iPhone - Looks like the rumors were true... - Page 2

Would anyone be interested in a 2 peice phone? Basically a small pocket device about 4-5cm x 8-9cm x 2cm that has a keypad and screen and a bluetooth one-piece headset with rechargable batteries in both?

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>EDIT: Oh GOD you're right aren't you. Based on the gubbins in the TM application, it's more likely an iAPP isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I thought so too, but then I read the "Class: 9 Computer hardware and software" section that is listed only by title in the "IPHONE" text, but in full in the "IPOD" text.

There are some odd discrepancies, though. I take it the "IPHONE" text was passed through a translator or something, because it makes very little sense in many places.
[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>Imagine if you put all the powerful "Sherlock like" web sevices into this phone? Lookup airline flight arrivals and departures? Look up maps? Look up movie locations and times? Convert French to English when you are at a Paris Cafe?

Instead of a stupid browser on a phone, what if its a true "iPhone". Wireless Web services (XML baby!) Light! Fast! Easy! Low Bandwidth! No Brainer!

Would you buy a cell phone like that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I will. In 2010. But if you're expecting something like that from Apple, or anyone else, anytime soon, you'll be sadly disappointed.

Don't let the name confuse you I'd say. Perhaps the iPhone is actually a wireless PDA type device. It enables you to go to .Mac to read your email (you set up an account there of course), access files you've transffered to your account and get news and info like other wireless PDA's. It is not neccessarily a voice device but an extension of your computer. I seem to remember this kind of device being bandied about several years ago.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Yes, I will. In 2010. But if you're expecting something like that from Apple, or anyone else, anytime soon, you'll be sadly disappointed. </strong><hr></blockquote>

We already have stuff like this from Vodafone here in New Zealand.


<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>


Hmmm... yes, I agree. (thinking off the top of my head too) I think there are some we have not thought of too.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I really like Harald's ideas earlier in this thread about combining messages, Bluetooth, Rendezvous etc. That would be very neat.

[quote]Originally posted by JPF:
<strong>

MP3 player from Apple. Who the hell would one made by them? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Not me.

:eek:

[quote]Originally posted by MacLuv:
<strong>We already have stuff like this from Vodafone here in New Zealand.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can get flight arrivals, maps, movie information, and language translation?! Please tell me you're not talking about WAP?

Also, isn't Vodafone a network rather than a cell phone hardware/software manufacturer?

[quote]Originally posted by othello:
<strong>

I really like Harald's ideas earlier in this thread about combining messages, Bluetooth, Rendezvous etc. That would be very neat.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Awwwwwww.

Yep, if it's a wireless device, ya got to think about the killer thing. And the killer thing is something that only Apple can do, something that resets the concept of the device, while fitting into the Digital Hub vision ... total integration of Mac, .Mac and iApps with the device.

Personally I think it's staring us in the face. If you've ever shown someone a demo of sending / receiving SMS on your Mac, you get some serious "wow" factor.

Add all that iCal / iChat / iPhoto / iSync goodness (and don't forget those nascent functions of "subscribing" to user content brought in with iCal and that iSync can sync remote computers) and you've got a package NO-ONE can touch for functionality or ease of use. Which is something I believe Apple are hot on.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
You can get flight arrivals, maps, movie information, and language translation?! Please tell me you're not talking about WAP?

Also, isn't Vodafone a network rather than a cell phone hardware/software manufacturer?</strong><hr></blockquote>

1) You can get all that indeed, via WAP (since 2000), and I use it now and then. But I'm fairly geeky. But think, you can't use iPod to rip content. You can't enter data on iPod. The Mac is the hub remember ... and we WILL see iCal integration with Sherlock (enter a meeting address in iCal and grab the map via Sherlock ... and then beam the map to your iPhone).

If the date / address changes when you're on the way, iCal can reflect the new address and you get the new map downloaded via .Mac ... and WAP is just http really ... configure it via your PC and even non geeks will find it useful.

