7447/7457 - Page 3

[quote]Originally posted by Macmedia:
<strong>Way back when Don Carlos (another board) said:

12/10/02
1.4 GHz Mac coming early next year
Motorola is reading a new PowerPC proc.
Also a new generation of processors coming next year, breaking 2 GHz.
-----------
again on 12/10:
Let's just say I got some info from their vendor.

1.4 is coming in January and next gen (G5) might be ready for Q3 (more likely in Q4).
They always try to meet the MacWorld dates (Jan, Aug) to introduce new products.
--------------
1/28/03:
See, I told you so.

Now, the 2 GHz will come later this year (IBM) and end of 2003 or early 2004 (MOT).
-----------------
1/28/03
I don't know if Apple has decided to use IBM proc for their high-end systems.
Seem like IBM is ahead of MOT 3-6 months in the G5 generation, but MOT will catch up quickly. They will have their 2Ghz+ procs in production in about 9-12 months.
----------------

Ok, so he's not exactly clear but he did say 1.4 towers in Janurary which was right on.

Interesting.
Chas</strong><hr></blockquote>

His followup to my questions last night:
&gt;&gt;are you saying that the IBM will go in the desktops and the MOTs in laptops/consumers&lt;&lt;
Yes.

&gt;&gt;Also, is there going to be a big performance jump going to G5 regardless of the MHz rating?&lt;&lt;
More cache, faster bus with new topology, 32 & 64 bit cores, new pipeline ...
It might be a quantum leap for Apple computers (2x-3x in performance initially!).

Chas

How is IBM going to get to 2,ghz this year? The 970 caps at 1.8ghz and the 970+ which caps at 2.4ghz won't even be thought of til next year.

I will be floored if we get a 2ghz machine this year, and when i pick myself up, I'll be reaching for my credit card. I'm expecting the 1.8ghz 970 in a phat new Ives design (who btw is getting 'stale' according to UK design community) and as any designer knows, that's modivation.

Can't wait till this fall either way.

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>How is IBM going to get to 2,ghz this year? The 970 caps at 1.8ghz and the 970+ which caps at 2.4ghz won't even be thought of til next year.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The 970 is scheduled to start with a top speed of 1.8GHz. There's nothing saying that it won't get faster from there.

Then there's the rapid die shrink to .09&mu;.

If you stretch the "year" to include MWSF '04 the odds are pretty darn good IMO.

[quote]<strong>I'm expecting the 1.8ghz 970 in a phat new Ives design (who btw is getting 'stale' according to UK design community) and as any designer knows, that's modivation.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, white is so five minutes ago.

It'll be interesting to see what they do. If they stick with a minitower, it'll be damn hard to beat El Capitan at its current level of refinement. But then FW3200 opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, doesn't it?

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>How is IBM going to get to 2,ghz this year? The 970 caps at 1.8ghz and the 970+ which caps at 2.4ghz won't even be thought of til next year.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The original G4 'capped' at 500 MHz, the ppc 970 is released with an initial range of 1.2 - 1.8 GHz. Those two statements are different.

'Capped' implies that the designers _know_ that the chip will have issues beyond the cap. Like 'this spot will get hot', or 'this part interferes with that part beyond frequency X'.

'Initial introduction range' doesn't mean that at all. The 1.2 chip and the 1.8 chip are presumably exactly the same process to make - the ones that do very well end up as 1.8's. But what happens when people figure out _why_ not all of the 1.2's pass the 1.8's certification? -&gt; Slight changes to the processes _NOT_ the design -&gt; higher speeds.

Now, it is possible that the 970 is 'capped' at 1.8, but I wouldn't put money on it.

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

Yeah, white is so five minutes ago.

It'll be interesting to see what they do. If they stick with a minitower, it'll be damn hard to beat El Capitan at its current level of refinement. But then FW3200 opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, doesn't it? </strong><hr></blockquote>


Well, everything I've seen says it starts at 1.4ghz and top end is 1.8ghz. That makes sense seeing that the top G4 is currently 1.4ghz. Yea, I'd rather have an aluminum case or something, it's not necessarily the el captitan as much as it is it's outside. Just redo the exterior is typical fashion and I'm sure it will rock.

