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Is Apple making way for the 970?

post #1 of 79
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I'm just wondering if Apple's doing all of these upgrades for the 970 and beyond. Apple's usual upgrade window is 6 months (at least for the powermac), and almost everything in thier line has been bumped up.

We aren't seeing any leaps and bounds here....which leads me to believe that Apple is preparing their machines for the next generation.

With the G4 in thier present state (from what I've read) reaching thier limit, Apple may be getting the small upgrades out of the way in time for this fall

Time will tell
post #2 of 79
I believe so. I think Apple is positoning their lineup to neatly add PPC 970 Powermacs to the top of the line late this years.

The G4 is scaling well enough to add beef to the lower and midrange lineups.

I'd like to see a PPC970 2U or 3U Xserve with more grunt.

The iBook may go G4 in one model soon now that 130nm G4's are coming.
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post #3 of 79
IBM may be piling up 970s for them and Apple so they have enough on hand when it is released. I would not be surprised if Apple and IBM released 970 machines together on the same day. My opinion is that Apple will update the entire PowerMac line with the 970, maybe having only the highend or high and high-mid range models with duals. Remember that a mainreason for the 970 is for IBM to have a cheap alternative for the low end to the POWER4. I predict no more than $200 for the 970.
post #4 of 79
Something tell me that there will be two lines of powermac when the 970 will be introduced : the high end one with IBM chips, and a low end one with the G4 and the current mobo. The low one will be less expansive with a good prize drop : it will be the low cost power that some consumers wants.

If you look , boot powerbook and i mac 2 lines, you will see that they did not change all the line. The 17 inch and 12 inch powerbook are build upon a new design, the 15 inch is the old design. For the i mac 2 the 17 inch is the new design (with the DDR mobo and ATA 100) and the 15 inch is the old design with a smaller prize.
post #5 of 79
You know. After the release of the 970 based PowerMacs, the towers in their current for *could* probably find new life as the fabled consumer tower that so many seem enamored of. They might not be the ouright fastest machines on the planet but they are really not too bad at all.
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post #6 of 79
Hmmmm could we see.

eMac- 1Ghz G4
iMac- 1.25-1.6 G4
PM- 1.4-1.8 PPC 970.

Would Apple face issues explaining that a PPC970 at 1.4 Ghz is much faster than a G4 @ 1.6Ghz?

For once we'd have some true seperation between the lines. Hopefully then Apple could offer the same Base connectivity(even down to Gigabit) and the choice to consumers would simply be speed, RAM and HD size.
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post #7 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:
<strong>If you look , boot powerbook and i mac 2 lines, you will see that they did not change all the line. The 17 inch and 12 inch powerbook are build upon a new design, the 15 inch is the old design. </strong><hr></blockquote>

No, I think we have the old 15" Powerbook still around solely because of inventory purposes. As soon as the channel clears (enough), we should see a 15" AlBook treat.

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post #8 of 79
Sandbagging. The iMac2...'power'Macs etc. They've had slight cpu upgrades for while now and lengthy intervals between updates.

[quote] Would Apple face issues explaining that a PPC970 at 1.4 Ghz is much faster than a G4 @ 1.6Ghz?

<hr></blockquote>

Nope because a 970 at 1.4 Gig would beat the snot out of a 1.6 Gig G4!

It's clear to me that Apple cpu land is like a damn that is about to burst. Years of pent up cpu angst and POW!

970 hits!

G4 gets it's sorry arse kicked into the consumer line. Thought the Powerbook may see a '57' G4 at 1.3 or something.

970 hits the 'power'Macs. It's pretty elementary. Should boost the flagging 'flagship' quite a bit.

We're just going to have to wait another four months or so for it.

Macworld New York. Let's hope Apple saved the best for the last.

Lemon Bon Bon

[quote]eMac- 1Ghz G4
iMac- 1.25-1.6 G4
PM- 1.4-1.8 PPC 970.

<hr></blockquote>

Something like that.

I think the Dead Parrot called it with his assessment of Apple's everything at once revamp.

That's the winter line up.

