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California bans soft drink sales in school - Page 2

post #41 of 162
9/17/03 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman


So the devil's advocate question is, what if all the soft drink companies declare they will only sell diet soda in the schools?

No caloric concerns there.

Nick

Did you know that diet soda is even more toxic to your system than regular soda? The chemicals contained in diet soda can lead to things like liver weakness and kidney problems. The toxins stay in the body for years. Not that sugared soda is great for you, either, but to think that diet soda is somehow "healthier" is asinine.
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post #42 of 162
9/17/03 at 6:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Beardsley
I think its a good idea purely to stifle the attempt to market to kids in school. Its awful that Pepsi or Coke offer schools lucrative deals to only sell their product. Schools should be a place for the kids to learn, not another place to be bombarded with advertising. What's next some company will pay the school x amount of dollars to plaster ads on the backs of seats so the kids have to look at them all day? I'm all for not having the government overregulate things, but keeping big corporations ad compaigns out of schools is a good thing.

Yes, the article mentions corporate contracts. I know that. But that's tangential to the issue at hand. Soft drinks sales are going to be banned statewide at schools WITH or WITHOUT the contracts and marketing.
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post #43 of 162
9/17/03 at 6:42pm
the more i think about this, the worse the idea seems. schools are a place for kids to learn the right way of doing things. sell milk, sell OJ, sell other juices. but soda? it's completely worthless. by selling it thei're endorsing it. to endorse it is just wrong. it' scrap.

there's more to teaching than what goes on in the classroom.
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post #44 of 162
9/17/03 at 7:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
the more i think about this, the worse the idea seems. schools are a place for kids to learn the right way of doing things. sell milk, sell OJ, sell other juices. but soda? it's completely worthless. by selling it thei're endorsing it. to endorse it is just wrong. it' scrap.

there's more to teaching than what goes on in the classroom.

When's that last time major government level prohibition actually worked? School's a place of learning how to make choices. Let supervisors, teachers, parents and kids make those choices for themselves. Teach them what do do instead of banning the substance.

If Coke is so bad, then why shouldn't the government just ban its sale altogether...to everyone. They're looking out for us...right? It'd be in our best interests. Why not go further and ban sugary candies...Good-bye lollipops, tootsie rolls, toffee, red vines, jelly bellies... All this does is teach kids Coke is fine after school, but not during.
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post #45 of 162
9/17/03 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Did you know that diet soda is even more toxic to your system than regular soda? The chemicals contained in diet soda can lead to things like liver weakness and kidney problems. The toxins stay in the body for years. Not that sugared soda is great for you, either, but to think that diet soda is somehow "healthier" is asinine.

Relax, I said I was intentionally playing devil's advocate. People were discussing concerns with obesity and calories.

Likewise I can tell you for a fact that most of the cafeteria school food I have seen appears to have enough chemicals and preservatives in it, that twinkies would spoil faster.

We do not have soda machines available at our school (for students), but we are an elementary school.

On a curious note, do you have any links about diet soda and health concerns? I ask because I know plenty of folks who drink it. (myself included)

Nick

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post #46 of 162
9/17/03 at 8:19pm
Soup Nazi,,, err I mean Soda Nazi...

"No Soda For You"

Next thing you know kids can't have cake at birthday parties and ice cream is way way way out of the question. In the mean time nurses at local hospitals working back to back all nighter shifts drink pepsi all during the night. But that is different,,, they are in the "Health" business. While some are drinking pepsi others are outside smoking... Better write your congressman/woman. How can we allow people to make their own choices? How I ask....


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post #47 of 162
9/17/03 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Next thing you know kids can't have cake at birthday parties and ice cream is way way way out of the question.

Yeah, cause we all know from when we grew up without soda sold in school (meaning anyone in elementary school up until a few years ago) that cake and ice cream were banned as well.

Or how about not?

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post #48 of 162
9/17/03 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Yeah, cause we all know from when we grew up without soda sold in school (meaning anyone in elementary school up until a few years ago) that cake and ice cream were banned as well.

Or how about not?


There's a difference between being subject to a ban and being able to choose to not sell soft drinks to kids. That's the point I was trying to make when I started the topic. The schools didn't need the ban back then, so why should they need it now?
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post #49 of 162
9/17/03 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman

On a curious note, do you have any links about diet soda and health concerns? I ask because I know plenty of folks who drink it. (myself included)

Nick

I second this notion, I have constantly heard that many diet sodas have crap in them that is bad for you.


specifically aspartame seems to be the forerunner in unhealthy diet soda chemicals. That is, it can lead to cancer.

but I hear back-and-forths about this topic all the time, I still don't have any definitive proof either way.
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post #50 of 162
9/17/03 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
When's that last time major government level prohibition actually worked?