2) Vodafone, and the other operators including O2 and Orange, are moving more and more toward collaborations with people like Quanta computer (remember them?) to OEM / OED their own devices, spec'ed out by them and badged as Voda / Orange / O2 devices. For example, the SPV and the XDA. Japan did it first and made shitloads of money.

3) And we've not touched on messaging, either text or picture yet ...

Harald said:
[quote]Add all that iCal / iChat / iPhoto / iSync goodness (and don't forget those nascent functions of "subscribing" to user content brought in with iCal and that iSync can sync remote computers) and you've got a package NO-ONE can touch for functionality or ease of use. Which is something I believe Apple are hot on.<hr></blockquote>

Integration with iCal & iPhone... hm.

Send an invitation via SMS and a 'yes' reply automagically adds it to iCal.

Integration with iPhoto & iPhone... hm.

Easily (read: one-click) sending of pictures from iPhoto to MMS-enabled phones. Hm.

Think of uses. No wait, think of the abuses, yeesh! Photo-porn spam! Yech!

Screed ...it's not gonna be great, it's not gonna be amazing, it's gonna be AMAZINGLY AMAZING

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>

Oh, oh.. oh.. my goodness.. :eek: Deep breaths. Retain composure. Hold in the excitement. Do not spooge pants. Retain the composure. :eek: :eek: :eek:

:eek:

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>1) You can get all that indeed, via WAP (since 2000), and I use it now and then. But I'm fairly geeky.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we knew that.

I seem to remember reading that this was a huge issue, though. In Japan, where this type of service was originally launched by DoCoMo, etc., nobody actually used them. They were first to get banking via WAP, but it was just too fiddly and nobody used the service.

It would take an enormous amount of collaboration between hardware/software manufacturers, networks, and service providers, and I think that we'd have heard something about this going on if Apple was about to release such a radical device. You can't sneak something like that out the back door.

I guess there is some scope for a crossover of Apple device + services, though, if Apple was to offer some kind of portal to other service providers.

I still think it's all a little improbable, though.

I've allowed myself to become a little more optimistic about the potential of Woz's little project. A PDA or cell phone with GPS that knows where you are would be very nice. So instead of having to search for the nearest movie theater, or bar, or store by address, I can just ask the device to find the nearest to where I'm standing.

Now don't forget about iChat will you sCreeDy ... I send you an IM. You're offline. No matter! You get it on your iPhone anyway. Or put it another way. I send you an SMS from the office. You're online, I don't pay for the message as it goes over the interweb.

[quote]Originally posted by sCreeD:
<strong>

Integration with iCal & iPhone... hm.

Send an invitation via SMS and a 'yes' reply automagically adds it to iCal.

Integration with iPhoto & iPhone... hm.

Easily (read: one-click) sending of pictures from iPhoto to MMS-enabled phones. Hm.

Think of uses. No wait, think of the abuses, yeesh! Photo-porn spam! Yech!

Screed ...it's not gonna be great, it's not gonna be amazing, it's gonna be AMAZINGLY AMAZING

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

two things:

first; the mobile-phone massive from digital hub is representing in force.

secondly; did anyone else read this and think: "IP telephony"?

Just wondering ...

second edit: what if this is going to be just an OS?

iPhone = Apple's symbian-based phone OS.

Capitalizing on a burgeoning market by making a superior OS run on all kinds of hardware... hmm... when have they had this chance before?

naaaah.

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>You're online, I don't pay for the message as it goes over the interweb.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But you'll still be paying a small fortune for GPRS and a subscription to Apple for its new services. If Apple won't give people an e-mail address for less than $99 a year, it's not going to give you services like this for nothing.
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>did anyone else read this and think: "IP telephony"?</strong><hr></blockquote>
But that wouldn't be in the AI spirit of ridiculously optimistic over-anticipation, would it now?

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>

I don't believe this is going to be WAP based. Doesn't make sense. WAP sucks. Using your wireless provider and tunnelling TCP/IP over it is the ticket. I think it is as simple as Sherlock Services (XML) on a very very cool cell phone. Maybe a phone with no regular buttons. Maybe something so innovative it refines how to interact with a phone.

