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Time to make English the official language of the U.S. - Page 4

post #121 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
US has always been a pluri-cultural, pluri-linguistic country. It havin only ONE language spoken will never happen.



... \

Guess again. The US has always had a quasi-official language. Read some of the quotes I posted above about why its so important.

On a side note, Go Arnold! I thought he held his own in the debate, although he could have been more vocal about illegal immigration. Except for him and McClintock (who is too conservative for my taste) the others couldn't rip their spines out fast enough............................................ ......
post #122 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666

Open your eyes for they are closed...........................................

Boy, am I lucky you took time out of your algebra homework to tell me that.

So, I didn't see a single quote in there that had any relevance to what I'm now posting for the fourth time:

"There is no evidence that bilingual accommodations slow down English acquisition...only unsupported claims about ethnic separatism and immigrants' disinclination to learn English unless forced to do so."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/question.htm

And as pointed out on another page, "The rate of linguistic assimilation is clearly accelerating, a phenomenon that can be seen even in the relatively brief span of the 1980s."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...RD/can-pop.htm
post #123 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Go Arnold! I thought he held his own in the debate, although he could have been more vocal about illegal immigration.

Is he not being quiet on that issue because he illegally took a job while visiting the states with a student visa?

Damn illegals, coming over here, stealing our jobs and women, talking funny and stuff.
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post #124 of 160
steve, there seems to be something wrong with your dot key. for some reason when you hit it it makes 200 dots, not one. could you have it fixed? it looks a bit annoying.
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How many problems have you modified or originated in the past 1 day?
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post #125 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Unfortunately many Americans are boobs. They should bring an electronic translator with them....................................

Or maybe they should learn 6 different languages just to be allowed to enter Europe.
post #126 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Or maybe they should learn 6 different languages just to be allowed to enter Europe.



There go the European beer-crawl plans.

Damn.
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post #127 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Boy, am I lucky you took time out of your algebra homework to tell me that.

So, I didn't see a single quote in there that had any relevance to what I'm now posting for the fourth time:

"There is no evidence that bilingual accommodations slow down English acquisition...only unsupported claims about ethnic separatism and immigrants' disinclination to learn English unless forced to do so."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/question.htm

And as pointed out on another page, "The rate of linguistic assimilation is clearly accelerating, a phenomenon that can be seen even in the relatively brief span of the 1980s."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...RD/can-pop.htm


You can pull links out of your ass all night long, and i can find plenty of sources on USEnglish's website that says just the opposite. You get your links from folks who support bilingual education and your position. It proves nothing..................
post #128 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
steve, there seems to be something wrong with your dot key. for some reason when you hit it it makes 200 dots, not one. could you have it fixed? it looks a bit annoying.

I know its annoying, sorry about that. It seems that my sentences tend to get cut off if I dont do that. I'll try not doing it for awhile and see what happens.
post #129 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
i can find plenty of sources on USEnglish's website that says just the opposite.

Stop talking shite and post them then.
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post #130 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Stop talking shite and post them then.

Here you go, knock yourself out:

http://www.us-english.org/inc/official/
post #131 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
You can pull links out of your ass all night long, and i can find plenty of sources on USEnglish's website that says just the opposite. You get your links from folks who support bilingual education and your position. It proves nothing..................

Just to be clear, you're getting your links from folks who support unilingual education and your position.

Combine your links with Giants links and we're in danger of creating a black hole. \

All of these links are great, but I much prefer reading a cogent personal opinion, rather than links.

That goes for both sides of the argument.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #132 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
Just to be clear, you're getting your links from folks who support unilingual education and your position.

Combine your links with Giants links and we're in danger of creating a black hole. \

All of these links are great, but I much prefer reading a cogent personal opinion, rather than links.

That goes for both sides of the argument.

I listed so many reasons, personal reasons that I have always felt before I knew USEnglish even existed. I am opinionated out! I think it boils down to whether you lean one way or another. It would be very difficult to sway someones viewpoint who has pretty much already made up their minds. To someone who hasnt thought of the issue before our opinions may be more persuasive.
post #133 of 160
what if france or spain or portugal happened to conquer the states instead of uk (hundreds of years ago)? besides, americo vespucci was from genoa, working for portuguese ... we would be now complaining that there are some people that don't speak portuguese (or spanish) ... like when we go to uk we'd have difficutlies with out portuguese...
How many problems have you modified or originated in the past 1 day?
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How many problems have you modified or originated in the past 1 day?
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post #134 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Giaguara
what if france or spain or portugal happened to conquer the states instead of uk (hundreds of years ago)? besides, americo vespucci was from genoa, working for portuguese ... we would be now complaining that there are some people that don't speak portuguese (or spanish) ... like when we go to uk we'd have difficutlies with out portuguese...

