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Jobs: We've got a few things up our sleeve in the desktop area

post #1 of 133
Thread Starter 
CEO Steve Jobs just appeared on CNBC's Business Center. He was confronted about sagging desktop sales, given Apple's recent proclamation that 2003 was the year of the laptop. He said, "We've got a few things up our sleeve in the desktop area." This can only mean the 970. What else would there be? All right! Bring it on!
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post #2 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by DHagan4755:
<strong>CEO Steve Jobs just appeared on CNBC's Business Center. He was confronted about sagging desktop sales, given Apple's recent proclamation that 2003 was the year of the laptop. He said, "We've got a few things up our sleeve in the desktop area." This can only mean the 970. What else would there be? All right! Bring it on!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I watched this too, Steve seemed very upbeat about Apple but concerned with the economy. He didnt say much about Apple gaining market share except that if Apple releases innovative products then the installed base buys. He also commented on how Dell and Apple are the only computer makers making money. All in all a good interview and that last comment about the "a few things up our sleeves in the desktop area" bodes well.
post #3 of 133
Not necessarily. It means bumped iMacs at better prices in month or so and in the Spring Powermacs with possible 970 chips although they have not as yet gone into production as I understand. IBM only show prototypes. It takes months to get into production where yields are sufficent. And prices will be high in the beginning.
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post #4 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by MacsRGood4U:
<strong>Not necessarily. It means bumped iMacs at better prices in month or so and in the Spring Powermacs with possible 970 chips although they have not as yet gone into production as I understand. IBM only show prototypes. It takes months to get into production where yields are sufficent. And prices will be high in the beginning.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you always this positive?
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post #5 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>

Are you always this positive?</strong><hr></blockquote>

His comment would have been among the more positive a week ago.

Lets not get carried away just because of the best keynote ever
post #6 of 133
"a few things up our sleeve" would probably be considered new and innovative, not simple upgrades, especially considering the context.
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post #7 of 133
Hmm. When reading his comment again it strikes me that you weren´t sarcastic. 970s in spring? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

What year are we talking about?
post #8 of 133
Doubt me not. When I told everyone the 3-d graphics engine readily available in GF cards would be put to work drawing the interface, ye scoffed, you all bandied about "Raycer chips"

Then I told you there must be a 1899-1999 powerbook, again you laughed, but here it is.

Now I'm telling you this. The AIO concept is done. Not this year or next, but in 4-5 years, they're done. There's no reason to lock into an unexpandable machine when you can get one that travels with you. There has to be an expandable consumer machine. Not yet. Steve's only talking about chip and price changes for the pro and consumer lines right now, but in a couple of years it will be a different game. A volley in that general direction may materialize this year, it would be profitable (if priced right).
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post #9 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>Now I'm telling you this. The AIO concept is done. Not this year or next, but in 4-5 years, they're done. There's no reason to lock into an unexpandable machine when you can get one that travels with you. There has to be an expandable consumer machine. Not yet. Steve's only talking about chip and price changes for the pro and consumer lines right now, but in a couple of years it will be a different game. A volley in that general direction may materialize this year, it would be profitable (if priced right).</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree completely. But what do you want to bet that the first step in this was actually convincing people to carry little hard drives around with them?

Cheers
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post #10 of 133
[quote]Lets not get carried away just because of the best keynote ever <hr></blockquote>

No, it's...

Best. Keynote. Ever.®

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: scottiB ]</p>
post #11 of 133
Damn I wanted to watch that and forgot to do it! Shit!
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post #12 of 133
Did he smile when he said that? Or was he at least confident? If so, then that's all I need to know that this is going to be a great year.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: KidRed ]</p>
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post #13 of 133
[quote] Did he smaile when he said that? Or was he at least confident? If so, then that's all I need to know that this is going to be a great year. <hr></blockquote>

This is taking analysis to far. Do you really think SJ thought his comment through this much. Can you image how much pressure you would be under if every facial expression you made some how had an implied meaning?
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post #14 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by jante99:
<strong>

