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Time to make English the official language of the U.S.

post #1 of 160
Thread Starter 
I urge each and everyone here to join 'USEnglish' to make English the official language of the US. I dont think our tax dollars should go to printing govmnt info in every damn language in the world. Go to http://www.us-english.org

It appears that my county printed spanish language ballots using improper syntax and that infuriated Evelyn Pappa, who said it was an insult because her parents couldn't figure out what to do as a voter. Her parents have been in this country for FORTY years-yes, thats right, 40 years!! And SHE is insulted. Now, they are thinking about suing. Seems to me if the lazy ****s had bothered learning to speak and read the language of the country that has allowed them to live a good life this wouldnt be an issue.

The Federal Govmnt mandated that my county print a bi-lingual ballot, but the Federal Govmnt doesnt pick up the cost. Heres my reply to the Federal Govmnt-**** You! And my reply to the Pappa family, who so proudly show a picture of themselves in the paper-**** you too............................................... .................
post #2 of 160
sorry, steve. i disagree. i won't be signing this petition or joining this org, etc.. if you get some sort of federal requirement to pass an english literacy test after a certain amount of time has passed, then you have a better case. but right now, there is no requirement to KNOW the english language (and i am not sure if there are effective programs for people to learn the language from accredited people), so there should be no requirement for english-only documentation.

seriously, treat the illness, not the symptoms. i think designing and printing everything in multiple languages does suck a lot of time and resources, but until something changes from higher up, it's the only fair thing to do.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #3 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
sorry, steve. i disagree. i won't be signing this petition or joining this org, etc.. if you get some sort of federal requirement to pass an english literacy test after a certain amount of time has passed, then you have a better case. but right now, there is no requirement to KNOW the english language (and i am not sure if there are effective programs for people to learn the language from accredited people), so there should be no requirement for english-only documentation.

seriously, treat the illness, not the symptoms. i think designing and printing everything in multiple languages does suck a lot of time and resources, but until something changes from higher up, it's the only fair thing to do.

Up until, what, 10-20 years ago or so that was the way it was and nobody ever thought it was unfair. Only organized latino lobbies decided they shouldn't have to learn the defacto language of this country and then pressured the politicians (at the time mostly Democrats) to make sure the Govmnt printed ballots, etc in Spanish. Then, of course, other minority groups jumped into the mix. There are English courses being taught all over the place, but I would only support making English the official language if English language courses were fully funded by the govmnt. Yes, that would cost money but I wouldn't mind my tax dollars going to a program that would enable immigrants to succeed at a faster pace and promote the linguistic unity of this country. It would be healthier for all of us I feel, and would push latinos to become more integrated and perhaps not being thought of as a 'minority' but as just another immigrant group. Which is what they are, regardless of what the politicians want them to be-another group held down by enabling policies and cheap votes............................................. ................
post #4 of 160
Listen to much Stormtroopers Of Death, Steve?
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #5 of 160
I wont support English as the official language. I might support a bill that specifically said that Fed' and states are not required to offer documents in a language other than English. I'm sure the courts would strike that down in some cases.
post #6 of 160
Si, solo hablo ingles in Los Estados Unidos.


Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 160
We should probably hold off on that until later...like when it's more appropriate to make Spanish the national language.

I simply do not understand this obsession with English as the national language...as if English's status is somehow threatened. This line you've chosen, Steve, about the waste of tax dollars is honestly one of the first times I've seen it in action. Your tax dollars go to far more wasteful things than printing ballots in foreign languages. Why this has achieved such notoriety and those others haven't is beyond me.

I'd frankly be surprised to see too many republicans in Florida, Texas, Arizona, Utah, and Nevada go for this, since the hispanic population tends to be so conservative. Why would you want to potentially alienate/piss off voters?

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #8 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
I wont support English as the official language. I might support a bill that specifically said that Fed' and states are not required to offer documents in a language other than English. I'm sure the courts would strike that down in some cases.

