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Is the 15inch AlPB really coming soon? - Page 7

post #241 of 559
Well, the Paris Expo is only two weeks away (since the thing will actually occur at like 4 AM here on the east coast, maybe 13.5 days away). Regardless, it's going to be a long two weeks, I will tell you that.
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post #242 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Well, the Paris Expo is only two weeks away (since the thing will actually occur at like 4 AM here on the east coast, maybe 13.5 days away). Regardless, it's going to be a long two weeks, I will tell you that.


That's 2 weeks 2 long. And if all they announce is a G4 speed bump at an expo, it's gonna be pretty lame IMO. At this point, a G4 speed bump barely warrants a press release. The only reasons why they should announce it at an expo is if:

1) it's a G5
OR
2) it's a G4, but starts at 1.6 GHz (or at the very least starts out at 1.3 and maxes out at 1.6), has 512RAM and 64VRAM, the 12 inch is not crippled in any way (that includes lighted keyboard), has bluetooth and airport extreme built in (not just ready) AND prices remain the same.
OR
3) it has some killer new advancement like 7hour+ battery life (which probably isn't unfeasible because the new G4s are supposed to have lower power consumption. Plus, one of the main draws of Apple laptops has been the usable battery life in comparison with PC laptops, but Intel has pretty much caught up in that respect with the Centrino, so it would be great if Apple can manage to get ahead in that field again.)


If they just announce new G4 Powrbooks at 1 to 1.2 Ghz, make the 15 inch aluminum and airport extreme ready and nothing else, I hope the French start booing and throwing tomatoes and eggs! Because that would be beyond pathetic.
post #243 of 559
I wouldn't mind if the PowerBook was running a G4 as high as, say, 1.25 or 1.33 GHz, but an expo announcement would probably have one of those niceties mentioned such as extra battery life (an hour extra on battery? Yes please) or backlit keyboards on the whole line.

I don't see Apple putting in anything higher than that though. Apple has to compete against Centrino laptops, and they don't want to risk having less battery life than they do now.
post #244 of 559
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post #245 of 559
that will be just fine thx, bring it on
post #246 of 559
Here's the text of newportnews' post at MacNN (updated as per his later post regarding graphics chip for 12" PB):

"I went to my university tech store today and I was looking on their order list and they had listed some new specs for iBooks and Powerbooks. They wouldn't let me take the paper with me but I copied it down and here is what it said:

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
128 MB
30 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB)
CD-ROM

$999

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
256 MB RAM
40 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB RAM)
Combo

$1399


Powerbook G4 12"
1 Ghz G4
256K L2
1 MB L3
256 MB RAM
40 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 (64 MB)
Combo
USB 2

$1799

(w/ Superdrive $1999)


Powerbook G4 15"
1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
60 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (64 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Backlit Keyboard

$2799


Powerbook G4 17"

1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
80 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (128 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Airport Extreme
Backlit Keyboard

$3299
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post #247 of 559
Quote:

I'd be expecting iBooks to go to the G4, but not this soon. I'd also expect a boost in hard drive sizes in the 12" and 15" PowerBooks, rather than seeing the default stay at 40 GB. I'm very skeptical.
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post #248 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Here's the text of newportnews' post at MacNN (updated as per his later post regarding graphics chip for 12" PB):

"I went to my university tech store today and I was looking on their order list and they had listed some new specs for iBooks and Powerbooks. They wouldn't let me take the paper with me but I copied it down and here is what it said:

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
128 MB
30 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB)
CD-ROM

$999

iBook
900 Mhz G4
(100 Mhz Bus)
256K L2
256 MB RAM
40 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32 MB RAM)
Combo

$1399


Powerbook G4 12"
1 Ghz G4
256K L2
1 MB L3
256 MB RAM
40 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 (64 MB)
Combo
USB 2

$1799

(w/ Superdrive $1999)


Powerbook G4 15"
1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
60 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 (64 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Backlit Keyboard

$2799


Powerbook G4 17"

1.25 Ghz G4
256 K L2
1 MB L3
512 MB
80 GB Ultra ATA
ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (128 MB)
Superdrive
USB 2
FW 800
Airport Extreme
Backlit Keyboard

$3299


Hm...I wonder how they got these. Perhaps Steve sent them a personal fax with the new specs and nobody else. Give me a Break ! How would they know and nobody else?
post #249 of 559
I don't understand Why no backlit keyboard on the 12?!?!

