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iTunes Music Store Has Competition - Page 2

post #41 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Yes it has. WIth about 100 per week...

uh... no.

what they list in the Just Added sections is no accurate showing of what they have really added.

Hell, they have added over 50 Pearl Jam Bootlegs over the last few weeks alone
post #42 of 163
iPod has 50% of the digital player market?!?! wow...I knew it was big, but that's pretty damn huge.

iTMS debuted with 100,000 songs right?
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post #43 of 163
iPod doesn't have 50% of the digital player market. It's more like 20% which is still amazing.
iTMS debuted with 200,000 songs.

The BuyMusic ads are running on tv. I saw one that had three different people listening to their MP3 players while parodying the Apple ads. I think they are funnier. (I never thought the Apple ads were that great). The screen tag is "BUYMUSIC.COM" - Get Loaded.
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Things Ain't What They Seem!
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post #44 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
iPod doesn't have 50% of the digital player market. It's more like 20% which is still amazing.
iTMS debuted with 200,000 songs.

The BuyMusic ads are running on tv. I saw one that had three different people listening to their MP3 players while parodying the Apple ads. I think they are funnier. (I never thought the Apple ads were that great). The screen tag is "BUYMUSIC.COM" - Get Loaded.

the nimrods at buymusic forgot one thing... if they're not careful, they'll send buyers TO apple, not away from them.

good lord, this company has sh!t for brains. the whole collective lot of them.
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You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #45 of 163
That has got to be the stupidest slogan I have ever heard. Well, except for Microsoft's "Do AMAZING Things."
post #46 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
the nimrods at buymusic forgot one thing... if they're not careful, they'll send buyers TO apple, not away from them.

good lord, this company has sh!t for brains. the whole collective lot of them.

Indeed, they should have asked Gateway how well it didn't work for them. They lack the subtlety of a good parody. They're funny to people who think SNL is funny.

[added] Watching the ads again, they really aren't doing themselves a favor. "Music downloads for the rest of us" and of course the Errol Morris style backdrops will make people think of Apple. I think they're trying to covey not only a "Me too" attitude, but also a sense of comfort and convenience, when it will make the grass on this side look greener to a lot of people.

A person at work already brought up BuyMusic.com at work today, but when I told them about the non-transferrable license, needless to say, they looked a little deflated. I've been hawking my iPod to anyone who glances at it, talking about the iTMS. I think this person thought he found something just as good (I guess the "me too" approach isn't off base), only to be terribly wrong. I should note this person has hundreds of CDs, so they're not necessarily your typical music shopper, though he is probably the perfect candidate for online purchasing/downloads. He's been converting all the songs he likes to MP3s with the hopes of abandoning many of his physical CDs, he buys from Amazon all the time because of the low prices and convenience, so he probably sees these services as a godsend. However, he apparently does like to actually own the music he pays for.
post #47 of 163
hehe... they're selling to a bigger market they're BOUND to make truckloads of money! NOT! ... ask Gateway. It might do alright... with alot of marketing.

It's funny how great the Applestore is doing and it only supports macs at the moment.
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post #48 of 163
BuyMusic.com, the Wal-Mart of on-line music stores!

The webpage is terrible. It formats funky on my windoze work machine running IE and even has the unrefined white-walled, somehow-disturbingly-off-but-bright colors of a Wal-Mart (kind of like a whimpy version of XP colors)...yuck...

...of course Wal-Mart makes alot of money because alot of people only care about price, not about quality or child labor manufacturing laws.

The ads have all of the subtlety of a high school attempt at parodying SNL, without the quaintness.

The Ars Tech article is great and I love the line:

"All downloaded Content is sublicensed to End Users and not sold,notwithstanding use of the terms 'sell,' 'purchase,' 'order,' or 'buy' on the Site or this Agreement."

We use the term buy, but you shouldn't assume we mean "buy." All the genuine honesty of a presidential candidate.

And as for Tommy Lee being their spokesman!?!?! I prefer Steve's friends.

And does Scott Blum realize that iPods run on Windoze machines now?

I also agree that the model of having the store in the music player is more elegant and may even be more technically reliable for DRM specs than just a website. People are pretty used to buying from websites now though. What if you had to download a special Amazon app just to buy from Amazon.com?

