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how long before g5 Powerbooks?

post #1 of 164
Thread Starter 
How long did it take for the g4 TiBook to come out after the g4 chip was released...was it about 9-12 months later? Just curious to when a possible g5 book could come out.
post #2 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by marloe
Just curious to when a possible g5 book could come out.

12 months at least from now. I would be really surprised to see them in January.
post #3 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by marloe
How long did it take for the g4 TiBook to come out after the g4 chip was released...was it about 9-12 months later? Just curious to when a possible g5 book could come out.

powermac G4 = september 1999
powerbook G4 = januari 2001 (about 16 months later)
i think apple will move heaven and earth to at least announce G5 powerbooks at mwsf2004 and earlier if they have to and can use a sort of "kanga" (pbG3/1997) workaround. but i doubt if that's technological possible...the fact that they just introduced (jan2003) new 12"/17"powerbooks is not a problem,
they introduce if they can.
the biggest problem is heat (and cooling)

but if apple needs a 0.09nm 970 processor too solve these problems PB could be right and we have to wait a whole year.
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post #4 of 164
OK, so no new G5 PB's for a while it seems. But what if IBM have been working quietly on a smaller 970 chip that just hasn't been mentioned yet?
Meanwhile will Apple leave the 15" as it is for much longer or wait until G5 to update it? Reports say that 15.4" screen are on the way in the 2nd half of this year (anytime from now until christmas then), prices of the 12 and 15" are down and people are saying there aren't all that many 15" PB's around in the stores.
I can accept the reasoning for a delayed G5 PowerBook, but will they update the 15" soon, just to bring it in line with the rest of the range.

I need a new laptop, preferably before September, what should I do? I can't afford the 17", the 12" is a little too small for my liking and the 15" doesn't have bluetooth built-in or support for Airport Extreme among other things.
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post #5 of 164
that 3ghz in 12 months is a subtle hint. It will take at least that long.

Obviously, power consumption, heat and price of the PPC970 were all not as favorable as we wanted to believe. Luckily, the performance is, and then some.
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post #6 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
but if apple needs a 0.09nm 970 processor too solve these problems PB could be right and we have to wait a whole year.

I believe so. If the 0.13 micron chips need that much cooling, it's unlikely we'll ever see it in a notebook. What does this mean for the iBook? As long as PB is stuck with the G4, we'll be seeing the G3 iBook (the caboose of Apple hardware) for a long, long time.
post #7 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
that 3ghz in 12 months is a subtle hint. It will take at least that long.

Obviously, power consumption, heat and price of the PPC970 were all not as favorable as we wanted to believe. Luckily, the performance is, and then some.

The Chip itself is probably relatively cheap, its the rest that probably drive up the price along with fancy shmancy newness. New case with new cooling system (9 fans and a different controller), new Apple designed controller, New mobo, new memory... all these things add up and have to be amortized over the first 3 years at the longest.
post #8 of 164
We are forgetting that Mot are still lining up to deliver the .13 G4 with larger L2 cache sometime soon.

I would actually be quite happy with a machine with this in, giving a probable Hz boost, a drop in power, and a solid 10-15% speed boost from the L2 increase.

Perhaps this is just round the corner, but Apple doesn't want to colour the announcement of the G5 by announcing a new G4 laptop with similar timing.

If a 970 laptop was so far away, on the other hand, then you would have thought that Apple would have made an update to the 15" before announcing the g5 desktop, they can't leave the 15" in it's current form for another 6 months or more can they?
post #9 of 164
Like you say, there are lots of costs to recoup. For the first 3-6 months pros will buy the PM G5 in droves and help get back someof the costs. After that we'll see. The way it was explained to me you can't exactly down clock a chip and stick it in a laptop. You need to ge the best chips because they need to be able to switch at a lower voltage. Right now, and for the next little while, all the best chips will be finding their way into the PM G5 and turning a nice little profit on each machine.

9 fans.

