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Is the 15inch AlPB really coming soon? - Page 13

post #481 of 559
Well that puts a nail in my argument. Ok, now the question is whether to buy a top of the line 15" 7457 Powerbook, or hold on to my iBook 800 and wait for the G5. Hmmmmm, decisions decisions.
post #482 of 559
Here is a pic of the G5 chip and heatsink. Like to see them stuff that in 1" thick frame...
Stolen from MacArs thread..
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post #483 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
Here is a pic of the G5 chip and heatsink. Like to see them stuff that in 1" thick frame...
Stolen from MacArs thread..


Uh...that's for a G5 running at 1.8 Ghz. It is a FACT that a G5 running at 1.2 Ghz dissipates = or less heat than a 7455 G4 (ya know...the one's CURRENTLY in that 1" frame) and also uses less power.
post #484 of 559
I have NO problem buying a Powerbook G4 if it is a 7457 G4 running at 1.3 Ghz, with 512KB L2 and 2MB L3 cache with a Radeon graphics card, backlit keybaord, AE, BT, FW800, the works...but it better be at the same price point or I am just gonna pass and wait for the G5. Sorry, just had to throw that out there...
post #485 of 559
Yea, I'd say a picture of a 1.6, 1.8, or 2.0 GHz G5 heat sink is not evidence that the G5 isn't ready for a powerbook.

What does the heatsink in a 1.0 GHz dual look like? You may as well use all the space you can!

Looks like it isn't going to happen, of course, but G5s will be in powerbooks someday, right?
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

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1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #486 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by filmmaker2002
I have NO problem buying a Powerbook G4 if it is a 7457 G4 running at 1.3 Ghz, with 512KB L2 and 2MB L3 cache with a Radeon graphics card, backlit keybaord, AE, BT, FW800, the works...but it better be at the same price point or I am just gonna pass and wait for the G5. Sorry, just had to throw that out there...

I know the '57 has a 512K L2, but is the 2M L3 on-chip? I just don't know. Do we know the FSB speed? I thought 1.25 GHz implied 167MHz, and 1.3(3) implied 200MHz? What multipliers are possible? I guess maybe I'm thinking wrong, as 167MHz/1.25GHz is 7.5x, and 167MHz/1.33GHz is 8.0x.

In any case, going from 1.0GHz (what is it, a 7447?) to 1.25GHz (7457) should be more than a 25% "speed increase", yes?
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #487 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
I know the '57 has a 512K L2, but is the 2M L3 on-chip? I just don't know. Do we know the FSB speed? I thought 1.25 GHz implied 167MHz, and 1.3(3) implied 200MHz? What multipliers are possible? I guess maybe I'm thinking wrong, as 167MHz/1.25GHz is 7.5x, and 167MHz/1.33GHz is 8.0x.

In any case, going from 1.0GHz (what is it, a 7447?) to 1.25GHz (7457) should be more than a 25% "speed increase", yes?


I saw it on Motos semiconductor site. It says UP TO 2 MB L3 cache. It would sure be nice if Apple decided to use it. I think the FSB would be 200 Mhz. And I am going from a 667 TiBook with 16MB video Ram, so more than 2x the speed and 4x the video power, not to mention 2 MB of L3 cache, throw in an 80GB HD, and I'm gettin me a Powerbook
post #488 of 559
i would rather have a G4 with a longer battery life, less heat and smaller size than a G5 PB.

even if you underclock a G5 to 1GHz, the die shrink on it is still .13 microns, same as the 7457, but the G5 has about 5 times as many transistors, so there's no way in hell a current G5 will be able to match the space/heat/battery performance of the 7457. So UNLESS IBM secretly managed to make .09 micron G5 chips in quantity, I don't see a G5 PB coming next week and I don't really want one.

That said, I wouldn't completely rule out a G5 PB. Around this time last year people were saying that it was impossible for the PB to get a sloth loading superdrive because they were too big but Apple did it anyways.
post #489 of 559
AI has an update on new PBs in Paris: New PBs in Paris

I hope this is a decent update, that the PBs are available before the end of the month, that they use a 200 MHz system bus, DDR400 memory, 2MB L3 cache (external to die), and have 2x DVD-R. I also fervently hope the 15 has a 15.4" display.
post #490 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by filmmaker2002
I saw it on Motos semiconductor site. It says UP TO 2 MB L3 cache. It would sure be nice if Apple decided to use it. I think the FSB would be 200 Mhz. And I am going from a 667 TiBook with 16MB video Ram, so more than 2x the speed and 4x the video power, not to mention 2 MB of L3 cache, throw in an 80GB HD, and I'm gettin me a Powerbook

I'm coming from a 400MHz G3 Pismo! The reason I compared with the 1GHz G4 is that is what is available right now, and if nothing comes next week, what I'll end up with --- I have a standing quote that is quite good, and will remain very attractive with speed bumped 'books. Since I'm not paying for it, of course I will get the faster machine.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #491 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by filmmaker2002
Uh...that's for a G5 running at 1.8 Ghz. It is a FACT that a G5 running at 1.2 Ghz dissipates = or less heat than a 7455 G4 (ya know...the one's CURRENTLY in that 1" frame) and also uses less power.