My main concern is that, as stated by someone earlier, Apple may not be able to get a much better deal for its version on PC's from the big labels unless or until BuyMusic fails.

Anyway, I'm sure Apple is counting all of the problems with this attempt and already designing a new set of commercials! At least I hope it and Amazon will help bring the prices down to my personal sweet spot of 50 cents/song.


PS...the Tommy Lee ad ain't funny...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
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post #49 of 163
BTW, if there some of your tracks have limited transfers and others don't how can you keep your mp3 player and computer synced? Some songs just drop off the lineup without you knowing? You have to make sure you never erase a song from your portable player?

It seems like you just couldn't do the automatic synching and on the fly playlist editing and smart playlisting and remote listening via Rendezvous..... This looks less and less intriguing the more I think about it.
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Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #50 of 163
different licensing = hte suck.
post #51 of 163
The bottom line is that unlike the subscription services and iTMS, this isn't consistent. If you pay $40/month to stream whatever you want, that's sort of like having your own jukebox. People can relate to that, and all songs are equal. On iTMS, you buy what you want, and you have it - the DRM restrictions are mostly transparent given the way people actually use digital music - and all songs are equal.

That license agreement spells doom. Can you imagine explaining to people why and how the Metallica song won't let them do what the TOOL song will? How intuitive is that?

Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
I think the big reason for the delay in the Windows iTunesMS is the implementation of DRM. Each PC has to be identifiable, even when individual components change. It's the same problem MS product activation has. It has to somehow be tied to the hardware otherwise it will be easily circumvented.

This isn't actually all that difficult under Apple's implementation, because they make you authorize computers, and they let you deauthorize them as well. So if the license is absolutely clear about what Apple considers a "computer," you'll know whether to deauthorize the machine before upgrading, and whether you'll need to authorize the "new" machine afterward - basically, just like a Mac user replacing their old machine.

That's about as simple as it's going to get.
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #52 of 163
Hm, okay so here comes the stupid question of the day. I'm not familiar with the SDMI DRM thing or whatever it is, so if you can burn a CD with whatever *getloaded* songs you bought, can you rip the CD back to another computer into MP3 tracks, or does the SDMI wrapper or whatever it is prevent that (I assume this is the case)?
What the problem is?
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What the problem is?
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post #53 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MCQ
Hm, okay so here comes the stupid question of the day. I'm not familiar with the SDMI DRM thing or whatever it is, so if you can burn a CD with whatever *getloaded* songs you bought, can you rip the CD back to another computer into MP3 tracks, or does the SDMI wrapper or whatever it is prevent that (I assume this is the case)?

Not a stupid question at all. It's kinda like what we were all struggling with when iTMS came out. For the iTMS, once it's made an audio cd, DRM is gone. I don't know about WiMP9. It'd be interesting to find out.
post #54 of 163
I mentioned the slogan to a friend of mine. He wasn't paying much attention, but when he heard "Get Loaded" he thought I was talking about a site that sells you illegal drugs.
post #55 of 163
"Tommy Lee is loaded. You should be, too."

He seemed to be. This is a joke.
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Computer: Cedric
Specs: eMac, 700MHz PowerPC G4, 384MB of RAM, 40GB HD, CD-RW drive, nVidia GeForce 2 MX, Mac OS X 10.1.5/Mac OS 9.2.2
Media: 1800 tunes, 78 photos, 3 movies, no DVD's.
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post #56 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
People are pretty used to buying from websites now though. What if you had to download a special Amazon app just to buy from Amazon.com?

But buying music from a website? Then you have to look for it on your hard drive and add it to your music player. You might be surprised to know how many of my friends were unable to locate music downloaded from Napster to add it to Winamp. They could only comprehend playing it in Napster! Trying to teach them to navigate to the music directory using Windows Explorer was a painful chore. iTunes isn't a special app you use to download music. It's your jukebox app, and the fact that it does your music acquisition for you (from CD ripping to online downloading) as well is a major, major plus.
post #57 of 163
Besides the nasty one-computer, inconsistent DRM attached to the WMA files from BuyMusic.com, what about sound quality? From what I recall of listening tests I've read about, 128K AAC is a superior sounding format compared to 128K WMA.