It'll make it into a laptop. Price needed even be the issue as the top end config didn't budge regardless of the inclusion of the G5, but the engineering costs of the whole system probably will be, and the Powerbooks don't have the margin to spare that the PM's had. It will take a while and trickle down form the 17 to the 15 and mebbe eventually to the 12.
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post #10 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by danmanix
We are forgetting that Mot are still lining up to deliver the .13 G4 with larger L2 cache sometime soon.

I would actually be quite happy with a machine with this in, giving a probable Hz boost, a drop in power, and a solid 10-15% speed boost from the L2 increase.


I agree, I wouldn't mind a new G4 PowerBook in the mean time, trouble is would they sell? Everyone would probably be holding out for a G5 PowerBook.
Myself, I think I'd get one, although I would be dissapointed when the new signicantly faster laptops arrive. But as we know in computing, there's always a faster computer around the corner
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post #11 of 164
1. Note how the 970's low-end was supposed to be 1.2Ghz, but the lowest 970 Apple uses now is 1.6Ghz.
2. The 970 is 19W at 1.2Ghz.
3. The current G4 is 21W at 1Ghz.
4. The next G4 is 7.5W at 1 Ghz.

It seems to me that the lower-end 970 is at least as good of a laptop chip as the current .18 G4 7455, and Apple certainly could do it now if they wanted to spend the bucks. The 7457 will be much better than the current 7455, though, and so they may go another round or two with those, especially because the new G4 will be a drop-in replacement for the current G4, compared to the 970 which obviously will not be.
post #12 of 164
Regarding heat, I'd wager most of it is being produced by other things like 7200rpm SATA drives and graphics cards. 9 fans is too keep it cool at a low dB level.

A 1GHz G5 would still scream along at under 19W, it has to be worth doing.
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post #13 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by dnisbet
I agree, I wouldn't mind a new G4 PowerBook in the mean time, trouble is would they sell? Everyone would probably be holding out for a G5 PowerBook.

I'd buy one immediately (I'm in the market for a new PowerBook). If the 7457 arrived, I think we could make a guess that Apple would stick with the improved G4 in the PowerBook and iMac for a while.
post #14 of 164
Is a quiet upgrade on the cards for the MacWorld Creative Pro conference and expo which starts 14th july?
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post #15 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by dnisbet
OK, so no new G5 PB's for a while it seems. But what if IBM have been working quietly on a smaller 970 chip that just hasn't been mentioned yet?

Isn't that the 980, or am I mixed up?
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post #16 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Clive
Isn't that the 980, or am I mixed up?

I don't know. I'm no expert on what IBM or Motorola are working on. But they could have been working on a portable version alongside the version in the new G5 PowerMacs for some time meaning a new G5 chip for PB soon.
I know I'm being incredibly optimistic here and I myself would be supprised if this happened anytime soon. In the meantime I am in favour of a update to the G4 with the introduction of the 7457. But who knows!
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post #17 of 164
Outright scream along performance, while nice, is not likely to be realistic in a laptop. Though the 970 looks to be downright frugal compared to the 64 bit offerings from AMD and intel, it's probably still a stretch. If a '57 from Mot can make the PB's fast enough for a laptop while giving a big boost to battery life and beinga relatively cheap drop in, I would be pretty happy with that for another 12 months.

Remember also that the 970 needs a companion chip (designed by Apple) and this may not be suitable to laptop demands ATM.

I would never say never, but I really think it's going to take at least untill '04, and even then, the PB line itself will use both chips.

My money is on the 17 getting it exclusively, if only for a little while. Then the 15, and I think ONLY @ .09, the 12.
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post #18 of 164
Would designing a PowerBook motherboard to handle the faster FSB of the G5 (600MHz for a 1.2GHz G5) result in more power consumption by components other than the processor itself?

Asked another way, is comparing the 21W for a 1GHz G4 to the 19W of a 1.2GHz G5 sufficient for getting a reasonable picture of overall system power consumption?
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post #19 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by Clive
Isn't that the 980, or am I mixed up?