Well I'm not so sure. Part of that heat sink in the picture is for the chip power supply and the faster FSB has to eat up some power along with the DDR memory. Not sure what it all adds up to power wise. Also not sure how the current PB chip is tweaked for low power usage. (as in are the chips throttling dynamically when in use)
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post #492 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by popmetal

even if you underclock a G5 to 1GHz, the die shrink on it is still .13 microns, same as the 7457, but the G5 has about 5 times as many transistors, so there's no way in hell a current G5 will be able to match the

Sorry, but you are utterly wrong. Actually, the 7457 has 58 mio transistors, the 970 "only" 52 mio.
Moto specs (see page 10).
IBM press release.
post #493 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
AI has an update on new PBs in Paris: New PBs in Paris

I hope this is a decent update, that the PBs are available before the end of the month, that they use a 200 MHz system bus, DDR400 memory, 2MB L3 cache (external to die), and have 2x DVD-R. I also fervently hope the 15 has a 15.4" display.

That's good news - AI has a decent track record now, and they say it is "positively confirmed."

On the other hand, I wonder if this is the kind of update that would make it to a Stevenote. Yeah, it's a different enclosure, but it's just filling out the line in such a way that I would have thought it would simply be a press release.
post #494 of 559
There are numerous reasons why Apple has staggered the release of G5 systems, heat generation, battery life and heat sink size just arent in the picture.

IBM claims that a 1.2-1.3 Gig G5 generates less heat and eats less power than a 1 Gig G4. Putting one of these chips if IBM makes them into the PB is possible. You can not for one minute truly believe that in the 3 years or so that IBM and Apple have been working at developing the G5 that they could only come up with a tower design??? Its not like Apple has 3 employees that can only work 1 project at a time.

Also who has seen the inside of a 1.6, 1.8 and dual 2 G5. from the pictures they look very similar with the exception of a missing processor on the single CPU units. In todays economic climate it is idiotic from a manufacturing standpoint to make 3 separate systems when any possible cost savings individually can be increased by the increased volumes of a single design being used in more than one place. I bet that the heat sinks were designed for worst case and used throughout the product line to save money and make assembly more efficient and less error prone.
post #495 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
Well I'm not so sure. Part of that heat sink in the picture is for the chip power supply and the faster FSB has to eat up some power along with the DDR memory. Not sure what it all adds up to power wise. Also not sure how the current PB chip is tweaked for low power usage. (as in are the chips throttling dynamically when in use)

At the same overall power consumption, any processor would need equivalent power supply; that's not unique to the 970. Also, if the processor were clocked down to 1.2 GHz (say), then the FSB would be down to a max of 600 MHz, and if they wanted to they could use 3:1 ratio and bring it down to 400 MHz. Isn't the slow bus on the G4 a source of endless complaining anyway? What kind of FSB do the Centrino machines use?

It remains possible that the current G5 infrastructure is not ready for a laptop, but I'm still not convinced that we've seen any hard evidence of it. Nonetheless, I expect we'll be seeing 7457-based PowerBooks next week.
post #496 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
AI has an update on new PBs in Paris: New PBs in Paris

I hope this is a decent update, that the PBs are available before the end of the month, that they use a 200 MHz system bus, DDR400 memory, 2MB L3 cache (external to die), and have 2x DVD-R. I also fervently hope the 15 has a 15.4" display.

AI Article, I like this one:

To levitate some concerns -- during the last week of August -- Apple told some of its select retail partners to expect new PowerBooks in early to mid September.


...hmm, levitating the concerns as in making them higher??
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #497 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
On the other hand, I wonder if this is the kind of update that would make it to a Stevenote. Yeah, it's a different enclosure, but it's just filling out the line in such a way that I would have thought it would simply be a press release.

Like the Key Lime iBooks (Paris 2000)?
post #498 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
Like the Key Lime iBooks (Paris 2000)?

Yeah, that was a strange moment... the publics' enthusiasm was... mixed.
post #499 of 559
hey guys, i'm new here so this may be a dumb question.