Then we would be speaking French or Spanish or portuguese, but that didnt happen so English is where its at.
post #135 of 160
i think, instead of forcing people into an english-speaking nation, we should accomodate them in any way we can. american culture is one of diversity. forcing a language onto them may help them get jobs, or whatever, but perhaps in allowing them to not learn the language we are instead creating markets for other languages' to grow. if an area has a noticeable amount of x-language speakers, then businesses would probably profit more if they communicated in language-x. then, in these areas, english-speakers are at a disadvantage (perhaps we should be forced to speak 'x' when traveling to these areas ). it just so happens that most places in the u.s. speak english, but walk around chinatown and try to convince them to convert. its fvcking offensive. no one should be forced to do anything they don't want to, so long as their inaction doesn't hurt anybody. and the hurt caused by multilingualism is far too small to outweigh its inherent value.
post #136 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i think, instead of forcing people into an english-speaking nation, we should accomodate them in any way we can. american culture is one of diversity. forcing a language onto them may help them get jobs, or whatever, but perhaps in allowing them to not learn the language we are instead creating markets for other languages' to grow. if an area has a noticeable amount of x-language speakers, then businesses would probably profit more if they communicated in language-x. then, in these areas, english-speakers are at a disadvantage (perhaps we should be forced to speak 'x' when traveling to these areas ). it just so happens that most places in the u.s. speak english, but walk around chinatown and try to convince them to convert. its fvcking offensive. no one should be forced to do anything they don't want to, so long as their inaction doesn't hurt anybody. and the hurt caused by multilingualism is far too small to outweigh its inherent value.

No one is forced to move here either. If they do decide to move here they should be forced to conform at least somewhat with our language and culture. if thats too much for them they can stay home. They should accomodate us, not the other way around.
post #137 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
You can pull links out of your ass all night long, and i can find plenty of sources on USEnglish's website that says just the opposite. You get your links from folks who support bilingual education and your position. It proves nothing..................

You are still at this? There's nothing I can find on the website that addresses the facts I am citing.

What I do see, however, is a very unprofessional site grasping at straws.

For instance:

Quote:
he New York Times reports that Hispanics account for over 40 percent of the population of Hartford, and that the city is becoming Latinized. Last year, Eddie Perez became Hartfords first Hispanic mayor.

Note, too, that in the longer version it is never specified which of the 15 or so Hartfords in the US this is referring to. Regardless, this is a Hartford issue, not a national one. Certainly if this is a nation wide problem, surely they wouldn't have needed to devote two of their bullet points to one city and could have explained how the same thing is happening in the other 19,354 cities in the US. But it's not, so they didn't.

To show how much they are grasping for straws, check out what a whole bullet point was reserved for:

Quote:
A Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) housing inspector who spoke only broken English was sent to Germantown, New York with an interpreter to inspect flood damage. The inspector couldn't speak English well enough to understand the flood victims' needs. (Register Star, 2/13/96)

Come on!

And I found this particularly interesting:

Quote:
Only 20 percent of the residents of Puerto Rico a commonwealth of the U.S. speak English.

Funny they included this, since it actually undermines the argument.

So we have an unscientific (and almost every reference is to a newspaper article) collection of points that only demonstrate the growth of the Latino population in the US. They still don't address the problems cited here in what I am now posting for the 5th time:

"There is no evidence that bilingual accommodations slow down English acquisition...only unsupported claims about ethnic separatism and immigrants' disinclination to learn English unless forced to do so."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/question.htm

And as pointed out on another page, "The rate of linguistic assimilation is clearly accelerating, a phenomenon that can be seen even in the relatively brief span of the 1980s."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...RD/can-pop.htm
post #138 of 160
Thread Starter 
You're grasping at straws and seeing only what you want to see. Plus, your links are wrong. Just because you provided a link with someones opinion doesn't make it a fact.

the facts are, that if there were no problem then
1 why are bank ATMs in spanish and english?
2 why do govmnt forms have to be printed in a language other than english?
3 with the advent of spanish-language media, both print and TV, and govmnt forms in spanish, latinos can never learn to speak english. They can never get a better job, but they can function to some extent. This is happening today deny it all you want.
4 why is there bi-lingual education for only one set of immigrants?
5 most, if not all, products have brochures in spanish and english, most packages the same.
6 I cant use a calling card without specifying that i speak english.