That wouldn't work because there would still be political pressure on State and local politicians to still offer the documents, even though the majority of people are against it. Thats why I support US English. By the way, the head of the organization is latino

...........................
post #9 of 160
i think making English the 'official' language would be terrible. one of the best parts of this country is its diversity. i think every effort should be made to ensure that almost any language should be available in whatever context they are required, when information is being supplied by the government. if we make english the 'official' language, there could start arguments against translating anything we do, in official documents/proceedings. i can imagine all kinds of freedom loving immigrants getting screwed on some kind of small criminal charge, if they couldn't understand the judge in english. spanish speaking people are the largest growing group in america (i'm pretty sure i heard a statistic along those lines), to require them to learn english alienating a lot of people. (the same person who told me that spanish-speaking people are the largest growing group told me that) in a generation or two, spanish-speaking people will outnumber english-speakers (though many will likely be bi-lingual). its nice for us english speaking americans, but it seems narrowminded, impnsho.
post #10 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
We should probably hold off on that until later...like when it's more appropriate to make Spanish the national language.

I simply do not understand this obsession with English as the national language...as if English's status is somehow threatened. This line you've chosen, Steve, about the waste of tax dollars is honestly one of the first times I've seen it in action. Your tax dollars go to far more wasteful things than printing ballots in foreign languages. Why this has achieved such notoriety and those others haven't is beyond me.

I'd frankly be surprised to see too many republicans in Florida, Texas, Arizona, Utah, and Nevada go for this, since the hispanic population tends to be so conservative. Why would you want to potentially alienate/piss off voters?

Cheers
Scott

I don't know if I'd call it an obsession but it is something that irks me. You're correct, of course, that there is money wasted in many other ways, but I just think its ludicrous not to expect someone to speak English in this country and to make it easy for them not to. There are so many on welfare that can't speak English. That is just crazy. When i read that article and the woman said it was an insult that the ballot was printed in imperfect Spanish it just pissed me off. I consider it an insult to my country, i really do, right or wrong. Latinos are always saying that their culture and heritage should be respected, but I can't say the same about mine? Something just ain't right.

As for the politicians you are correct. Most of them don't have the guts to say what they truly believe. Just a few years ago the vast majority of Republicans publicly stated my beliefs-in fact it was part of the Republican Convention. Now, even though the majority of voters have been found to support the position , the possibility of losing even 10% of the vote is enough to turn a Republican into a pandering Democrat. Thats why USEnglish is facing such an uphill climb. You would think that with a Republican President and Republican Congress it would be a shoe-in. Not anymore...................................
post #11 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
That wouldn't work because there would still be political pressure on State and local politicians to still offer the documents, even though the majority of people are against it. Thats why I support US English. By the way, the head of the organization is latino

...........................


Well in that case they'd have to bar any other language. Regardless of English being the "official" language.
post #12 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Latinos are always saying that their culture and heritage should be respected, but I can't say the same about mine? Something just ain't right.

Please explain how your culture is being threatened.

The issue here is whether we want a "melting pot" or a "stew pot," that is, a country where all difference are melted away and we become a homogenous culture or a country where individual differences combine to make a greater, richer-tasting whole.

Damn I'm hungry.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #13 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i think making English the 'official' language would be terrible. one of the best parts of this country is its diversity. i think every effort should be made to ensure that almost any language should be available in whatever context they are required, when information is being supplied by the government. if we make english the 'official' language, there could start arguments against translating anything we do, in official documents/proceedings. i can imagine all kinds of freedom loving immigrants getting screwed on some kind of small criminal charge, if they couldn't understand the judge in english. spanish speaking people are the largest growing group in america (i'm pretty sure i heard a statistic along those lines), to require them to learn english alienating a lot of people. (the same person who told me that spanish-speaking people are the largest growing group told me that) in a generation or two, spanish-speaking people will outnumber english-speakers (though many will likely be bi-lingual). its nice for us english speaking americans, but it seems narrowminded, impnsho.

We have always been 'diverse'. Its that diversity that makes the use of a common language all the more important. And why on earth should spanish-speaking people feel alienated by having to learn to speak English like EVERY single immigrant who has come to this country? Germans, Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Haitians, Japanese, Koreans, Russians, etc etc. Why doesn't it bother them? You think its difficult to learn a new language, try converting from Russian to English-they don't even use the same alphabet!

Let me ask you this-if you moved to France would you expect to learn to speak French? If you moved to Mexico would you expect to have to learn to speak Spanish? Would it 'insult' you if it were expected of you?.........................................
post #14 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Please explain how your culture is being threatened.

