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Panther 7B** Builds Discussion (images on page 2 & 5) - Page 3

post #81 of 1177
If it's technically possible (should be easy), then IMO should CD's burned with multiple sessions apparantly appear as a normal CD on the desktop/in the finder, labeled as something generic like 'multisession CD' (or more intuitive, of course), and when opened - it'd display all the sessions as folders or CD's. Or maybe this functionality could be triggered by a configurable threshold, like if there is more than three sessions - represent the CD as one volume (with the sessions inside) on the desktop, and if there's three or less - display every session as separate discs...

Okay, messy post, but I hope you understand what I intended to say
Comments?
post #82 of 1177
Does the a classic window (Photoshop 5/6) still "white out" the dock when it goes under it?

BZ
post #83 of 1177
greetings,

in looking at the System Preferences window for Users, the rectangular buttons are very ugly. Furthemore, clicking a button apparently makes it dimmed, but that brings those sets of options to the foreground.

UI consistency has gone down the drain... that's a shame.

na
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently." -Nietzsche
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"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently." -Nietzsche
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post #84 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by nagha
greetings,

in looking at the System Preferences window for Users, the rectangular buttons are very ugly. Furthemore, clicking a button apparently makes it dimmed, but that brings those sets of options to the foreground.

UI consistency has gone down the drain... that's a shame.

na

Let me guess. You're using the Graphite appearance?
post #85 of 1177
They're talking about how "No Limits/Some Limits/Simple Finder" are dark gray when pressed instead of standard highlight blue like the tab above it. That whole panel looks unfinished to me. I wouldn't make too much of it yet.
post #86 of 1177
Thread Starter 
i don't know I think people make an overly huge deal about the GUI being inconsistant. It all functions the same, it looks very sexy, and the new darker window lets you know what's up front. It works so well you don't even notice the GUI elements anymore. To me that's what it's all about. Just works seemless.


I love that the new brushed metal and the simple finder mode are two completely different looks. I always know no matter what, if i'm in simple finder or regular. You can't miss it with the change. Use it for a while and you'll see how well it works for your eyes.
post #87 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Seems odd. I assume it only works on non-startup volumes, but doesn't it need to format the volume when you do it?

If a volume didn't use up all the blocks its entitled to have couldn't the resize function just add as much as it needs? Provided that there are room to spare on the disk. And then note the new size in the partition map.

Example (largest volume can use 40 blocks):

Disk1:
[ vol-1 17 blocks | vol-2 21 blocks | free 16 blocks ]
Resized Disk1:
[ vol-1 17 blocks | vol-2 30 blocks |free 7]

How do partition magic and such utilities do, and why havn't it ever worked on Macs? I heard Gentoo had some resize-utility for HFS-volumes...
post #88 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Henriok
Resize volumes in Panther? Very nice, very very nice.. i'm stunned no one noticed:

Disk Utility - main window

Please test this function if you have the opportunity. There might be a section of this feature in the Help-documentation.

I believe that's to resize disk images - not volumes.
post #89 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Flounder
It's there, just extremely unintuitive and non mac-like.

If you burn ten different times, you get 10 CD images when you put it into your comp!

At least that's what happens to me. Maybe I haven't completely figured it out either.

Yes. That's what multisession is. Same on the PC as well. You are probably thinking packet writing which does not exist on the Mac yet - that I know of.

Multisession means basically x number of CD volumes on one physical CD. THink of it as partitions of a CD.
post #90 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Zapchud
If it's technically possible (should be easy), then IMO should CD's burned with multiple sessions apparantly appear as a normal CD on the desktop/in the finder, labeled as something generic like 'multisession CD' (or more intuitive, of course), and when opened - it'd display all the sessions as folders or CD's. Or maybe this functionality could be triggered by a configurable threshold, like if there is more than three sessions - represent the CD as one volume (with the sessions inside) on the desktop, and if there's three or less - display every session as separate discs...

Okay, messy post, but I hope you understand what I intended to say
Comments?

No, that's not a multisession CD. That's something completely different that would probably be best done via packet writing CD tech like "DirectCD" on Windows.
post #91 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
Mail.app (is said to have exchange support too, can you confirm this?)
iCal (any sign of exchange support in that too... I bet not but)

I don't have access to any Exchange servers (perhaps someone here could make me a test account somewhere and send me the info?) BUT I can say this. In the menu for making new accounts in Mail, the options are as follows:

.Mac
POP
IMAP
Exchange


Quote:
Originally posted by imho
1. The System Preferences Appearance Pane has a check box to "Minimize when double-clicking window title bar". What happens when you double-click a window title bar with this preference unchecked?

2. I read somewhere else that there is a way to access up to four (4) different Places Panes/Sidebars in the Finder. Is this true?

3. When you switch to the "Classic Finder" with the toolbar widget, does the Finder maintain a strict one-window-to-folder relationship like the OS 9 Finder?