These are all enabling policies that keep latinos in a lower economic and educational strata. The only group that benefits from this is the Democratic Party because they have their own little 'downtrodden' minority that always needs assistance.

Cut the crap and treat all immigrants the same, with no assistance and entitlements and in 10-20 yrs time the latino community would be much better off...................................
post #139 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
with the advent of spanish-language media, both print and TV, and govmnt forms in spanish, latinos can never learn to speak english. They can never get a better job

Are you going to support this opinion in any way?

Never is a very strong word.
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post #140 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Are you going to support this opinion in any way?

Never is a very strong word.

Good catch, I didnt phrase that properly. I meant to say that latinos can continue to speak spanish without ever having to learn to speak english even though that means they will not get a better job because they didnt bother to learn to speak english.
post #141 of 160
Alternatively you could embrace the future with some generosity and introduce compulsary Spanish lessons in your schools.
post #142 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Plus, your links are wrong.

What is with you? Are you ever going to provide anything to back up what you are saying.

Furthermore, here's who you are really arguing with when you say the links are wrong:
Quote:
James Crawford ... independent writer and lecturer formerly the Washington editor of Education Week who specializes in the politics of language. Since 1985, I have been reporting on the English Only movement, English Plus, bilingual education, efforts to save endangered languages, and language rights in the U.S.A._

You remind me of 123 when he argued against some info I posted on disk defragging, not recognizing that the author was the head of the Mac OS 8 team, helped design OS X and now the director of Apple Dev. Relations.

Of course, who the author is doesn't really matter. What matters is backing up your assertions, which you have yet to do.
post #143 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
You remind me of 123....

I thought you were talking about the Billy Wilder movie.
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post #144 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Alternatively you could embrace the future with some generosity and introduce compulsary Spanish lessons in your schools.

We already have that. Language lessons are compulsory in jr. high and high school, although it would be easier to start learning in elementary school. I had a choice between French and Spanish and chose Spanish, although a larger choice would be nice.............................................. .......
post #145 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
What is with you? Are you ever going to provide anything to back up what you are saying.

Furthermore, here's who you are really arguing with when you say the links are wrong:


You remind me of 123 when he argued against some info I posted on disk defragging, not recognizing that the author was the head of the Mac OS 8 team, helped design OS X and now the director of Apple Dev. Relations.

Of course, who the author is doesn't really matter. What matters is backing up your assertions, which you have yet to do.

What is with YOU? I have provided more than you have. You have yet to back up your assertions except with spurious links that support your incorrect theory. I have lived in LA and NY and I see first-hand the folly of current language policies.
post #146 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
What is with YOU? I have provided more than you have.



Maybe your HS classes didn't get to that part about quality mattering more than quantity.

Anyway, I suppose I could just start giving you more since you need it:

Quote:
English Only advocates ignore the fact that the Internal Revenue Service publishes provides certain forms, informational materials, and oral assistance in Spanish for a simple reason: cost-effectiveness. The amount of taxes collected as a result far exceeds the expenditure.

In sum, the accommodations now available to minority language speakers in the United States minimal when compared to those offered by many other countries hardly amount to "multilingual government."

English Only proponents have offered no evidence that curtailing such services would save money. To the contrary, passage of a "Language of Government Act" would probably add to the cost of government by making it less efficient. In a 1996 letter to the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, the Justice Department warned that S._356 could disrupt numerous federal operations that sometimes require the use of languages other than English. A partial list includes the Border Patrol, Immigration and Naturalization Service, Drug Enforcement Administration, Community Relations Service, Civil Rights Division, Bureau of Prisons, Administration on Aging, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Office of Refugee Resettlement, Administration for Native Americans, National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect, and the Veterans Administration.

Hmmmm.....

From the same site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/can-mult.htm
post #147 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant


Maybe your HS classes didn't get to that part about quality mattering more than quantity.

Anyway, I suppose I could just start giving you more since you need it:



Hmmmm.....

From the same site: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...D/can-mult.htm

Your constant barbs about my level of education are getting tiresome. Perhaps your mother is a parrot?

