Evolution of ibook will be a tablet

No, the iBook won't become a tablet - tablets aren't selling.

The eMac is still a regular computer - nothing special about it.

there will be a tablet if they find a use for it that they discovered. or if they improved it so it's more useable.

i cite the ipod as an example of apple blowing all existing mp3 players out of the sky when we thought mp3 players were as good as they'll ever get

?? MP3 players were selling - Apple just made a better one and entered a profitable market.



I don't think so. Bad sales numbers of tablets and PDAs seem to indicate that people don't like to write on their computers with a pen.

The Tablet PC tried to create a need - not fill one.



Education is a niche market? They don't use special equipment. The eMac is still a regular computer and the success of the eMac is not because it does something better than other Macs. The reason for it's success is that it's cheap.

You're comparing two very different things.

SJ said Apple would not release a tablet--- a capsule perhaps.

Hehe. (and capsule -> pod)

Oh they will, will they? They won't be letting any type of computer out they're doors without a keyboard. Period. Maybe one of those flip-screens, but not a true tablet.

Frankly, I don't see the appeal.

I think just like the iPod, Apple could release a better tablet.

It would be handy to have one, especially while watching a movie when you re in a cramped space. Use it as a notepad. Who really needs hand recognition that bad? It will get better as time goes on, as long as people work on it, but for now I think that it would better for taking notes in class, get rid of all that paper and those loud typing sounds. Hey, if someone needed your notes, they don't have to 'borrow' yours, because you will never, ever, get them back: all you do is just send them a jpeg of your notes.

Now that would be the life.

(apply to business meetings, huge-sized palm-pilot, and just good'ol portable, yet flexible, computing.)

OH WHOA--we are no where to take keyboards away from computers. So who ever thought of that idea is a dill-hole, but at least they are trying to pave a way, too bad that way has many cliffs and active volcanoes between you and successful accomplishment. A true tablet that is useble today would have some sort of keyboard fold out.

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS SONY APPLE COULD ALSO DO IT
make it a tablet,wireless, video, etc
personnel entertainment center whoooaaaahhhh

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techrev...-pegux50_x.htm

I would like the iPod to branch off into this, melded with a palm/macoslite device.

heh, kind of funny that, I was >.< this close to getting a rio something er other, or a nomad(256 megs or something)

but I kept saying to myself, sooner or later someone will release something in the gb range that isn't twice the size of a cd player.

what I'm consistenly amazed with is how small HDs are getting, and flash memory too, didn't someone recently created a 4 gig flash card? of course it will probably cost a fortune now, but still, 5-10 years down the line high capacity media players will have the capability to be sooo damn tiny.

We'll probably have a different music compression format five years from now.

Tablet PC's not selling? Where's the proof in that, every manufacture I know of is reporting record sells for this so called niche machines. Acer is coming out with two more models just to keep up with demand. Pen computing should of been the industry norm for every notebook by now. I can't believe I lived this long without my HP 1000. The fact that Apple has not come out with their own makes them more DELL like and less innovative. Sit back and see what the market is like in a year or two, there just might not be any room.

In Europe the sales dropped 31% last quarter, and that's compared to a not so hot quarter before that.

The concept of a tablet PC in and of itself is neat, however, the technology to make them happen efficiently isnt there right now. There is also the problem of definitions. What exactly do we want a tablet to do? Answering that question will define the size, shape, power requirements. None of these questions are truly answered right now, which is why each tablet is nothing more than a bastardized laptop.

This device obviously isn't perfect and $700 is pretty steep...though within reason considering what it can do.

I think the pda at least proved that that size device will sell. People will carry them around as long as they are getting the functionality that they want. I think pda's are dropping off because the form hasn't evolved fast enough to make it so compelling once you get a modern cell phone.

This device is actually smaller than a pda and I don't know about its quality of experience, but I can see that it is inching closer to the killer "experience" (not killer app) that will make portable video/WiFi worth buying. That is all we are waiting for anyway.

As for the Tablet...I have always wanted the option for keyboard-free computing, and I think it can be done in a compelling way even now, but I am resigned with the fact that the general public and geeks alike will not accept it yet....like some of the myopic, keyboard-centric folks on this board. Oh well.

the question was never asked.

The eMac was custom built for the Los Angeles Unified School District. That is hardly a niche market.

I thought I had purged these fora of their errant tablet talk? hahaha...

Why does every tablet maker see the need to bodge on a keyboard of some type? I'll tell ya, because the keyboard is a superior imput system, both for text and for navigation. The tablet is partly the dream of non-typists , but there aren't very many of those around any more, if you are a non-typist, SHAME on YOU!!! I used to hunt and peck quite a bit, but over the years I've pretty much learned to touch type after my own style, I still mostly use my index and middle fingers, and don't hold my hands tot he right position, but I get out 50-60wpm, much faster than anyone can write.