That doesn't make sense. I'm skeptical.

Also, G4 iBook that's only 100 MHz less than the low end Powerbook WTF?!?!?
post #250 of 559
Wow, I wonder if that is real? Kinda bummed that the 15" jumped back up $200...



Pretty much putting it out of my reach...sigh.

Although, this is just random stuff on a message board. Any dipstick with half an imagination could've wrote up that spec sheet. Again, I'll believe it when I see it on Apple's website.

But that 12" is now looking quite spiffy (1MB L3 cache, 64MB graphics, etc.). But, again, it's jumping back up to the previous higher pricepoints...

I hope SOME of the stuff on this list is true (specs) and the other stuff is way off base (price).

How's that?

post #251 of 559
Those specs are bizarre. The 12" PB is orphaned. For $800 over the cost of (what I take to be the 12") iBook G4 you get... what, exactly? 100MHz, L3, a combo drive, and a GPU two notches better? Oh, and USB 2. And, uh, monitor spanning standard.



I can only hope that they've managed to do something with it that isn't going to show up in a spec sheet, like shrink it down to less than an inch thick and shave off half a pound, since it seems to me to be floating in limbo where it is now. It's not like the resolution can go much higher before Apple has to license Squintronic(TM) technology from Dell...
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post #252 of 559
Yeah, you're right on. Something about this just looks off. Not to mention, quite a bummer in the whole "specrice" relationship. Everything's jumped up $200 and I can't really see why.



I hope this is a hoax and someone just pulling our chains a bit...
post #253 of 559
Fishy. Where's the fishy emoticon? If true, you'd have a 7455B cranked up a bit. <yawn!> Same RAM, HD combos for $200 more?? Sucky. Where's the sucky emoticon?

Well, the Radeon 9200 isn't bad for the 15".

If it comes with a 15.4" display and all the goodies, it won't be so bad but charging more doesn't make a whole lot of good marketing sense. I sure hope that prices and specs are a bit better than this. If this is what Steve announces in 2 weeks, expect some groans from the audience. What does a French groan sound like?
post #254 of 559
2 main reasons its fake: 1. the university wouldnt have these specs till product announced. 2. a g4 ibook would not be only 100 MHz below 1GHz pbook and be $800 cheaper. a couple smaller reasons its fake: he talks about the employee getting 'real worried' about him seeing these specs but somehow was able to stand there and copy them down. then has to make up an excuse that he added 15% to his school discount to get the retail prices when someone questions him about that. now he was conservative on the 1.25 GHz G4 15 and 17 and didn't try to pull a G5 out of his butt so give him some credit there.
post #255 of 559
Just for your information, today macbidouille posts a rumor about the long awaited powerbooks (it warns that it is just a rumor and not fact, but their source is said to be reliable). So, they say that Motorola is still unable to manufacture the PPC 7457 in sufficient volume and the percentage of processors with the required technical qualifications is very low. Furthermore, Apple refuses to use the 7455B since, beyond the 1 GHz, the energy consumption is very high and the heat issue very hard to solve. All that means that there will be no new powerbooks before mid-October.

On the other hand, they report that IBM is on schedule with the G5 in 0.09 microns. Sampling will start at the end of November and the CPU will be finalized in February, as expected. The project PPC 980 goes well too.

Take it FWIW.
post #256 of 559
Along with the above Mac Scooby-Doo story is our own AI posting:



PowerBook Update in Shambles?
September 2nd- 9:37PM EST

Updates to Apple's professional PowerBook line are nearly three months past due. Retail outlets have long since exhausted their inventory of the current PowerBook models and Apple's two major distributors are fairing no better.