This is taking analysis to far. Do you really think SJ thought his comment through this much. Can you image how much pressure you would be under if every facial expression you made some how had an implied meaning?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, facial expressions do imply plenty, along with eye fixation when speaking or answering a question. If he mumbled or hestitated then that's bad, if he leans back with a smile it's very good. It's actually better that Steve doesn't think it through because you get a better answer based on his behaviors.
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post #15 of 133
shit...i kinda agree with Matsu :eek: ... but i think only pros and geeks will have desktops 3 or 4 years from now....we will all have laptops at home...large display ones (17" or more) for people with only one computer (it is the home computer that you take to grandmas or here or there...but home 90% of the time)....and people that use their computer on the go a lot (students, teachers, etc) will also have a 12" portable.....desktops will be passe and the AIO of the future you can see today (they are the PBs)...g

ps...like in my home...i have an iMac800 superdrive....i am thinking i might want that 12" PB....but i rarely need a portable....now if i was in the market for a computer at home i would get the 17" PB....i would use it just like this iMac, but, if i needed to, i could take it to work or a friends or wherever.....now somebody need a nice holder for the PB that doubles as a hub....add some FW and FW 800 ports, a few USB for a mouse and keyboard and printer and make the stand mobile like the iMac arm....that would be a sweet home system.....leave the towers for movie pros, audio pros and geeks that love to update video cards....leave the laptops to the rest of us....g

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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post #16 of 133
Thread Starter 
He started his answer by talking about how they're commencing the new year with innovative, new laptop offerings. But then he looked confidently and directly at the camera when he made the statement. It was said with a sense of matter of factness.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: DHagan4755 ]</p>
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #17 of 133
Bring it on Jobs, Give us 970 , faster speed and lower prices for the iMac!!
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post #18 of 133
If it isn't a reasonably priced tower then forget about it. A slightly less expensive iMac or eMac won't do squat for Apple.

Its amazing that a guy supposedly as bright as Jobs can't see that its the one thing holding them back. A girl I work with who has built her own PC and owns a PC said she would buy a Mac if they came out with a consumer tower. I would buy one in a minute and they would fly off the shelves.

Apple has succeeded in convincing many people that OSX is superior to Winblows. Now all they need is to stop already with the all in ones and give people what THEY really want, not what Jobs wants-a reasonably priced upgradeable tower! The G4's are just an unbelieveable ripoff................................
post #19 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
[QBNow all they need is to stop already with the all in ones and give people what THEY really want, not what Jobs wants-a reasonably priced upgradeable tower! The G4's are just an unbelieveable ripoff................................[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Yes, the towers are a rip off...but I think there's still a market for all in ones. Not everyone is technically minded to drop cards into slots or drives into bays.
They just need something to surf and play games on. An iMac does this perfectly....it's just too expensive right now.
Perhaps instead of a consumer tower, there is some innovative way to drop one expandable slot into the iMac's dome base.
(didn't one rev. of the gumdrop iMac's have a card slot?)
post #20 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by DHagan4755:
<strong>He started his answer by talking about how they're commencing the new year with innovative, new laptop offerings. But then he looked confidently and directly at the camera when he made the statement. It was said with a sense of matter of factness.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: DHagan4755 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Excellent. They showed the clip on HNN, but i guess it was edited because the desktops weren't mentioned and the host Renae said "we'll wait and see what's up Apple's sleeves" at the end. Nice publicity tho, Steve and the pBooks showing every 1/2 hour on HNN
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post #21 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

