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post #361 of 553
No I think the sub-thread is that the shortcuts were re-mapped in the keyboard prefs pane from the default shortcuts to having command-n create a new folder, and option-command-n open a new window. The changes didn't take affect until the computer was restarted though.
post #362 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Did I read that correctly? Command-N now creates a new folder in the Panther Finder? That is damn good news if true, I must say.

no, i don't know what he was talking about, maybe the shortcuts pane in keyboard/mouse... but command N is still a new window in Panther last time i checked...
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post #363 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Did I read that correctly? Command-N now creates a new folder in the Panther Finder? That is damn good news if true, I must say.

No, I'm sorry if I confused you. With the new keyboards command pane of Mac OS X (see below), you can re-assign Menu commands or assign completely new commands to menu items that previously did not have a keyboard command. You can do this in any program. Anyways, I was trying this out, and frusterated because it didn't seem to work. After a restart, I was surprised when it unexpectedly snuck up on me So, command-n can create a new folder if you would like, or, if you would prefer, command-option-7 could, too :P

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post #364 of 553
oh that is cool
post #365 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by MacUsers
oh that is cool

You think so? If the user can modify the standard keyboard short cuts, he's modifying a standard. Do I have to point out the repercussions of this? It's great to create your own keyboard shortcuts, sure, but modifying a standard invites one to go out of communication with the rest.
post #366 of 553
well, i guess you are right, i would probably never use that because i already have like all the keyboard shortcuts memorized
post #367 of 553
It's standard until the user decides to change it for themselves.

This is no different than installing some 3rd party hack, and far better I might add.

Macs are multi user. So each user will have their own environment which starts out using the default standard keyboard commands.

This is not the situation you are imagining in which user A gets up and walks away and User B sits down and now Command-I is now Shutdown.

Sure, in settings where the users are sufficiently stubborn about having one account running for many users, then it might be a problem.

But I don't want the Mac to be limited by such people.

God, let's not let standards rule over us tyrannically. They are guidelines. Starting points. From there the user MUST have freedom to customise and make things easier for them.
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post #368 of 553
iPeon all I'm going to do is make Command N a new frickin folder like it's s'posed to! I make more folders than windows. I bet most other AIers are the same. Probably most Macs are going to start making new folders when you hit Cmd N. Macs are about customization baby! I read that you used Macs since the Lisa so you know this! And it's not like you couldn't do this with ResEdit, which wasn't much harder for seasoned users back in the day. I just said back in the day. Coooool.
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post #369 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by iPeon
You think so? If the user can modify the standard keyboard short cuts, he's modifying a standard. Do I have to point out the repercussions of this? It's great to create your own keyboard shortcuts, sure, but modifying a standard invites one to go out of communication with the rest.

Apple doesn't offer enough customizability! Waaaahhhhh!

Apple offers too much customizability! Waaahhhh!

Personal Computer!

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post #370 of 553
Quote:
Apple doesn't offer enough customizability! Waaaahhhhh!

Apple offers too much customizability! Waaahhhh!

Personal Computer!
!



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post #371 of 553
Heheh.. that was pretty good.

Either way, I see what was being said now. By default the shortcuts haven't changed but you have free-wheeling access to pretty much change any shortcut for any app that you want. On a user by user basis. THAT is pretty cool.

At the place I work the owner of the company and I split 2D design duties and though we use the same apps we follow different workflows. This would allow me to not only set up the palettes and such much way, but also the keyboard shortcuts. The thing I wonder about is, what happens when two users have the same document to work on. Does one open the original and the second person open a copy?

How are syncing issues handled / having the same file open at the same time in different user sessions?
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post #372 of 553
Since nobody bother answering my first post:

What changes are there in Print Center? Current Print Center just plain sucks. Any improvements?

Additionally,

When you select icon(s) in Panther do they actually appear to be selected. One of the worst GUI blunders of Jaguar.

Thanks
post #373 of 553
Dake K: Your questions as well as others have already been partially answered. Here's another quick reminder to everybody:

See page 3 and page 8 for a detailed list of screenshots.

Screenshots of printing are there. Screenshots of icon selection are there.
post #374 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Dake K: Your questions as well as others have already been partially answered. Here's another quick reminder to everybody:

See page 3 and page 8 for a detailed list of screenshots.

Screenshots of printing are there. Screenshots of icon selection are there.

Thanks for the icon selection screenshot. I don't care about print dialog boxes. I am looking for info on the Print Center (which has not been addressed at all).