The 980 is a derivative of the POWER5. The die-shrunk 970 will still be a 970, from what I understand.

Well, here's something from the horse's mouth, as it were: Greg Joswiak in Maccentral...

"Motorola is huge for us. Our partnership with Motorola is not going away, G4s are in every other part of our product line. As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us, but IBM is the one that can take us to the next level."
post #20 of 164
That's exactly what I've thinking the past day or two. I'm not holding out for a G5 PowerBook because I just think it's a little ways down the road.

But good googley moogley, I wish they'd hurry up and wrap that 15" in the aluminum shell and give it all the updated goodies (Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, FireWire 800, etc.) already!

I is gettin' IMPATIENT!

post #21 of 164
sorry, didnt c this was posted already.

Apple: "G5 not going in a PowerBook anytime soon."

Jun 24, 03 | 11:30 am ? MacCentral has published an interview with Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of Hardware Product Marketing: "Motorola is huge for us," said Joswiak. "Our partnership with Motorola is not going away, G4s are in every other part of our product line. As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us...

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/06/24/future/
post #22 of 164
It will be impossible to build the Powerbook G5. The actual G5 can fried an egg in less that a stove. I don't see a new PB G5 in the near future.

Steve when are we going to have or even see the Powerbook 15.4 Al. I need one!!!
post #23 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyCash22
sorry, didnt c this was posted already.

Apple: "G5 not going in a PowerBook anytime soon."

Jun 24, 03 | 11:30 am ? MacCentral has published an interview with Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of Hardware Product Marketing: "Motorola is huge for us," said Joswiak. "Our partnership with Motorola is not going away, G4s are in every other part of our product line. As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us...

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/06/24/future/

Wow. Good catch. There you have it then.
post #24 of 164
*sulk*

Still, they wheel out Joz when they don't want us to stop buying. It just means not this year.
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post #25 of 164
Never one to miss an opportunity to gloat,

I

told

you

so

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post #26 of 164
No PPC 970 notebooks until the 970 gets a die shrink.

Folks, there is much more to a 970 in a notebook than just getting enough 970 chips. You need a new motherboard, and this is not a motherboard that will be easy to shrink down to powerbook sizes and power consumption. I would say that at BEST, you will have a 15 inch 970 sometime in December/January. In the meantime, the current 15 will get a die shrunk G4. Don't expect a 970 15 inch Albook within five months of a speed bumped G4 15 Ti book.
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post #27 of 164
I dont see how it can be 'year of the laptop' if the desktop has the better specs (by a long way). I'm glad I got my 15" SD 4 months or so ago, with planned 20"CD soon and G5 tower next year.
post #28 of 164
Well since reading that macworld article it seems my dreams of a g5 powerbook any time soon have been dashed. I'm still holding out for a updated 15" but the 12" is looking better and better the more I think about it.
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post #29 of 164
nevermind the heat produced by the chip itself, doesn't that 1Ghz bus give off a crapload of heat?
post #30 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
nevermind the heat produced by the chip itself, doesn't that 1Ghz bus give off a crapload of heat?

That was more-or-less my previous question (which no one has been able to answer yet), because, scaled back to 1.2 GHz, a G5 in-and-of-itself uses less power than the current G4 at 1 GHz: 19W vs. 21W.
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post #31 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
But good googley moogley....

/me pines for Belle.../
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post #32 of 164
Year of the Laptop

This was pure marketing mumbo jumbo. Apple thought at that time that they would not be able to announce a new G5 PowerMac until September 03 at the earliest. G4 PowerMac sales were stagnant and so they needed a marketing ploy to make people buy more hardware - enter 'Year of the laptop'. Launching the 12" and 17" PB gave Apple breathing space and took attention away from the PowerMac line.

However, IBM got ahead of themselves and hey presto, we have a (psuedo-prototype/very early production) G5 PowerMac on display at WWDC. This is great news for Apple and the marketing and press now focus on this.