You can find plenty of false statements from proponents of multilingualism to copy and paste, it doesn't offer any proof and is just a statement of belief. And its wrong, and so are you.
post #148 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Perhaps your mother is a parrot?

oooooo. You sure got me there
Quote:
You can find plenty of false statements from proponents of multilingualism to copy and paste

You mean like from the Office of the Assistant Attorney General?

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...AWFORD/doj.htm

Sorry, kid, but at some point you are going to need to deal with the real world. This also includes this interesting tidbit:

Late last year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit relied upon the First Amendment to invalidate an English Only provision. In an en banc decision, Yniguez v. Arizonans for Official English, 69 F.3d 920 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. granted, 64 U.S.L.W. 3635, 3639 (U.S. Mar. 25, 1996) (No. 95-974), a divided court declared that English-only requirements in the Arizona constitution were facially overbroad in violation of the free speech rights of State government employees.
post #149 of 160
OK I did not sit down and read this whole thread as it is kind of long and I'm tired. However, I would like to add something to it.

The idea behind America was that people would come to our country because they respected and wanted to be like us. From all around the world people came here and they became Americans. They did not loose their old identity or way of like, but rather changed them to function with our ideas. America was an idea that people loved and they came here because they believed in that idea. The idea of democracy and freedom to do what you want with your like. You could do anything if you put your mind to it. Of course this was not perfect but the idea existed and that was what mattered. When Steve666 says that he believes everyone should have to learn English what he is really thinking in the back of his mind is that people should believe in what America is all about. If people do not care enough about America the learn the language spoken here this is the first step to the down fall of our country. The idea that once brought people here will be lost and we will become a 2nd or 3rd world country in time.
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post #150 of 160
even though millions and millions of foreign speaking immigrants have come to america in the last 300 years or so and english has still managed to be the national language, and even though immigration is at the lowest it's ever been, steve666 wants to legislate english as the national language.
someone is suing someone over a misinterpreted translation and steve666 thinks this would solve the problem.
post #151 of 160
Thread Starter 
>
You mean like from the Office of the Assistant Attorney General?

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/home...RAWFORD/doj.htm

Sorry, kid, but at some point you are going to need to deal with the real world. This also includes this interesting tidbit:

Late last year, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit relied upon the First Amendment to invalidate an English Only provision. In an en banc decision, Yniguez v. Arizonans for Official English, 69 F.3d 920 (9th Cir. 1995), cert. granted, 64 U.S.L.W. 3635, 3639 (U.S. Mar. 25, 1996) (No. 95-974), a divided court declared that English-only requirements in the Arizona constitution were facially overbroad in violation of the free speech rights of State government employees.<

You mean its not possible that the Assistant Attorney general has taken sides in the dispute? As for the court ruling, they rule one way then the other way on appeal. Just like the California recall, where the liberal court ruled against the recall, then was overturned by a more conservative court. They are men and women like everyone else and interpret things differently just like we do. It proves nothing but a difference of opinion. How can in be unconstitutional to have everyone speak the same language?
post #152 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Algol
OK I did not sit down and read this whole thread as it is kind of long and I'm tired. However, I would like to add something to it.

The idea behind America was that people would come to our country because they respected and wanted to be like us. From all around the world people came here and they became Americans. They did not loose their old identity or way of like, but rather changed them to function with our ideas. America was an idea that people loved and they came here because they believed in that idea. The idea of democracy and freedom to do what you want with your like. You could do anything if you put your mind to it. Of course this was not perfect but the idea existed and that was what mattered. When Steve666 says that he believes everyone should have to learn English what he is really thinking in the back of his mind is that people should believe in what America is all about. If people do not care enough about America the learn the language spoken here this is the first step to the down fall of our country. The idea that once brought people here will be lost and we will become a 2nd or 3rd world country in time.


Exactly! And the best example of this is California, where you can see a microcosm of what this country is going to be like, and God help us all. I lived in California for 10 years and it is turning into a ****ing disaster area!
post #153 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
even though millions and millions of foreign speaking immigrants have come to america in the last 300 years or so and english has still managed to be the national language, and even though immigration is at the lowest it's ever been, steve666 wants to legislate english as the national language.
someone is suing someone over a misinterpreted translation and steve666 thinks this would solve the problem.

First of all immigration is at about the highest its ever been, do you live in Wyoming?

I am solving a problem that never should have been a problem in the first place. There is no reason at all to print any govmnt form in anything other than English, so just print everything in English and theres nothing left to talk about.