[quote]Originally posted by Nevyn:
<strong>

The original G4 'capped' at 500 MHz, the ppc 970 is released with an initial range of 1.2 - 1.8 GHz. Those two statements are different.

'Capped' implies that the designers _know_ that the chip will have issues beyond the cap. Like 'this spot will get hot', or 'this part interferes with that part beyond frequency X'.

'Initial introduction range' doesn't mean that at all. The 1.2 chip and the 1.8 chip are presumably exactly the same process to make - the ones that do very well end up as 1.8's. But what happens when people figure out _why_ not all of the 1.2's pass the 1.8's certification? -&gt; Slight changes to the processes _NOT_ the design -&gt; higher speeds.

Now, it is possible that the 970 is 'capped' at 1.8, but I wouldn't put money on it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My bad, I used 'capped' too loosely when i meerly meant released ending speed or something like that

There's nothing comming from IBM to suggest that 970 will just stop at 1.8 GHz. Look att Motorola.. they don't seem to acknowledge 7455 over 1 GHz, but Apple just announced 1.42 GHz parts. They've said +1 GHz though.

[ 01-29-2003: Message edited by: Henriok ]</p>

Just because IBM shows how a 1.2GHz 970 scores and how much wattage it uses, doesn't mean they ever intend to release one at that speed. Hell if they had a pre-production 970 working at 1.2GHz way back when then that is pretty impressive, especially considering AMD had pre-production Hammers running at 800-900MHz when they are expected to be over 2GHz when they are released officially.

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>Well, everything I've seen says it starts at 1.4ghz and top end is 1.8ghz.</strong><hr></blockquote>

At the outset, yes. I don't think IBM has ever published the absolute maximum clock speed that the design is capable of.

Maybe it won't get too much farther before the die shrink, just because IBM is planning to move it to .09&mu; tout suite, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hit 2GHz, and the die-shrunk 970 picked up from there.

The 970, unlike the G4, is designed to scale nicely. It'll be hard to get used to, I know.

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>

Hard to get used to, but almost as depressing.

The Pentium 4 is expected to break the 10GHz barrier in 2005.

Barto

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

At the outset, yes. I don't think IBM has ever published the absolute maximum clock speed that the design is capable of.

Maybe it won't get too much farther before the die shrink, just because IBM is planning to move it to .09&mu; tout suite, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hit 2GHz, and the die-shrunk 970 picked up from there.

The 970, unlike the G4, is designed to scale nicely. It'll be hard to get used to, I know.

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

By the .09 do you mean the 970+? Because that's suppose to scale up to 2.4ghz, starting at 1.8ghz or 2.ghz IIRC (according to NMR )

[quote]Originally posted by Barto:
<strong>Hard to get used to, but almost as depressing.

The Pentium 4 is expected to break the 10GHz barrier in 2005.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

So they say. It cracks me up that Intel actually padded the P4's pipeline with no-ops to give the electricity time to propagate across the chip.

But that just illustrates how much they're missing the point, and I think that'll be clear enough by the time 2005 rolls around. They're still basically assuming that PCs will be laid out the way they've always been, with one big CPU at the heart of the machine, but with the motherboard tech coming down the pipe in the next year it's just not going to be like that. I think Apple's long expertise as a systems integrator will come to the fore when high-speed interconnects arrive on the desktop.

Meanwhile, nobody's buying the 3GHz Pentiums because they open Word so much faster than their 2GHz Pentium does. Faced with a 10GHz Pentium... well, it could enable a virus to wipe out your entire machine before you could blink, while it was trying to decide whether or not you really deserved to listen to that music file you just double-clicked on, but somehow I don't see this overcoming the public's rather jaded view of the Pentium's clockspeed. Except for a few pro areas, Windows applications have stalled, and further speed increases are essentially pointless. Even games have reached a point where the video card is more of a bottleneck than the CPU.

The Mac does not have this problem. There are, and will be, plenty of applications to keep an iMac earning its keep, courtesy of Apple.

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>

to stray back to nominal topic of this thread. The 7447/7457. What is the difference betwen the two? Is the new one just a die shrink or does it add features like DDR support?

