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PPC 970 date? - Page 6

post #201 of 345
I would think a MP G4+ 7457 (or the RM) on a 130nm process would be a pretty nice laptop machine.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #202 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
Apple can put the 970's out with 10.2.6 with a fix for the OS (allowing 32-bit OS to run on PPC970) and then be able to charge big for 10.3 (full 64-bit) in September.

They wouldn't do that would they?

Actually, I don't think they would. They'll probably also announce another Mac OS Up-To-Date program at WWDC, where people who buy 10.2 or a new computer with 10.2 on it after that date will get 10.3 for a "nominal charge", i.e. $20 s/h. That's how they keep sales up between when they announce all these killer features and when they ship.
post #203 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
I would think a MP G4+ 7457 (or the RM) on a 130nm process would be a pretty nice laptop machine.

Everyone would agree with this. The question is when these would be available. If the IBM 970 has been out for a while or even has migrated to a 0.09µm process by the time Motorola's MPC7457 or MPC7457-RM, which would you choose? And if Apple goes with IBM's 970 and Motorola's MPC 7457-RM wouldn't they have to support 2 significantly different motherboards.

Then there's IBM's roadmap with:
-Multicore Superscalar
-Integrated SIMD engine
-Rapid I/O
-n-way Crossbar Coreconnect

options, you know
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #204 of 345
The G4+RM GTI what have you might be a nice CPU. But it is still the end of the line and made by a company that is on its way to leave desktop CPUs alltogether. So buying one is an investment in a dead end.

The G4 does not have a future in computers and the G5 is dead so Apple should get the 970 in as many computers as they can. Buying a 970 is an investment in the 980
post #205 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag
Everyone would agree with this. The question is when these would be available. If the IBM 970 has been out for a while or even has migrated to a 0.09µm process by the time Motorola's MPC7457 or MPC7457-RM, which would you choose? And if Apple goes with IBM's 970 and Motorola's MPC 7457-RM wouldn't they have to support 2 significantly different motherboards.

Then there's IBM's roadmap with:
-Multicore Superscalar
-Integrated SIMD engine
-Rapid I/O
-n-way Crossbar Coreconnect

options, you know

I'm just not sure about power usage with the high FSB of the 970, but time wil tell. A 1.5 GHz DP G4 130nm with a 7-10 hour battery life would be a nice PB. But Apple may know something they aren't telling with regards to MB/chip power use given that they came out with the power hungry 17" LCD model.
Of course if the 970 has similar power requirements I'll take it. A MP PB would definitely make it the year of the Laptop.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #206 of 345
I'm certainly glad to hear than the 970 is running ahead of schedule. And while I doubt it will appear in both the PowerMac and PowerBook at the same, I eagerly wait for both.

Has anyone else noticed that Moki has been unusually quiet lately? Any word from him? I value many people's opinion and knowledge on this forum, but his I trust the most as he seems to have friends on the inside.

Someone drop him a line and ask him to stop in here. Please.

TBoxman
post #207 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
The chipset in a 970 based machine will run at a higher clock rate than a G4 based machine's chipset runs. That will probably increase power/heat dissapation but no hard info is available on what that really works out to be in practice.

Apple can offset that somewhat by designing their 970 chipset to be fabbed on a better process than the current one(s).
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Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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post #208 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by TBoxman
I'm certainly glad to hear than the 970 is running ahead of schedule. And while I doubt it will appear in both the PowerMac and PowerBook at the same, I eagerly wait for both.

Has anyone else noticed that Moki has been unusually quiet lately? Any word from him? I value many people's opinion and knowledge on this forum, but his I trust the most as he seems to have friends on the inside.

Someone drop him a line and ask him to stop in here. Please.

TBoxman

Apple scooped him up a few weeks ago for hi loose lips. SteveO has him locked up in LoopedDeadEnd North. They are interogating him and promise to have his source's head within the week.

I enoyed his hints too, but it seems to be all but a distant memory.
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post #209 of 345
a bit of topic, but does these rumors about apple buying universal
mean that apple has finally gotten their processor roadmap in order? "Apple presents to you its new music service featuring Apple/Universal Records. In conjuction with their new G5(powered by IBM's 970 microprocessor) allows for the easiest and most consumer friendly internet music buying experience.
Use it with your latest 30 gig Ipod now".
The world belongs to who wants it , now who deserves it.
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post #210 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by ghstmars
a bit of topic, but does these rumors about apple buying universal
mean that apple has finally gotten their processor roadmap in order?