I'm not sure how much quality will count in the developing on-line music buying market, but I hope it counts for something.
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #58 of 163
By the way, it looks like the 300,000 songs they supposedly have are nearly completely fictitious. The site is full of track, that when you try to buy them, say "not available yet." Even with that, their complete catalog only lists 115,000.

If Apple had simply listed every song they had license to sell on the Apple store, but hadn't got around to ripping yet, they could have listed a lot more than the initial 100k. This place really looks like a shady dead.
post #59 of 163
Yeah, I noticed their complete lack of songs as well. This Blum guy is really pushing this service based on a whole lot of nonsense. There could hypothetically download from 300, 000 songs, one day, maybe. You could also purchase a "digital download" for only 79 cents, if you could find one for that amount. Then of course, there's the fact that you are not buying songs, you're buying "digital downloads" of songs that you're allowed to listen to.
It seems that they've re-tooled the Rhapsody model of streaming downloads, except you're allowed to have a local copy of the stream on your computer. But the rights allowed by buymusic.com are about as liberal as Rhpasody's streams. You really can't do much with music you've bought.
post #60 of 163
I just watched the commercials.

Now my head hurts.

This is real, right?

Uh... wow.
post #61 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by frawgz
But buying music from a website? Then you have to look for it on your hard drive and add it to your music player. You might be surprised to know how many of my friends were unable to locate music downloaded from Napster to add it to Winamp. They could only comprehend playing it in Napster! Trying to teach them to navigate to the music directory using Windows Explorer was a painful chore. iTunes isn't a special app you use to download music. It's your jukebox app, and the fact that it does your music acquisition for you (from CD ripping to online downloading) as well is a major, major plus.

You know that and I know that, I just am always amazed at the gullibility of the public for all things web-based. The more I see iTMS the more I appriciate its elegance compared to everyother lame attempt. This site isn't going to be the competition anyway...It'll be Real and M$ as usual with Amazon working with one of them to be a source.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #62 of 163
First of all I would like to start by saying that WMA sucks more than anyother program I have ever seen...well RealOne and it are pretty close.

Second, the restrictions are retarded. I would never buy a song that wouldn't follow me and die with the computer...because you do occasionally need to get a new one. I would also never buy a song that only let me transfer to a device 2 times. What if I dont want to have the song all the time? and I would never buy a song that I could burn a limited ammount of times. Just explain why I would do this when I could get the same thing (probably better quality) off of a sharing program and have no restrictions...aside that its illegal.

Third, Their preview system is even more retarded than their DMR. I feel like im listening to previews at cdnow or amazon. I hate that second window and crappy quality/interface

Fourth, Commercials...need I say more...yes...I think its so great that crappy companies like this feel threatened and want to make money off someone who controls only a tiny bit of the market. In that way Apple not microsoft controls the market. They innovate and MS (and companion companies) copy. For apple I would say that this is a great honor...to always be 10 leaps ahead of the competition.



The iTMS, Has simplicity, quality and a very decent ammount of quantity. Their downloads are easy, the previews are great sounding and quick! their interface is light and not clunky. basically all that I can say is that it is leagues above Buymusic.com...which also has a crappy name.

all in all i think it is a pretty feable attempt to copy apple...they didn't even do a good job. TechTv did a better job with their apple copying commercials and im sure they had atleast 1/100th the budget...
post #63 of 163
Apple promoted 200,000 songs at the very beginning of iTMS, not 100,000. Here's the original press release:

Quote:
Apple Launches the iTunes Music Store

CUPERTINO, CaliforniaApril 28, 2003Apple® today launched the iTunes® Music Store, a revolutionary online music store that lets customers quickly find, purchase and download the music they want for just 99 cents per song, without subscription fees. The iTunes Music Store offers groundbreaking personal use rights, including burning songs onto an unlimited number of CDs for personal use, listening to songs on an unlimited number of iPods, playing songs on up to three Macintosh® computers, and using songs in any application on the Mac®, including iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD.

The iTunes Music Store offers the revolutionary rights to burn an unlimited number of CDs for personal use and to put music on an unlimited number of iPods for on-the-go listening, said Steve Jobs, Apples CEO. Consumers dont want to be treated like criminals and artists don't want their valuable work stolen. The iTunes Music Store offers a groundbreaking solution for both.