The Summer line up is looking for a similar revamp but with far deeper reaching ramifications for performance. Hopefully the kind we've been waiting years for.

[ 02-11-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]

[ 02-11-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
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post #9 of 79
LemonBB, I agree with you dam bursting analogy. I think Steve would be doing an injustice to the pro line to keep any Moto hardware after 970 arrival. He wouldn't want any chance of benchmarks continuing against Moto parts, so the 970 should be a shoo-in across the pro line.

That should give the consumer line a decent boost up to the faster Moto chips (and newer low power ones) as well. (Personally, I'm hoping for powerful silent consumer machines.)

However, I suspect MWNY may be too early for a release of the 970 kit. So, do not be disappointed if it doesn't arrive for some time after that late Q3 or early Q4. Then, we'll all be happy, but Apple always takes its sweet time. Plus, it's important they have a flawless (hardware, if not software as well) release. The 970 update needs to be a strong no-brainer for all those with a wait-and-see attitude.
post #10 of 79
The thing I have to wonder is how long the OS9-booting PMs are going to hang around. I'd hate to see Apple having to hold off launching the new hardware just because Quark haven't got their act together, and with the announcement of MS Exchange compatibility with X coming along, Xpress is going to be the last bastion of market resistance...
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post #11 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by Overhope:
<strong>The thing I have to wonder is how long the OS9-booting PMs are going to hang around. I'd hate to see Apple having to hold off launching the new hardware just because Quark haven't got their act together, and with the announcement of MS Exchange compatibility with X coming along, Xpress is going to be the last bastion of market resistance...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Apple wont hold off high end computers for Quark. They may continue selling last years dual 1.2 Ghz longer than they stated, though I doubt it. Apple has held off long enough for Quark, and it is cutting into Apples revenues.
post #12 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by JCG:
<strong>

Apple wont hold off high end computers for Quark. They may continue selling last years dual 1.2 Ghz longer than they stated, though I doubt it. Apple has held off long enough for Quark, and it is cutting into Apples revenues.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Although, if they kept selling the old Dual 1.25 "leafblower" side by side with all-new, screaming 970-based PowerMacs, Quark users might be that much more willing to look at InDesign, or some other alternative.

However, I don't expect Apple to keep the old Dual G4 going past July. Quark was supposed to release XPress this past November. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #13 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>Would Apple face issues explaining that a PPC970 at 1.4 Ghz is much faster than a G4 @ 1.6Ghz?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

This shouldn't an issue -- consider the following:


PowerMacintosh G5 with a 1.4 GHz 64-bit processor and SuperBus(tm) technology.

LCD iMac with a 1.6 GHz G4.


Which would you buy?
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post #14 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>Would Apple face issues explaining that a PPC970 at 1.4 Ghz is much faster than a G4 @ 1.6Ghz? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Steve's a persuasive fellow.

The 64-bitness, the dual FPUs... I can design a DISTURBING demo comparing them -&gt; the Demo-design team's probably been drooling over this chip for a couple of years now. And they've had nothing better to do then tweak for, um, YEARS.

If you call the 970 by a new name (G5, G6, GX, GXtreme, etc.) it'll be the same break as between the G3 & the G4. The 'new chip' &gt;&gt; G4. Major chip changes have always been pretty easy to sell - even when the G3 wasn't comparing well at all to the ppc 604e on numerically intensive code.
post #15 of 79
I'd be willing to bet that the dev cycle of the G4 PowerMacs is independent of the future G5/970 machines. What of the 970 is late and your caught with your pants down?
post #16 of 79
[quote] Originally posted by Programmer:
PowerMacintosh G5 with a 1.4 GHz 64-bit processor and SuperBus(tm) technology.<hr></blockquote>

Not SuperBus, System Bus Extreme©®?!!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Also, would it be possible to put a 970 in a PowerBook?
post #17 of 79
First of all, "leafblower"? I hadn't heard that one!

But I wouldn't be surprised to see the lower tower stay with a G4. Know why? To sell to those who see the stunning 20" ACD and crave it but not enough to buy a $1700 970. The G4 could be the headless iMac (a dual 1.25 or single 1.42). Apple would maintain a good profit margin on the combo via selling the big screen.