On the lighter side, You and Giant might like this, something my friend emailed me:


Health Alert...

For those of you who watch what you eat... (and keep sending me health
warnings about it)

Here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know
the truth after all those conflicting medical studies:

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the Americans.

2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than
the Americans.

3. The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart
attacks than the Americans.

4. The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the Americans.

5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Americans.

CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently
what kills you.
post #154 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
You can pull links out of your ass all night long, and i can find plenty of sources on USEnglish's website that says just the opposite.

There's a subject-verb agreement error in this sentence.

Cheers
Scott
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post #155 of 160
It's really odd seeing this kid just keep going and going and going even in the face of overwhelming evidence discrediting even the most fundamental premises of his belief system.

I guess I just haven't been around teenagers in a while and forget how ridiculous they are. Well, last night I was eating a a restaurant and these two teenage girls were with one of their families, but they kept going in and out of the restaurant over and over again. Good, teenagers are weird.
post #156 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
It's really odd seeing this kid just keep going and going and going even in the face of overwhelming evidence discrediting even the most fundamental premises of his belief system.

I guess I just haven't been around teenagers in a while and forget how ridiculous they are. Well, last night I was eating a a restaurant and these two teenage girls were with one of their families, but they kept going in and out of the restaurant over and over again. Good, teenagers are weird.

Thats the best you can come up with? You're boring me. And since I'm so bored I'm going to let someone else do the talking for me:

Of course the official language movement is a part of the culture wars; the conflict between competing visions of American identity. In the early 20th century, immigrants were eager to shed their old world identities and become assimilated citizens of a nation based on the foundations of British culture and American civic identity. The immigration debate of that era was not over the core values and culture of American society - that was never in dispute - but over the ability of the European masses to assimilate.

Today, the landscape has changed. The diversity crowd challenges the idea of a common American identity and the goals of assimilation. The ethnic immigrants, or at least their self-appointed spokesmen, bring a history of resentment (even hatred) of western values and Anglo-European culture. The American Left no longer considers the tensions of American society to be between classes, but between gender and ethnic groups and group rights. The old liberal ideal of individual rights and freedom of thought is being assaulted by new ideologies that suggest rights are rooted in the group or tribe, that hate speech for the racist dominate culture must be curtailed, that ones tribal identity must be used to determine ones right to work, scholarships, and public schooling.

The multiculturalists ideal is not that of the 1930s liberal (becoming a new man, an American citizen) but of a society divided along racial and ethnic lines.

...., you confuse the progress made on civil rights and the liberal ideal, with that of the ethnic sectarians. Progress is when American society enforces equal and non-discriminatory treatment before the law (14th amendment), not when it creates racial, ethnic, and gender identity classifications and treats citizens according to their race or group. Progress is when all individuals have a right to free speech, not when they are suppressed and shouted down by tribal groups. Progress is made when immigrants learn and earn citizenship, and then assimilate into a common American identity devoted to the nations values of liberty and democracy, not when they aspire to form new entitlement groups for scholarships, welfare, etc. with alien residency rights.
post #157 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
First of all immigration is at about the highest its ever been, do you live in Wyoming?


i live in chicago (euphemism deleted),
immigration average now is about 700,000 a year, it was at it's lowest during the clinton administration.
in the early 1900 we peaked at about 8 million immigrants a year.


(edit = removed euphemism turd-burglar)
post #158 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i live in chicago (euphemism deleted),
immigration average now is about 700,000 a year, it was at it's lowest during the clinton administration.
in the early 1900 we peaked at about 8 million immigrants a year.


(edit = removed euphemism turd-burglar)

You took out the best part of your post!
turd-burglar


Immigration levels are at the highest they have been since the 1900's. Comparing them to the 1940's and on till today.
post #159 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
You took out the best part of your post!
turd-burlgar


Immigration levels are at the highest they have been since the 1900's. Comparing them to the 1940's and on till today.

you said the highest it's EVER been. and apparently immigrants in the 19th century were all virtuous and morally correct, unlike todays.
have you ever read things americans said about immigrants in the 19th century? do you have a clue.
or are you just going to play calvin-ball on this subject.
post #160 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
you said the highest it's EVER been. and apparently immigrants in the 19th century were all virtuous and morally correct, unlike todays.
have you ever read things americans said about immigrants in the 19th century? do you have a clue.
or are you just going to play calvin-ball on this subject.

Are you making a point? If you are its not very clear.
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