Um, no? If the music service requires the horsepower of a 970, Apple is just about to shoot themselves in the foot. With an RPG.
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Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

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Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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post #211 of 345
What i meant was that if these rumors turn out to be true,
apple must have their processor roadmap in order,otherwise why spend about 6 billion on a record label,when your major source of revenue (COMPUTERS) is lagging in terms of performance. 970 is ready that we know and apple is gonna use it, if rumors are an indication.
The world belongs to who wants it , now who deserves it.
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post #212 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by ghstmars
What i meant was that if these rumors turn out to be true,
apple must have their processor roadmap in order,otherwise why spend about 6 billion on a record label,when your major source of revenue (COMPUTERS) is lagging in terms of performance. 970 is ready that we know and apple is gonna use it, if rumors are an indication.

You know what? This is actually a good point. If there is ANY truth to Apple even considering blowing their entire cash reserve on anything (especially a music label), then Steve must be suprememly confident about hardware sales over the next 12-24 months.
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"it's" contraction of "it is"
"its" possessive form of the pronoun "it".

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post #213 of 345
Well, that and UMG would more than double their gross revenue and add $500 million per quarter in profit...

Apple has been building up to something for quite a while now. More to the point, why on earth would they buy Shake and its ilk if they didn't anticipate something like the 970?

Heh. I saw one of the WWDC sessions from last year, and the guy, who was one of the researchers in the numerics group, was explaining a graph where AltiVec performance just kicked ass until it suddenly got throttled. He explained that the bus was responsible, and said that there was no way around it for now. I get the sense that Apple has been waiting for the 970 rather impatiently.
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Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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post #214 of 345
true but shake was nowhere the vecinity of 6 Billion! dollars!
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post #215 of 345
[QUOTE]Originally posted by costique
Quote:
Originally posted by Derrick 61:
<strong>I can tell you EXACTLY when the pMac 970 will be released...

One month after I buy a G4 tower!</strong><hr></blockquote>

So do it now!

Okay...I did it...couldn't wait any longer.

They shipped my G4 today, so

970 to be announced on May 11, but that's a Sunday, so I'll call it May 13 so it can be on a Tuesday (I saw in here somewhere that Apple likes to announce on Tuesdays)

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AKA the Microsoft R&D Department
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Apple Computer, Inc.

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post #216 of 345
This is what will be available from the other side at the end of the month. Specs from Intel "Canterwood/SpringDale" mobo
(it looks a lot like nForce 2):
FSB 800 MHz
Dual-DDR 266/333/400 (up to 6 DIMMS !)
AGP 4X/8X
Audio : 5.1 with SPDIF out
2 IDE ATA 66/100
SATA 150 (+ RAID)
Dual-LAN : Fast Ethernet 10/100Mb
8 USB 2.0 ports
1 Firewire 400 port
5 PCI

Hoping we will have this and better with the 970 mobo.
I see something like this:
FSB up to 900 MHz with HyperTransport
Dual DDR 266/333/400
AGP 4x/8x
Digital Audio 5.1
2 IDE ATA 66/100
SATA 150
Gigabit Ethernet
4 USB 2.0
2 FireWire 400 / 1 FireWire 800
4 PCI
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post #217 of 345
Let's rename this forum. It should be called the "Intel-Apple Hardware Comparison Forum" or "Look How Far Behind We Are Forum" or maybe "Look How Cheap I Can Buy a Wintel Box Forum".

It seem as if almost every topic gets there eventually.

Is it just me or does it bother others too?
post #218 of 345
Thread Starter 
[Edit:] Wrong thread!
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post #219 of 345
edit - need more time to put this thought into the correct wording...I'll be back...
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post #220 of 345
edit: PC just crashed, need to reboot, defrag, and reinstall. be right back in four hours.
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post #221 of 345
Damn, got hit by three virii in a row. gotta buy a new PC.
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post #222 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Um, no? If the music service requires the horsepower of a 970, Apple is just about to shoot themselves in the foot. With an RPG.

Yeah, I think the music service has to do more with finding new ways for revenue and expanding the digital lifestyle options.
post #223 of 345
From a strategic standpoint, I think it would behoove Apple to release the 970 systems before showing off Panther. While we all agree that Apple will show the world how much better the 970 is over the G4, and more importantly, how well it performs against the current state of x86, Apple may want to prop-up the 970 by equally comparing 32-bit software on other 32-bit processors vs. running 32-bit software natively on a 64-bit processor. In the short term, this would allow Apple to save face by showing they've once again got serious horsepower in their hardware, thus producing a boost in sales; allay software developers concerns; and building up the importance 64-bit processing will have in the future of computing.