Leafblower! ha ha ha. (I don't get out that much.)
post #18 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by reynard:
First of all, "leafblower"? I hadn't heard that one!
<hr></blockquote>

Personally I prefer "PowerMac G4 Turbo" since it has a better connotation.
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post #19 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by reynard:
<strong>First of all, "leafblower"? I hadn't heard that one!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's what people were calling the original MDD PowerMacs on the Apple Support Forums.

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post #20 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by reynard:
<strong>First of all, "leafblower"? I hadn't heard that one!

But I wouldn't be surprised to see the lower tower stay with a G4. Know why? To sell to those who see the stunning 20" ACD and crave it but not enough to buy a $1700 970. The G4 could be the headless iMac (a dual 1.25 or single 1.42). Apple would maintain a good profit margin on the combo via selling the big screen.

Leafblower! ha ha ha. (I don't get out that much.)</strong><hr></blockquote>


you mean $1700 to $2700 G4 and $3700 970. Apple has to get a top of the line machine not just add a new chip to the middle of the run, I'd think.
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post #21 of 79
The PPC970 will be used in the PowerMacs, Xserves, and PowerBooks IMHO. Also, I would expect it anywhere from July-November. Single 1.4ghz, dual 1.6ghz, and dual 1.8ghz for the powermacs. The Xserves will have 1.8ghz single and dual. The PowerBooks will have 1.2Ghz and 1.4Ghz. Can't wait? ... me either! Of course this is just speculation. However, IBM has announced there own plans for making 970 serves. <a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984353.html?tag=fd_top" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984353.html?tag=fd_top</a> This year at that, so why shouldn't apple have them as well.
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post #22 of 79
PM's can not afford to get a penny more expensive than they already are. PPC970 will NOT do more than temporarily slow the bleeding if it drives costs up. At a bare minimum the mid and high-end models have to stay exactly where they are price wise while at LEAST adding PPC970 performance and DP performance on the high-end. The low end tower, unless it's going to also get a PPC970 has to get a LOT cheaper.
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post #23 of 79
I have no idea why people get it in their head that the 970 is going to be some super expensive chip. The PowerMacs, Xserves, and PowerBooks will use the 970 before the end of the year. They will not cost anymore than they do now, I promise. Gosh people it's not a Power4 is a 970. IBM made this chip to be a cheaper alternative to the Power4.
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post #24 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by Algol:
<strong>I have no idea why people get it in their head that the 970 is going to be some super expensive chip. The PowerMacs, Xserves, and PowerBooks will use the 970 before the end of the year. They will not cost anymore than they do now, I promise. Gosh people it's not a Power4 is a 970. IBM made this chip to be a cheaper alternative to the Power4.</strong><hr></blockquote>

yup.
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post #25 of 79
Yet, the 970 dissipates more heat than current G4s. And seriously, I don't want HOTTER PowerBooks.
post #26 of 79
[quote]Yet, the 970 dissipates more heat than current G4s. And seriously, I don't want HOTTER PowerBooks[\\.<hr></blockquote>Supposedly 12W at 1.2GHZ. I believe this is less than current chips in PBs.
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post #27 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by cowerd:
<strong>Supposedly 12W at 1.2GHZ. I believe this is less than current chips in PBs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I thought it was 19W @ 1.2?
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post #28 of 79
[quote]I thought it was 19W @ 1.2?<hr></blockquote>Yeah it is. Dyslexic and stupid.
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post #29 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by fryke:
<strong>Yet, the 970 dissipates more heat than current G4s. And seriously, I don't want HOTTER PowerBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think it'll see the inside of a PowerBook before it moves to .09&mu;. At that point it should be fine.

On the other hand, Apple is getting really good at both passive and active cooling in those ultrathin cases. I'd be surprised if the low-voltage 970 (the one that consumes 19W at 1.2GHz) is much hotter than the 1GHz 7455 sitting in the PB right now (~15W at 1GHz if I remember right).
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post #30 of 79
According to <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/orderablepart_parametrics.jsp?code=MPC7455&nodeId= 018rH3bTdG8653" target="_blank">this page @ Moto</a> the 7455 that draws the least power @ 1 GHz draws 21.3 W typical (PPC7455RX1000LC).