Thanks
post #375 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave K.
I don't care about print dialog boxes. I am looking for info on the Print Center (which has not been addressed at all).

They didn't give you links to print dialog boxes... Just go there and maybe you'll see that what was PrintCenter is now in a Print/Fax Peference pane...
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post #376 of 553
Has anyone noticed if Panther is any better at keeping windows from popping up behind the dock, particularly in the Finder? For example, with the dock positioned on the left, Get Info windows always come up partially behind the dock, so I have to move the window to expand any of the tabs -- I find this very annoying. [If it's fixable in Jag, do let me in on the secret.]
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post #377 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
They didn't give you links to print dialog boxes... Just go there and maybe you'll see that what was PrintCenter is now in a Print/Fax Peference pane...

Currently the Print and Fax prefpane opens Print Center when you want to manage printers. However it is a good thing that access to the print center is put in the System Prefs, making it more accessible to new users.
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post #378 of 553
I don't have Panther running right now, so I can't double check any of this, but the Print Center is now divided into two parts. There's the Printer/Fax pane of the System Preferences, and there is the Printer Setup app that resembles the Print Center. I don't recall which do what, maybe someone else can fill you in more.
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post #379 of 553
I've been trying to find a Panther screenshot that illustrates what happens when you double-click on a folder in icon/no-toolbar mode. I've seen many claims that the Panther finder works "just like Mac OS 9" in this mode, and that the "spatial Finder is back." But nobody in any forum or article has satisfactorily explained this.

To me, and I would think to other people, one of the founding principles of the spatial Finder is a one-to-one relationship between windows and folders. That means that when you double-click a folder, it doesn't just open a new window, it becomes the new window. The folder icon you clicked on is now grayed out, and only one window can represent its contents. That's the way it worked before Mac OS X. Since then, you've been able to have multiple windows showing the same folder's contents, which is cool in column view, but can get confusing, especially to beginning users, in basic icon view.

Here it is in Mac OS 9



Notice the grayed-out folder icons indicating that the window is already open.

Here it is in Jaguar



Notice how in Jaguar, I'm able to have two identical windows open for the Users folder, and the fact that there is no way to tell by looking at the folder icon that a window is already open displaying its contents.

I wonder if someone could post a screenshot showing how this works in Panther.
post #380 of 553
Panther doesn't grey out open folder icons.

However, it is a true spatial Finder, not just the spartan Finder in Jaguar. You can only have one window for a folder open at a time etc.

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post #381 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Barto
Panther doesn't grey out open folder icons.

Hmm.. thanks. I just thought of a quartz effect for this. What if the folder flapped open when you double-clicked it, spitting its contents out genie-style into a new window? The folder in the background would remain visible, but with an open flap. Then, closing the window would suck the contents back into its host folder, and close the flap.

Ah, sounds more like a Longhorn animation, I guess...
post #382 of 553
Is the ability to view one folder's contents in many windows gone in Panther?

Wait, I -want- to be able to have several simultaneous views on the same folder if I want to. All you spacial Finder literalists/purists need to do is not open 2 folders pointing to the same content if it bothers you. You don't need to make my Finder limited and limit my workflow.

For instance I routinely have 2 windows open on the same folder. One in icon view so I can cluster files in little bunches and another window in list view sorted by date.

Quit trying to limit the Mac. Multiple views onto a given location is not a bad thing. If it's not in the original Macintosh Human Interface Guidlines, too bad. They were always meant to be guidelines that Apple can expand upon as they see fit. They have. And it is useful.
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post #383 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Reid
I wonder if someone could post a screenshot showing how this works in Panther.

WOW
I was skeptical about this being changed in panther, but I just checked... when you hide the toolbars it does behave spatially... you can only have one window open for each folder... and after you open a folder it stays selected like OS 9 did, but the icon does not change... I would post screenshots, but I am having a bit of trouble with my iDisk and panther on one of my machines so I'd rather sort that out first... maybe brad?

oh and you can still see the same folder in more then one view... you just need to keep the toolbar toggled...
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post #384 of 553
Good call johnq. I think was actually a good thing to dump from Classic. The greying out to show that folder IS OPEN though was nice. Same for running Applications. That should come back, maybe with some neato way of doing it. And Reid that's actually a cool idea, for QE enabled G4s that could handle it. I mean it sort of does that now, with windows scaling out of folders they're opening from. That would be a neat thing to put in Window Prefs. And yes again there should be an indication that file/folder/app is open. Shading, something, I don't know.