TIA

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

&lt;cut&gt;

Meanwhile, nobody's buying the 3GHz Pentiums because they open Word so much faster than their 2GHz Pentium does. Faced with a 10GHz Pentium... well, it could enable a virus to wipe out your entire machine before you could blink, while it was trying to decide whether or not you really deserved to listen to that music file you just double-clicked on, but somehow I don't see this overcoming the public's rather jaded view of the Pentium's clockspeed. Except for a few pro areas, Windows applications have stalled, and further speed increases are essentially pointless.


</strong><hr></blockquote>


Please, please, can you make T-Shirts with that on it? Billboards, bumper stickers, maybe a Matsu Flag with that on it, spam all the mac boards with that, some RFT emails to send out to everyone who is a doom sayer and always posts what Intels plans are next year. WTF cares what they are doing as long as you are doing your work. My dual gig suits me fine, that's why I don't bitch about how slow apple computers are. They are fast enough for my market segment and X is more stable then a 5 leg table.

[ 01-30-2003: Message edited by: KidRed ]</p>

I agree, my Dual gig DA is fast enough for my needs but faster would be better. I planned on a new purchase when speed increased by 50%, which it has with the new DP 1.4 gig. Too bad they don't have any for 2-months, now I'll wait and see the reviews. But then it will be 3-4 months and maybe then I'll just wait til August for the next revision.

Point being, Apple's non-abillity to deliver on their equipment loses them a near-term sale. Again, I assume it is MOTO's fault for not delivering chips. I can only hope that IBM doesn't lapse into this non-development scenario once (and if) they get onboard Stevie's magic carpet ride..

[quote]Originally posted by DrBoar:
<strong>to stray back to nominal topic of this thread. The 7447/7457. What is the difference betwen the two? Is the new one just a die shrink or does it add features like DDR support?

TIA</strong><hr></blockquote>

The 7447/7457 appears to be a die-shrunk 7445/7455, perhaps with double the L2 cache, and able to support a slightly faster (but still SDR and shared) MaxBus.

If that's the case, it's an incremental improvement. Given the way the 7455 has scaled, it should get the G4 up to 2GHz.

If it follows the same pattern as before, the 7447 won't have pins for the L3 cache whereas the 7457 will. The difference between the 7447/7457 and the 7445/7455 is that the 57 has a larger L2 cache (512 vs. 256K), a faster bus (200 Mhz vs. 167), and room for 4MB of L3 cache. The 7457-RM adds DDR support.

[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>The 7457-RM adds DDR support.</strong><hr></blockquote>And 7457-RM is a as far as anyone here knows a proposed design witch will (or won't) make an appearance in 2004.

The state of the rumors in early January was that the 7457 would debut in the powermacs. When that didn't happen, rumors began to build that bastardized 7457s would appear in the iMac. Of course that didn't happen either.

What's going on?

We know that Motorola is set to begin pushing the 7457 no later than <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=02VS0llCc5pzMPsvFLn1b23G5nChPn " target="_blank">March 23, 2002</a>.

My bet, for which I have NO EVIDENCE is this: In the latter part of March, we'll get new powermacs with a modestly bumped MPX bus and otherwise drop-in 7457s.

An argument against this guess is that Apple JUST bumped their powermacs...why would we expect them to bump them again after 3 months? My response: Apple WANTS a nice 6 month progression, but their hands are tied by what Motorola can deliver. If the 7457 is available come the end of March, Apple will ship it, 6 month product cycles be damned.

Obviously the 7457 wasn't ready. That did surprise me because I was told a new G4+ in Jan. I'm wondering if that has changed (duh) maybe the reasoning behind "year of the laptop". Also could be that Apple will/has spend it's time on getting a new chip (970) into a new case by the fall. Notice apple didn't do anything but bump, and the tower was bumped just a little. I think that could mean the towers ar done with G4s and the iMacs were'nt bumped much because they will get to 1.25+ (and possibly a design tweak) by summer then the towers get the 970 in the fall.

It either is very good news or bad news that we didn't get the G4+ (7457?)

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

At the outset, yes. I don't think IBM has ever published the absolute maximum clock speed that the design is capable of.