The iTunes Music Store features over 200,000 songs from music companies including BMG, EMI, Sony Music Entertainment, Universal and Warner. Users can easily search the entire music store to instantly locate any song by title, artist or album, or browse the entire collection of songs by genre, artist and album. Users can listen to a free 30-second high-quality preview of any song in the store, then purchase and download their favorite songs or complete albums in pristine digital quality with just one click.

The iTunes Music Store also features exclusive tracks from over 20 artists, including Bob Dylan, U2, Eminem, Sheryl Crow and Sting, as well as special music videos from several of these artists which users can watch for free. In addition, the iTunes Music Store highlights new releases, staff favorites and up-and-coming artists, and delivers a compelling variety of music from many genres and time periods, ranging from Rock and Hip Hop to Jazz and Classical. The ability to browse the entire music store by genre, artist and album combined with free high-quality previews of every song lets users explore music in an entirely new way, to easily find the hits they love and discover gems theyve never heard before.

All music on the iTunes Music Store is encoded in the industry-standard AAC audio format at 128 kilobits per second which enables smaller files and faster download times while rivaling CD-quality sound superior to the quality of MP3 files at the same size. The AAC audio format, developed by Dolby, was also adopted to provide the audio encoding for the industry-standard MPEG-4 video format.

The iTunes Music Store is fully integrated into iTunes® 4, the fourth major release of Apples popular digital music jukebox software, allowing users to purchase, download, organize and listen to their music using just one application. iTunes 4 features major new enhancements including Rendezvous music-sharing between Macs, so users can legally stream their music to other Macs without the hassle of copying files from computer to computer.

Pricing & Availability
iTunes 4 with the iTunes Music Store is available as a free download immediately at www.apple.com/itunes. The iTunes Music Store requires a valid credit card with a U.S. billing address, a Mac equipped with iTunes 4 and Mac® OS X version 10.1.5 or later. Further information about Apples digital music products can be found at www.apple.com/ipod and www.apple.com/music.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is committed to bringing the best personal computing experience to students, educators, creative professionals and consumers around the world through its innovative hardware, software and Internet offerings.


Today, in a followup article, AP gets the pricing right for BuyMusic. They also seem less then enthusiastic about the site now that they have looked at it. The initial flash of excitment seems to be flushing down the toilet.
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Things Ain't What They Seem!
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post #64 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
Apple promoted 200,000 songs at the very beginning of iTMS, not 100,000. Here's the original press release:

Sorry, that'll teach me to make up numbers off the top of my head. (Well, it probably won't--it's so much easier than looking them up. )

Doesn't change the fact that they were braggin about having more songs than iTunes when they actually had far less.
post #65 of 163
The distortion field doesn't always work for people other then SJ!
Things Ain't What They Seem!
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Things Ain't What They Seem!
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post #66 of 163
I think I'll celebrate the opening of buy(rent)music.com by going off to the ITMS and purchasing myself an album.

cheers!

post #67 of 163
How 'bout that new Ben Folds EP release? Kind of cool how he's bypassing the record companies, though I guess the record companies mght resent it. But, even without their support, he's currently got the top-selling iTunes album.

Good stuff, too - I really like "Protection" and "Wandering".
post #68 of 163
thanks for the recommendation malokata.

Went ahead and got it.

Haven't listened to any Ben Folds in a while.

Good stuff.
post #69 of 163
Too bad that WMA was not covered here, but this is nevertheless interesting: Results of AAC at 128kbps public Listening Test

Apple appears to be working hard to provide a high-quality product, and I think these listening tests demonstrate that. BuyMusic.com, on the other hand, seems to be more interested in heavy-handed, inconsistent DRM than quality.
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Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #70 of 163
Just from reading that orginal iTunes Music Store press release and comparing it to RentMusak.com, it is amazing how much more big picture Apple views technology and content!!

Apple is using its business/technology model for QT in iTunes. It may seem obvious to us, but it is still revolutionary to the industry in that one application can create/produce; download; play; modify, and act as a server for content! From soup to nuts with one application! Obviously iTunes isn't used for creation...yet (Emagic?) or for "serving"...yet (you can do remote playback already, though). But I think we can see those functions becoming integrated in the future. That is what Apple is doing with Final Cut as well.