I could see two phones, one for europe, the other for the states. US first though. Sorry. I can also see a GPS impended.

Marketing Ideas (top of my head):

Say Hello to iPhone.
You will never get lost again.
Don't leave home without it.

....you guys can come up with more ....

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
But that wouldn't be in the AI spirit of ridiculously optimistic over-anticipation, would it now? </strong><hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't know. I'm new around here.

&lt;--- just hit 100, woo!

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
I think we knew that.

I seem to remember reading that this was a huge issue, though. In Japan, where this type of service was originally launched by DoCoMo, etc., nobody actually used them. They were first to get banking via WAP, but it was just too fiddly and nobody used the service.

It would take an enormous amount of collaboration between hardware/software manufacturers, networks, and service providers, and I think that we'd have heard something about this going on if Apple was about to release such a radical device. You can't sneak something like that out the back door. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, they made SHITLOADS of money by the walled garden / integrated operator / manufacturer approach. Banking was boring, but gaming and other iMode sites were INCREDIBLY lucrative. It flopped in the UK and in Europe because they comprehensively fücked it up. I could tell you why ...

Believe me, you can sneak something like that out the back door.

I know because I did it: a UK / Taiwan / hardware / software / middleware jobby.

And actually, in the case of the device being proposed here, all you have to do is qualify a GSM data enabled device for use on a network ... standard procedure ... ALL the rest of it is taken care of by third party servers (ie .Mac) ...

All you're doing is shuttling data via http from one place to another, and there's no additional billing / integration with the networks what-so-ever. The software piece (phone - Mac) is actually very very very very easy if you use XML, ie SyncML.

There ARE some hardware / software issues, mainly display and getting enough welly out of the sort of processor normally found in a handset. But I've seen (and been involved with) enough similar projects, some of which didn't make it to market for commercial other then technological reasons, to know this is possible. And certainly if you "own" both ends of the widget.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
But you'll still be paying a small fortune for GPRS and a subscription to Apple for its new services. If Apple won't give people an e-mail address for less than $99 a year, it's not going to give you services like this for nothing]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Now here we're in agreement!

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>I wouldn't know. I'm new around here.

&lt;--- just hit 100, woo!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damned newbies.

I'm jealous. Your mere 109 makes you so young! I'm an old and wrinkly 1565 (which, ironically, is also the year of my birth).
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>Now here we're in agreement!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hehe. It's getting near Christmas, I'm getting that Grinchy feeling again.

Even if much of this stuff is possible, I think it takes a huge leap of the imagination to think that Apple has something like this ready to go within the next few months. There have been rumors over the years of these fantastical devices from Apple that would be so revolutionary, and yet not one has appeared. Mythical beasts, one and all.

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>

Now here we're in agreement!

Maybe I should add that one of the reasons for doing this is BRING DOWN data bills, as if you're in range of the computer you route as much as possible via iPhone --&gt; Bluetooth --&gt; Mac --&gt; internet --&gt; Mac --&gt; Bluetooth --&gt; your mate's mobile

Lowest cost routing of messaging.

Sorry for the multiple posting.

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Harald ]</p>

I remember i-Mode made DoCoMo cartloads of money.

Mostly gaming/ringtones/hello kitty stuff, probably.

It is Japan, after all...

The iPhone - which might get a very different name when introduced - isn't a mobile phone; it's a phone connectivity service. As with so many recent Apple introductions, it is mostly relevant for the US, since that is where the cross-over points between Internet and local phonelines will be introduced. The widespread practice in the States of letting local phone calls be free is to a large extent what makes the idea interesting.

The network will have three major components: Mac-to-other computers, Mac-to-fixed phones (the call is sent via a locally stationed computer), and Mac-to-SMS. The latter is more relevant in Europe, but only the countries that already have such a (non-Mac) service will be eligible.