Later down the road, when it comes time to debut Panther, it will be easier for Apple to demonstrate its features, especially the brawn and nirvana of a 64-bit OS on a 64-bit processor (the cat will already be out of the bag and the surprise will then focus on just how fast Panther will be). That would be a modern computing home run for Apple in my opinion. Nevermind the fact that 970 users who have already purchased their systems will already be able to take advantage of Panther (more money for Apple), and it will generate more attention to their hardware to provide yet more sales.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just howling at the moon, but it was just a thought that I had and I thought I'd run it by all of you. What do you think?
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post #224 of 345
ahh... but rumors are hinting at a 10.3 upgrade in speed similar to a 10.2

if apple shows off 970 with a 10.2.x release then the good news is that the speed delta will be even faster when panther is released...
post #225 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
While we all agree that Apple will show the world how much better the 970 is over the G4, and more importantly, how well it performs against the current state of x86, Apple may want to prop-up the 970 by equally comparing 32-bit software on other 32-bit processors vs. running 32-bit software on a 64-bit processor.

The thing is when running 32 bit software the 970 you are not "running it on a 32 bit processor" just because the OS doesn't handle 64 bits. Assuming you are comparing a 64 bit version of 10.2.5 with a 32 bit version of 10.2.5 (recompiled enough just to actually run on the 970) there will be no difference in 32 bit app speed. The processor only runs 32 bit software one way regardless of the 'bitness' of the OS - natively.

MM
post #226 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by MartianMatt
The processor only runs 32 bit software one way regardless of the 'bitness' of the OS - natively.

Thanks for clarifying that confusing line. It was poorly worded on my part, as I was trying to show that Apple would want to show that it can run a 32-bit OS natively on a 64-bit processor...not that it would run any faster...just that it would run natively...
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post #227 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Thanks for clarifying that confusing line. It was poorly worded on my part, as I was trying to show that Apple would want to show that it can run a 32-bit OS natively on a 64-bit processor...not that it would run any faster...just that it would run natively...

No problem 8)

I think the issue for Apple at the introduction is to show everybody that it can run 32 bit apps faster than older models. I think others were right when they said the bake off will make a comeback - vs a G4 and maybe a P4. People will want to know that the software they have already paid a lot of money for will transition really well. I think I'm just repeating what you said tho. They won't be worried about a 64 bit OS until there are apps that will take advantage of one.

MM
post #228 of 345
DHagan4755 and MartianMatt,

I completely agree with your business stratgies. Release the 970 before WWDC and display its abilities with a 32 bit OS, compare it to the current G4s (and maybe the P4s), then . . . later on, wow the developers with Panther in 64 bit mode, just to throw some "icing on the cake".

And yes, part of it is because I 'd like to see the 970 out early, but I also have faith that a mildly massaged over "current" Mac OS can be handled most efficiently by the 970.
post #229 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by MacJedai
DHagan4755 and MartianMatt,

I completely agree with your business stratgies. Release the 970 before WWDC and display its abilities with a 32 bit OS, compare it to the current G4s (and maybe the P4s), then . . . later on, wow the developers with Panther in 64 bit mode, just to throw some "icing on the cake".

And yes, part of it is because I 'd like to see the 970 out early, but I also have faith that a mildly massaged over "current" Mac OS can be handled most efficiently by the 970.

I didn't mean to sound like I was articulating a business strategy. I was just trying to make a point about the behaviour of the 970 with 32 bit software. Personally I think that they should still try to push out a 64 bit OS on the 970 ASAP if only to beat the Athlon 64 into the mass market. If "OS X.64"(tm) * comes promptly then the "if you build it, they will come" syndrome will kick in. Developers won't want to start on their 64 versions until they can see that there will be a significant market when they are ready to release their apps. If they think that all the hypothetical early adoptors with a 970 and 32 bit OS will take a while to upgrade to "OS X.64"(tm) then they will wait until the critical mass is their (in their own judgement).

But I do agree 100% with your 2nd paragraph.

MM

* "OS X.64" is a trademark of MartianMatt Enterprises Ltd.
post #230 of 345
I assume you mean that it would be best to release the 970 running with a 32-bit OS X so everyone can see how well the 970 works with 32-bit. Then release 10.3 and tell all that you can run all your 32-bit programs and the "super-fast-big (MHz myth BS)" 64-bit apps too.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #231 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
I assume you mean that it would be best to release the 970 running with a 32-bit OS X so everyone can see how well the 970 works with 32-bit. Then release 10.3 and tell all that you can run all your 32-bit programs and the "super-fast-big (MHz myth BS)" 64-bit apps too.

No, what I mean is that they should release the 970 machine ASAP and release the OS X.64(tm) ASAP as well. I hope the later is coincident with the former because this will be the largest encouragement to 64 bit development on the platform. 32 bit apps will run the same on either a 32 or 64 bit OS for the 970 (all other things being equal) so there is no need to release a 32 bit OS just so as to prove compatibility of the 970 with 32 bit apps.