According to continually reliable sources, the computer maker is still scrounging for ample supplies of faster G4 processors and have already been forced to rewrite the enabler code for the forthcoming units in favor of an alternative mobile G4 breed.

"It's increasingly becoming a retail and revenue disaster," one source told AppleInsider. "[Apple's] current plan is to salvage the update as soon as possible while rushing plans to deliver a G5 PowerBook within the first 3 months of the next calendar year."

An unconfirmed report claims that company has been toying with prototype PowerBook G5 enclosures sporting a technique (and appearance) similar to the Power Mac G5's honey-comb ventilation system.



Well buying my 1GHz TiBook the day it came out last November was definitely the right call.

I was going to jump on a new 17" right away, but if they ain't comin' until October I might as well wait for the G5 PBs in early 2004.
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post #257 of 559
YEAR OF THE LAPTOP!
post #258 of 559
Hmm,
if Moto can't get the 7457 out of the door, Apple will have little choice but release one hell of a lackluster update to the Powerbook line. They cannot just lie low and bid the time until the 90nm 970/980 is due, because IBM will likely have to push back the release date of this chip too.

So, I'd predict a 1.0/1.2 Ghz lineup announced in Paris and delivered in mid-october based on the 7455. Those books are going to run hot and suck battery but will be a stopgap release for the next 6 month or so.
post #259 of 559
*amarone dreaming*

hmm, maybe Apple & IBM worked simultaneously on a "portable G5" like the centrino is ...

that would be a nice surprise ...

*dream ends*
post #260 of 559
Those specs would be real only if they were due to announce an update, like today. But with Paris so close, it doesn't seem like they'd update the PowerBooks at this time, so it calls into question those specs. I think Apple is going to do what it can to push minor updates out the door. It seems they are having trouble even trying to do that.
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post #261 of 559
That little 12" iBook is looking sweeter every day...
post #262 of 559
Guys.....let's just ignore all the crap rumours going on at the moment and just wait and see what happens @ Paris.

I guarantee we'll be seeing more "Scooby-Doo" rumour stories the closer we get to Paris. I can also guarantee Valium inventories will drop dramatically as that day nears.

Mmmmmm.....Valium.....arrhhhhhh!

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post #263 of 559
If these latest rumors are indeed true (and considering Motorola's track-record thus far, I'm inclined to go "yeah, sounds about right...") can I pretty much speak for the entire forum for a moment? Thank you...

"WHAT THE $@#%^#@%^@%^& IS THE DEAL WITH #%#@!#$% MOTOROLA? WHY IN THE $#%&^@ CAN'T THEY EVER $#@%$%@@% COME THROUGH AND DELIVER? HOW MANY $#@^& TIMES HAVE THEY TRIPPED US UP, HELD US BACK, CAUSED DELAYS AND OTHERWISE GUMMED UP THE $@#@%^# WORKS?"

Thank you. I feel better now.

You guys are aware that we'd be knocking on the 2GHz door (possibly higher?) right about now on most every Mac had things gone the way they should've? That initial 50MHz downgrade at the intro of the G4 should've been a huge omen. Then we got to 500MHz...and say there for about a decade it seemed. Then we got minor (and I mean MINOR) bumps and enhancements over the next couple of years. The G4 iMac went a year without an update, the PowerBooks have gone 10 and 8 months it seems (and when updates do arrive, I'm betting they're not going to be worth this wait).
I'm sure others here can speak to reasons of a business, engineering or managment nature as to why things are the way they are.

But honestly, I ask you: how can one company - a company as well-known and "in the game" as Motorola - be this unreliable? Is this G4 chip somehow special or unusual in that it is somehow harder-than-most to manufacture? Seriously...how many time, over the past 3-4 years, have things just petered out and we've sat around in yet another dry spell, waiting for them?

How many "second chances" does a company get? Is there not some sort of "bug off!" clause in the contracts where Apple, after being left in the lurch AGAIN, can implement a back-up plan or go elsewhere? I don't this end of it, so who knows? It seems after about the third Motorola-based debacle, Jobs & Co. would've said "this TOTALLY sucks...we need to look elsewhere, TODAY...".