We're talking about a prohibition of sales, not use. You're comparing two different situations. Kids can still bring drinks with them if they so choose.
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post #51 of 162
9/17/03 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
There's a difference between being subject to a ban and being able to choose to not sell soft drinks to kids. That's the point I was trying to make when I started the topic. The schools didn't need the ban back then, so why should they need it now?

Because unlike in the past, they no longer feel it's their responsibility to help protect the health of students.
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post #52 of 162
9/17/03 at 11:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
We're talking about a prohibition of sales, not use. You're comparing two different situations. Kids can still bring drinks with them if they so choose.

Which is another chink in the armor for this bill. It makes no actual strides in combatting obesity, like it's supposed to do.
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post #53 of 162
9/17/03 at 11:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Because unlike in the past, they no longer feel it's their responsibility to help protect the health of students.

So what? Restricting sales isn't going to change anything. Kids will still drink Coke outside of the 6-7 hour window where they are at school. If it was about health, there'd be reasonable measures on the bill, like higher budgets for physical education, health, fitness, kinesiology...whatever you want to call it.

Protect our kids from soft drinks! Aieeee! If it's such a big deal, why only protect our kids? I see fat adults all over the place.
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post #54 of 162
9/18/03 at 4:54am
Anybody listen to NPR today?

Turns out this is nothing new. These rules have been in place for over a year and were mandated by a board directed by the senate which pressured Cal. to join the other 87% of schools in the nation with Soda free health initiatives.

Also the soda provision is just that, a provision. There are more then 72 articles to the legislation and only 2 deal with soda sales. The rest deal with numerous other healthy food issues in the schools.

Also less then 7% of all middle schools in Cal. have soda machines.

These are some interesting things I didn't know as part of the discussion yesterday.
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post #55 of 162
9/18/03 at 5:34am
Thread Starter 
Not Unlike Myself...

...No. No other state has such a law. Whether a school in Oregon, New York, whereever decides to ban soft drink sales is--guess what?--entirely up to the school/district.

I mean, sheesh, the first paragraph of the article is:
"California will become the first state to ban soft drink sales to elementary and junior high school students and to require school board approval of other junk food vending contracts, as it tries to take a leadership role in fighting childhood obesity."

First state? That sounds like something NEW to me.

And no, The senate bill authored by Rep. Deborah Ortiz does not deal with anything other than drink and food sales. Get your facts straight.

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/..._enrolled.html

I bet Rep. Ortiz is overweight. If she doesn't know what measures will work in public schools, she probably doesn't know what will work in her own home. If I were a middle schooler, I'd start a secret soft drink speakeasy behind the gym. I'd make a fucton of cash.
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post #56 of 162
9/18/03 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
...No. No other state has such a law. Whether a school in Oregon, New York, whereever decides to ban soft drink sales is--guess what?--entirely up to the school/district.

First state? That sounds like something NEW to me.
Get your facts straight.

I didn't say it was a multi state ban. NPR said that 87% of nationwide schools already had individually decided to provide health initiatives. So you are correct, it would be the first 'state wide' health law about soda, however it wouldn't be anything new.

Sorry you live in Cal. Sorry you feel you gotta gripe. But chief the fact is that soda free is a positive health change. If you wanna nit pick the law and worry about big brother, there are much greater issues. (ala Patriot Act business)

This is a *ucked up state full of *ucked up people who want to get healthy and set a precident for other states to follow. This isn't some subversion of the constitution, this isn't some personal attack, it's just a provision of an eat healthy campaign which has been on the table in the senate for ages.... (almost 5 years...) I'm not talking about the same bill you are. I'm talking about the general health guidelines which comes up once every 5 years to goveren national food health issues in the school.

No need to get so personal mate, it's just a discussion.
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post #57 of 162
9/18/03 at 5:59am
yeah, i should qualifiy what i posted by saying that although i think it's a great idea to get soda out of schools, passing laws to ban them is rather retarded. the last thing this country, or any state for that matter needs is more laws. just don't sell them yourself, and educate folks as to why you think that consumption of soda is a bad thing.

these kinds of laws are just mental masterbation to let people delude themselves into thinking things are just fine because a law says so.
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post #58 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:02am
In the spirit of alcimedes, and universal brotherhood. I will qualify what I have said.

I don't see a big deal here either way so I guess I'll just back out since I don't wanna hard line with other members.