And THAT is key. In media that is what Real tried and gave up on (Real actually never tried for the production part) and that is the Grail that M$ has been trying to emulate.

The problem is that the average Windoze person doesn't have even the chance to grasp this big picture until M$ has reverse engineered and prototyped their own version and squeezed the big picture into XP. By then the masses think M$ invented the thing and couldn't care less about Apple's innovation that started the whole thing. They are used to the lack of elegance and imagination. Not to even mention the hardware integration.

With the iPod, Apple finally has a hardware product that has made it into the monied mainstream and that may drive its software adoption AND service providing function. The people that come to Apple through this may realize the advantage of one-app to product integration and may even see QT as similarly worthwhile, but then again they may just return to their Dell Media Centers for $700.

BTW, that is why their needs to be a video version of the iPod. There needs to be a way for PC folks to experience the advantages of QuickTime. Switcher commercials with Peter Jackson (LOTR), Spike Lee and George Lucas watching QT trailers of each other's movies with white backgrounds...

If iTunes and QTime can become the eBay and Amazon of media playback (and production), THEN in many respects I don't care if Macs get above 10% of the market, because Apple will be making enough money to stay afloat forever.

Sorry to go off topic....this is more of a rant on why Apple should make an mp4 player, but I don't feel like starting a new thread.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #71 of 163
Tommy is loaded with crack.
post #72 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
Sorry, that'll teach me to make up numbers off the top of my head. (Well, it probably won't--it's so much easier than looking them up. )

You can keep making up numbers if you make your sig, "what I lack in accuracy, I'll make up for in sheer volume."
post #73 of 163
Just keeps getting better and better.

From the Privacy Policy of BuyMusic.com:

"Except as otherwise limited in this Policy, we may disclose, sell, trade, or rent your Personally Identifiable Information to others without your consent."

"Music Sampling: We use a third party to provide digital music download samples for our customers. That service collects your IP address, browser type, Internet Service Provider (ISP), platform type and a date/time stamp. They also use cookies. "

Their ads are served by the infamous DoubleClick network.
post #74 of 163
man someone needs to make a public statement about all this crap, a lot of people who don't know any better are gonna get burned. Put it on one of those "shame on you" shows on the news
post #75 of 163
wow, they really are worse than i thought. i took 4 albums off of their front page, which held 8. these were the first 4 i clicked on.




post #76 of 163
From the Los Angeles Times:
Quote:
Blum, who made more than $125 million selling part of his stake in Buy.com, declined to say how much the service cost to launch or market.

"If it's a failure," he said, "it would be deathly for myself because I'm betting so big on it."

Now I feel kind of bad for him.
post #77 of 163
Don't feel bad for him, he must be an idiot, cuz who would bet their whole future on a piece of crap like this. Even if it was a great service its still an unproven way to sell music.
post #78 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by frawgz
But buying music from a website? Then you have to look for it on your hard drive and add it to your music player. You might be surprised to know how many of my friends were unable to locate music downloaded from Napster to add it to Winamp. They could only comprehend playing it in Napster! Trying to teach them to navigate to the music directory using Windows Explorer was a painful chore. iTunes isn't a special app you use to download music. It's your jukebox app, and the fact that it does your music acquisition for you (from CD ripping to online downloading) as well is a major, major plus.

I hear that.
post #79 of 163
Quote:
Originally posted by frawgz
Now I feel kind of bad for him.

Heh. He obviously leaned heavily on Microsoft for all the heavy lifting (which doesn't say much for his judgment), and he might find Wil Shipley's claim true, that dealing with MS is like picking your food from between the teeth of a T. Rex.

I almost feel sorry for him, but given that his pitch veers dangerously close to fraud (how many songs are actually available? since when do "buy," "sell" and "own" mean anything other than "buy," "sell" and "own"? and what are the real prices you're going to pay?) I won't shed any tears if he gets buried.

Anyone who holds the public in that much contempt deserves to crash and burn.
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #80 of 163
you can no longer get into this site on a mac.
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