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Teachers-Where is the diversity?

post #1 of 24
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Quote:
WASHINGTON, Aug. 27 Two out of 10 teachers are men, the lowest figure in 40 years, a survey by the National Education Association has found. One in 10 teachers is a minority group member, another sign that teachers have far less diversity than their students.

About half of students are male, and almost 40 percent are from minorities, government figures show. The lopsided representation of whites and women in teaching is troubling, the president of the union, Reg Weaver, said, because it denies students a range of role models.

So we have an entire teaching corps that is basically white women. If it were only related to women and toleration of a certain salary wouldn't the make up of teachers still be women but at least more diverse in terms of the ethnic makeup?

90% white and 80% women, I'm sure that if you reversed the gender and called it a fire or police department, two jobs that also don't pay enough comparable to what they do, we would have lawsuits, consent decrees and charges of sexism and racism.

Why do you think that is not the case here?

Nick

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post #2 of 24
You need relatively lot of education for a job that does not allow you to make the career. Once you are a teacher, you are a teacher and stay there. Besides you'll have to spend your days with kids. And your income is not likely to be very high (unless you start charging the kids for higher votes). So, wait, why don't men want to study for years to then spend their time in an environment full of kids or adolescents?

I don't interpret "One in 10 teachers is a minority group member" as 90 % being white, but containing also latins and all the white minorities. That is all the non-US born people with relatively fair skin color.
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post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
You need relatively lot of education for a job that does not allow you to make the career. Once you are a teacher, you are a teacher and stay there. Besides you'll have to spend your days with kids.

and what exactly, is wrong with spending your day with children?

all the teachers i know get gratification, from the sense that they might be creating careers, maybe at their own expense. not everybody does everything for money.
post #4 of 24
nothing, 'karate. that isn't just one of the things that i think (many) males put high on their preferences. i could say similar from other professions too, like doctors studying years after years after years only to have sick people around, and not even interestingly sick but with elderly and their loneliness problems ... it was only to provocate the most chauvinists here.
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post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
Gia, in order to avoid confusion of the nature you are mentioning they often have the words (not of hispanic origin) next to white to insure that although they are anglo, they get to claim their heritage.

That 90% white is anglo and of a European nature.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
nothing, 'karate. that isn't just one of the things that i think (many) males put high on their preferences. i could say similar from other professions too, like doctors studying years after years after years only to have sick people around, and not even interestingly sick but with elderly and their loneliness problems ... it was only to provocate the most chauvinists here.

so anyone who is around children and sick people is wasting their time?
post #7 of 24
(Nope, but if you have studied e.g. a wide selection of diseases can you get the satisfaction of seeing always only the simple ones, that you studied in your first year of medicine?? I wouldn't).



I don't know how the university teachers /profs are in US but in Europe .. I've studied in 3 countries, and in all 3 countries I can remember having had 3 female teachers (all for languages). None in any technical subject. None in arts. No non-European teachers. All male, and in Italy and UK I did not frequent even ONE lesson held by a female professor / teacher. Where is the diversity there then?
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post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
So we have an entire teaching corps that is basically white women.

I lost a teaching job due to affirmative action a few years ago, right after getting my degree. The faculty voted for me, but the Dean and EEO person vetoed it because I was a white male. One of the faculty on the search committee sent me the e-mail from the Dean explicitly stating this. Who got the job? A white woman.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I lost a teaching job due to affirmative action a few years ago, right after getting my degree. The faculty voted for me, but the Dean and EEO person vetoed it because I was a white male. One of the faculty on the search committee sent me the e-mail from the Dean explicitly stating this. Who got the job? A white woman.

Man, that's sucks. This is totaly insane. Anyway i expect that you are happy with your current job, and don't regret to have lost this one.

In France many teachers are women too, but not with the same number ratio ( i would say 70 % women, 30 % man). However it's true to say that this job is attractive for woman for various reasons :
- lot of holidays in france, and can spend them with their kids
- no risk of unemployement
- not so bad fees, especially for the number of hours they have to do.
- no competition
There is also counterparts :
- not so good fees
- lack of respect of both the parents and the childs
- no evolution, or very little one
post #10 of 24
Are you guys going to start next a thread about why there are so many female nurses too? That's discriminating too...
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post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Why do you think that is not the case here?

As the prestige leaves, so do the men and the dollars. What percentage of college professors are white males?
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post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
Are you guys going to start next a thread about why there are so many female nurses too? That's discriminating too...

You are welcome to do so.

In my view, teaching is the perfect WASP-y second job. I have met many teachers who have their husband work earning two to three times more than they do. The wives work to afford the two Mercedes payments, the vacations to exotic places (or Europe ), etc. They can take time off for child bearing if they need it. It has, as Powerdoc mentioned, quite a few protections vs. salary. (I personally believe most women will choose about 20% less salary for a lot more security.) It also has lots of holidays off with the children and family.

In fact most often I have seen teachers take exceptionally long vacations with their management type husbands. They will typically go visit a relative for about a month, then travel someplace with the husband when he can get his vacation time.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 24
Pay teachers a reasonable salary and you'll find more men going for it.