Soda is soda is soda is soda. And California is.... well... California.
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post #59 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:07am
Thread Starter 
It's not about big brother. I'm sure their intentions are admirable, but their short-sightedness is astonishing. If you want to talk about other bills, start your own thread. I penned the title of this topic for a reason. I'm talking about the soft drink sales bill and nothing else. I have gripes about other political issues too, but I don't have to talk about them all at once, especially not in this thread.

Yes, healthy eating habits are dandy. I bet I'm pretty healthy as far as AI forumgoers go. I also drink a lot of soda, eat sugary candy and large slabs of charred red meat.

I'm primarily griping about the stupidity in Sacramento.
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post #60 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
I'm primarily griping about the stupidity in Sacramento.

Eugene, you are by far one of my favorite members.

That just reminded me of a funny quote on another board I'm on...

"I hate Sacramento for the same reason that Americans hate Nigeria: Its full of boring stupid people who piss me off."
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post #61 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
So what? Restricting sales isn't going to change anything. Kids will still drink Coke outside of the 6-7 hour window where they are at school. If it was about health, there'd be reasonable measures on the bill, like higher budgets for physical education, health, fitness, kinesiology...whatever you want to call it.

Protect our kids from soft drinks! Aieeee! If it's such a big deal, why only protect our kids? I see fat adults all over the place.

Obesity is thought to have just recently passed smoking as the number one cause of death in the US. Around 350,000 Americans die each year from obesity-related causes. That's two 9/11s per week, every week, each year, and growing. This is not some silly little minor cause. Again, we're talking about the number one cause of death in the country. And children are the demographic that's growing fattest fastest.

It's wonderful that you're not overweight. But if you think that the easy availability of cheap high-calorie food plays no role in America's obesity, then you're just not thinking.
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post #62 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell

It's wonderful that you're not overweight. But if you think that the easy availability of cheap high-calorie food plays no role in America's obesity, then you're just not thinking.

And I repeat, then why doesn't California set a precedent and ban the sale of food which don't meet a set of requirements...calorie/fat ratio, saturated/unsaturated fat ratio, etc? The focus on kids is bullshit. There are plenty of fat adults walking around that could benefit from this! We don't stop learning as adults. Why give up after a certain age?

Outlaw Hostess Cupcakes, Coke and Funyuns in California!
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post #63 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
And I repeat, then why doesn't California set a precedent and ban the sale of food which don't meet a set of requirements...calorie/fat ratio, saturated/unsaturated fat ratio, etc? The focus on kids is bullshit. There are plenty of fat adults walking around that could benefit from this! We don't stop learning as adults. Why give up after a certain age?

Unhealthy eating habits are formed during childhood!
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post #64 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
Outlaw Hostess Cupcakes, Coke and Funyuns in California!

In schools? OKAY!
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post #65 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Unhealthy eating habits are formed during childhood!

But if the unhealthful food isn't available, what happens!?

Unhealthy eating habits are formed during childhood, but that doesn't exclude adulthood. That also doesn't exclude the reversal of such eating habits later in life. What better way to solve the obesity problem by banning candy, soft drinks, and other junk food altogether!?
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post #66 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
But if the unhealthful food isn't available, what happens!?

Children don't consume freely available sugary soda in schools. They consume whatever their parents allow them to at home. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Actually, this ban doesn't go far enough. It allows for sugary juices that could actually have MORE sugar!
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post #67 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Children don't consume freely available sugary soda in schools. They consume whatever their parents allow them to at home. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Actually, this ban doesn't go far enough. It allows for sugary juices that could actually have MORE sugar!

Totally agree! Ban ban ban! No more sugar...AT ALL...none whatsoever. No sugar or fat shall make it across the California border!
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post #68 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
And I repeat, then why doesn't California set a precedent and ban the sale of food which don't meet a set of requirements...calorie/fat ratio, saturated/unsaturated fat ratio, etc? The focus on kids is bullshit. There are plenty of fat adults walking around that could benefit from this! We don't stop learning as adults. Why give up after a certain age?

Outlaw Hostess Cupcakes, Coke and Funyuns in California!

Why are you comparing this law that bans soda in schools with a fictional ban on soda in all of California?

Is the anti-soda law one small part of a larger health bill or not?
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post #69 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
Totally agree! Ban ban ban! No more sugar...AT ALL...none whatsoever. No sugar or fat shall make it across the California border!

Why, that would be a bit extreme. Wouldn't it, Eugene?
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post #70 of 162
9/18/03 at 6:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
Why are you comparing this law that bans soda in schools with a fictional ban on soda in all of California?