]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, let' s make a comparison with the Athlon 64.
The athlon 64 is designed to start at 1,8 ghz (but samples are still at 1,4 ghz). The chip is as huge as a ppc 970 and has a shorter pipeline 12 instead of 14.

There is no reason to limit the speed of the PPC 970 at 1,8 ghz.
I think they just meant that the first ppc produced will be clocked between 1,4 to 1,8 ghz.

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>Obviously the 7457 wasn't ready. That did surprise me because I was told a new G4+ in Jan. I'm wondering if that has changed (duh) maybe the reasoning behind "year of the laptop".</strong><hr></blockquote>

After the lackluster updates to the iMac and eMac, I have to wonder if the chip was delayed enough that Apple was forced to wait until summer to roll it out, which means that there's not much point considering it for the pro line. Mot might be releasing it in (late?) March, but if Apple's going to use it in their consumer lines they'll need quantities that might require a a month or three of stockpiling.

[quote]<strong>I think that could mean the towers ar done with G4s and the iMacs were'nt bumped much because they will get to 1.25+ (and possibly a design tweak) by summer then the towers get the 970 in the fall. </strong><hr></blockquote>

This is my conclusion as well. I'm leaning toward the interpretation that it's bad news in the short term (since Apple would probably have liked to introduce a better upgrade), but good news in the medium term.

By stating that the new iMacs are part of their "Spring Line," it clearly points to the new PPC processor debuting sometime this summer or early fall for PowerMacs. Apple couldn't have made the tea leaf-reading any easier. I think the iMac will inheret the latest the G4 has to offer, once the 970s are shipping in PowerMacs. Since scores show the 970 is a significantly faster processor than the G4 at the same clock speed, it wouldn't hurt to bump the iMacs to the latest and greatest G4. We're likely to see 1.4 GHz and 1.2 Ghz G4 iMacs this fall. The PowerMacs will have 1.8 Ghz and 2 GHz 970s.

Screw it -- put me down for a 2GHz (dual?) Power Mac by the end of 2003.

[quote]By stating that the new iMacs are part of their "Spring Line," it clearly points to the new PPC processor debuting sometime this summer or early fall for PowerMacs. Apple couldn't have made the tea leaf-reading any easier. I think the iMac will inheret the latest the G4 has to offer, once the 970s are shipping in PowerMacs. Since scores show the 970 is a significantly faster processor than the G4 at the same clock speed, it wouldn't hurt to bump the iMacs to the latest and greatest G4. We're likely to see 1.4 GHz and 1.2 Ghz G4 iMacs this fall. The PowerMacs will have 1.8 Ghz and 2 GHz 970s. <hr></blockquote>

I hope so.

Lemon Bon Bon

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong> Notice apple didn't do anything but bump, and the tower was bumped just a little. I think that could mean the towers ar done with G4s and the iMacs were'nt bumped much because they will get to 1.25+ (and possibly a design tweak) by summer then the towers get the 970 in the fall.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

or because the towers are bumped "just a little" we can expect another run of slightly faster G4s in the tower this fall (not faster than 1.6Ghz: jobs loves to have options) so the imac can also get slightly faster. and the year of the desktop will be ... 2004. same input, other conclusion.

[quote]Originally posted by gar:
<strong>

or because the towers are bumped "just a little" we can expect another run of slightly faster G4s in the tower this fall (not faster than 1.6Ghz: jobs loves to have options) so the imac can also get slightly faster. and the year of the desktop will be ... 2004. same input, other conclusion.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea but slightly faster this year isn't options, it's flat sales. Tower sales are slowing and the iMac is starting to as well. So, they need speed right now. The G4+ was the last for the towers then the 970. We didn't get the 7457 so it's either been pushed back to the fall or skipped over to the imac by the fall or summer. So it's good or bad depending on your angle.

I agree. The 970 is coming soon. Just look at apples hardware lineup. I feel they have skipped the 7457 cause the 970 will be coming so soon that the 7457 wouldn't be worth the extra expense.