Excellent. They showed the clip on HNN, but i guess it was edited because the desktops weren't mentioned and the host Renae said "we'll wait and see what's up Apple's sleeves" at the end. Nice publicity tho, Steve and the pBooks showing every 1/2 hour on HNN </strong><hr></blockquote>

also, recall that renae (sp?) just recently switched to the 15" TiBook at the urging of a friend. so he is definitely on apple's side... (rant begins) not like that spikey-haired dork they have in the mornings. good god, i want to smack him... with robin meade... every morning. it's like they let a high school senior class run the national morning news... ugh (rant over)
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post #22 of 133
maybe we'll get 970 powerbooks late this year! i could deal with that. i wouldn't even miss my desktop if i had lapzilla!
post #23 of 133
I'm afraid I just don't understand the infatuation with laptops... small keyboards which are fixed relative to the machine, displays mounted to the back of the keyboard, etc. Sure you can carry them around, but ergonomically they are a nightmare. I don't think the AIO concept is any less valid than it was a couple of years ago, and it won't be any less invalid a couple of years from now -- especially with the ergonomic improvements that the iMac2 brought with it. Sure there are a few markets that would prefer a tower but the market that just wants to buy a machine and use it as-is is much larger.
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post #24 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>I'm afraid I just don't understand the infatuation with laptops... small keyboards which are fixed relative to the machine, displays mounted to the back of the keyboard, etc. Sure you can carry them around, but ergonomically they are a nightmare. I don't think the AIO concept is any less valid than it was a couple of years ago, and it won't be any less invalid a couple of years from now -- especially with the ergonomic improvements that the iMac2 brought with it. Sure there are a few markets that would prefer a tower but the market that just wants to buy a machine and use it as-is is much larger.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree programer. I have used Laptops, and like them, but they are not a full replacement for a desktop. Also a laptop is not a "hub" becouse a "hub" is a fixed element in a network. It might serve as a nice entry point for a network, but dosnt replace it. Will it change from the current iMac, possibly but I dont think that this invalidates the AIO platform.

One of my major concerns right now is that I see product "bloat" happening at Apple. 3 AIO's, iMac "Classic" eMac iMac 15" FP and iMac 17" FP. 5 laptops, iBook 12", 14" PB 12" 15" and 17". It is a nice variety, but they are risking the problems that Apple eliviated when Jobs came on board.

And the bigest concern, as a stock holder and fan of the products, is that we still dont see a clear strategy beyond the G4. Jobs has stated that in 2003 "we will have options" but has yet to clarify that statement. Yes I know the 970 will be here (remember what they say about assmptioins), and the G4 RM as well, but no mention of them yet. I imagiine that developers are getting a little concerned as well, will Apple choose the 970, move to X86, or choose a direction that is out of left field? Hopefully this will be cleared up in the near future, and that will herold a return to competative desktop performance in the consumer and pro lines within the next 12 months, but I dont know that I see it with what we know today.
post #25 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>I'm afraid I just don't understand the infatuation with laptops... small keyboards which are fixed relative to the machine, displays mounted to the back of the keyboard, etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well programmer, I can say that as a programmer myself, that I enjoy getting out of the office so that I can do my work somewhere where I am not distracted (e.g. a Starbucks). Also, when I work at home, it is far more convenient to take my laptop home than to move an external hard drive between a home and work computer. (setting up a home desktop with a full build environment would be a pain)

As for the disadvantages of an AIO, I would say that they aren't that bad. My laptop keyboard is better than the Dell keyboard on my work desktop, and my screen isn't that bad (1600x1200 at 15 inches- a UXGA screen).

My laptop is the first laptop that I have ever had (work provided), and I like the laptop lifestyle so much that I would never go back to owning a desktop as my primary machine.
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post #26 of 133
The same things that can make an AIO cheap also wil make laptops cheap.

Who's the hub, you or your machine? That's the laptop difference, it follows you, not the other way around. You can always "dock" your laptop when you get home.