Is the anti-soda law one small part of a larger health bill or not?

Because I've been enlightened! This law doesn't do enough. I mean, how can we expect schools AND parents to do the right thing? We shouldn't need to make that choice at all. And a statewide ban on the sale of soft drinks anywhere would obviously completely solve the problem. It's the next step!
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post #71 of 162
9/18/03 at 7:16am
Woohoo!
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post #72 of 162
9/18/03 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
yeah, i should qualifiy what i posted by saying that although i think it's a great idea to get soda out of schools, passing laws to ban them is rather retarded. the last thing this country, or any state for that matter needs is more laws. just don't sell them yourself, and educate folks as to why you think that consumption of soda is a bad thing.

"educate folks as to why you think that consumption of soda is a bad thing" LOL Why educate when you can dictate and legislate???

Since we are all so stupid and dumbed down I think the real (REAL) solution liberals could give us is to tax people at 100% of their income and make all of our choices for us. The liberal "Hitlers" can design every aspect of our lives according to what they (the liberal "Hitlers") feel is correct. No that is not a bit extreme as ShawnJ would ask. It is not extreme as you are just not liberal enough if you think that is extreme. Remember it is for the Kids..... Ahhhhhh the lovely kids........ I mean we all know "liberals know best" and as for the rest of us... we are just dumbed down ignorance in need of liberal influence in our lives. The liberal Hitlers can also choose what we do or do not drive and those bikes can be produced by liberal "Enrons" Our Soy-burgers can also by made by another liberal "Enron". All freedoms are deemed selfish and not needed in the new liberal paradigm. Remember the liberal hitlers are the ones in power and if they so choose we may all have blond hair and blue eyes if they so deem it "good for society". Out the window goes individual liberty and in comes the new liberal paradigm. Welcome to hell.

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post #73 of 162
9/18/03 at 10:17am
Why not just sell soda and crack in schools?
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post #74 of 162
9/18/03 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
the more i think about this, the worse the idea seems. schools are a place for kids to learn the right way of doing things. sell milk, sell OJ, sell other juices. but soda? it's completely worthless. by selling it thei're endorsing it. to endorse it is just wrong. it' scrap.

there's more to teaching than what goes on in the classroom.

Yeah, but soon you wont be able to get dairy either, because "it will offend the lactose intolerant"..(hey, if they ban peanuts.. and soda, and smoking, and living free, what else they can they do.
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post #75 of 162
9/18/03 at 11:14am
Hmm, anyone here remember Demolition Man(the movie?).. seems some parts are coming reality. this is offensive, so banned, this is not considered healthy, hense illegal... hmmmm, I just hope that all restaraunts dont become taco bell...
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post #76 of 162
9/18/03 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by The General
Hmm, anyone here remember Demolition Man(the movie?).. seems some parts are coming reality. this is offensive, so banned, this is not considered healthy, hense illegal... hmmmm, I just hope that all restaraunts dont become taco bell...

My pellet tasted wonderful, and yours?

Seriously. It's a socialist concept to the extreme. Reduce the choice. Have the government control all forms of distribution. I thought we were past this wrinkle in History...
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post #77 of 162
9/18/03 at 4:51pm
We were never allowed to have softdrinks, or leave school, or have bags from mcdonalds or other fast food places on it. Like a pizza box.

I snuck a pizza in my senior year and was threatened with not being to attend my graduation ceremony.

Never was allowed to wear any exposed legs, like in shorts.
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post #78 of 162
9/18/03 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JRC
We were never allowed to have softdrinks, or leave school, or have bags from mcdonalds or other fast food places on it. Like a pizza box.

I snuck a pizza in my senior year and was threatened with not being to attend my graduation ceremony.

Never was allowed to wear any exposed legs, like in shorts.

One day you'll thank your parents for sending you to a reform school.

Seriously, though, what kind of sadistic school did you attend?
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post #79 of 162
9/18/03 at 8:00pm
Eugene is right guys. Let this one slide, then you let another slide, and another and another. This is just to satiate parents into thinking that now their kids will be healthy, never mind that they're smoking cigs and pot, and drinking beer on the weekends (yes, middle school kids do this stuff.).
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post #80 of 162
9/18/03 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
Eugene is right guys. Let this one slide, then you let another slide, and another and another. This is just to satiate parents into thinking that now their kids will be healthy, never mind that they're smoking cigs and pot, and drinking beer on the weekends (yes, middle school kids do this stuff.).

There's a difference between stopping sales and stopping usage. No one here wants to acknowledge it though. Lemmings.
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