The issue here is whether we want a "melting pot" or a "stew pot," that is, a country where all difference are melted away and we become a homogenous culture or a country where individual differences combine to make a greater, richer-tasting whole.

Damn I'm hungry.

Cheers
Scott

When some groups feel that they don't feel the need or want to learn the language of my country it insults me. Thats the way I feel, right or wrong. It has ticked me off ever since I lived in LA for 6 years and all of a sudden I'm reading Spanish on my bank's ATMs. It strikes me as being wrong-for the country and for them.
I believe in a melting pot-you never lose your old heritage completely, you just add pieces of it to the pot. Thats why New Yorkers throw Yiddish and Italian into their conversations. The same is true of Spanish.

We just all need to be able to communicate with each other.

Now, I'm getting tired-be back tomorrow. Hasta manana............................................ .............
post #15 of 160
We *should* outlaw not-white people.
proud resident of a failed state
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post #16 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
We have always been 'diverse'. Its that diversity that makes the use of a common language all the more important. And why on earth should spanish-speaking people feel alienated by having to learn to speak English like EVERY single immigrant who has come to this country? Germans, Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Haitians, Japanese, Koreans, Russians, etc etc. Why doesn't it bother them? You think its difficult to learn a new language, try converting from Russian to English-they don't even use the same alphabet!

well, for whatever reason, they didn't put up a fight. but, i think immigrants from non-spanish-speaking countries have just as much of a right to have official correspondence translated into their native tongue as the spaniards do. i don't like the idea of restricting our nation to one language, particularly one that may very well be on the decline.

Quote:
Let me ask you this-if you moved to France would you expect to learn to speak French? If you moved to Mexico would you expect to have to learn to speak Spanish? Would it 'insult' you if it were expected of you?.........................................

well, and i'm quite ignorant so correct me if i'm wrong, but those countries don't have as a diverse nature as america. floods of europeans/asians/.. didn't say "hey, we don't like this country, why dont we move to France." they overwhelmingly chose the US, and largely, i think, for our diverse nature. plus, it bothers me a bit that i would have to learn another language to effectively get around one of those nations. i did a bit of traveling in Europe, and was lukcy enough to have a translator so that I wouldn't have to learn Russian, Swedish (well, Swedes, or those I met, speak English fluently) or the native language of any of the places I went to. one of the most important aspects of our nation is its diversity: of cultures, of backgrounds and of languages.
post #17 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by thuh Freak
well, and i'm quite ignorant so correct me if i'm wrong, but those countries don't have as a diverse nature as america. floods of europeans/asians/.. didn't say "hey, we don't like this country, why dont we move to France."

England has a pretty diverse population, especially in the industrial cities (London, Manchester, Birmingham), and everywhere I go when I'm there I find all kinds of languages being spoken. 8 our of 10 people I met in Germany a few years ago spoke English. I have non-spanish speaking friends living in Mexico who have no trouble getting around.

As ironic as it sounds, I wonder whether the issue here is that we're not quite multilingual ENOUGH to go telling people that they have to speak our language.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #18 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Your tax dollars go to far more wasteful things than printing ballots in foreign languages. Why this has achieved such notoriety and those others haven't is beyond me.

Because, of course, the "wasted tax dollars" is a smokescreen.
post #19 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by Timo
Because, of course, the "wasted tax dollars" is a smokescreen.

Indeed it is.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #20 of 160
We should outlaw the Southern Drawl, the Surf Talk, New York mumbling and the Cape Cod slothy weirdness.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #21 of 160
Ladies and gentlemen, your country is in trouble. Trust me. I've seen it in every post-Soviet region and it's déjÃ* vu.
1. You just cannot duplicate everything in every language. After the initial precedent every time there'll be a lot of seriously offended people.
2. You cannot justify every whim of every moron. Because if I cannot speak nor read nor know what the hell to do or not to do, I am a moron. I am not a citizen, which I would be if I were insane. A citizen is at the very least expected to be able to learn the most basic laws of his/her country. If (s)he cannot because doesn't want to, WTF? What civil rights can (s)he pretend to if (s)he doesn't give a damn about anything?
3. The easiest way is to set up a standard. State that English is necessary. It's much cheaper to teach everybody English than duplicate the whole world in every possible dialect.

