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Is the 15inch AlPB really coming soon? - Page 4

post #121 of 559
8/25/03 at 11:37pm
Quote:
Originally posted by iDave
This is the biggest mystery I've ever seen of Apple. Sure, Motorola is slow coming up with new chips for what Apple would release as a speed-bumped new-skinned 15" PowerBook, with all the Al features one would expect. Why Apple didn't just bite the bullet and release one with a 1.0 Ghz processor and all the other features months ago to capture some of the school market, I'll never understand. Or, perhaps I will when it is finally released, but I doubt it.

If Apple somehow releases a G5 PowerBook soon, we'll all be surprised and excited, but it won't really explain this delay, at least not in my mind. Apple has had new technology people want; i.e. Bluetooth, Airport Extreme, Firewire 800, light up keyboards; and most people don't want to buy new expensive equipment that doesn't have it. Why hold up a new product with all these goodies over a speed-bump?

Cant work it out either?, still scratching my head!. What was wrong with adding these features in addition to maybe the 15.4"/better graphics, and better wireless?, unless the urban myth of a G5 PB materialises. Its really sad to see the limits of the G4 demonstrated for all to see!, damm embarassing as well.
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post #122 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:00am
Did anyone else notice that the "headline" picture on apple.com has changed? The G5 box has been moved to one of the small pictures/links at the bottom. The large galley display is now Macromedia software (yes, it's new this week, but....).

G5s with a week in the spotlight then...? Isn't it kind of strange that such a significant hardware product has been moved off to the side after a week?

'Scuse me while I go outside to check venus and mars for more hidden information.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
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1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
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post #123 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
G5s with a week in the spotlight then...? Isn't it kind of strange that such a significant hardware product has been moved off to the side after a week?

It actually makes me nervous. I think it means there won't be any new PB's announced today. Why would Apple put up a new promotion banner, just for one day?

Should find out soon, if it's not already too late. What time does Apple typically do their Tuesday announcements?
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post #124 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by Nerdly
It actually makes me nervous. I think it means there won't be any new PB's announced today. Why would Apple put up a new promotion banner, just for one day?

Should find out soon, if it's not already too late. What time does Apple typically do their Tuesday announcements?

9:00 am PST (?). The Microslut Word banner was only up for about a day just before the G5 "now shipping" display went up.

But I tend to think the way you are... nothing for weeks.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #125 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:13am
No updates today = *CONFIRMED* New G5 PowerBooks @ Paris Expo

....mmmokay, maybe not G5s and Apple just might spring something upon us before Paris but still... it's getting awfully close.

Screed
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post #126 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:43am
Okay, it's Tuesday...a full WEEK after three or so major rumor sites all but "confirmed" a PowerBook release "this week".

I hereby declare all rumor sites (and a good portion of you guys...and you know who you are) COMPLETELY full of shit and amateur straw graspers.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

So there.





PowerBook my ass...

It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.

It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...
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post #127 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:52am
Quote:
[i]Originally posted by pscates Okay, it's Tuesday...a full WEEK after three or so major rumor sites all but "confirmed" a PowerBook release "this week".

I hereby declare all rumor sites (and a good portion of you guys...and you know who you are) COMPLETELY full of shit and amateur straw graspers.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

So there.





PowerBook my ass...

It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.

It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...

you got links...
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
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post #128 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
It doesn't exist. It's like Bigfoot. Someone has some shaky, grainy footage of it rolling down a hallway at Cupertino, but that's about it.

It might've been a silver cafeteria tray with an Apple logo on it...

That totally made my morning.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #129 of 559
8/26/03 at 7:07am
I have to say that as disappointed as I am at the PowerBook delays, I really don't think that it's great a mystery. Given the lead-time in bringing a new product to market, a substantial delay by one supplier (guess who) can hold up an entire product line for months.

I posted quite some time back that none of us really had enough of an appreciation for just how badly Motorolla has screwed Apple. This is probably a great example.