I guess a 19 W 970 @ 1.2 GHz would do nicely in a PowerBook.
post #31 of 79
[quote]I guess a 19 W 970 @ 1.2 GHz would do nicely in a PowerBook.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, in *my* new 15.4 ...
post #32 of 79
I am agreeing that the current- and last-update G4's are just interum holdover machines, designed to fend off the Pentium for the meantime, while Apple devotes the majority of the Apple hardware workforce to work on the real Mackoy. (Is that how you spell it?) Its kinda like a Trojan Horse diversion strategy. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #33 of 79
One question. How much smaller will the .09 IBM chip be than the G4's currently produced? This may provide for additional processors to be placed in the same relative real estate that a larger G4 currently occupies in the PB. With reduction in heat output with the smaller chip and the creation of better cooling techniques this seems a possibility. Afterall, why have one when you can have two? Towers are a nice thing to have, but when you need to be mobile, there ought to be a hard core Power Book that can get the job done without maxing out resources.
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post #34 of 79
Okay, I did some research on my own using PDF's provided on IBM's website and on Motorola's. Here's what I found when comparing the two chips: 970 and the MPC 7457 / MPC 7447 (low power for the Power Book). I found that IBM gave a lot more stats on it's chips than the Moto folks did. I found that the 970 1.8 GHz struts it's stuff with peak scalar GFLOPS of 7.2, SIMD GFLOPS at 14.4, and it's dimensions are 25x25mm (far smaller than the G4 - just visually confirming as Moto didn't provide measurements). The only comparible stats I could find in their PDF's were the Dhrystone test results. The G4 @ 1GHz = 2310. The 970 @ 1.8 GHz = 5220! That's well over double the performance of the G4 at less than double the GHz. With a much smaller footprint and lower wattage, this chip might be able to be placed in the Power Book in a multi chip configuration, but even if it doesn't, the evidence provided by the manufacturers suggests that even a single 970 in a PB would really improve intensive processing functions provided that OS X and the accompanying iApps move over to the 64 bit side of the house. Just figured I'd share my findings with you all. Have a good day.
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post #35 of 79
Personally I believe that the 970 will be well able to run a PowerBook in the 1.2Ghz form. It doesn't use any more power than the G4 1Ghz. Just another myth. We may even see 970 PowerBooks before 970 PowerMacs, granted only a week ahead or so, but yet first. I believe we will be very pleased come late summer! Gosh I'm getting so excited!

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post #36 of 79
Just because it happened with Airport Extreme and Firewire 800 doesn't mean that a new processor will be initialized in a portable before a desktop. What I think will happen is Apple will use the newly released 7447/7457 processors. They are very power-efficient and they run cool: two awesome traits of a mobile processor. The desktops will have 970, and 8X AGP, hopefully with a Geforce FX installed.
post #37 of 79
The 7457 will not be available before the 970, actually it may not be out till after the 970. Just thought you should know.
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post #38 of 79
[quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:
<strong>Something tell me that there will be two lines of powermac when the 970 will be introduced : the high end one with IBM chips, and a low end one with the G4 and the current mobo. The low one will be less expansive with a good prize drop : it will be the low cost power that some consumers wants.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do I smell cube?
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post #39 of 79
I smell I Dell competitor. If priced correctly, the G4s could take on the dirt- cheap hunks of underdesigned crap that Dell is spewing. And, obviously, the Macs would be sold by the outside looks and inside power that is native to the Powermac lineup.
post #40 of 79
I find it amusing to read recent posts in these forums discussing the NV30/GeforceFX.

Sorry folks, but it looks like Nvidia have dropped the ball on this one... This video card looks and smells like a turkey.

It might provide the best graphics performance available, but at what price? Loosing an additional expansion slot in your system? Burning out the power supply in your case? Having even noisier fans blowing air about? I think even the hardcore PC gamers are questioning it's viability in the market, and that is saying something....
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