Bring back the Newton as Apple PDA - Page 2

[quote]Originally posted by ihxo:
<strong>"Apple has still not made good on the promise they made in early 1998 when they promised a replacement for the Newton in about a year."</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is one of the most misquoted Apple press releases. The <a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1998/feb/27newton.html" target="_blank">document</a> states:
[quote]Apple is committed to affordable mobile computing, pioneered by the eMate, and will be serving this market with Mac OS-based products beginning in 1999.<hr></blockquote>
It does not promise a new Newton. It promises affordable mobile computers running Mac OS in 1999 - the iBook.

I guess you still don't understand ... Newton replacement = something to replace Newton, but not necessary Newton ....

so far they have made anything that could replace emate yet, you may say iBook could replace emate, but the problem is, it's still too big to be a newton replacement !!

Apple could release a 9xx-1000 dollars subnotebook, then I'll say that apple did make a newton replacement.

And trust me the word "newton replacement" is still echoing somewhere in my head. And yes they said nothing about a "newton replacement" in the press release, but those 2 words did come out from steve's mouth.

<a href="http://macweek.macworld.com/2000/10/15/1017rsapple.html" target="_blank">http://macweek.macworld.com/2000/10/15/1017rsapple.html</a>

do you understand why even places like macweek talks about "newton replacement" ? because some important ppl (iCEO) in apple did said that ..

[quote]Originally posted by ihxo:
<strong>I guess you still don't understand ... Newton replacement = something to replace Newton, but not necessary Newton ....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I understand completely that people want something to replace the Newton, and not necessarily something resembling the original. I just dispute the fact Apple ever "promised" such a device.
[quote]so far they have made anything that could replace emate yet, you may say iBook could replace emate, but the problem is, it's still too big to be a newton replacement !!<hr></blockquote>
Very true, but my point was still Apple didn't promise to replace the Newton.
[quote]And yes they said nothing about a "newton replacement" in the press release, but those 2 words did come out from steve's mouth.<hr></blockquote>
Which was the quote I was looking for in my original post.
[quote]do you understand why even places like macweek talks about "newton replacement" ? because some important ppl (iCEO) in apple did said that ..<hr></blockquote>
Well, the article you link to features opinions from people garnered by MacWeek, but I'm still 100% sure Steve Jobs did not ever promise a "Newton replacement".

Don't misunderstand me, I've no objection to people wanting one, or discussing it here, it just annoys me when people say something like "Apple promised us one" without having any evidence of such a promise.

Well, a couple of comments about the Newton....

The NewtonOS was just light years better than either the PalmOS or WinCE. It was just spectacular! I used a Newton at work for 6 months and it literally pained me to have to go back to a Palm IIIx. I can't even begin to tell you how user friendly the NewtonOS is or how intuitive it is. And the hardwriting recognition was just unbelievable!

What Apple really needed was a smaller machine with a smaller price tag on it. Newtons costing $1000 were just a bit too pricy for the average joe. I think Apple actually had MessagePad 3000 prototypes with color screens already made. I know that there's a webiste somewhere with Apple Newton prototypes on it.

The other uniuque thing about the Newton vs. other PDAs is that the Newton was the first device that let me do EVERYTHING on the device. I never felt the need to sync with my desktop. I just carried the Newton everywhere with me for the whole six months and only hooked up it up to my PC to install software. It came with an e-book reader was back in the early 90s and the screen on it was big enought to make it decent for e-book reading. I can't even imagine reading e-books on a Palm and PocketPC screen!

And one last note that I think you'll find amazing.... In 1995, when Windows 95 was released, the NewtonOS won OS of the Year at the Las Vegas CES, beating out Windows 95!

A new Newton should have the follwing features:

1. Color high resolution screen
2. SD and CF
3. Rechargeable
4. Screen larger than a Palm, but smaller than the old Newton
5. Stereo Sound
6. The awesome NewtonOS!

Anyone who is really into PDAs, should spend about a half an hour playing with a Newton and you'll really wonder why this thing was killed by Apple.

I totally agree with the poster above. I mean I can even print/ Fax / get on the internet from newton 5 years ago.
could it get any better ??

but the problem is how do we get apple to listen to us ??

[quote]Originally posted by plazman30:
<strong>Anyone who is really into PDAs, should spend about a half an hour playing with a Newton and you'll really wonder why this thing was killed by Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, I'm thinking they killed it because it ate $400 million in R&D costs, and made less than $60 million in pre-tax profits over the five years of it's fat, heavy life.

Bottom line: There were not enough rich freaks to buy them.

I got mine (an MP120) used, and it still cost me 400 bucks at the time.

The question is: Can Apple offer something a big step up from the Palm/Handspring/WinCe device functionality-wise, in the same price range?

Given Apple's resources, current product direction, and the economy, I'd have to figure no.