These services will be tied in with the .mac package. Needless to say, using relevant software (faxSTF, etc), one can send faxes.

The Mac-to-Mac part will include voicemail, VoIP, and videophoning; however, all these things will probably introduced in several packages.

And Apple just MIGHT introduce a VERY elegant headset module (ear-/microphones), using the upcoming standard Bluetooth integration in new Macs - as an extra, of course. Long-term, Apple is working on renewing voice-command/dictation services in the OS (still discussing whether to invest a MAJOR pile of cash on such a risky software development project, or go out and acquire the rights from someone like, say, Philips), and that also demands such a device, of course.

But the stagnation looms large....

engpjp

[quote]Originally posted by engpjp:
<strong>The iPhone - which might get a very different name when introduced - isn't a mobile phone; it's a phone connectivity service...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmm, not going to happen. If I put this information into Photoshop, and apply a basic reality filter, we see the likelihood is that iPhone is a crappy collaboration and video conferencing tool available only to .Mac subscribers, that will also only talk to other .Mac subscribers.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Hmm, not going to happen. If I put this information into Photoshop, and apply a basic reality filter, we see the likelihood is that iPhone is a crappy collaboration and video conferencing tool available only to .Mac subscribers, that will also only talk to other .Mac subscribers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thats funny, I don't have a "reality" filter in my copy of Photoshop 7, but when I select "Render Difference Clouds" I get the same effect. Interesting.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>There have been rumors over the years of these fantastical devices from Apple that would be so revolutionary, and yet not one has appeared. Mythical beasts, one and all.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, again I have to agree. This is only happening if there's a very clear set of design-chain candidates. This includes the device OS. It 'needs' to be as revolutionary as the iPod or less.

But actually, I think it IS possible.

For example (and I mean example):

OS = Symbian
Clever .Mac integration = an Apple java engineering team
Hardware = someone obvious but small; we need the HW clout of a P800
Marketing = Apple
Design = Johnny Ives

I've seen and used iCal / Address Book / Bluetooth / mobile integration myself ALREADY, and I've seen the little green light next to a received email in Mail meaning I can iChat with the sender ... this inter-app and inter-mobile stuff works already. And "Mac to Mobile" is vocally a part of the strategy, as is extending .Mac functionality.

The stuff I'm spouting is blue skies I will admit, and I'm certain not all of this would make it into 1.0 ...

... but again, do yourself a favour and write a two-line email to yourself the week before iPod was introduced, and think how "revolutionary" you would have found a description of am auto-syncing MP3 player that also sync'd with the as-yet non existent Address Book and iCal, looked like God's widget and was the size of packet of fags ...

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>
Maybe I should add that one of the reasons for doing this is BRING DOWN data bills, as if you're in range of the computer you route as much as possible via iPhone --&gt; Bluetooth --&gt; Mac --&gt; internet --&gt; Mac --&gt; Bluetooth --&gt; your mate's mobile.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't a plain old headset (wired, not bluetooth) combined with an IP-Phone Software providing this already?

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>...looked like God's widget and was the size of packet of fags ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nice.

The point of a BT headset is the 10 meter range.

Screed

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>

Am I the only one thinking this might be iSync?

Anyhow, Ericsson now sells their hardware to others, for example SonyEricsson. So it is theoretically possible for Apple to buy the platform for P800 and dress it in an Apple-suit... Which would make them a competitor to SonyEricsson, not likely after MWNY imho.

[quote]Originally posted by NeM:
<strong>Am I the only one thinking this might be iSync?
...</strong><hr></blockquote>

:confused: Meaning that iPhone is the Australian trademark equivalent of iSync??

Screed

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>
... but again, do yourself a favour and write a two-line email to yourself the week before iPod was introduced, and think how "revolutionary" you would have found a description of am auto-syncing MP3 player that also sync'd with the as-yet non existent Address Book and iCal, looked like God's widget and was the size of packet of fags ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Forgive me for spoiling the party but I don't think the iPod ever was/is revolutionary. It's just an MP3 Player with some sync capabilities. And the next iDevice well be no different in that regard. Useful at best but not revolutionary.

