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Bad Intelligence. Uh oh  

post #1 of 272
Thread Starter 
Flame away, AI-o-lites, you know of what I speak, or will soon enough.

PS.

I still think the war was a good one in my Machiavellian apraisal, but I was never deluded by WOMD, nukes, or freedom.
IBL!
IBL!
post #2 of 272
Hmm.. what's worse?

A blowjob or lying to the american people (and the world) to start a war.

Ahhh. times were so much simpler back then...
post #3 of 272
the real question is whether or not they would have gone through with the war if they had NOT had this "bad" intelligence...
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People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
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People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
post #4 of 272
I don't think there's any question about it.
post #5 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
I still think the war was a good one in my Machiavellian apraisal, but I was never deluded by WOMD, nukes, or freedom.

ditto me on that as well.
there is no question in my mind
that the world is better off
without that prick being in power,
however, the real question will
be to see if iraq is able to join
the rest of the world or fall
into a worse situation than before.
post #6 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by running with scissors
ditto me on that as well.
there is no question in my mind
that the world is better off
without that prick being in power,

I'll be saying that when Bush jr gets tossed out.

Quote:
however, the real question will
be to see if iraq is able to join
the rest of the world or fall
into a worse situation than before.

Agreed, because CHANGE AND PROGRESS ARE NOT THE SAME THING. How sad would it be if Iraqis pined for the good old days of Saddam when they had jobs and homes and a life.

Sorry, didn't mean to shout.
post #7 of 272
Matsu, re: topic, a link or three would be nice.

Second, bullshit. The CIA has _nothing_ to gain by fabricating intelligence suggesting Iraq is an immediate threat to anyone (except mb Iran). The Admin presented only 'facts' that furthered their quest for oil, er, war, and swept the vast piles of evidence to the contrary under the carpet. Ditto for England. This was a conscious, deliberate, calculated move.

Pinning it all on the intelligence agencies is a cheap shot, designed to pass the blame to those who aren't voted in/out of power.
post #8 of 272
post #9 of 272
Quote:
"The White House statement fanned a smoldering controversy over whether the U.S. and British governments manipulated intelligence about weapons of mass destruction to make the case for war against Iraq. So far, no evidence of such weapons has been found by U.S. and coalition forces."
post #10 of 272
OK, here we go:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3056626.stm

That's what I'm talking about.
post #11 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
Flame away, AI-o-lites, you know of what I speak, or will soon enough.

PS.

I still think the war was a good one in my Machiavellian apraisal, but I was never deluded by WOMD, nukes, or freedom.

"Never deluded by freedom"

...Oh dear...Sounds like something straight out of good ol George Dubbya's mouth..
Maybe your his secret speech writer.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #12 of 272
Quote:
I'll be saying that when Bush jr gets tossed out

Read my lips! 4 more years. No, W is getting re-elected, he make too many conservatives happy to get tossed. Plus, despite naysayers his team is too savy to get trounced by the stones thrown at his administration. What Bush may lack in intellectualism he more than makes up for in his saviness.

As for bad intelligence, I can believe that, our foreign intelligence as of late has had to rely heavily on outside sources, most of our intelligence community for the past 50 years has been focused internally.

As for the reasons we went to Iraq, the administration went to prove a point, that the USA could still kick some ass. Was it right politically, I don't know, but screw the French and the Germans, they were playing their own political games to secure their economic interests in Iraq, they didn't have a moral leg to stand on from the word go.

War is ugly, I'd prefer if it went the way of the dodo, esp since they are still sending SF into Iraq, I've got family that I'd rather see out of harm's way.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
post #13 of 272
Its all lies! How dare you say something negative about our great leader Bush, the president, who have shown huge courage and will lead our great country into a bright future by showing a firm stance against all our enemies. Bush could never lie to our population</kraig911>errr....no make that</Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf>
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
post #14 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Its all lies! How dare you say something negative about our great leader Bush, the president, who have shown huge courage and will lead our great country into a bright future by showing a firm stance against all our enemies. Bush could never lie to our population</kraig911>errr....no make that</Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf>

Remember this Bush campaign slogan: I WILL RESTORE HONOR AND INTEGRITY TO THE WHITE HOUSE!