If this was a one-time (even twice) kinda thing, who cares? That's just life. But we're just now (2003) pooching through the 1GHz barrier (barely). Meanwhile, IBM...
post #264 of 559
My guess is if Apple (Motorola) can't get the chips ready, the only thing we'll see is a slightly revised 15" at MW Paris to tie them over. The 12" and 17" would be untouched since a larger update would happen in maybe the new year.

The 15" would have the same aluminum enclosure and some of the nicities of the 17", but as far as speed, it 'll remain at 1 GHz.
post #265 of 559
No doubt the "bug-off/sod-off" clause came up a couple of years ago for non-performance and allowed Apple to pursue IBM.
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post #266 of 559
From AppleInsider:

Updates to Apple's professional PowerBook line are nearly three months past due. Retail outlets have long since exhausted their inventory of the current PowerBook models and Apple's two major distributors are fairing no better. According to continually reliable sources, the computer maker is still scrounging for ample supplies of faster G4 processors and have already been forced to rewrite the enabler code for the forthcoming units in favor of an alternative mobile G4 breed. "It's increasingly becoming a retail and revenue disaster," one source told AppleInsider.

From Macboudille:

Motorola is still failing to produce PPC7457 in large volumes. the rate of processors succeeding to the quality control and validation tests are dramatically low. Moreover, it seems that Apple does not want to use the 7455B in its portable computers. Over 1GHz, battery-life is really low, and a terrible amount of heat is generated. without a miracle, we will not see new Apple portable computers before mid October.

Ouch, is the only word suitable for public consumption that I can come up with. I hope that Motorola at least bought Apple dinner first.
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post #267 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
WHAT THE $@#%^#@%^@%^& IS THE DEAL WITH #%#@!#$% MOTOROLA? WHY IN THE $#%&^@ CAN'T THEY EVER $#@%$%@@% COME THROUGH AND DELIVER? HOW MANY $#@^& TIMES HAVE THEY TRIPPED US UP, HELD US BACK, CAUSED DELAYS AND OTHERWISE GUMMED UP THE $@#@%^# WORKS?"

Nicely put :-)

Quote:

You guys are aware that we'd be knocking on the 2GHz door (possibly higher?) right about now on most every Mac had things gone the way they should've?

Part of the problem is economics of scale (or lack thereof). Apple sells too few computers to make developing a kick-ass CPU worthwile - intel and AMD are locked into a all-out destined-to-kill competition pushing the limits of processor development further and further. They can only do so because both are selling the things by the million - and lately it seems that AMD is having problems maintaining the tempo.
The Mac market is too small to warrant the same huge investment into CPU development - IBM clearly wants to use the 970 in server blades, else it would not exist. If, on the other hand, AMD outsells IBM in this market, there is not going to be a 980, 990 or anything like that - they will scale the 970 as slowly as Moto scaled the G4.

So Apple needs to act. They need to sell more CPUs even if it means bringing back clones, slashing prices, licensing MacOS X.
post #268 of 559
Forgive me, then, if this is a dumb question: why can't Apple partner with Intel or AMD? I don't know, I'm asking.

Why can't WE get some of this 3GHz-level goodness?

post #269 of 559
On a semi-related note, you know what this kinda means? A week or so ago, when several sites were saying "new PowerBooks are in the channel and are set to be announced at any minute", it means they are all COMPLETELY full of shit, aren't they?

How in the name of crap did we go from idiotic claims of "970 PowerBooks at WWDC!" to "7457 PowerBooks now in the channels!" to "most likely, we're looking at mid-October...and possibly 7455-based"?



Here's a suggestion: if you own a rumor site, work the phrase "random musings and unreliable horseshit" somewhere into the masthead or logo, just so everyone is clear.



The only thing that keeps me from getting TOO bummed out at this latest "news" is the fact that these people haven't been right YET about any PowerBook-related stuff, so...

post #270 of 559
Keeping in mind that I don't know how any of this really affects things, just what I hear, I think it comes down to two things. The design and manufacturing. HAHA, but seriously. Moto has had well publicized manufacturing problems, OK, Crolles might help them out of that, but that's only just begun. On the IBM side, Fishkill didn't just materialize overnight either.