 

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post #14 of 24
The university teachers get better salary, and they can 'go somewhere' (be in a more respected university, publish researches etc) and surprisingly 90 % of them are men.
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post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
The university teachers get better salary, and they can 'go somewhere' (be in a more respected university, publish researches etc) and surprisingly 90 % of them are men.

90%? Try 70%, according to this link from a feminist web site. And that's all professors - according to that same link, when you look at younger professors, women are at least 40% of professors, and women currently earn 40% of doctorates in the US. And those data are from 10 years ago.
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
Pay teachers a reasonable salary and you'll find more men going for it.

You don't think there are any cultural traits practiced by those within teaching that keep men out?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
90%? Try 70%, according to this link from a feminist web site. And that's all professors - according to that same link, when you look at younger professors, women are at least 40% of professors, and women currently earn 40% of doctorates in the US. And those data are from 10 years ago.

I said already before what I've seen in 4 universities where I studied in 3 countries together: in ONE of them I had THREE female teachers / professors. All were in languages (no technical subjects). In that university it looked it was about 80-85% male (teachers, also 80-90% male students).

The other 3 universities: I know there were some female professors too, but I NEVER have had any courses they were teaching (or tutoring etc).

So my rough estimate "90%" was of my own university experiences: 3 professors out of 30 ?? in one university = 10 % female. 0 professors out of 60-70 in 3 universities = 0 % (Italy, UK, Spain).


I assume this is partly because it was always in more technical materials (e.g. engineering). I am sure even in those universities in the more 'human' materials etc, less technical subjects there are more female professors and teachers. So if I had studied cultural history, education or languages as my main subject, I am quite sure I would have seen female profs too.
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post #18 of 24
I am an Education student at my University. Currently I am doing my student teaching in an inner city middle school, where diversity is everywhere. My mentor teacher is a black male, there are also others. In addition, there are white male teachers, black female teachers and the most common white female. As far as students there are black, white, and hispanic. So for one to make such a blanket statement is incorrect.
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post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You don't think there are any cultural traits practiced by those within teaching that keep men out?

Nick

No, I just think there are a lot more female liberal arts majors. Teaching requires very little education, very little knowledge, and gives you summers off to take care of your kids.

Yes, teaching has been traditionally female. That would change if they paid a good enough salary. You will have men lining up for miles if teachers started at 60k and had the potential to earn 150k in fifteen years.

 

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post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by DanMacMan
I am an Education student at my University. Currently I am doing my student teaching in an inner city middle school, where diversity is everywhere. My mentor teacher is a black male, there are also others. In addition, there are white male teachers, black female teachers and the most common white female. As far as students there are black, white, and hispanic. So for one to make such a blanket statement is incorrect.

Dan,

I'm glad there is ton of diversity where you work. There is likewise tons where I work and live. (Southern California)

That doesn't mean it is that way everywhere. In the "mythical" suburbs there are elementary schools where every teacher is white, female and has been there for practically since the dawn of time. (like 20 years)

It isn't a blanket statement, it is the actual statistics of who is in teaching.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #21 of 24
i know what kind of an arrogant lil' prick i was in high school, and i would not have wanted to teach me back then... and i wasn't the only jerk or head-case in my class, either. plus, i went to an all-boy high school, which stunted me socially (god, i couldn't even talk to a girl until my second semester in college... ugh), but it did cut down on the whole circus atmosphere in the classroom. i can only imagine the nightmare of having to walk into especially bad classes from time to time to teach.

anyway, if television dramas and evening news has taught me anything (JOKE! well, sorta), it's that teachers need way more power and compensation for the herculean task they take upon themselves, often teaching AND raising a lot of us. and if i may take a moment to speak for all males everywhere (again, JOKE! again, sorta...), women seem to have a want or need or capacity to handle those two tasks better or more often or with less in return than guys do. and it's probably from social constructs that they were brought up with. it takes TIME to break out of these cycles, folks. sometimes many generations.
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post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
In the "mythical" suburbs there are elementary schools where every teacher is white, female and has been there for practically since the dawn of time. (like 20 years)

How do the demographics of a region around a school compare to the demographics of the teachers within the school? I realize a lot of teachers travel, but this comparison could shed some light on the topic.
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post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
How do the demographics of a region around a school compare to the demographics of the teachers within the school? I realize a lot of teachers travel, but this comparison could shed some light on the topic.

I couldn't really shed light on this. Living in Cali my view would be a bit off since no less than 65% of every classroom I have ever been in has been Hispanic children.

We need to ask some folks in the states where they still have white children.

However I have worked at a site for a couple of years where there was exactly one other male teacher besides myself and the staff was literally entirely white women aside from us. I moved to my current school from that school after the budget squeeze made us lose three positions. I was the second lowest on the senority list with 4 years experience at that site so that should give you an idea of how long everyone else was there.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #24 of 24
My son's new teacher is a man. 20 years experience. nice guy.

and, gasp, they PRAY in class and at the school board meetings!
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