My guess: Two years ago when Apple started working on the Albooks, Moto said Q1 '03 for the 7457. Apple said great because due to heat issue we can't go above 1 GHz in a laptop with a 7455. At some point, it likely became clear that Moto was going to be late so Apple made the switch to the current plan; intro the 12 and 17 with the 7455 but don't update the 15 because other than aluminum, FW800 and lighted keys it had nowhere to go. I suspect Apple was planning on updating before the fall for back to school but simply didn't get chips in time.

So the question becomes what is Apple's plan from this point, wait it out for the 7457, or try to roll out the G5 ahead of schedule? I wish I knew.
neumac
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post #130 of 559
8/26/03 at 7:33am
I say go full steam ahead on the G5 PowerBook (do whatever it takes and, in the meantime, drop the prices across the current PowerBooks to ridiculous, blow out levels) AND treat all of us to a live simulcast of Steve kicking the CEO of Motorola in the balls via satellite.

Fair enough? I think so.
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post #131 of 559
8/26/03 at 7:56am
isn't seybold on the 8th? what abbout that? is steve going to be there?
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post #132 of 559
8/26/03 at 3:12pm
Based upon a little archive digging: Motorola "officially" added the 7457 to their roadmap in Oct. '02. In Feb. '03 they came out with the following:

"Alpha" samples of the new Motorola PPC (7457) are available today, "Market" samples will ship in March, market introduction is scheduled for Q4/2003.

So, Apple has probably known about this huge hole in their PowerBook update cycle for well over a year, and not been able to do a thing about it. >1 GHz 7455's are too hot, 7457's wouldn't be ready, and 90 nm 970's wouldn't be ready.

About a month ago ATAT posted a report that Apple was expecting a shipment of new chips last May. Presumably 7457's.

So, Apple had a huge hole, Apple possibly got Moto to move up production to plug huge hole. Moto failed, Apple had a huge hole.

I wish I had the antacid concession at One Infinite Loop over the last year.
neumac
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post #133 of 559
8/26/03 at 3:31pm
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.
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post #134 of 559
8/26/03 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by macserverX
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.

We don't know of course, but it seems that Motorola didn't promise to have the 7457 available this spring. No promise means no lawsuit.
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post #135 of 559
8/26/03 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by neumac
So, Apple had a huge hole, Apple possibly got Moto to move up production to plug huge hole. Moto failed, Apple had a huge hole.

What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October). There no reason to expect that Apple ever intended to revise the AlBooks any faster than that; on the contrary, they like to get a lot of mileage out of new products.

Here's a simple theory: AlBooks were expected to last about nine months. The TiBook had to stay as it is to satisfy the laggards who want to boot in OS 9. All three get revised in the fall, by which time Moto is to be shipping the 7457 (fourth quarter).

Quote:
Originally posted by macserverX
Aren't you allowed to sue for market losses like this? If it's true of course. But guess Apple has to accuse and then prove it, which might be a little tough, don't know.

It would indeed be a little tough to sue Motorola for not shipping a processor that they never said they'd be shipping until next quarter.
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post #136 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:40pm
However it would be a very stupid move on behalf of Apple to delay an update to the 15" PB. Its the most popular model and it is the most dated. I'm sure Steve and the gang know this.

To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.
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post #137 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:51pm
Quote:
expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.

Have you ever been to France? I've been to France a few times and have never felt any hatred whatsoever. In fact, I've found the French to be the exact opposite of what most Americans claim they are. It seems to me that many Americans suffer from xenophobia.

B
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post #138 of 559
8/26/03 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by H4wk
To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.

Apple would very much like to sell to the European market (certainly more than they're selling now), and Paris happens to be a suitably sized town (to understate!) in a country that borders most of the rest of Europe, or close enough. Basically, if you're a company trying to reach the European market with a big festival, you could do a lot worse than Paris.

As for your last sentence, it's AppleOutsider material, but follow your own logic from the premise that Apple does hold an Expo in Paris every year, with great fanfare and large crowds, product introductions and Stevenotes.
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post #139 of 559
8/26/03 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tvc15
Have you ever been to France? I've been to France a few times and have never felt any hatred whatsoever. In fact, I've found the French to be the exact opposite of what most Americans claim they are. It seems to me that many Americans suffer from xenophobia.