Then there's the design. IBM hasn't exactly done cracking things with the 32bit PPC either. IBM too promised altivec G3's in the 2Ghx range and has not been able to get them made, in fact they never had a G3 with better performance or a higher clock rate than motos G4 for the entire life of the G3/4 lines. Yeah, they helped fab G4's once, proving they had better fabrication know-how, but that's gotta tell you something about the short pipeline design, altivec or not. Now Moto has pushed the .18u process to 1.42, IBM hasn't gotten 32bit PPC past 1Ghz, even witht he smaller process, and efficiency isn't that great either when my 12" powerbook (with a suposedly hot G4) manages to return the same battery life as a 12" iBook.

Now at least IBM has an alternative, the G5, and it seems people are talking about scaling that down to .09u and some battery saving features rather than cooler/faster 32 bit PPC. Obviously there has been a design problem witht he 32bit PPC that forced this migration to 64. Cool, but remember that even IBM hasn't been much of a friend when it comes to 32 bit, worse in fact, than even moto.

Get me .09u G5's for everything, and I don't really care, but...
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post #271 of 559
Well glad I ordered my TiBook at such a nice price and didnt wait for a stinky update. With the edu discount it was just too hard to pass up. And atleast ill get it in september and not mid october or probably november. I think the ti enclose looks cooler than the aluminum anyway.
post #272 of 559
I really am curious why Moronola sucks so much. And sucks harder every day

Think they should completely pull off their legs from the semi-conductor industry. they are the real shame
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post #273 of 559
I'm about *this close* to pulling the trigger on a nice, affordable 12" PowerBook (murbot loves his, he says) and be done with it. I can sell the iMac at my leisure and continue saving and perhaps jump on a G5 PowerBook when/if they materialize in 2004.

I give these goons until Paris, then that's IT.

post #274 of 559
Oh...on the other hand

If Apple is going to release G5 PB in the Jan-March 2004 timeframe iMac should be using the lower clock G5 and iBook will be using 1GHz + G3

By doing this Apple will be completely out of the Moto nightmere.

In order to make the PowerMac line more attractive Apple will have to make them all dual processors.

If that happens, I definitely WILL get the rev B G5
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post #275 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
On a semi-related note, you know what this kinda means? A week or so ago, when several sites were saying "new PowerBooks are in the channel and are set to be announced at any minute", it means they are all COMPLETELY full of shit, aren't they?

Not by any means disagreeing with you about the accuracy of rumors, but Think Secret and others stated that the PowerBook revision was finished, but that they did not know when it would be released. Although they did think that it was sooner rather than later.

It seems likely that the revision has been "finished" from a pre-production standpoint for as long as 3 months. The problem appears to be that there are no production parts to actually build 'books to sell.

Oh, and flowers, dinner and flowers would have been nice. Moto should have given Apple cab fare home, too.
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post #276 of 559
Well, let's not pick any nits TOO closely. We'll all irked. And it looks to be, again, Motorola. All I know is that there was a real "any minute now!" tone just a week or so ago...

Don't bother me with details, son...I'm mad!

post #277 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
Keeping in mind that I don't know how any of this really affects things, just what I hear, I think it comes down to two things. The design and manufacturing.

No, it comes down to more than two things:

1) Motorola management takes bad to baditudinous new levels of badness - "Dilbert" was inspired by Motorola (which, appropriately, held #1 on the Dilbert Index for years), and Motorola employees have given Scott Adams years worth of strip ideas. Things have reportedly been improving since the shareholder revolt, but turning a corporation that large with a culture that compromised is not easy or quick. Really, this is the root cause: all other problems stem from the utter, baffling incompetence of Motorola's management, from the executive suite on down.

2) Mot didn't pay their senior CPU engineers well, or give them raises, or even treat them like senior CPU engineers. They left for Intel some two years ago, and who can blame them?