[quote]Originally posted by sCreeD:
<strong>

:confused: Meaning that iPhone is the Australian trademark equivalent of iSync??

Screed

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think iPhone means iSync for Australian markets and others. Would you "sync" your iPod and Palm with your new "iPhone" software program? Doesn't make since.

iPhone is the next digital device. That's the most logical next step.

How about a USB/Bluetooth iPhone that connects via your Mac to your .mac account. And using ip'phone technology you can call all your buddies free.

[quote]Originally posted by sCreeD:
<strong>
:confused: Meaning that iPhone is the Australian trademark equivalent of iSync??

Screed
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, meaning they decided to develop the application before naming it and trademarked several possible names.
Perhaps it's first intended use was syncing adressbook with phones?

If this isn't plausible, please tell me why.

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: NeM ]</p>

Is registered EU wide too <a href="http://oami.eu.int/Search/Trademark/la/EN_TM_Detail.cfm?ID=002901007&CFID=1538792&CFTOKEN =12294086" target="_blank">here.</a>

Interestingly enough Cisco Systems seems to have registered that exact same trademark on 14.04.1998 as you can see <a href="http://oami.eu.int/Search/Trademark/la/EN_TM_Detail.cfm?ID=000796268&CFID=1538792&CFTOKEN =12294086" target="_blank">here</a>.

with this description:

List of goods and servicestComputer hardware and software for providing integrated telephone communication with computerized global information networks.\tÂ*

Sounds like something you guys have been dreaming up in this thread already way back then. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Insanely great indeed.

Kroehl

Also of note, the iPod was registered with this database on :

OCT 2, 2001

Apple introduced the iPod on :

OCT 23, 2001

Hmmmm.... are we set for MWSF or what?

[quote]Originally posted by othello:
<strong>the stumbling block to me is the amount of different phone formats/networks out there. Apple can't hope to support them all.

But what if this iPhone was not really a phone as we know it, but more of a messaging device. Something like a HipTop?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think your right. Why not a redevouz enabled voice over internet program which integrates with address book like i-chat does. Maybe so I can replace the long distance racket that exists in the US. -shrugs- at least a thought.

Imagine, simple telephony which actually WORKS! New 'net meeting' type programs, new uses for the everyone's idle DSL connections. If I can touch an application, then talk into the bluetooth headset and reach out to touch someone. wow! Or if you don't want the headset, you can use your old mic or sound input device. Maybe the program could have an answering machine also!

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: Not Unlike Myself ]</p>

Could it be that this is the long awaited iP_hone for the upcoming iKnife?

[quote]Originally posted by MacLuv:
<strong>Yes, but at least the iPod is somewhat cool.
Have you seen the iPhone prototype? It's Southpark Gay.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The iPhone picture was eventually debunked after lengthy discussion. If you look closely you can see cropped elelements of Apple PR shots of earlier products like the pro speakers.

By Gay, you mean good? Or maybe you just look like an idiot?

I would be one of the first in line to buy an iPhone. I've had instant messenging, email, and web access on my phone for a few years now. Yet, its only been used about twice. Its just a pain in the ass. These features are currently worthless and could definately be improved to the point where people might actually use them.

ahhhhHay 802.11 integration with cell networks!!!

Nortel Networks (NYSE:NT)(TSX:NT.) today announced the ability to provide
integrated solutions for wireless operators that will seamlessly link existing
and future Wireless Wide Area Networks (WWANs) with fast-emerging wireless
'hot spots,' also known as Wireless Local Area Networks (WLANs).
Nortel Networks integrated WWAN/ WLAN technology will give GSM, GPRS, UMTS
and CDMA wireless operators the opportunity to provide enterprises and
consumers with a single 'sign on' and seamless service between 2G/3G networks
and wireless hot spots. This solution will also give operators the capability
to provide consolidated billing, authentication and security without the need
to restructure existing network architectures.
This technology will help enable mobile workers