has Appl been planning to deliver a 970 workstation since 2000?

"Apple has numerous working prototypes, and will begin to send them to key developers later this month."

Is there anyone within the AI commune who will be receiving one of these?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Apple has been working with IBM on this project since before April 2000, and have had prototypes since mid March 2002.
post #39 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by Tomb of the Unknown:
<strong>Can someone explain to me why it would take a year from tape out to produce this part in quantity? 6-8 mos is more in line with industry average?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Revisions ... maybe??
post #40 of 441
[quote]Originally posted by SteveS:
<strong>

Let me guess, you probably like the Performa naming convention too??

I doubt the masses will get the whole 970, 980, etc. thing. If anything, it should be something like PowerMac G5, featuring the PPC970 or PPC980, etc.

I suspect we won't see any dramatic changes to the motherboard prior to the PPC970. I think the G5 will likely mean several things. The processor will be the first and foremost important thing, but faster bus / motherboard, etc. would also be implied with that naming convention. Remember, the "G" naming convention is an Apple marketing thing. It's not tied to any specific company or product line. For example, in handsight, Apple was smart by renaming Motorola's Altivec technology to Velocity engine. Now, when Apple moves to the PPC 970 with VMX, it can still advertise things like G5 with Velocity engine.

Steve

Steve</strong><hr></blockquote>

The problem with using the G5 moniker to describe the 970 is that it implies that the 970 is merely an evolution of the G4, much like the G4 was an evolution of the G3.

The 970 is a completely different beast (64-bit ISA, derived from POWER4, different system bus, made exclusive by IBM, etc.), and because the developemnt of the desktop PPC has stagnated at Motorola, as a result, the "brand" G4 has become tainted, so it makes more sense, IMO, to use a different naming convention, one that indicates that PowerMacs (and Xserves, Tibooks, imacs, etc.) equipped with the 970 are a huge leap ahead in performance and features.
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