MM

[add the last sentance]
post #232 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by MartianMatt

* "OS X.64" is a trademark of MartianMatt Enterprises Ltd.

you dirty aliens always think you infented spaceflight because a stupid drunk redneck saw the dish flying through the air and thought: "wow, ufo" instead of: ow, the wife is very mad at me"...
so, we infented spaceflight (well, some drunk rednecks did, but you understand my point)

and now you think you are the first who named osx in its 64 bitness.
but osx 10.2.6 v64; osx 10.2.64 and osx 10.3 v64 are mentioned already in these boards.
you're late.

nagnagnagnagnag*



*we think original thoughts
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post #233 of 345
Apple Computer today announced the release of Mac OS X Gay Edition. The new OS will only work with the new "Gay Four" CPU, instead of the much anticipated PowerPC 970 (produced by IBM). Phil Shiller remarked that "it is essentially the same as Jaguar with a G4, but compared to the latest PC offerings it is 50% more gay!" The Gay Four CPU takes the G4's core and pairs it (anally) with a new emulated vector unit, Pentium style.

An obscure intellectual property developer, "MartianMatt Enterprises Ltd.", threatened legal action, claiming the new OS infringed on their OS X.Gay trademark.

The Iraqi Information Minister publicly denied the existance of the new Gay OS and CPU.

-AP
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post #234 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by gar
you dirty aliens always think you infented spaceflight because a stupid drunk redneck saw the dish flying through the air and thought: "wow, ufo" instead of: ow, the wife is very mad at me"...
so, we infented spaceflight (well, some drunk rednecks did, but you understand my point)

Little do you know... Muahahaha

Quote:
and now you think you are the first who named osx in its 64 bitness.
but osx 10.2.6 v64; osx 10.2.64 and osx 10.3 v64 are mentioned already in these boards.
you're late.

nagnagnagnagnag*

*we think original thoughts

Well, I pretty much stick to FH and even just the talk about future processors. At least OS 10.64 was mostly original. The (tm) thing was a joke that it seems our cobber Barto failed to grasp... \ I don't care what they call it as long as it is easier to say than "Apple's 64 bit version of OS X", which is why I "invented" a name for it for now.

As for the subject of this thread, I think the rest of the PC world has pretty much written off Apple as nothing more than a bit player with 3% share. I read a Cox News Service article today in our local rag (Seattle P-I) on the topic of the rumoured Universal Music aquisition interest which basically reinforced this outside view.

I want the 970 based powermacs to come out Real Soon Now but I think Apple has a little bit of room after the availability of the processors in quantity from IBM to make sure they get the whole package right. That, I think, includes all the motherboard features everyone is after running stably with a 64 bit OS X with fewer bugs than other first releases. Sure they could release with a 32 bit version as we discussed above but I don't think a month or two will matter if it means shipping with 64 bit. Especially since (we all hope) the 970 will really boost Apple's prospects and even market share. If the delay would be longer than that (if they have more work left to get a 64 bit OS X ready than we think) then they should definitely bring the 970 PM to market with whatever OS will run on it.

MM
post #235 of 345
The Mac OS X Gay Edition post was a reference to how absurd this thread and others have become, not a commentary on your posts in particular, MartianMatt.

Barto
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post #236 of 345
adding to the absurdity....

post #237 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
adding to the absurdity....



WINNER...this thread is over
8) 8)
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post #238 of 345
INSTANT CLASSIC!

Barto
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post #239 of 345
a freind of mine got an email from his buddy that works in a certain place in cupertino. I am just merely passing it on...=]


"The following is surely going to drop this September. It was leaked about 5 weeks ago, so I can tell you without pain and discomfort in my ballz.
Listen jerk, remember......you heard this from a bird on a big tree. Don't ****ing quote me you bitch. :P

The New PowerMac's all with the PPC970 Chip.
2 Models confirmed. (Possibly three)

1) Panther OS X 10.3 (Free upgrade from Jaguar. OS 9.2 will be terminated.)
2) 1.6Ghz-1.9Ghz, with the new PPC970 processor(maybe duals)
3) PCI extreme (much faster than PCI and AGP 8X and backwards compatible with PCI)
4) 900Mhz system Busses.
5) Serial ATA, Firewire 800, USB 2, AirportExtreme, BlueTooth
6) Water Cooling, so there is no fan noise!! :P"
post #240 of 345
Quote:
Originally posted by fgjh
6) Water Cooling, so there is no fan noise!! :P"

What?! Damn! What is this?!
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