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Jobs: We've got a few things up our sleeve in the desktop area - Page 2

post #41 of 133
The new 17" Powerbook is getting CLOSE to a desktop replacement, but not quite. First of all, how hard would it have been to split the trackpad button into two buttons? I mean, they sell this rig as a "Pro" machine yet it only has one button. Pro users want two buttons.

I think to be taken seriously as a desktop replacement, the Powerbook needs to be a dual processor machine. At least one model with dual 867MHz CPU's. That would clinch it for me.

To recap: 2 Buttons, 2 CPU's...
post #42 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>

But my point is that unless there is a very fundamental change in the nature of the laptop then they cannot replace any desktop. The screen and keyboard are too close together. After using a laptop for 10 minutes I need to visit a chiropractor. The only way this can change is if the laptop's display is moved to wherre my eyes/neck want it, and the keyboard moves to where my hands want it.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, that's why the FP iMac is such a engineering and design marvel. Working on a computer for hours on end will make your really appreciate the adjustable screen.
post #43 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Crouton:
<strong>I think to be taken seriously as a desktop replacement, the Powerbook needs to be a dual processor machine. At least one model with dual 867MHz CPU's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yeah, you go ahead and engineer that, smart guy. you must have been an executive in a past life... who was evetually lynched by his team of engineers.
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post #44 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>
?

The only thing connecting my keyboard to my PowerBook is a thin ribbon cable. How expensive would it be to use a retractable wire and an easy to release mechanism to place your keyboard farther from you monitor?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was at MicroCenter today and they have a PC laptop that DOES have a removable keyboard system (forgot the brand)
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post #45 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>

yeah, you go ahead and engineer that, smart guy. you must have been an executive in a past life... who was evetually lynched by his team of engineers. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you may actually see such a beast eventually, don't scoff too forcefully.
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post #46 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>

I think you may actually see such a beast eventually, don't scoff too forcefully.</strong><hr></blockquote>

well, yeah... EVERYTHING happens eventually. it's just that Crouton was acting like it was a trivial affair and they could just slap it in there.

the two-button thing appears to be something that, if apple hasn't done it yet, they might never do it.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #47 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>

yeah, you go ahead and engineer that, smart guy. you must have been an executive in a past life... who was evetually lynched by his team of engineers. </strong><hr></blockquote>


I never said it would be in the same case. I just said that to be a TRUE pro desktop replacement, it would need to have the POWER of pro desktop. You need two cpu's to get there. As the case gets larger, that leaves more room for more components. Adding a 2nd CPU would probably not be as difficult as you may think. I'm not an engineer, so I don't know. Just tossing in my two cents.

Apple does a lot of things that we never expect. If they did, we wouldn't need rumor sites now would we...
post #48 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Crouton:
<strong>Adding a 2nd CPU would probably not be as difficult as you may think. I'm not an engineer, so I don't know. Just tossing in my two cents.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No? Twice the heat, twice the power consumption - both a factors with notebooks. Other mainboard layout likely as well. People who want power get a desktop system anyway, people who just like to do "simple" stuff can be perfectly fine off with a notebook. As for "Adding a 2nd CPU would probably not be as difficult as you may think. I'm not an engineer, so I don't know." - if you don't know, don't say it wouldn't be as difficult as people think - because it just might.
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post #49 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by xype:
<strong>

No? Twice the heat, twice the power consumption...</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's not true. A lot of the heat and power are created by the harddrive so adding a second CPU doesn't just double the numbers.
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post #50 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>do you have teenage kids??.....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, 2 to be exact. What I don't have is more money than expenses.
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post #51 of 133
me too...cool...how do you ever get on your computer at night?? perhaps yours are older and are driving around...mine are home most nights and are on the computer from about 7 to 10 pm...heck, i'm trying to blame the kids, but mostly i like toys (it would be like murbot blaming his computer purchases on his two daughters...though i am no where near as bad as him...ha)...so if i get a PB i will likely move the iMac LCD to one of the kids room....then we would have macs all over....gotta love airport...just throw a computer anywhere and watch it go...