Man, I miss the good ol' days when we were all arguing about the legality of a blowjob while checking to see how much our portfolios went up.

EDIT: TYPO
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #15 of 272
Maybe it wasn't bad intelligence as much as low intelligence.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...otu/index.html
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #16 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Man, I miss the good ol' days when we were all arguing about the legality of a blowjob while checking to see how much our portfolios went up.

The good old days...
post #17 of 272
Lets face it. The 90s were the heydays of our generation(s). </neo-nostalgic mode>
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
post #18 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Its all lies! How dare you say something negative about our great leader Bush, the president, who have shown huge courage and will lead our great country into a bright future by showing a firm stance against all our enemies. Bush could never lie to our population</kraig911>errr....no make that</Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf>

Since when did Sweden, Denmark & Finland become states of the USA ?
Or is that the United States of Anders ?
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #19 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by aquafire
Since when did Sweden, Denmark & Finland become states of the USA ?

Ever since that monkey in the whitehouse got elected...

oh wait... that is a result the war he starts in his SECOND term which hasn't happened yet... be on the lookout for reports of WOMD hidden in Anders' kickass high-bandwidth apartment..
125/51041 (top .2449%)-Amie Street - awesome independent DRM-free music
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
125/51041 (top .2449%)-Amie Street - awesome independent DRM-free music
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
post #20 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
Ever since that monkey in the whitehouse got elected...

oh wait... that is a result the war he starts in his SECOND term which hasn't happened yet... be on the lookout for reports of WOMD hidden in Anders' kickass high-bandwidth apartment..

yeah, How about it Anders..lets party...We can do a re-enactment of "A poke calypso now " or better still....
Spielberg directing, Tom Hanks ...in... "Looking for Colonel (s)Anders..."
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #21 of 272
Quote:
The good old days...

originally posted by Der Kopf

Good old days, my arse. Back then I was a poor skinny asian college student that had trouble getting laid, these days I'm still a poor skinny asian college student having trouble getting laid, little less hair and a lot more bills now. Right now I'd like to be in a good ol' daze.

Clinton hadn't done shitte for slightly above poverty level Asians and neither has Bush. So screw em both, I'm voting for the Wachoski Bros next time.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
post #22 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidR
originally posted by Der Kopf
Clinton hadn't done shitte for slightly above poverty level Asians and neither has Bush.

Asian you say..hmmm....that covers a lot of turf..including Russia, India & Israel...
So are you a Jewish Vietnamese Cossack from Rajistan...?
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #23 of 272
Korean mostly, also Black Irish and Scotch Irish. But mostly Korean. All hail Kim Chee!!!
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
post #24 of 272
Quote:
be on the lookout for reports of WOMD hidden in Anders' kickass high-bandwidth apartment..

sorry Ander's I just have to say it, don't forget about the human rights violations he's been performing on himself
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
post #25 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidR
sorry Ander's I just have to say it, don't forget about the human rights violations he's been performing on himself

Well the truth is that my cable is broad (and long) enough to do some serious damage to some seriously deep but willing pipe-lines so I guess its fair to call it a WoMD.

...Or do I misunderstand the combination of WoMDs and hardware above

PS: The above is of course partly incorrect.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
post #26 of 272
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
post #27 of 272
While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
post #28 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Yep..that just about sums it all up...Pity America didn't do it for Hitler..and all the other apologists & appeasers of the third reich.
End of discussion Click....
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #29 of 272
Yes, but the possibility of him still being alive and having got away with all that cash, and who knows what else may make Saddam even more dangerous. Hopefully he decides to retire peacefully at beachside villa in Argentina.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
post #30 of 272
Quote:
While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Your disconnect with the current state of affairs and recent (100 years) history is alarming. You watch too much American television.
post #31 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
Your disconnect with the current state of affairs and recent (100 years) history is alarming. You watch too much American television.