I don't want to give anyone a heart attack, but I would really like to know why apple laptops have remained at the 1 GHz level.
My cousin was just in the market for a laptop and I took her to the apple store to show her the 12 inch I plan to buy after paris expo. She thought the wwhole place was beautiful and loved the powerbook designs. However she couldn't bring herself to buy a $1600 powerbook with only 867mhz when a $950 compaq has 2GHz.
Personally, I'm willing to pay because i value more then just haphazard computing power. I've just had it with the plastic unreliability of my Pc computers.
ANyway, back to my question. This will be my first Apple and I am by no stretch particularly computer wise, but I just don't understand what the limitations are. Apple deserves to be at the top of the heap especially for what they charge!.
post #500 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by cris84
I don't want to give anyone a heart attack, but I would really like to know why apple laptops have remained at the 1 GHz level.

The basic answer is that Apple's CPU suppliers haven't been able to do any better. The PowerPC chips that have surpassed 1 GHz have been too hot for a notebook, in Apple's and most others' opinions.

You and most of us appreciate the other things that make a Mac worth having, despite the fact that it might not be quite as fast as a comparably priced or cheaper windoze PC. Most people can't or don't appreciate those things and therefore follow the crowd and settle for what I consider to be a less satisfying computer experience. I won't argue that one is less productive on a windoze PC, just that I think Macs are better for many reasons, and worth the extra money.

Too bad you can't convince your cousin.
post #501 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by cris84
hey guys, i'm new here so this may be a dumb question.

I don't want to give anyone a heart attack, but I would really like to know why apple laptops have remained at the 1 GHz level.
My cousin was just in the market for a laptop and I took her to the apple store to show her the 12 inch I plan to buy after paris expo. She thought the wwhole place was beautiful and loved the powerbook designs. However she couldn't bring herself to buy a $1600 powerbook with only 867mhz when a $950 compaq has 2GHz.
Personally, I'm willing to pay because i value more then just haphazard computing power. I've just had it with the plastic unreliability of my Pc computers.
ANyway, back to my question. This will be my first Apple and I am by no stretch particularly computer wise, but I just don't understand what the limitations are. Apple deserves to be at the top of the heap especially for what they charge!.

Simple: The value of the computer is determined by a lot more than the speed of the CPU clock.

Does the Compaq have anywhere near the fit and finish, ruggedness, features, ease of use, portability, screen or keyboard quality? Mac portables can easily last for years and years (I know one that turned 11 last spring, and it still works). Finally, when she decides to sell it, Macs hold their value much better than PCs do. A friend of mine is looking at buying a three year old PowerBook for $600.

Also, I daresay that OS X uses the hardware more efficiently than Windows does, and unlike Windows it's gotten faster with each release.
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post #502 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by cris84
hey guys, i'm new here so this may be a dumb question.

I don't want to give anyone a heart attack, but I would really like to know why apple laptops have remained at the 1 GHz level.
My cousin was just in the market for a laptop and I took her to the apple store to show her the 12 inch I plan to buy after paris expo. She thought the wwhole place was beautiful and loved the powerbook designs. However she couldn't bring herself to buy a $1600 powerbook with only 867mhz when a $950 compaq has 2GHz.
Personally, I'm willing to pay because i value more then just haphazard computing power. I've just had it with the plastic unreliability of my Pc computers.
ANyway, back to my question. This will be my first Apple and I am by no stretch particularly computer wise, but I just don't understand what the limitations are. Apple deserves to be at the top of the heap especially for what they charge!.

What does she plan on doing with it? Don't need 2GHz to type, surf and send.
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #503 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Bigc
AI Article, I like this one:

To levitate some concerns -- during the last week of August -- Apple told some of its select retail partners to expect new PowerBooks in early to mid September.


...hmm, levitating the concerns as in making them higher??

hehe... good one, albeit they obviously meant "alleviate", not "levitate". Spell checkers do run wild at times.

Ok, back on topic. I sold my Ti400 over a month ago now. I am typing this on a very old and poky (as fas as OS X is concerned) graphite iBook SE 466. I am on the market for a new 15" PowerBook and I do hope it debuts next week. Since my former PB was a 400mhz G4, I am 100% sure whatever Apple brings will be more than adequate for my needs, whether it sports a 1.2 G4 or G5.
post #504 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill M
hehe... good one, albeit they obviously meant "alleviate", not "levitate". Spell checkers do run wild at times.

Ok, back on topic. I sold my Ti400 over a month ago now. I am typing this on a very old and poky (as fas as OS X is concerned) graphite iBook SE 466. I am on the market for a new 15" PowerBook and I do hope it debuts next week. Since my former PB was a 400mhz G4, I am 100% sure whatever Apple brings will be more than adequate for my needs, whether it sports a 1.2 G4 or G5.

I agree, I'm going to upgrade from a PB500.

(they haven't changed the text yet and I also assume they meant alleviate; although levitate does add much more to the PB upgrade confusion)
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post #505 of 559
I've been...ok well I've been trying to keep up with this thread. Is the general consensus that the powerbooks will be here next tuesday. Or should I say paris keynote as there have been too many next tuesdays
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post #506 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
Like the Key Lime iBooks (Paris 2000)?

