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post #201 of 215
Just a thought. If Motorola does manage to manufacture a 1.6+ GHz 7457, what are the odds that Apple uses it?

If Apple is really clearing the decks for the 970, it would be marketing disaster for them to put out a machine with a "lower speed" than what already exists (benchmarks notwithstanding... Clockspeed = Speed for probably 75% of personal computer users)

It's the same reason that Apple did not want to use the fast G3's when there was that awkward position of having G3's that had a higher clockspeed than their G4's. Bad marketing to have the iMac appear faster than the PM.

I wouldn't count on *any* PM updates for a **long** time, unless IBM is getting much higher speed yields than we know about.
Tom West - Resident Realist
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post #202 of 215
Look at it this way.

17" iMac = Power Mac 1GHz + 17" Display - Expansion.

The price works out the same (depending on how you value expansion). So they have very similar components, including the CPU (1GHz G4).

I imagine this entirely sensible component selection will continue.

However, Apple challenges the MHz myth. So they will probably use the real-world performance as a basis for what CPUs to use for what machines, until the iMac goes 970.

Barto
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post #203 of 215
An important point by the way. The PowerPC 970 WILL be faster than the G4.

I don't know whether you are a troll, or just slow (in the head, like).

Barto
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post #204 of 215
[quote]However, Apple challenges the MHz myth. So they will probably use the real-world performance as a basis for what CPUs to use for what machines, until the iMac goes 970.<hr></blockquote>

I don't think so. They only challenge it when it applies from PPC against Pentia.

[quote]An important point by the way. The PowerPC 970 WILL be faster than the G4.<hr></blockquote>

*Sigh* Of course the 970 is going to be faster. I think I made it abundantly clear I was talking about *perception*.

Apple has already had one instance of not using a faster chip because it would make the slower line *appear* (not be, just *appear*) faster than the PM line. I see no reason to believe that they'd risk shooting themselves by changing that strategy.

In fact, I look forward to Intel trying to explain lower clockspeed = better with the Centrino.

Being in technical support, I can tell you that more people can tell you their clockspeed than the type of their processor (well, okay everybody knows its a Pentium, but they can't tell you if it's a Celeron, P3, P4, PowerPC Pentium (sigh) or AMD Pentium. :-)) Clockspeed is the only metric that's universal and widely advertised. (Albeit the Athlon performance number is usually accepted as the clockspeed by the majority.)

Anyway, unless Apple wants to do a lot of explaining to its customer base (most of whom would really prefer not to know), they'll keep the clockspeed linearly increasing upward regardless of processor.
Tom West - Resident Realist
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post #205 of 215
They might like to, but remember: They've done this before, going from the 350MHz 604ev to the 233MHz 750 (G3).

It's true that within a range of shipping models they will generally ranks models by MHz. But the PowerMac went from 350MHz to 233MHz once, and the PowerBook went from 400/500 (G3) to 400/500 (G4) once, with the iBook SE outclocking the low-end PowerBook at 466MHz for some months.

[ 02-13-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
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post #206 of 215
Just a thought. Apple doesn't want to consider their customers utter idiots. Either Apple believes their customers understand what they hear (so that Steve can explain why PPC970 @ 1.2GHz is faster than G4 @ 1.43GHz) or Apple assumes we are all morons (so Steve cannot explain the benefits of PPC970 and instead claim that it burns n+1 Pentiums). We retain the right to decide which way we are treated, it just doesn't matter.
I still hope Steve does not call us morons and though he keeps lying, he knows why.
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Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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post #207 of 215
Actually, it's the 90% of Apple owners who have never seen, nor ever will see, Steve Jobs speak that Apple has to worry about. Most people's information about computers comes from a variety of 1/2 accurate sources: their neighbour next door, the high school student who's taken a computer literacy course, the salesman who knows only marginally more than they do, etc.

In other words, most people know (and want to know) as much about computers as I know (or want to know) about cars. I don't consider them idiots any more than my not wanting to waste time learning about the internals of the plumbing in my house makes me an idiot. I'm certain that my lack of ability to fix a washer makes me an idiot in the eyes of a plumber, but frankly, I'd rather spend my precious time on something else (like my kids).

Well, I suspect that most Mac (or any other computer owners) would rather spend their time on something else rather than try to keep up on a field where their information is going to be useless in a year anyway.

On the other hand, the counter examples that Amorph pointed out make it pretty clear that Apple won't necessarily feel completely bound to keep GHz linearly increasing. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!
Tom West - Resident Realist
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post #208 of 215
[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>They might like to, but remember: They've done this before, going from the 350MHz 604ev to the 233MHz 750 (G3).

It's true that within a range of shipping models they will generally ranks models by MHz. But the PowerMac went from 350MHz to 233MHz once...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup...well it was more like 350 --&gt; 266, but there was a huge price difference. The 266 MHz G3 DT was around $2300 while the 350 MHz 9600 was almost $4000...
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post #209 of 215
Why are people obsessing about this? Apple marketing just has the hype the words "sixty four bits" and talk about how it is more important than "GHz" (even though its not). Then they can start flaunting "GFlops", "MIPS", "GB/sec", "SPECmarks", or even "instructions in-flight". Heck "eight-way superscalar" compared to the G4's "4-way superscalar", making it twice as fast at the same GHz. If Apple's marketing department can't use this then they ought to be fired.

The people buying towers will see the value of the new processor and the those that don't can wait in line behind them... believe me the lineup will be more than long enough.

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: Programmer ]</p>
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post #210 of 215
[quote]Originally posted by Tom West:
<strong>Just a thought. If Motorola does manage to manufacture a 1.6+ GHz 7457, what are the odds that Apple uses it?

If Apple is really clearing the decks for the 970, it would be marketing disaster for them to put out a machine with a "lower speed" than what already exists (benchmarks notwithstanding... Clockspeed = Speed for probably 75% of personal computer users)

It's the same reason that Apple did not want to use the fast G3's when there was that awkward position of having G3's that had a higher clockspeed than their G4's. Bad marketing to have the iMac appear faster than the PM.

I wouldn't count on *any* PM updates for a **long** time, unless IBM is getting much higher speed yields than we know about.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What Apple should do is market their products like AMD- with equivalent speeds.
post #211 of 215
[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>

What Apple should do is market their products like AMD- with equivalent speeds.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No no no, we don't want them using "AMD equivalent speeds". We clearly want the numbers to be double or treble that

Edit: Gosh I want my spell chker back full time.

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: Nevyn ]</p>
post #212 of 215
That is a possibility. The 970s speed rating would be equivelent to a G4 at x MHz. Like AMD processors, which are all equivelent to the Thunderbird at x MHz*.

What is more interesting is if Apple and AMD manage to do the impossible and develop a method of numerically measuring the actual performance of a CPU.

Barto

*Even though they arn't really.
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post #213 of 215
I think Programmer's right. Apple won't go through any AMD-style contortions. They'll just hand off a set of featured to the crack smokers who write the copy on their web site, and before anyone here can blink there will be nonstop claims of "unparalleled performance in all applications, courtesy of faster-than-light performance from IBM, the same company that makes the world's fastest supercomputers!*"

* well, not right now. But sometimes!

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
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post #214 of 215
Apple's Marketing department will go crazy over the 970. The only good thing is that they will not have to make up anything to make the 970 sound good. Thats the difference.
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post #215 of 215
And then they can say something along the lines of "Powered by technology that whipped Kasparov's little ass in 10 moves." That would be good PR. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
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