B

I agree completely.
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post #140 of 559
8/26/03 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October). There no reason to expect that Apple ever intended to revise the AlBooks any faster than that; on the contrary, they like to get a lot of mileage out of new products.

Here's a simple theory: AlBooks were expected to last about nine months. The TiBook had to stay as it is to satisfy the laggards who want to boot in OS 9. All three get revised in the fall, by which time Moto is to be shipping the 7457 (fourth quarter).

We'll never know unless someone at Apple quits and writes a book. I agree with your assessment of the 12 and 17" Al PBs. They were introduced in January, they should last till the fall before the first revision. Basically, the 17" PB could have lasted until next January. It has all the latest technologies. It just needs a speed bump if one were available. The 12" (IMHO) could use a DVI out connector. In general I think most would agree that an update to the Al PBs, while nice, is not late.

The 15" Al PB is the puzzler. I think it should have come out in May or so. It could have debuted with the same CPU as the 17". That way all the PBs would be in sync. Apple could have maintained production of the Ti PB if they needed an OS 9 compatible PB. (Not sure that they do.) The Ti PB lacks Airport Express, built-in Bluetooth and the nicer build of the 17" PB as well as a number of other minor improvements.
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post #141 of 559
8/26/03 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
What exactly are you basing that on? The first TiBooks went nine months before their revision (January to October).

It was simply my best guess at what may have happened based upon rumors (there's that word) and even one or two facts.

But, in my opinion, and I am willing to bet Apple's, 10 months without an update for the Tibook, a 10 months which includes the back-to-school season, is a huge hole. It also doesn't make sense, as others have stated, that Apple hasn't updated the 15" TiBook 8 months after the release of the AlBooks. It seems almost certain that something unfortunate is going on.

The reference to Apple perhaps trying to get Moto to plug the hole is based on Jack's column of reports of a missed Moto shipment in May. That may be hogwash, but Jack is usually somewhat reliable.
neumac
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post #142 of 559
8/27/03 at 2:17am
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
The 15" Al PB is the puzzler. I think it should have come out in May or so. It could have debuted with the same CPU as the 17". Apple could have maintained production of the Ti PB if they needed an OS 9 compatible PB. (Not sure that they do.) The Ti PB lacks Airport Express, built-in Bluetooth and the nicer build of the 17" PB as well as a number of other minor improvements.

i agree with you about the missing features in the 15" holding it up. and causing speculation about the vapourware 15" AlPB. Apple must have known at the start of the year that the next G4 and first G5's wouldn't be available until Sept/Oct. Apple's apparent policy of no update without a speed bump doesn't make sense to a lot of people- hence these endless rumor threads \

despite our critiques, steve's year of the laptop seems to have come true. ibook+powerbook percentage of hardware sales ($):
Q1 41%
Q2 46%
Q3 51%
of course whether this would have been even higher with a 15"Al PB will remain a topic of speculation
here's hoping the wait is worth it: Panther Powerbooks in Paris...
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post #143 of 559
8/27/03 at 5:00am
year of the laptop as the numbers suggest steve knew these numvers before we did, when planning the g5 he had to of thought of g5 laptops agree, and so too ibm because they are seeing the same numbers. so it isn't out of reach to expect steve and ibm to have parallel paths, g5 desktop and g5 laptops. so maybe with steves experience with moto, he and ibm have been doing a g5laptop thing all along and with the "year of the laptop" means big $$$$$$ and not wanting to miss it. so here comes expo paris and chaching, the g5 desktop has huge orders now for the laptop, no momentum lost. if indeed most of g5 sales so far are dual, that would not eat into laptop sales. steve is smart and this hole has to be filled hopefully people won't go dell
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post #144 of 559
8/27/03 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by H4wk

To wait and debute the new 15" at frog fest is way beyond me ....... why the hell do we have an expo in France anyway ...... they hate us with as much enthusiasm as we have for them.


you are an idiot.
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post #145 of 559
8/27/03 at 10:52am
The education bundle deals have hit the UK:
...
[www.apple.com/uk] Apple has announced a new deal for teachers and students, offering substantial discounts on its already discounted educational prices.