When you hide apps do their icons go transclucent in Panther? Mine do but I think that was a hidden feature I enabled when I made my Dock transparent (another thing that would be a nice option in Panther! How many of us have our Docks transparent. Raise your hands!)
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post #385 of 553
I do! (but only on my jag machine)
I also have the hack enabled from cocktail to make hidden apps translucent... this is on all of my machines...
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post #386 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
When you hide apps do their icons go transclucent in Panther?

Nope. And it is default in Jag for them to go transparent, but there's a tinkertool that fixes that. I was happy to see that one changed
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post #387 of 553
Quote:
For instance I routinely have 2 windows open on the same folder. One in icon view so I can cluster files in little bunches and another window in list view sorted by date.

I wonder if both camps could be satisfied by allowing the user to split a window into two panes, as is done in word processors. You get a one-to-one ratio between folders and their windows, you can keep spatial organisation and you can view the same folder multiple times. That idea would probably make things more complicated than ever though.
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post #388 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by bauman
Nope. And it is default in Jag for them to go transparent

What?

The default in Jaguar 10.2.6 is still to leave them opaque.
post #389 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
What?

The default in Jaguar 10.2.6 is still to leave them opaque.

OK. So I'm just Mr. Wrong. Sorry about that. I double checked. The option in tinkertool is to turn them transparent, not opaque. GRRR. I should really double check things before I post.
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post #390 of 553
Has anyone tested the new DVD player? Have they finally enabled hardware decoding (for supported GPU's)? How much of CPU cycles is taking?
post #391 of 553
heh, i have just noticed that panther brings back an old issue with Terminal.app ... everybody remembers that text-drop shadow-ghosting-issue when scrolling in semi-transparent windows? yep, it found it´s way back ... funny, no?

still it´s kinda funny to be able to set a background picture in terminal windows... 8)
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post #392 of 553
What about Arabic and Hebrew keyboard layouts and typing?

I have lots of friends in Middle Eastern studies and the fact that there is basically no solution for them with X doesnt make em very happy.

Mellel supports right to left, but its a pain in the ass to set up...
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post #393 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Has anyone tested the new DVD player? Have they finally enabled hardware decoding (for supported GPU's)? How much of CPU cycles is taking?

I've used the DVD player in 10.3. It's very nice.... actually, for some reason, the DVD player in 10.2 isn't working for me, so I reboot into 10.3 when I want to watch a DVD... it's a little backwards if you ask me!

I never looked into how many CPU cycles it's taking, but it always runs without a glitch on my iMac G4 800 15".
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post #394 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by bauman

I never looked into how many CPU cycles it's taking, but it always runs without a glitch on my iMac G4 800 15".

I am not sure if the iMac's GPU has hardware decoding capabilities for MPEG-2. I am almost certain that at least the Powerbook 12" GPU has this capability. If this feature is enabled in Panther, then in "top" the CPU usage of DVD player should be pretty low. In Jaguar it is about 30%.
post #395 of 553
So that would boost the time we can watch DVDs on PBG4 12"s. I would be all for that!

Mellel is so cool though isn't it ZO? It actually makes Metal look not half bad.
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post #396 of 553
In one of the screenshots at the beginning of this thread, it shows a selection for right to left typing in textedit.
post #397 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
WOW
I was skeptical about this being changed in panther, but I just checked... when you hide the toolbars it does behave spatially... you can only have one window open for each folder... and after you open a folder it stays selected like OS 9 did, but the icon does not change... I would post screenshots, but I am having a bit of trouble with my iDisk and panther on one of my machines so I'd rather sort that out first... maybe brad?

oh and you can still see the same folder in more then one view... you just need to keep the toolbar toggled...

Neat.

How does Panther show that a folder is open, if the icon isn't grayed out?
post #398 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Hobbes
How does Panther show that a folder is open

It doesn't.
post #399 of 553
it stays selected after you open it, but you can go back an de-select that folder, much like in 9... one difference is that if you select the background of the window it does NOT select the appropriate folder in the parent folder...(it doesn't select anything... in 9 it would select the folder you are clicking in the background of...

so in short it doesn't...
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post #400 of 553
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
So that would boost the time we can watch DVDs on PBG4 12"s. I would be all for that!

I am not sure about battery time, since the GPU still needs energy to do the decoding. The point of hardware decoding is to be able to watch a DVD while the processor is free to work in the background (compiling or processing or whatever). It is a pity to have this technology sitting there and doing nothing as it is right now.
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