IF there were to be a tablet, it would be a 12" PB derivative, NOT an iBook, and it would have a flip around screen with a keyboard, NOT a pure tablet because basically keyboards are indispensable and Apple knows it. They could make an Xwide type subnote (like the Sony picturebooks) that doesn't sacrifice the keyboard size/layout, just re-cuts the screen and footprint to fit that dimension. Then double hinge the screen so that it converts to tablet mode when you want. Done, a tablet.

But that still has problems. I guarantee you that most of the tablets sold end up being used with their keyboards, and/or in laptop mode most all of the time.

Why? tablets ARE NOT convenient. Every held a two pound note pad and tried to write on it while standing? Can't do it for long, you have to sit down. The moment you sit, a keyboard is a better choice. The tablet is only good when you don't have to free hands because you have to stand and prop up the machine. But, make it too big and it's awkward to write on, make it too small and it's awkward both to read from and to write on.

If you just want a cheapy tablet for taking notes and stuff, then it has to be no bigger than a DVD jewel case/trade paperback, but that is NOT a iBook replacement, just a supplement to computing for people that need to work standing up/on the go -- journos, engineers in labs, doctors, some (few) students.

Nevoz, I'm with you. I have a HP T1000 and I can't believe I hadn't jumped into a tablet years ago. I find it to be an extremely useful tool, from home surfing, to walking around at work taking notes. I especially enjoy going down to the lake and reading my e-mails or PDF's. The nay sayers say that Apple doesn't need a tablet because Apple doesn't have a tablet. The second Apple has one the tone will shift in here. Take my word for it though, they are very cool and very use full! 8)

A bluetooth keyboard and mouse would make an interesting combination with a tablet type system.

I will run right out and by a tablet as soon as the technology gets high enough. I want a tablet that is about the same thickness and weight as the LCD part of my Titanium Powerbook (and it would have to be about as powerful). A pure tablet that I would use is a just a little beyond our manufacturing capabilities.

Now what would be something very interesting would be a tethered tablet. Put the CPU, RAM, battery etc., into walkman sized device you can wear on your belt, and have a cord run to the tablet. That way you could make the tablet part very thin and light.

Another possibility would be dockable tablet. This device would normally be used as the screen of your powerbook, but would detachable. You use airport extreme to communicate with the dock when the tablet is detached. This way the tablet part would only need a battery, video and airport cards -- the drives CPU, memory, and such would remain in the dock. It might not have the snappiest response time, but I think that 54Mbps would be enough bandwidth to get the job done.

Tablets offer NO advantage for surfing. A subnote with touch screen would offer more utility in that regard, the only advantage being that you can touch the screen to navigate. But even that is not neccessarily an advantage -- it will put more wear and tear on the screen, and most web UI's are not suited to it when it comes to scrolling, though hypertext linking seems natural with it.

A tablet for taking notes and making drawings could be possible, but it wouldn't replace a notebook, and it owuld be a lot smaller than an iBook if you wanted to use it comfortably. Making it that small would then make web browsing more of a chore than it needs to be.

Tablets are doing poorly for a reason.

This is based off of you currently having one, no doubt.

I most likely have both written and typed a LOT more notes and papers than most people, hell I kill a few minutes in here by typing a few hundred words at a time, so go figure. When it comes to input, by typing and writing, I AM AN EXPERT. I am an expert because I'm the type of customer who does a LOT of reading and writing each and every day, and among many things knows a little bit about the print industry. I'll tell you what works.

I didn't say a tablet wouldn't work, just that "a tablet without a keyboard that replaces the iBook" would not work.

I'll tell you why, again.

Problem NUMBER 1: TOO big, TOO small. The whole point of a tablet is to have a computer you can write on and navigate on the go, standing, etc etc... You still have to use two hands -- one to hold it and the other to write on it or navigate. JUST LIKE A GOOD OLD PAPER NOTEPAD!

Get the point yet?

Probably not, so I'll explain. Ever held a spiral bound that weighs 2-5lbs ??? You won't find one that weighs that much, mebbe 2, certainly not 5. Anyway, no one I know will hold a letter size spiral aloft and write on it with one hand while standing for any length of time, not write, not draw, mebbe read, but that's at. Why do you think lab note pads are about a half a letter size page, mebbe 6X9 at the largest? Anything bigger is too awkward to use in any position but sitting with the pad either in your lap or on your desk. And these pads are considerably lighter than the 2-5lbs which anything in the 10-15" diagnal range would weigh.