Now, if AIO's were expandable, CPU, GPU, easily replaceable drives, fast I/O (yes, faster than today's) or very very cheap, then they'll survive, and certainly there's still a valid case for them today and next year, but the writing is on the wall, it's as plain as the 17" PB. A 20$ stand can solve the monitor height issue and with bluetooth a keyboard and mouse are a simple wireless dock away from ergonomic bliss.
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post #27 of 133
Steve jobs can be overly optimistic. I suspect this means ony something slightly better than what would be expected in the next revision of the powermac and the 970 for the following revision.
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post #28 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>I'm afraid I just don't understand the infatuation with laptops... small keyboards which are fixed relative to the machine, displays mounted to the back of the keyboard, etc. Sure you can carry them around, but ergonomically they are a nightmare.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree completely with you. I really dislike laptops and don't see them as any better than an AIO. Over the past year though I found there were a lot of times when I wasn't at my desk that I wished I had a laptop with me. That's just a case of wanting to access certain things while mobile and better use time though.

An AIO was still the best choice from my point of view when it came to selecting a computer for my mother though. She will never upgrade anything, except RAM that I already maxed, and mobility isn't what she's after. Screen size and quality are important though as are ergonomics and simplicity.

What I might be able to see is computing relying on servers and networking built into the house itself so only a monitor and keyboard is required for an access point around the house. That's a more high cost solution though.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
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post #29 of 133
Apple should have made that 17" powerbook with a thin detachable keyboard so your hands aren't right up to the screen when you type at your desk. While we're on the subject of keyboards, there's more than enough room for a number pad! Why not include one and make it a true desktop replacement? That would have been a clincher.
post #30 of 133
The AIO is not done. When you buy a laptop you make a few concessions. Your HDD will be slower and less spacious. Your LCD will be dimmer. Your other components will be a step or two behind their desktop counterparts all the while being more expensive.

As long as AIO computers are cheaper than laptops and towers they will sell. Gateway has the Profile 4. Sony has the W-Series. I hear HP is also brewing an all-in-one Media Center PC.
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post #31 of 133
Then your hands would be off to one side and probably unbalance the machine if you did use it on your lap. And it's not so huge that you wouldn't use it on your lap at least once or twice. They could pull the keyboard a touch further away from the screen though, or put a number pad off to the side, where a speaker grill currently sits, if they don't mind a little asymmetry, perhaps the mac aesthetes would scoff. Centering a keboard with numberpad would put you hands off to the side most of the time, which is a worse solution?

Eug,

It's not done yet, I say it's got about 4-5 years left, which is very long term I think, and mebbe longer if they get cheap and internally upgradeable. But as computing power in general increases, and more and more tasks fall within the capabilities of a laptop, I see Apple's AIO formula losing favor with consumers who will favor laptops when choosing a basically sealed unit.
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post #32 of 133
I'm sure a detachable keyboard would cost a ton to replace.

I prefer hooking up a USB keyboard and mouse to my Laptop when I'm home using it at a desk or table. YMMV
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post #33 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Bancho:
<strong>I'm sure a detachable keyboard would cost a ton to replace.

I prefer hooking up a USB keyboard and mouse to my Laptop when I'm home using it at a desk or table. YMMV</strong><hr></blockquote>
?

The only thing connecting my keyboard to my PowerBook is a thin ribbon cable. How expensive would it be to use a retractable wire and an easy to release mechanism to place your keyboard farther from you monitor?
post #34 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
[QB]Then your hands would be off to one side and probably unbalance the machine if you did use it on your lap. And it's not so huge that you wouldn't use it on your lap at least once or twice. They could pull the keyboard a touch further away from the screen though, or put a number pad off to the side, where a speaker grill currently sits, if they don't mind a little asymmetry, perhaps the mac aesthetes would scoff. Centering a keboard with numberpad would put you hands off to the side most of the time, which is a worse solution?
[QB]<hr></blockquote>
That's true, i didn't think of that. The thing is hugely wide. It wouldn't be as much an issue with a 17" screen but it may be a little disorienting at first. I just think it would be cool to disconnect the keyboard from the machine and use it via Bluetooth. i know, I know, pipedream
post #35 of 133
I would suspect that for most families, a laptop will always be the second computer, if they can even afford a second computer.

Me personally, I would really love a laptop to shuttle back and forth to work, but I can only afford one computer. If it were a laptop, and I take it to work, my wife would have no computer at home for her needs, which are considerable in view of all the organizations she belongs to, PTA's, etc.