as for money more than expenses...that is what credit cards are for!! that and faking your own death every 4 or 5 years.....g
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post #52 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
<strong>Apple has succeeded in convincing many people that OSX is superior to Winblows. Now all they need is to stop already with the all in ones and give people what THEY really want, not what Jobs wants-a reasonably priced upgradeable tower! The G4's are just an unbelieveable ripoff................................</strong><hr></blockquote>

I suppose "ripoff" is a matter of opinion. I have a dual G4 GHZ and don't feel "ripped off". Would I rather have dual PPC 970s? Sure. However, everything is relative.

I'm just curious. How would you describe this "consumer tower" of yours. Please indicate how it would be different from current towers and also indicate the suggested price. Let's see what type of setup you're able to come up with.

Steve
post #53 of 133
"Please indicate how it would be different from current towers and also indicate the suggested price."

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

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We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #54 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Crouton:
<strong>Adding a 2nd CPU would probably not be as difficult as you may think.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Please tell us why do you think that is.

[quote]<strong>I'm not an engineer, so I don't know. Just tossing in my two cents. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh, I guess you can't.
post #55 of 133
SINGLE 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
167MHz System Bus
256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive (DVD/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
56K internal modem

$1,299.00

This is for a DESKTOP.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Ompus ]</p>
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post #56 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Ompus:
<strong>SINGLE 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
167MHz System Bus
256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive (DVD/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
56K internal modem

$1,299.00</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please order me up 30 of those. Our art department needs them.
post #57 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by SteveS:
<strong>

I suppose "ripoff" is a matter of opinion. I have a dual G4 GHZ and don't feel "ripped off". Would I rather have dual PPC 970s? Sure. However, everything is relative.

I'm just curious. How would you describe this "consumer tower" of yours. Please indicate how it would be different from current towers and also indicate the suggested price. Let's see what type of setup you're able to come up with.

Steve</strong><hr></blockquote>

Same here, I have a dual gig and feel mighty satisfied. You notice most people that bitch about ripoffs, lack of speed, yada yada actually have like a 3 year old machine? I haven't seen many "my dual gig is a slow peice of crap" posts (except for a few trolls at macnn)
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post #58 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>me too...cool...how do you ever get on your computer at night?? .......

as for money more than expenses...that is what credit cards are for!! that and faking your own death every 4 or 5 years.....g</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm bigger than they are. Actually, they only get on the computer for homework primarily, sometimes AOL chatting, but we watch that closely.

Currently, we have a 7500 w/ a G4 400 upgrade card and an ATI Rage Pro. Seems to do most anything we want, but is very long in the tooth.

As for money, I've been putting away between $5 and $10 away for about 7 years. Had it up to $1860, but then this Christmas I had to unforturnately use $200. Oh well, with what's left and our upcoming income tax refund I WILL BE GETTING A NEW COMPUTER SOON. Then the 7500 will be put into one of the kids rooms, but I'll still need a desktop unit. A laptop is a fantasy dream for me, unless I can convince some one at work that I need one.
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post #59 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>
What I might be able to see is computing relying on servers and networking built into the house itself so only a monitor and keyboard is required for an access point around the house. That's a more high cost solution though.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Telomar ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ya, I'd love it if my main home machine was just another box in the stereo stack in the corner. If this then served out to my laptop and/or a "thinish client" like thing I'd be pretty happy. Seamless operation with all things AV too, of course!