1. Nothing. Same as before.

2. I don't know what you're talking about. There's only one sidebar for the Finder.

3. Yes. New windows spawn from that window and those new windows are in the Classic style. Double clicking a folder that already has a window open brings that old window to the front.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kate
Could you tell about what is happening when you click on the Network icon in the Finder window. Does a list of available servers, networked machines etc. show up?

Ahh! The lovely Kate returns. I was wondering when you'd be back to AI. I was actualy looking for your eyeware page recently and was disappointed to find it missing.

Anyhow, to your question. Yes, it seems that a list of servers should appear now when you click the Network icon. It's hard to describe; so, I'll take a snapshot of this "folder" later this evening.
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Is FontBook the same version as previously seen? If not, does it auto-activate fonts?

I think it's a newer version. This one is 1.0 v14, but I don't recall the last version's number. The reason I think it's newer is that I don't recall the previous build having any options for Preferences. What exactly do you mean by auto-activating fonts?
Quote:
Originally posted by alex_kac
I believe that's to resize disk images - not volumes.

Correct. This functionality is for disk images, not volumes!! It says so in the tooltip and in the help documentation.
post #92 of 1177
Quote:
i don't know I think people make an overly huge deal about the GUI being inconsistant.

There are still a number of people out there who don't use computers on a regular basis, who have never used them before, or are used to Windows. They tend to be afraid of exploring the interface, so anything inconsistent, unexpected or complicated makes it more difficult for these people to learn the system.

That said, I can't see anyone having a problem with different highlight colours. The Cocoa font panel, on the other hand, seems like it would cause a lot of grief. The menus and buttons lack text labels, the sliders are tiny, and there's a rotary control (hello, QuickTime 4) for the angle of something. The look of the interface is very soft and friendly though.
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post #93 of 1177
OMG, how could I forget??!!

Classic is now **FINALLY** double buffered!!

No more whiteouts and eraser-stall-redraw syndrome!!

Well, actually, it was possible for you to enable double buffering in 10.1 with a hack provided by Ambrosia Software's Andrew Welch, but Apple promptly killed the functionality in the next 10.1.x update.
post #94 of 1177
New in panther 7B :

-Stationery check box back in Get Info (the file is duplicated, not opened when double clicked)

-IP over Firewire was in 7A, in 7B there is a new 6 to 4. is it an IPv6 thingy?

-Help has been redesigned and is now usable. No more drawer, instead a Library menu. It is really fast. Forward/Backward buttons a la Safari, and a home button, in the new white plastic look

-Open dialogs : Apple-D, Apple-H... shortcuts work. Dragging a file into the window works too (broken in 7A)

-Mail : Exchange support in the Account preference, could not connect with my office Exchange server from home. Little exclamation mark in a triangle appears to the right of the account in the drawer when it cannot connect. Message only appears if one click on the triangle. New button appears in the mailboxes drawer, similar to the finder's wheel button, to modify, create mailboxes

-Address book: Exchange synchronisation. could not make it work. but when activated, Exchange appears in iSync.

-Preview has got a new mode toolbar widget. You can choose between a "move", "select picture" and "select text" mode. When preview is called by clicking the Preview button in the Print dialog box, Preview displays a print button and a "soft proof" check box (that turn your document in black and white if your printer is b&w, etc...). Preview has a full screen mode. it is still possible to navigate between pages with arrow keys.

-Calculator : Completely redone, bigger, Paper tape in a separate window. A calculation like 10+2x3 returns 16 (in both mode), before it would return 36. scientific calculator now really usable. And best of all, you can modify amounts on the paper tape and have the totals recalculated!!! You can change the precision and the display format: decimal, hexa, ascii, unicode...

-Preferences, Sound: DV (firewire) appears in Sound output preference, but the sound is not routed through my formac studio... DV does not appear as sound input

-Preferences, Appearance: Use smooth scrolling option. Works well in Safari for example.

-Preference, Exposé: You can assign expose to left or right Shift, Command, Option or Control key in addition to Fxx keys

-Image Capture: Preferences redesigned from 7A, Sharing moved from a separate menu to the preferences. Scan and OCR service has disappeared

-Services: in 7A you had "Open URL" and "Open URL in Safari". The latest has disappeared. A new "Search in google" service is available, and starts a search in Safari. great.

-iCal can display the time zone in the upper right corner of the window. Nice.

Everything looks more consistent in look..
It is very fast, I confirm.
But still unstable. It cannot handle my Formac Studio and my iSight at the same time. Jaguar can.
FinderLabel colors are broken in 7B.
I really think it is going to be a very very good OS, an attention to detail never reached before.

P.
post #95 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
I think it's a newer version. This one is 1.0 v14, but I don't recall the last version's number. The reason I think it's newer is that I don't recall the previous build having any options for Preferences. What exactly do you mean by auto-activating fonts?