Nope, no sir. A format for what you want exists: A5

A5 paper has a footprint just less than half the size of a letter size sheet, or exactly half of A4. large, but pocketable (lab coats at least), trade paperbacks (not mass-market) and DVD jewel cases are about that size. The format is tested by over a century of use and well established in the printing industry as the max/min comfortable size for portable reading and writing. If you want to make a good tablet to read and write notes/make sketches, then human anatomy pretty much forces you to conform to that size.

A tablet MUST be smaller than a notebook computer, or the tablet feature is a wash.

Which leads us to problem number 2:

TOO big, TOO small.

Make it too small and web pages and UI elements become a royal pain in the ass. Technology will fix this problem to a degree, but viewing web pages will always be more comfortable on a bigger screen. Make the screen much bigger than A5 and you can see problem 1 again.

So, now that you've had a little more time to absorb my wisdom, you'll realize that before a tablet can succeed it needs to be clearly targetted into an establish form factor for particular uses. "Web pads" will have a great deal of difficulty as "notepads" and vice versa. The notebook, OTOH, manages to do both rather well, and so continues to increase in popularity.

In the book "Apple Confidential" Steve Jobs is quoted as saying, at one point, "imagine a Mac the size of a book". He meant a small, fully-functional computer. Of course, this was before the Mac Portable. The PowerBook is usually thought of as the realization of this vision, but it's much larger than most books.

SJ didn't like the Newton, not because of its size, but because it was running a nonstandard OS with nonstandard applications. Similarly today, when you see today's PDAs, they have "dozens of applications" - they are all proprietary designs. When we get a true computer - "a Mac the size of a book" - things will be completely different. It won't be a crippled PDA; it won't be a bulky tablet; it will be a truly compact computer.

"Mac the size of a book" doesn't have anything to do with tablets. Arguably, the connotation of "book" suggests a laptop configuration moreso than a tablet. The current marketting of the 12" PB as the worlds smallest full-featured laptop tells you where jobs wants to take the small computer -- ie, only so small as it can be a self contained yet fully featured computer. My PB is smaller than plenty of the books sitting next to me on a shelf right now.

Tablets suck.....oversized pocketpc....

Ah, Matsu...I think we've worked out some compelling form-factors for a subnotebook/tablet over the years, but you continue to tell people who don't want/need to type that they are wrong and you are right.

I like your "Too big, too small" argument, but it also reflects the mirror-image argument (oh, so yin and yang!).

For some people and some functions...
The 12"PB is too big.
The pda is too small.

How many people and functions does "some" mean and is it a large enough market....that is the question. I think it is large enough if done well. But many here, like you seem to "know" it isn't large enought, no matter what. Until it is tried (and no, the current tablets are not a good "try"), we won't really know...that's called technological development, but to crusade against tablets because you are trying to outmarket Steve Jobs...not so useful.

Displays need to be better in bright daylight, for tablets to take off.

Tablets imply mobility. Mobility includes outdoor daytime use. My iBook's screen, in daylight, looks like i'm reading a magazine wearing a welder's mask. Add to that the fact that people might want to actually use sunglasses while they are outside using their tablets and you come to realize that screens need to be much, much better.

If a screen, in daylight, can't be as solid (no pressure wake when touched or drawn on) and bright as a paper magazine, then we will forever be off in the shadows, with semi-mobility, whether browsing online or sketching on a tablet.

and 2 weeks ago-

Enough proof? I consider myself a techno whore, a electronic toy addict buying the latest and I have no wants, needs or desires for a tablet pc. The sony little cleo thing linked above- why? It's too damn small for anything serious, I'm not going to type a report or novel on that thing, maybe just emails and memos-for $700? LOL, ah no. These are toys, some will buy most will just look in awe and say cool, then walk to the next aisle.

But I am right.


Not trying to outsmart Steve Jobs at all, I suspect we're more of the same mind on this, than on any thing else, like, say, price?

Jobs tends to look for form factors that will make an item most useful, not just "cool" If you want a tablet that will be useful, then A5 is the form factor you're looking for. Web page/UI elements and other small screen display problems can be solved in software using QE to size/resize event he most obstinate web pages, the OS itself coud load a "thin" UI theme, not a thin OS, just a UI theme that takes less space on a device where it's already at a premium. Expose could take care of the rest of the real-estate premium so that an "A5"ish 1024x768 device approached legibility!

Tablets don't have to be expensive toys, just none made so far, and none typically proposed here, except those suggest by moi of course.

The A5 size is fine with me, a little smaller and hopefully thinner than the Newton.

It should have a USB port for an external keyboard, firewire port for external drives, and possibly a video port for a monitor. Ethernet? (My Newton has Ethernet.) A docking bay?

Most importantly, it must run a standard OS and run standard applications. Mac OS X on a G3 sounds like the best combination.

ALL of the existing tablets are too big and WAY too expensive.

BTW, the HP/Compaq machine mentioned earlier is a TC1000, not a T1000.

Agreed!