The IBM MDF announcement of the 970 said it would arrive at target frequencies of 1.4 - 1.8 GHz. When a manufacturer builds chips not all of them will run at the top clock rate so they typically sell a couple of speeds. Probably 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 GHz based on what was in the initial announcement. This is also IBM's conservative estimate that they are confident they can deliver at introduction... if things go well, and there are hints floating about that they are, we may see even faster chips at introduction -- 2 GHz certainly isn't out of reach.

From day 1, way back in March 2000 the intention for the 0.13 micron G4 implementation (i.e. the 7457) has been to go into consumer and notebook computers. There is no reason to expect them to ever show up in the PowerMac towers. The most likely scenario at the moment is that the current towers will be replaced in Aug-Sept by 970-based machines, and the iMac and notebooks will be updated with 7457 processors at &gt;1 GHz. Probably all with DDR memory. This gives Motorola plenty of time to build enough of those processor for Apple and to get the speeds up. A 6 month run is Apple's normal production cycle so given the introductions of the last week, that puts the new lines appearing in roughly Aug-Sept. Hmmm... could all this be coincidence? I don't think so...

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:
<strong>I agree. The 970 is coming soon. Just look at apples hardware lineup. I feel they have skipped the 7457 cause the 970 will be coming so soon that the 7457 wouldn't be worth the extra expense.</strong><hr></blockquote>

BTW: the 7457 is a "drop-in" replacement for the 7455 so there isn't any "extra expense" for Apple. As I said in the previous note, the 7457 has always been intended for the consumer / notebook machines... not the towers.

[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>From day 1, way back in March 2000 the intention for the 0.13 micron G4 implementation (i.e. the 7457) has been to go into consumer and notebook computers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Where did MOT announce this chip, and is there any info about it online? I am not talking about the "leaked PDF" but at some forum or another? A link would be nice. I still am having a hard time believing that the 7457 exists anywhere except on paper.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if we never see it, as MOT has probably scraped it. The current G4 has enough room to give the iMac an upgrade or two more before switching to the 970 (if Apple wants, they could go 970 sooner). The iBook could go G3 forever (didn't IBM announce a G3 with SIMD, and other stuff?). The PowerBook/PowerMac will get 970 from the next go.

So what does this mean? There is no need for the 7457? MOT knows this, and probably decide to scrap it after the paper came out. Plus, with MOT at work on the 85XX series, they have no need to do the 74XX series any longer. Future customers in the embedded arena would rather get a 85XX over any 7457 would be my guess.

[ 02-04-2003: Message edited by: kupan787 ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by kupan787:
<strong>

Where did MOT announce this chip, and is there any info about it online? I am not talking about the "leaked PDF" but at some forum or another? A link would be nice. I still am having a hard time believing that the 7457 exists anywhere except on paper.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if we never see it, as MOT has probably scraped it. The current G4 has enough room to give the iMac an upgrade or two more before switching to the 970 (if Apple wants, they could go 970 sooner). The iBook could go G3 forever (didn't IBM announce a G3 with SIMD, and other stuff?). The PowerBook/PowerMac will get 970 from the next go.

So what does this mean? There is no need for the 7457? MOT knows this, and probably decide to scrap it after the paper came out. Plus, with MOT at work on the 85XX series, they have no need to do the 74XX series any longer. Future customers in the embedded arena would rather get a 85XX over any 7457 would be my guess.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Moto has plenty of customers who use the G4 that would like a lower power, higher speed version. The 85xx has its uses, but it doesn't hold a candle to the G4's AltiVec unit and Moto's presentations on their respective vector units make that clear.

Taking the G4 to 0.13 micron SOI has been on the roadmap for a long time and its the next logical step, and a heck of a lot cheaper than developing a new core. As suggested above, its possible that issues with the 0.13 process will just cause them to leapfrog to the 0.09 process, but so much the better. That might explain the delay in getting this chip out.

[quote]Originally posted by kupan787:
<strong>

Where did MOT announce this chip, and is there any info about it online? I am not talking about the "leaked PDF" but at some forum or another? A link would be nice. I still am having a hard time believing that the 7457 exists anywhere except on paper.

Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if we never see it, as MOT has probably scraped it. The current G4 has enough room to give the iMac an upgrade or two more before switching to the 970 (if Apple wants, they could go 970 sooner). The iBook could go G3 forever (didn't IBM announce a G3 with SIMD, and other stuff?). The PowerBook/PowerMac will get 970 from the next go.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=02VS0llCc5pzMPsvFLn1b23G5nChPn " target="_blank">March 2003 SNDF Dallas</a>

[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>The IBM MDF announcement of the 970 said it would arrive at target frequencies of 1.4 - 1.8 GHz. When a manufacturer builds chips not all of them will run at the top clock rate so they typically sell a couple of speeds. Probably 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 GHz based on what was in the initial announcement. This is also IBM's conservative estimate that they are confident they can deliver at introduction... if things go well, and there are hints floating about that they are, we may see even faster chips at introduction -- 2 GHz certainly isn't out of reach.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I saw where the IBM presentation said speeds up to 1.8 GHz but where does it say that will be the initial speed? If you look at most roadmaps, the top speed listed is usually at least 2 generations away. Maybe I am just confusing the information given on a 'roadmap' with the type of announcement made by IBM last October but it does seem a possibility. That would be disappointing if the first machines to use it topped off at less than 1.8.

[quote]Originally posted by Kurt:
<strong>

I saw where the IBM presentation said speeds up to 1.8 GHz but where does it say that will be the initial speed? If you look at most roadmaps, the top speed listed is usually at least 2 generations away. Maybe I am just confusing the information given on a 'roadmap' with the type of announcement made by IBM last October but it does seem a possibility. That would be disappointing if the first machines to use it topped off at less than 1.8.</strong><hr></blockquote>

IBM hasn't released any roadmaps on the 9xx series of chips. Pretty much everything they said was referring to at release.

I've been reading "The Little Engine That Could" to my grandson. OOPS, age showing.

I think last year about this time Moto called Apple and said, "I cannot, I cannot, I cannot".
The Moto engine then trundled off to the roundhouse to rust.

From now on, it may be IBM or bust!

I have a feeling that Apple will keep Motorola around for something. It would be nice to have a little more certainty as to whether the PPC970 will be out this year. However, it really seems that motorola has gone to hell and that IBM may be the only solution. The 970 fits the equation so well that I don't think many of us have any doubts as to its future coming. However, the time frame as to when it will show up is still a bit cloudy. Programmer and Redkid both say Aug-Sept, and I tend to agree with that perspective. I would love to see the 970 as soon as June, but I feel that is pushing it. Although, if Apple was really working hard on it and things went great on IBM's side, this could be a possibility. We can only hope, that whenever the 970 does come out, it will be sufficient to bring Apple back to the top performance wise.

[quote]Originally posted by Kurt:
<strong>I saw where the IBM presentation said speeds up to 1.8 GHz but where does it say that will be the initial speed? If you look at most roadmaps, the top speed listed is usually at least 2 generations away. Maybe I am just confusing the information given on a 'roadmap' with the type of announcement made by IBM last October but it does seem a possibility. That would be disappointing if the first machines to use it topped off at less than 1.8.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The roadmap that is part of the MDF presentation seems pretty clear. There is a single icon for the 970 marked 1.4-1.8 GHz, just like there are single icons for the G3 series chips (and attached clock speed ranges). Also, its hard to predict eventual top speeds, so they usually don't try... they just put "1.4+ Ghz" or something like that.

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:
<strong>I agree. The 970 is coming soon. Just look at apples hardware lineup. I feel they have skipped the 7457 cause the 970 will be coming so soon that the 7457 wouldn't be worth the extra expense.</strong><hr></blockquote>

your right about this option, i still got the Q3 timeframe for a ppc970 introduction in my mind. (and the experiences with the moto G4 in late 1999 and there after) maybe i got a little pessimistic about timeframes in the last couple of years.

[quote]Originally posted by Algol:
<strong>I agree. The 970 is coming soon. Just look at apples hardware lineup. I feel they have skipped the 7457 cause the 970 will be coming so soon that the 7457 wouldn't be worth the extra expense.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have a feeling they skipped the 7457 because it isn't actually released and they had no choice. The iMacs and laptops will receive them pretty soon after they are ready though.