I actually think this will happen. Net Boot and Rendezvous would seem to be heading in that direction. What if AV equipment, besides going Firewire also went IPoverFW with Rendezvous etc? I don't suppose that is likely but I can dream...
post #60 of 133
[quote]do you have teenage kids?? all homes with teenage kids need multiple computers, unless you never want to get on it....so, a computer for the kids (or one for each kid), one for you and the misses and an airport basestation to connect them all....<hr></blockquote>

:eek: I unfortunately don't know anyone who could afford that (in real life).
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post #61 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Mac The Fork:
<strong>

:eek: I unfortunately don't know anyone who could afford that (in real life).</strong><hr></blockquote>

in the US of A they have small pieces of plastic
they're called creditcards and you don't need to have real money to use them, only a regular income.
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post #62 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by gar:
<strong>

in the US of A they have small pieces of plastic
they're called creditcards and you don't need to have real money to use them, only a regular income.</strong><hr></blockquote>

and this, my friends, is the attitude that gets so many people in way over their financial heads these days. never buy anything on credit card that you can't pay off in two payments comfortably. you don't HAVE to pay it off in two payments, but if you don't have that much just in case, the interest rates will eat you alive for the rest of your life. credit cards are only slightly more evil than student loans, though.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #63 of 133
the reason jobs is an excellent sales man is because of things like that he says and how casually he says them. he with that sentence gained alot of trust and enthusiasm from you so that u are confident in apple now.


...he could sell a pack of opened ketchup to a women and white gloves
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post #64 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

Same here, I have a dual gig and feel mighty satisfied. You notice most people that bitch about ripoffs, lack of speed, yada yada actually have like a 3 year old machine? I haven't seen many "my dual gig is a slow peice of crap" posts (except for a few trolls at macnn)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly. Everyone knows that the current range of desktops is slower PERIOD than the latest wintel stuff, but cmon... they're not slow. Unless you're rendering 3D all day, which, lets face it, how many of the people here are actually doing? and if your that serious about it, why not a rack of Xserves. I'm a graphic designer working on an original Quicksilver 867, and for photoshop work and design, I could have no complaints. I've never thought it felt slow, even if I could run a few filters 2 seconds faster on a PC.

The biggest problem is that the apple range LOOKS slow and overpriced, whether it is or not. OK, thats hardly a revelation, but although the 970 is going to be vastly faster, I can't help thinking that if it's marketed in the same old way, the situation's not going to get any better, because we're still going to be at half the perceived speed of Intel. Apple needs to think carefully about that.
post #65 of 133
[quote] I'm bigger than they are. <hr></blockquote>
you must have boys....i have daughters, it matters little that i am bigger than they are, they have all the power....g

ps...good luck with your computer purchase...hopefully you'll get a nice tax refund....and there should be a new iMac/eMac and maybe even new towers by then.....do you know anybody in education? or use your kids....the education store at apple always has great deals on older models of the tower if you don't have to be cutting edge....

[quote] quote:
Originally posted by Mac The Fork:

I unfortunately don't know anyone who could afford that (in real life).

in the US of A they have small pieces of plastic
they're called creditcards and you don't need to have real money to use them, only a regular income <hr></blockquote>

hey, i pay off my credit cards every month...we just keep our computers a long time....had a 1999 iMac DV that went to the eldest daughters room with an airport card when we got the iMac lcd last year....this year i will probably get a laptop for my younger daughter and she will keep that in her room (she currently has a 5 year old PC laptop running windows 95 that i "inherited" from work)....hopefully that will keep us for awhile...at least till the girls go to college....g

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
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post #66 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Mac The Fork:
<strong>

:eek: I unfortunately don't know anyone who could afford that (in real life).

</strong><hr></blockquote>

We own Beige G3 desktops. My 14 year old son plays Warcraft III on a 300 MHz desktop, with original processor and graphics. He just turns off a few things like the music, and it works. The only upgrades are a larger hard drive, more RAM and a $12 USB card. It's a lower cost way of getting computers for everyone in the house. His Mac is faster and more upgraded than mine.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: snoopy ]</p>
post #67 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>That's not true. A lot of the heat and power are created by the harddrive so adding a second CPU doesn't just double the numbers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I meant the CPUs only, my bad.
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post #68 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Ompus:
<strong>SINGLE 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
167MHz System Bus
256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive (DVD/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
56K internal modem

$1,299.00

This is for a DESKTOP.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Someone please tell Steve Jobs.
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post #69 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Ompus:
<strong>
SINGLE 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
167MHz System Bus
256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive (DVD/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
56K internal modem

$1,299.00

This is for a DESKTOP.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

How about a 10/100 NIC instead of that 56k modem. Price difference would probably be negligable, and I could see more use out of a NIC (lan party, network, etc) than a modem. Or maybe a build to order option...