Maybe my family is in the minority, but I was just wondering how many families have multiple computers, making a laptop purchase more attractive.
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post #36 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>It's not done yet, I say it's got about 4-5 years left, which is very long term I think, and mebbe longer if they get cheap and internally upgradeable. But as computing power in general increases, and more and more tasks fall within the capabilities of a laptop, I see Apple's AIO formula losing favor with consumers who will favor laptops when choosing a basically sealed unit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But my point is that unless there is a very fundamental change in the nature of the laptop then they cannot replace any desktop. The screen and keyboard are too close together. After using a laptop for 10 minutes I need to visit a chiropractor. The only way this can change is if the laptop's display is moved to wherre my eyes/neck want it, and the keyboard moves to where my hands want it.

If you said that portable computers may replace desktop machines eventually, then I might agree with you. We're quite a ways off from having projected or eye-mounted displays, and non-conventional keyboard inputs, however. 4-5 years is probably optmistic for replacement, although I suppose we could see prototypes in that time frame.

I also think you overrate the need in the general market for expandability. I know you want it, I want it, and a lot of other professionals, enthusiasts, etc want it... but believe it or not that is actually a fairly small %age of the overall market (where market is defined as the people & businesses who might buy ever buy a desktop computer). Those people want a tool that just works and that they don't want to fiddle with, they just want to use it until it doesn't do what they want anymore (then they replace it again). For those people the expandability gives them nothing, but costs them space... the iMac2 is a great package for that very large potential group (it would be larger if the cost was lower, but as discussions elsewhere have touched on its not clear what the sales vs. cost graph looks like).
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post #37 of 133
[quote] Maybe my family is in the minority, but I was just wondering how many families have multiple computers, making a laptop purchase more attractive.
<hr></blockquote>

do you have teenage kids?? all homes with teenage kids need multiple computers, unless you never want to get on it....so, a computer for the kids (or one for each kid), one for you and the misses and an airport basestation to connect them all....love my basestation (white one), i have no need to update to extreme except that i would love to hook one printer to it and have it available to all the users in the house (five of us use computers in my house.....ouch)....g
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post #38 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by @homenow:
<strong>

. . . I imagiine that developers are getting a little concerned as well, will Apple choose the 970, move to X86, or choose a direction that is out of left field? . . .

</strong><hr></blockquote>


No argument, I just want to nit pick a couple points. Apple made their choice some time ago, and are in the process of implementing it. Apple just hasn't told us. There are big clues to which way Apple is now headed. One clue is that Apple has NOT told all developers what to expect. If Apple had chosen the x86, this would be something all developers need to know. Since the IBM 970 runs existing 32 bit code without penalty, all developers do not need to know far in advance. Regarding a few developers, I would bet that some are under NDA and are now working on 64 bit PPC applications. Just a few, however.
post #39 of 133
I know it's not a really complex device but have you seen the replacement cost for a PB or iBook keyboard? That's my only concern.

[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>
?

The only thing connecting my keyboard to my PowerBook is a thin ribbon cable. How expensive would it be to use a retractable wire and an easy to release mechanism to place your keyboard farther from you monitor?</strong><hr></blockquote>
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post #40 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by snoopy:
<strong>


No argument, I just want to nit pick a couple points. Apple made their choice some time ago, and are in the process of implementing it. Apple just hasn't told us. There are big clues to which way Apple is now headed. One clue is that Apple has NOT told all developers what to expect. If Apple had chosen the x86, this would be something all developers need to know. Since the IBM 970 runs existing 32 bit code without penalty, all developers do not need to know far in advance. Regarding a few developers, I would bet that some are under NDA and are now working on 64 bit PPC applications. Just a few, however.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sherlock snoopy, I presume! I think your logic is right on. To change to x86 would be a BIG DEAL for most applications, and there is no way an emulation environment similar to 68xxx/PPC would perform adequately. So the transition period would be hugh. And then, what about the transition to the Titanic? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Just my opinion
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