Ooh, light green and pink PowerBooks! That's the way to go.

I know he used to always intro products at keynotes, but that's changed in the past 2 years or so. Now, speed bumps are almost never announced at keynotes. This PB is borderline, because it's only kind of a new product. So who knows, especially because this keynote isn't as widely seen (I'm guess there'll be no live stream).
post #507 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I know he used to always intro products at keynotes, but that's changed in the past 2 years or so. Now, speed bumps are almost never announced at keynotes. This PB is borderline, because it's only kind of a new product. So who knows, especially because this keynote isn't as widely seen (I'm guess there'll be no live stream).

I think Apple, like me, considers the 15-inch AlBook a new product. It's a new case, a new motherboard architecture and (God willing) a new (G4) processor. This "second-generation" aluminum case might sport some design refinements based on feedback from the 12/17. I'd agree that the 12 and 17 alone, if they are just speed bumps, would be a quiet release. There are the rumors, though, of a more substantially revised (thinner) 12 as well.

Somehow I have to try to keep my expectations in check so I'm not horribly disappointed next week...
post #508 of 559
I think next week is going to be just swell. I can't wait.
post #509 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
I think next week is going to be just swell. I can't wait.

Agreed
post #510 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
I think next week is going to be just swell. I can't wait.

With support from pscates I know they HAVE to come!
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post #511 of 559
Speaking of Paris, am I correct in my figuring that 10 a.m. September 16 in Paris is 4 a.m. September 16 on the east coast of the US? Am I going to wake up to new PowerBooks?
post #512 of 559
Well all I can say is that it'll be nice to watch the updates at a civilised hour for once. Man, you guys in the States sleep on the wrong side of the clock!!!

Will be good if some of the sites have people over at Paris keeping their sites live updated. I can watch what is announced at 6pm....while I'm having dinner cooked!!

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post #513 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by BrunoBruin
Speaking of Paris, am I correct in my figuring that 10 a.m. September 16 in Paris is 4 a.m. September 16 on the east coast of the US? Am I going to wake up to new PowerBooks?

You are correct, 04:00 EDT. That makes my big old c-band satellite dish pretty much useless this time around, as a live keynote feed to America would be overkill so early in the morning. I thought Jobs keynote was to be scheduled during the late afternoon hours, Paris time, in order to accommodate a larger live TV audience this side of the pond.

Either way, I still have high hopes for a totally new 15.x" PowerBook G'something.
8)
post #514 of 559
Yeah, I'd like to get a definite (confirmed? ) set-up on the time thing. Not that I'll be waking my butt up or anything, but I figured if I got up around 4am or so to go pee, I might wake the ol' iMac up and hit a couple of sites to see what's happening.



Part of me, however, kinda digs the idea of staying "in the dark" and waking at my normal time and opening a new window in Safari (Apple is set as my default homepage), covering my eyes and slowly peeking through my fingers a little at a time to see what has taken place overnight.



I think I might do it that way! Then spend all day at work reading about it, looking at the photos, discussing it here, struggling with "do I break out the plastic or continue my tradition of not buying a Mac until I've fully saved for it upfront?", etc.

post #515 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
Sorry, but you are utterly wrong. Actually, the 7457 has 58 mio transistors, the 970 "only" 52 mio.
Moto specs (see page 10).
IBM press release.

My bad.

In that case I take back what I said about not wanting a G5 PowerBook yet. In light of what you and TAZ said, 1 GHz G5 PB would be better. I doubt Apple would do it though. They are more likely to milk the G4.
post #516 of 559
How long is it supposed to be? I'll get up for it and watch it...have my dad's credit card in hand and refreshing apple.com/store and whatever site is giving a play by play update of what is going on (anyone know if any site is doing this?)
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post #517 of 559
It's gonna be 1AM[edit] here on the west coast when the keynote starts. If new PowerBooks are announced at the keynote, are they likely to be available at store.apple.com soon after Steve lets the rat out of the hat, or will Apple update store.apple.com the morning after, around 5am Pacific time, as they usually do?

I really need to sign up for 1-click shopping.
post #518 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by popmetal
It's gonna be 1PM here on the west coast when the keynote starts.

Wouldn't it be 1AM PST?

post #519 of 559
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Part of me, however, kinda digs the idea of staying "in the dark" and waking at my normal time and opening a new window in Safari (Apple is set as my default homepage), covering my eyes and slowly peeking through my fingers a little at a time to see what has taken place overnight.

One must use caution in such cases. I did that with Tokyo one year and almost suffered a coronary when apple.com revealed the Flower Power iMac.
post #520 of 559
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