Otherwise, be prepared to deal with chauvinism with each breath and each step.
Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand. Putts Law
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post #22 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
I urge each and everyone here to join 'USEnglish' to make English the official language of the US. I dont think our tax dollars should go to printing govmnt info in every damn language in the world. Go to http://www.us-english.org

While your at it why not rename the language to 'American' if its going to be the official state language? This would resolve the US-English vs English-English problems.
post #23 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by thuh Freak
well, for whatever reason, they didn't put up a fight. but, i think immigrants from non-spanish-speaking countries have just as much of a right to have official correspondence translated into their native tongue as the spaniards do. i don't like the idea of restricting our nation to one language, particularly one that may very well be on the decline.


well, and i'm quite ignorant so correct me if i'm wrong, but those countries don't have as a diverse nature as america. floods of europeans/asians/.. didn't say "hey, we don't like this country, why dont we move to France." they overwhelmingly chose the US, and largely, i think, for our diverse nature. plus, it bothers me a bit that i would have to learn another language to effectively get around one of those nations. i did a bit of traveling in Europe, and was lukcy enough to have a translator so that I wouldn't have to learn Russian, Swedish (well, Swedes, or those I met, speak English fluently) or the native language of any of the places I went to. one of the most important aspects of our nation is its diversity: of cultures, of backgrounds and of languages.


How is English on the decline? If anything its the other way around. English is considered the worldwide language of business. Don't forget, I'm not suggesting that people here should know ONLY english, just that English should be the official common language of the US. Its good to know more than one language.

As for France, their population is diverse also, of course not like ours, but they have many Arabs, Algerians, and other Europeans living there but language is not an issue. They know they must learn to speak French to survive. Our diversity is a plus, but if we become a babble of competing languages it will be a disaster...................................
post #24 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by costique
Ladies and gentlemen, your country is in trouble. Trust me. I've seen it in every post-Soviet region and it's déjÃ* vu.
1. You just cannot duplicate everything in every language. After the initial precedent every time there'll be a lot of seriously offended people.
2. You cannot justify every whim of every moron. Because if I cannot speak nor read nor know what the hell to do or not to do, I am a moron. I am not a citizen, which I would be if I were insane. A citizen is at the very least expected to be able to learn the most basic laws of his/her country. If (s)he cannot because doesn't want to, WTF? What civil rights can (s)he pretend to if (s)he doesn't give a damn about anything?
3. The easiest way is to set up a standard. State that English is necessary. It's much cheaper to teach everybody English than duplicate the whole world in every possible dialect.

Otherwise, be prepared to deal with chauvinism with each breath and each step.

Amen brother
post #25 of 160
I think Arnold is still learning english... he doesn't speak it very well... and he's running for Governor! what a country.

The US-English thing is just a right-wing agenda requiring people to pass an english test to become a citizen... thay already have to pass test to become a citizen... and it does want to BAN the use of other languages in government buildings...

not very inclusive thinking.
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

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post #26 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
I think Arnold is still learning english... he doesn't speak it very well... and he's running for Governor! what a country.

The US-English thing is just a right-wing agenda requiring people to pass an english test to become a citizen... thay already have to pass test to become a citizen... and it does want to BAN the use of other languages in government buildings...

not very inclusive thinking.

Its not right-wing its common sense. And you can't get more inclusive than wanting everyone to be able to understand one another. Many nationalities, one language-English.........................
post #27 of 160
except that it's meant to EXCLUDE you if you can't speak english well enough to pass a test.

Ever see how well english speaking students do on history and geography tests? Maybe they should be deported... hehe
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post #28 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Its not right-wing its common sense. And you can't get more inclusive than wanting everyone to be able to understand one another. Many nationalities, one language-English.........................

It's not common sense because this country is not unified under one language and it never should be.

Indians have their own languages and that should be encouraged. In Louisiana they speak French in some areas. That should be encouraged. Limiting the locals in the entire country to needing only English is limiting your brain and your potential. Better to let other languages flourish as well as English.

You have yet to make an intelligent argument for why English is necessary. Saying it's 'common sense' isn't a rational argument. It's emotion.
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post #29 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
It's not common sense because this country is not unified under one language and it never should be.