UK teachers and students can buy any PowerBook or qualifying iBook together with an iPod and/or an HP printer. Buy both the iPod and printer for a total saving of £180 on the already discounted educational price; or save £120 on an iPod plus notebook deal, or £60 on the printer plus notebook deal. ...

These discounts are available until November 25 2003. More details are available from Apple UK.
...

(Without meaning to incur the wrath of Pscates on on of his tirades) IMHO this looks like a solid indicator of a significant update to the PB line at Paris. I know the American PB-iPod-HP deals run out soon - this almost seems like a desperate attempt to 'get rid' of soon-to-be-out-of-date product.

I havent been a Mac addict long enough to know if the UK Apple store do this kind of deal very often, nor what it means. Any ideas?

I meant "source:[www.macworld.co.uk]"
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post #146 of 559
8/27/03 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
The education bundle deals have hit the UK:
...
[www.apple.com/uk] Apple has announced a new deal for teachers and students, offering substantial discounts on its already discounted educational prices.

UK teachers and students can buy any PowerBook or qualifying iBook together with an iPod and/or an HP printer. Buy both the iPod and printer for a total saving of £180 on the already discounted educational price; or save £120 on an iPod plus notebook deal, or £60 on the printer plus notebook deal. ...

These discounts are available until November 25 2003. More details are available from Apple UK.
...

(Without meaning to incur the wrath of Pscates on on of his tirades) IMHO this looks like a solid indicator of a significant update to the PB line at Paris. I know the American PB-iPod-HP deals run out soon - this almost seems like a desperate attempt to 'get rid' of soon-to-be-out-of-date product.

I havent been a Mac addict long enough to know if the UK Apple store do this kind of deal very often, nor what it means. Any ideas?

I meant "source:[www.macworld.co.uk]"

I think you're right, looks like nothing will happen before Paris - there are only two more Tuesdays before then (if you go by that) so yesterday was the last chance imo.

Really, though once you conclude that nothing will happen till Paris, and considering the lack of leaked info, the question of whether something's gone horribly wrong rather than a scheduled release starts to raise it's head.

Personally, I'm starting to suspect there is a problem. Paris better come up with a significant update or a mind-blowing diversion else it's going to all hit the fan.
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post #147 of 559
8/27/03 at 11:20am
Future excerpt from Steve Jobs' Paris Expo keynote...

"And now let me introduce the new 15" G4 Aluminum PowerBook.

It's got Firewire 800, USB 2.0 , Airport Extreme, a 2 x Superdrive , a backlit keyboard, and a 1.2Ghz 7457 motorola processor. And we have a special guest today, Bob Jerkov, VP Processor Development for Motorola to discuss the availability dates of these new Powerbooks. Bob, take it away..."

Bob loosens his tie.. and shifts his weight from side to side...

"Well, ummm ...."

Tomatoes start flying....

MSKR
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post #148 of 559
8/27/03 at 12:02pm
According to MacBidouille, Motorola could not supply the 7457 chips so the next PowerBooks will have 7455B chips instead with 7457 PowerBooks in January. Will someone just shoot me and put me out of my misery!

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post #149 of 559
8/27/03 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Masker
Future excerpt from Steve Jobs' Paris Expo keynote...

"And now let me introduce the new 15" G4 Aluminum PowerBook.

It's got Firewire 800, USB 2.0 , Airport Extreme, a 2 x Superdrive , a backlit keyboard, and a 1.2Ghz 7457 motorola processor. And we have a special guest today, Bob Jerkov, VP Processor Development for Motorola to discuss the availability dates of these new Powerbooks. Bob, take it away..."

Bob loosens his tie.. and shifts his weight from side to side...

"Well, ummm ...."

Tomatoes start flying....

MSKR


At which point the crowd starts chanting... "G5, G5, G5!!"