3) Iridium. This white whale distracted the company from its core competency, drained away billions upon billions of dollars, and finally ended up getting sold for something like $250 million under the auspices of a bankruptcy court. Forget the $100M charge Motorola took from the clone cancellation (which was also a consistent money loser). This was a years-long sucking chest wound for the company.

4) Process technology. What was left of Motorola CPU engineering has taken a few gambles on process tech that haven't paid off, and they're still having very little luck transferring tech that works just fine in their labs to full-scale manufacturing.

5) Fabrication. Mot had a bunch of old fabs lying around losing money, either because they were running, but couldn't compete with the likes of TSMC, or because they were literally standing empty and bleeding money, like Mot's one fab in China.

6) Fabrication. Mot had so little money that they had to stop the fans in their fabs to save on electricity bills. The resulting filth made them almost unusable, except for things like flash memory.

The claim that Apple doesn't have the market share to have any say in CPU design is manifestly false: Since 1994 at the very latest, Apple has had a hand in the design of every single CPU they've used, including the 970 - and the 970 itself is proof that Apple can ask for and get a high-end CPU (because they're not going to be the only customer). In fact, IBM had come through for them one time before with the 604/604e/604ev series - a monster of a CPU in its day. Motorola couldn't produce a high-end CPU for reasons specific to Motorola, not to Apple. Apple's market share relative to overall PowerPC market share is actually an advantage: They'd be a bit player for Intel, and so Intel would essentially ignore their needs.

As for Motorola, they've done a lot of necessary things to turn themselves around in the last year. Crolles is an important step in the return to profitability. Once they're profitable again, they can hire talent. Once they have talent, they can respond more quickly and competently to Apple's design needs, and to their own process needs. But this is a matter of years. In the mean time, they'll be limping along. Wild card: Apple has CPU designers, and Mot has made noises about a "high end PPC" to debut sometime next year. But this just means they're trying hard to turn around, not that they're back to their old Six Sigma form.
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post #278 of 559
What I visualize is say, 10,000 (could be more, right? But more than is a number that will just make me ill) aluminum shells of 15" powerbooks, sans motherboards, stacked up somewhere in Taiwan waiting for Mot G4s. And waiting.

So if they wait long enough, they are just a pile of what-might-have-been scrap, because G5s would require much different engineering, and probably different case design and asthetetics (right?).

Don't know if it's a true picture, but that is the image dancing through my head these days as I drift off to sleepy-land.
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post #279 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
What I visualize is say, 10,000 (could be more, right? But more than is a number that will just make me ill) aluminum shells of 15" powerbooks, sans motherboards, stacked up somewhere in Taiwan waiting for Mot G4s.

I hear those shells make dandy bento boxes.

Screed ...and tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow...
MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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post #280 of 559
Okay, here's the conundrum for us, the rumor-mongers that we are.

First of all, I think it's possible that some of the rumors of the last 48 hours back to 6 months ago, could have some basis in truth. They may be far from close, or they may reflect only a small portion of the reality that is the new, updated PowerBooks.

It could be that Apple indeed, while working on new Power Macs, was also playing around with the design of new PowerBooks sporting the cooler, low-end G5s, gameplanning that they may just work until the next revision would be due using the .09 process. Regardless, Apple has had to have some warning that the 7547's were not yielding, or ramping into production levels sufficient to hedge new product releases on.

It also could be that Motorola is knifing Apple because they read the writing on the wall. I mean, yes, Apple has said that Motorola is very important to them, but to what end? Could that have been pretty PR talk to cover for some backroom wrangling with Motorola upon the realization that IBM was the direction that Apple was moving? Motorola had to figure that since they weren't doing much with their future processors anyway that Apple had to be working on alternate plans. But when they learned that Apple was in essence switching to IBM did this provide the catalyst for Motorola to completely drop the ball on all remaining business interests?

Therefore, it think the soap opera is quietly leaking out subtly so that we have to put the pieces together. We may yet see G5 PowerBooks in a couple of weeks, if the plan of milking G4's until 0.09 G5's isn't going to work as Apple originally intended.
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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