Er, I should use the terminology Apple uses in FontBook for activation: "enabled," as opposed to disabled. I know Font book allows you to disable and enable fonts for use in the font panel. This is important for those who own thousands of fonts because otherwise it would take forever to wade through them, plus in OS 9 and maybe still in OS X, having thousands of fonts loaded could slow the computer to a crawl if not crash it. (I think OS X loads and unloads fonts on the fly, unlike OS 9 which loaded them all into RAM at startup. Regardless)

Anyway, auto-activation or auto-enabling of fonts happens when you open up a file that contains a certain disabled font. Most font management software automagically detects the disabled font in the document and activates the font for use by the user and the document. Otherwise, the font gets substituted with another IIRC. As I understood it, FontBook didn't have this auto-enabling feature in the previous build.

A simple way to test whether FontBook will automatically enable a font is to create a new document in TextEdit, type some text in a certain font, and save and close the file. Then go to FontBook and disable that specific font. Try re-opening the document and pulling up the font panel to see what happens.

PS: Thanks again!
post #96 of 1177
Quote:
-Calculator : Completely redone, bigger, Paper tape in a separate window.

-Help has been redesigned and is now usable. No more drawer, instead a Library menu.

Sounds a bit like they're moving away from drawer elements. With the sidebar thing happening all over, and people's general discontent with drawers as-is, this thought occurred to me while reading these comments.
post #97 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Sounds a bit like they're moving away from this element. With the sidebar thing happening all over, and people's general discontent with drawers as-is, this thought occurred to me while reading these comments.

I agree, iCal has got a drawer instead of the info pane. that is the only application that has a new drawer. Strange.
post #98 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by inkhead
I love that the new brushed metal and the simple finder mode are two completely different looks.

First of all its not 'Simple Finder mode' (Simple Finder is a completely
different thing, in Simple Finder you still have metal windows, this
terminology could confuse people) but rather Mac OS 9 or Multi Window
Finder.

My opinion...

its too STOOPID really. I use Finder Windows with and without toolbar
criss cross and with this metal AND aqua appearance in the Finder it
seems like one is using 2 applications instead of one...
(wich should look inconspicuos and not in yr face metal imo)
I think it makes it look a right mess

Cmon Apple make up your mind... to brushed ot not to brushed.
post #99 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Font Book - Preview

Good work with the screenshots, Brad! However, I get a 404 error when I try to view the link listed above. Do others have this problem?
post #100 of 1177
post #101 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by LudwigVan
However, I get a 404 error when I try to view the link listed above.

Fixed. It had an extra trailing ".pdf" on the name from when I converted them to png.
post #102 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by panicX
in Simple Finder you still have metal windows, this
terminology could confuse people

Bzzt. Wrong! In Simple Finder mode, it IS an Aqua window, not metal. Furthermore, you only have *one* window, not windows.
post #103 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by panicX
My opinion...

its too STOOPID really. I use Finder Windows with and without toolbar
criss cross and with this metal AND aqua appearance in the Finder it
seems like one is using 2 applications instead of one...

Cmon Apple make up your mind... to brushed ot not to brushed.

While I agree that the Finder is rather schizophrenic like this, it is what everyone else has been clamoring for for quite a while now. As a matter of fact, it's pretty much what John Siracusa was asking for, except his idea was to break it up into 2 apps instead of 2 modes. Personally, I think either of these approaches (2 apps or 2 modes) have their disadvantages.

-----

Q: In the Classic Finder mode, does it use column view and list view too, or just icon view?
post #104 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Q: In the Classic Finder mode, does it use column view and list view too, or just icon view?

Just like in Classic Mac OS, you choose the mode from the View menu. You can use icon, list, or columns.
post #105 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Just like in Classic Mac OS, you choose the mode from the View menu. You can use icon, list, or columns.

So how do you like it so far as compared to 10.2.X and the developer version of Panther?

And I hate to ask this but is it really faster than 10.2.X?
post #106 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by panicX
better Finder look/layout imo

http://homepage.mac.com/littlestar/no_icons.jpg

I want that!

And that's what Apple should do, let people decide which look they want (aqua/metal) and also let them decide if they want the sidebar and/or the top bar or not. Some people don't want a "simple" OS with only two sets of options: an either too simplistic view, or a slow and ugly view. I want to enable what I like and disable what I don't like. That's what I call "simple".
post #107 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Fixed. It had an extra trailing ".pdf" on the name from when I converted them to png.

Thanks for jumping on this so quickly, Brad.
post #108 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by panicX
better Finder look/layout imo

http://homepage.mac.com/littlestar/no_icons.jpg

That's definitely the cleanest looking Finder I've seen. Apple should take notes.
post #109 of 1177
Quote:
As a matter of fact, it's pretty much what John Siracusa was asking for, except his idea was to break it up into 2 apps instead of 2 modes.