[quote]Originally posted by jutus:
<strong>The question is: Can Apple offer something a big step up from the Palm/Handspring/WinCe device functionality-wise, in the same price range?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The price range is from $100 to like $600, that's a freaking big range, but sorry my guess is yes, they can make a PDA at that price range. But just face it, Sony is going to eat Palm and Handspring alive really soon, and Steve think PDA is not the way to go, so it would be best for apple to not make a PDA.

How is that Sony handheld selling these days?

[quote]Originally posted by ihxo:
<strong>The price range is from $100 to like $600, that's a freaking big range, but sorry my guess is yes, they can make a PDA at that price range.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But the real question is can Apple make a PDA in that price range that offers something others do not? I figure the answer is a definite "no". Mac OS-compatibility and great industrial design is not enough.

Compaq is having to offer huge rebates and a low-end model iPaq - once considered the ultimate handheld - because they're not selling.

I thinik one major problem with the Newton is that it was too good. I mean, if you bought a Newton, what use was a laptop? The Newton, as stated above, cost huge amounts of R&D money, and the ones sold ate into the very profitalbe Apple laptop sales.

I also agree about the Newton OS, and I feel that it is still the best OS out there. More intuitive than any other computer, and more integrated. Not only can you email, fax, web browse, spreadsheet, code HTML, program, etc. on it, but applications seamlessly work together like on no other OS that I've used. If I want to, say, email this web page, or fax a spreadsheet, or print via wire or IR, I need only tap the routing button, and tap my choice, enter in address or phone number (from drop down menu or manually) and tap "Mail", or "Fax", or "Print", or "Beam". That's it. So easy!

I wish our "modern" OSes could work that way. If the Newton OS had continuing development, it would be light years ahead of anything else on the market today, instead of only miles.

But, if it cost nearly as much as an iBook (or even Powerbook), it would have to be a choice between the Newton or the 'Book. I haven't even decided if I'll bother syncing up my MP 2100 with my new iBook, as it's done so well as my only computer for 3 years.

...My 200 KB (which would be a lot of memory on the Newton platform).

CaoimhÃ*n

[quote]Originally posted by CaoimhÃ*n:
<strong>Not only can you email, fax, web browse, spreadsheet, code HTML, program, etc. on it, but applications seamlessly work together like on no other OS that I've used.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I won't argue that the Newton had some impressive features, but I'd say there are four of six things in your list I'd absolutely hate to have to do on a Newton, or any other small pen-based device.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
But the real question is can Apple make a PDA in that price range that offers something others do not? I figure the answer is a definite "no". Mac OS-compatibility and great industrial design is not enough.

Compaq is having to offer huge rebates and a low-end model iPaq - once considered the ultimate handheld - because they're not selling.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The problem you are concerning is those PDA doesn't sell, just face it apple could make a palm and put the type of screen they use in newton, and port the HWR to apple's palm, then there you go, a really solid Apple Palm OS PDA, and I challenge anyone that Newton's screen is not better than any palm screen out there, and Newton's HWR is not better and easier.

But the problem is it won't sell, that's the point I was talking about. Sony will still eat Apple's palm alive after eating handspring's and palm's.

there is definitely no interest in a Newton forum here ...

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000069" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000069</a>

Please post there if you have Newton interest.

But make sure you don't make any references to the Newton in Suggestions ... or it'll magically get locked ...

What I think Apple SHOULD do, instead of making a new PDA is make software to ADD to a PDA, to make a Palm, more Newtonlike. I have a Palm IIIx and I like it. My big issue with it is the screen. It's too damn small. I fell the Newton screen was too damn big. Apple would be good to make a "Apple Mobile Connectivity Enhancement Pack" or iAssist and include the following:

1. The Newton HWR for Palm
2. Conduits for MacOS X Mail and Address Book
3. Some other custom apps with conduits for things like TextEdit.
4. Conduits to sync pictures between your Pictures folder in your home directory and a CF/SD card. Same with movies.
5. QuickTime for Palm
6. iTunes for Palm with sync

Sadly, we will never see a new Newton, as much as every person that ever owned a Newton wants one.

Now Apple probably could not make decent money on a handheld device, BUT I see no reason they couldn't sell the NewtonOS to another party outright and let them do what they want with it. In this economy, that would be a good thing for Apple.

Rumor has it that Apple has been contacted a number of times by third parties to buy the NewtonOS.

[quote]Originally posted by ihxo:
<strong>But the problem is it won't sell, that's the point I was talking about. Sony will still eat Apple's palm alive after eating handspring's and palm's.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think we're now arguing the same point. I was just trying to say firstly that Apple never made any promises about a new Newton, and secondly that Apple would be foolish to release a PDA (Or any kind of handheld) in a market currently unreceptive to such devices.

Everyone can now go back to the fun speculation stuff. I'm done.