Year of the Laptop was pure marketing. As much as I want a new 15.X" PB (hopefully with a 970) I realise that Apple had to hype one market sector to take the heat off another.

Anyhow, those are my thoughts and they make sense to me.

Please Steve, release a roadmap to the dev. community so that we can see when the G5 will hit the laptops.

Grizzly (drunk again)
post #33 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyCash22
Apple: "G5 not going in a PowerBook anytime soon."
..
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/06/24/future/

That's because they're still developing the 19" laptop, which has enough room to fit the 9 fans they need.

But could you imagine if they introduced a 970 Powerbook yesterday? People would be saying, "Centri-who?" Instead of a code name like Blackbird, they would have labeled it "The Bluebird of Happiness."

Okay— back to reality...
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post #34 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by applenut
nevermind the heat produced by the chip itself, doesn't that 1Ghz bus give off a crapload of heat?

It seems the bus is half the clock speed of the processor. If the processor ran at 1.2 GHz (the number frequently tossed around) then the bus would run at 600MHz. Much slower and requiring less power than the 2 GHz tower' bus. Possibly the PB bus would run at a lower voltage as well. Both the slower clock and lower V would reduce power requirements. I don't know if that reduces the power enough to shoehorn the 970 into a laptop.

I agree with many of the others, I can't wait for the next 15" Al PB (G4 or G5).
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post #35 of 164
IBM could produce a low voltage PPC 970 at one ghz. he will perform mostly like a 1,5 ghz G4, and will not produce much heat. The memory will be DDR 333. Technically i think it's possible.



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post #36 of 164
The problem I see is that If I needed a new powerbook today great I might wait to see a 15" upgrade and buy it when it came out. But I looking to buy Feb/March next year. I will not buy a G4 Powerbook to run Panther, I will put off my purchase until I see a G5 PB.
post #37 of 164
Wait, is Panther some sort of system/power hog? Don't tell me that with each major update, the demands for properly running OS X go up another generation of chip.



Please.

I mean, do all these iBook and iMac owners (ahem...) get shut out of Panther all of a sudden? Doubt it.

I'd imagine any sort of G4, 800MHz and above will handle it quite well. And since that pretty much means EVERYTHING in Apple lineup (except the iBook...sigh), Panther is for everyone!

post #38 of 164
Anyone remembers how long G4 towers were around, before the first TiBook was released ? As far as I remember that was around a year.
Exact same discussion back then: a G4 powerbook will only be good to boil a cup of water to make some tea.
Wouldn't be surprised if we're looking at the same timespan now...

IMHO ofcourse...
post #39 of 164
I agree. That's why, as of yesterday, I've all but set aside my hopes/dreams for a G5 PowerBook anytime before next March or so. I'll proudly purchase, use, dote on (and evangelize with) an updated aluminum G4-based 15"...IF THEY'D EVER RELEASE IT!!!!!



WHAT is the hold up?

post #40 of 164
Quote:
Originally posted by BostonMJH
The problem I see is that If I needed a new powerbook today great I might wait to see a 15" upgrade and buy it when it came out. But I looking to buy Feb/March next year. I will not buy a G4 Powerbook to run Panther, I will put off my purchase until I see a G5 PB.

My guess is that you might be able to get a G5 by then. I would say 60% possibility. The real question is when are the current powerbooks going to be updated (if they get updated in October, then no G5's for a while), and when will the G5 fo through its first die shrink?

The REAL question is how far along is Apple with making a new motherboard... oh wait, I just remembered that the 17 inch Al book has a new motherboard. I don't see Apple using that motherboard for less than a year, so I think that a 970 is quite a ways away.

Here is the test:

If the new 15 has a new mobo, then it is going to be a very long time until we get a 970 powerbook. If the new 15 is the same mobo, then a 970 is near(er).

I'm rambling. Why is my code profiler so slow?
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