So perhaps you'd like to enlighten us....

But B4 you do that, you might want to take a peek at this.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
Click link for full details....


There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #32 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
Quote:
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Your disconnect with the current state of affairs and recent (100 years) history is alarming. You watch too much American television.

Rather than making pathetic attempts at guessing my lifestyle, would you care to elaborate as to where lies my alleged disconnect from current affairs and recent history?

[And only because I'm feeling moderately good natured today, some information on the genocidal campaign known as Anfal .]
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
« Jparle pas aux cons, ça les instruit. »

From Les Tontons Flingueurs


חברים יש רק באגד
post #33 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
[B]Your disconnect with the current state of affairs and recent (100 years) history is alarming. You watch too much American television.

Judging by his tag name....1337..et al I can only guess his reciever/transmitter is a little bit bent..otherwise all that living in misty climes has fogged his brains...
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
There are 3 types of people in the world.

Those who count.

&

Those who can't.
post #34 of 272
who'd of thought that George W and Tony Blair would be associated with "lacking inteligence".
I'm old enough to remember when taping was killing the music industry ... computers just make piracy damned expensive.
I'm old enough to remember when taping was killing the music industry ... computers just make piracy damned expensive.
post #35 of 272
I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to save the address of this thread, perhaps even archive it....so that the next time someone here tells me that AI isn't extradordinarly liberal I'll have it to reference.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #36 of 272
Good Lord SDW! You are joking right?
post #37 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to save the address of this thread, perhaps even archive it....so that the next time someone here tells me that AI isn't extradordinarly liberal I'll have it to reference.



Oh god that's rich!


Well, maybe not quite all 50 states.

PS. Still in check.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #38 of 272
this thread seems liberal because only liberals are posting in it. nothing for Bush supporters to say. he was caught with his pants down regarding this intelligence report.

end of story.
post #39 of 272
Quote:
Originally posted by Longhorn
this thread seems liberal because only liberals are posting in it. nothing for Bush supporters to say. he was caught with his pants down regarding this intelligence report.

end of story.

Oh! I'm so speechless! Liar Liar pants on fire! Out the door in 2004!

You just don't get it. This story has been TAKEN AWAY by the White House. You don;t honestly think that Bush's teeam is going to let him take the fall on this, do you? Let's be real here.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #40 of 272
Quote:
An intelligence consultant who was present at two White House briefings where the uranium report was discussed confirmed that the President was told the intelligence was questionable and that his national security advisors urged him not to include the claim in his State of the Union address.

"The report had already been discredited," said Terrance J. Wilkinson, a CIA advisor present at two White House briefings. "This point was clearly made when the President was in the room during at least two of the briefings."

Bush's response was anger, Wilkinson said.

"He said that if the current operatives working for the CIA couldn't prove the story was true, then the agency had better find some who could," Wilkinson said. "He said he knew the story was true and so would the world after American troops secured the country."

now granted we don't know for sure if the above quote is accurate, but it certainly sounds plausable.

odds are excellent that Bush knew the intel was shaky. he used it anyway. they are now confirming this intel wasn't true. Bush has egg on his face.

i've said nothing about elections or whether or not there will be a "witch hunt" or that he'll take the fall for anything.

i'm simply stating that there's no point for Bush supporters to comment/defend him in this instance because there's nothing to defend. unless of course you want to sink to the level of "it depends on what the definition of is is" type arguments.

politicians are human. Bush is not a saint. he can and will lie, or use information to further his agenda that he knows is sketchy at best. why are you defending that behavior?

odds are the only honest president we ever had was Carter, and look how well that worked for him.
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