Indians have their own languages and that should be encouraged. In Louisiana they speak French in some areas. That should be encouraged. Limiting the locals in the entire country to needing only English is limiting your brain and your potential. Better to let other languages flourish as well as English.

You have yet to make an intelligent argument for why English is necessary. Saying it's 'common sense' isn't a rational argument. It's emotion.

Your first sentence is ridiculous. To think that a country as diverse as the US shouldnt speak a common language makes no sense.

I never said no other languages should be spoken or used. I said that everyone should have to know how to speak english. If you speak more than one language that is good.....................
post #30 of 160
I'm all for individuals and businesses using any language they want, but I see no reason that my NYC voter guide has to come in forty languages and all the forms at the DMV have to be available in everything but Swahili.
post #31 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trick fall
I'm all for individuals and businesses using any language they want, but I see no reason that my NYC voter guide has to come in forty languages and all the forms at the DMV have to be available in everything but Swahili.

swahili is next
post #32 of 160
I don't see the big deal about non-English speakers here. We're talking about one generation of a family or community who can't speak English. Those people's children will almost always know English as well as their parents' native tongue, and the second generation of children will usually only know English.

What was that movie about the National Spelling Bee (spelling English words, obviously) that was out recently? One of the finalists was a girl whose dad was a migrant farmer who didn't speak a word of English. While an exceptional case by degree, it demonstrates a typical pattern.

Besides, I just met a guy who emigrated to the US 30 years ago. He runs his own business and is the boss of a bunch of guys who are his age, have been here for the same amount of time, and are arguably more talented and smarter than he is. Why does he run the business? He's the one who learned English. As a de facto standard here, people's fortunes are already greatly affected by the language barrier or lack thereof. People will either respond by "jumping in" to the language, or will seek the comfort of their native tongue, and what happens happens. Their choices have their consequences, they have to live with them.
post #33 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I don't see the big deal about non-English speakers here. We're talking about one generation of a family or community who can't speak English. Those people's children will almost always know English as well as their parents' native tongue, and the second generation of children will usually only know English.

What was that movie about the National Spelling Bee (spelling English words, obviously) that was out recently? One of the finalists was a girl whose dad was a migrant farmer who didn't speak a word of English. While an exceptional case by degree, it demonstrates a typical pattern.

Besides, I just met a guy who emigrated to the US 30 years ago. He runs his own business and is the boss of a bunch of guys who are his age, have been here for the same amount of time, and are arguably more talented and smarter than he is. Why does he run the business? He's the one who learned English. As a de facto standard here, people's fortunes are already greatly affected by the language barrier or lack thereof. People will either respond by "jumping in" to the language, or will seek the comfort of their native tongue, and what happens happens. Their choices have their consequences, they have to live with them.

And so do we. Its costly to appease them by printing items in their language and its costly when they become an economic burden because they didnt feel compelled to learn to speak English and make them more marketable in the workplace. Thats why i support USEnglish..............................
post #34 of 160
Seems pretty obvious the originator of this THREAD just has a severe dislike for hispanics. What a joke.
post #35 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
Seems pretty obvious the originator of this THREAD just has a severe dislike for hispanics. What a joke.

Oh God, its followed me. Anyone have a flyswatter?
post #36 of 160
I support it.
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post #37 of 160
Flies love sht. Why are you so surprised king turd?
post #38 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by JRC
I support it.

Good man. By the way, we wouldn't know it from this forum but polls have shown the majority of Americans support it also.
post #39 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
except that it's meant to EXCLUDE you if you can't speak english well enough to pass a test.

Ever see how well english speaking students do on history and geography tests? Maybe they should be deported... hehe

A similar tactic was used in the South to keep blacks from voting; they had to pass a "literacy test" before they could be allowed to vote.

Cheers
Scott
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #40 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Your first sentence is ridiculous. To think that a country as diverse as the US shouldnt speak a common language makes no sense.

The US does speak a common tongue.

When the majority of this country speaks Spanish, and the poll numbers show that Spanish should become the official language, would you support that? Or would you just say 'they're wrong' and get upset about it?

The U.S. is so isolated that some of the only contact some Americans get with foreign languages is on a DMV form. That's pathetic.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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