Bob walks off stages then the crowd erupts, "Nah-na Nah-na, Nah-na, Nah-na, Hey-Hey-Hey, GOOD BYE !!!"
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post #150 of 559
8/27/03 at 12:25pm
I would still prefer to see Steve kick him in the balls.
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post #151 of 559
8/27/03 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Well you should all thank me! I bought a new 17inch Powerbook today. This pretty much guarantees that the new PB's will be here very soon! By the way those of you that were talking about buying my 12inch PB need to contact me right away!
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post #152 of 559
8/27/03 at 1:01pm
Isn't the 7455B the same chip used in the current G4 tower at 1.25 GHz? Doesn't that thing generate a fair amount of heat? Wouldn't its use in an AlBook render one sterile?

Geez, I can't believe all the rumors, all the delays, and all the wild speculation. Hardly anything makes any sense.

First off, there's no way Steve Jobs would get up on a stage in Paris and announce 1.25 GHz G4 PBs. He'd be booed off the stage. If all we're going to get is a 15" AlBook that's like its 17" older brother, why not just issue a PR? If Steve could announce G5 PBs, you'd be able hear the cheers echo all the way down the Champs Elyse.

If the old 7455B is going to be used in a PB update and all that's needed is a PR, what's the holdup? Surely the channel is dry enough.

Just going quietly insane.
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post #153 of 559
8/27/03 at 1:01pm
I'm beginning to think we may not see an update to the 15" PB for a long time. Maybe I'll find a used Ti Book to tide me over till then.
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post #154 of 559
8/27/03 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
Isn't the 7455B the same chip used in the current G4 tower at 1.25 GHz?

Some are probably. Others are probably the the 7455A chip. If the 1.25 GHz 7455B is fabbed on Moto's low-k 180 nm process, which is used for the 1.42 GHz G4, then it's going to be a pretty expensive chip.

Quote:
Doesn't that thing generate a fair amount of heat? Wouldn't its use in an AlBook render one sterile?

If the AlBook can dissipate 30 Watts of heat from the CPU, it'll be very usable.

Quote:
Geez, I can't believe all the rumors, all the delays, and all the wild speculation. Hardly anything makes any sense.

Actually, there have been zero delays. Apple has never ever stated when a new Powerbook will arrive. The rest has all been gossip.
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post #155 of 559
8/27/03 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
According to MacBidouille...

Yes, they've been SO dead-on and helpful in the past. I'd hang my hat on what they say.



Aren't they pretty much MOSR with a beret? I don't know, I'm asking...

Guys, these are all the same sites that have said everything from "970 PowerBook at WWDC!" to "New aluminum 15" PowerBooks in the retail channels!". That crap never pans out, so WHY would you put any faith in any of their other stuff?



"It's coming. They're coming. They're almost here. Any day now! Get ready."

"Dammit, they're not either!"

"Bonjour, there's a delay..."

"Oh rats! They're probably right!"

WTF?!?!
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post #156 of 559
8/27/03 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Actually, there have been zero delays. Apple has never ever stated when a new Powerbook will arrive. The rest has all been gossip.

OK, I guess "delays" wasn't the right word. I guess I should have said overly extended upgrade interval.
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post #157 of 559
8/27/03 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Yes, they've been SO dead-on and helpful in the past. I'd hang my hat on what they say.



Aren't they pretty much MOSR with a beret and a glass or wine? I don't know, I'm asking...

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post #158 of 559
8/27/03 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
I'm beginning to think we may not see an update to the 15" PB for a long time. Maybe I'll find a used Ti Book to tide me over till then.

I agree.
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post #159 of 559
8/27/03 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
The education bundle deals have hit the UK: Apple has announced a new deal for teachers and students, offering substantial discounts on its already discounted educational prices.

UK teachers and students can buy any PowerBook or qualifying iBook together with an iPod and/or an HP printer.
These discounts are available until November 25 2003. More details are available from Apple UK.
...

In Australia the iPod and Powerbook/iBook deal goes until Sept 30. Maybe the new models will announce in Paris mid-Sept and ship in Oct?
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post #160 of 559
8/27/03 at 4:20pm
sniff, sniff...
i smell fear
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