You're wrong on both counts.
post #110 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by John
You're wrong on both counts.

I believe what John wants (speak of the devil!) is a return of spatial navigation in the Finder -- as the central, even primary, means of file navigation in OS X. All browse-in-place activity would take place in a new kind of window (within in the Finder), a Finder Browser.

I don't suspect that's going to happen, but do hope that spatial navigation will become a full and equal citizen alongside browse-in-place.

It does seem that Panther -- if the Finder team gets the details right -- will do a fair amount in achieving that... though not ideal, I'm sure, for the true-blue spatialites.
post #111 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
That's definitely the cleanest looking Finder I've seen. Apple should take notes.

That's identical to Panther's finder except that it's Aqua instead of brushed metal and the separated back/forward buttons.



The sidebar items can be removed and the slider moved over to make that exact same setup.
post #112 of 1177
i'm surprised no one has asked what's new in Safari 1.1!!! i am really curious, i love this browser and i hope we get some more options...is it any different from 1.0??
post #113 of 1177
Thread Starter 
Well they sure didn't fix the copy/paste bug that was posted about on david hyatt's website. It looks like this build was too old to get the web outlook, copy paste bug fix.

We'll see them in a version of safari that's out already, but just not out to us.

Nothing new, it just feels more solid and stable.
post #114 of 1177
i'm not familiar with that bug, could you paste a link to a thread on it please? i just use keyboard shortcuts for copying and pasting URLs in Safari, but this is probably related to some other form of copying and pasting....
post #115 of 1177
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
While I agree that the Finder is rather schizophrenic like this, it is what everyone else has been clamoring for for quite a while now. As a matter of fact, it's pretty much what John Siracusa was asking for, except his idea was to break it up into 2 apps instead of 2 modes. Personally, I think either of these approaches (2 apps or 2 modes) have their disadvantages.

Two ways of doing something is one way too many.

I like the fuctionality of the new metal Finder, but the appearance of the "new" classic style aqua Finder. Hey Steve, why must I choose between these? Give me the best of both worlds!
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Attention Internet Users!

"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

It's shameful how grammar on the Internet is losing its accuracy.
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post #116 of 1177
In response to the auto activation of fonts--this does not happen. I typed some text into TextEdit using the Papyrus font. Then I quit TextEdit and disabled Papyrus in Font Book. When I reopened my TextEdit document it defaulted to a generic font. As mentioned already the version of Font Book in 7B21 is v14. The version in the WWDC DP is v9. (I have different machines running both versions of Panther)

The only change I have noticed in Safari is the addition of a "Writing Direction" submenu in the context menu of textareas. The only item under this submenu is "Right to Left". Even when using Hebrew as the keyboard layout, only left to right text is allowed (perhaps this functionality is still being implemented).

I forget if this has been mentioned or not but there does not appear to be any Exchange support from within iCal. At least the preferences do not indicate any.

Also of note, the "Ports Manager" program that appeared in the Utilities folder of the WWDC DP but never worked has been removed from 7B21.

There seems to be a lot more integration with speech in this release. For example Calculator will now speak the keys you type which is great so that you can double check yourself audibly. Chess also allows you to speak moves (but this may always have been there). Combined with the new (unimpressive) voices it seems there is a conscious effort over at Apple to create a multi-sensual computing experience.

Edit: Also, regarding the Accounts preference pane. This is clearly still being developed and I am positive that the square buttons will not make it into the final release. At The Aqua Feedback session at WWDC the aqua team made many allusions to interface elements that are merely placeholders as functionality is added. They said there is much functionality that is under development but is left out of the betas because it is too "beta". I think Apple has plans for more robust user privilege management in Panther and the current Security tab is just there until the new version is stable enough to be released in beta form.

-Chris
post #117 of 1177
Brad, has Image Capture been updated? If so, could you provide screenshots??

Wow....

-------------
RosettaStoned
post #118 of 1177
Image Capture now has a Devices menu which lists all connected and shared devices. The old image Capture had separate Sharing and Devices items under the File menu. Sharing is now controlled from a Sharing tab in the new preferences window.

I would post pictures but I don't want to post NDA'd images under my name. Perhaps Brad will do the liberty.

-Chris
post #119 of 1177
Since I am in a blabbery mood I will comment a little on the Finder. I think the two modes complement each other well, though the method of switching between them is counter-intuitive--and now there is no way to hide the toolbar of the metal Finder window

Interesting, you can still use Column view in spatial finder windows and it seems to set the root column to the Computer and not the spatial folder that is open. You can't scroll the columns back, however, because of a redraw bug.

-Chris
post #120 of 1177
I am a pirate and I should know better than coming to AppleInsider seeking technical support for my pirating ways. Please laugh at me and mock me for my evil ways!
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