How about this:

SINGLE 1GHz PowerPC G4
167MHz System Bus
256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-RW Drive
NVIDIA GeForce4 MX
10/100 NIC
2 PCI slots
3 DIMM slots
1 AGP 4x slot (filled by GF4MX)
Airport ready (no card included)

$999.00

You could upgrade any part (Processor, HD, CD, modem for nic, graphics card, airport card, etc), this is just the base machine.

Will this happen, I doubt it.
post #70 of 133
hmmmm.. it goes back to the cube ... if it where priced 999 ans 1299... then people would be happy... hmmmm maybe it should be resurected... comments anyone... people are fitting dual gigs and changing the grfx card... the minus they are adding small fans... you chose...


m
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post #71 of 133
post #72 of 133
post #73 of 133
Wow, that's probably one of the biggest responses I've ever had here! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

It might not be an issue of being able to afford things, it's probably more that the people I know just wouldn't spend money to get computers wirelessly networked or even have enough recent computers around to make it possible (both of which are the case at home). Different priorities, I guess. Having wireless-networked Macs for the kids sounded extravagant to me.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Mac The Fork ]</p>
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post #74 of 133
Lower prices please, Steve...
post #75 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by xype:
No? Twice the heat, twice the power consumption - "Adding a 2nd CPU would probably not be as difficult as you may think. I'm not an engineer, so I don't know." - if you don't know, don't say it wouldn't be as difficult as people think - because it just might.<hr></blockquote>

Also twice the chip surface area to dissipate the heat. Energy (and heat reduction) mode by alternating power to CPUs. Not so tough to engineer with a large case like the 15" & 17" Powerbooks.

We will see dual CPU portables, it's just a matter of time. And the sooner the better.
OSX + Duals, Quads & Octos = World Domination
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post #76 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:
<strong>
We will see dual CPU portables, it's just a matter of time. And the sooner the better.</strong><hr></blockquote>

We won't see laptop Octos though
post #77 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:
<strong>
Also twice the chip surface area to dissipate the heat. Energy (and heat reduction) mode by alternating power to CPUs. Not so tough to engineer with a large case like the 15" & 17" Powerbooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That would be true if the processors were the only thermal masses in the case. Every electrical component in the case generates heat. The heat sink is important, but it is not the only vector of heat dissipation. The motherboard also plays a major role in conducting heat away from the processor. The heat dissipated by the motherboard does not scale linearly with the number of processors.
[quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:
<strong>
We will see dual CPU portables, it's just a matter of time. And the sooner the better.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How do you figure that?
post #78 of 133
Well, if they offered a single gig machine they could price that under the low-end dual 867 mhz machine and get the price under a grand with a decent graphics card. Or bundle a 15 LCD with said model for price of dual 867.

S'funny, even when I saw the 1.25 gig for the just above a grand price as dreamed above, it didn't look good value to what you see in PC World. Apple have a bit of work to do on making their Desktops meet the value of their own lap tops!

Luckily for Apple, it appears the 970 isn't that far away in the scheme of things.

Lemon Bon Bon

[ 01-12-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
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post #79 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>it's like they let a high school senior class run the national morning news...</strong><hr></blockquote>

And this would be a bad thing?
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post #80 of 133
[quote]Originally posted by Aphelion:
<strong>

Also twice the chip surface area to dissipate the heat. Energy (and heat reduction) mode by alternating power to CPUs. Not so tough to engineer with a large case like the 15" & 17" Powerbooks.

We will see dual CPU portables, it's just a matter of time. And the sooner the better.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Seems to me that a design capable of dissipating the heat of two G4s might also handle one 970. Which would you prefer?
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