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Son of Next PowerMac with up to 2.5GHz 970?

post #1 of 183
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post #2 of 183
I can't see the 970 being debuted any later than MWNY. The G4 has reached it's limit and people are desperate for this new processor. I think IBM can and will deliver these chips in time for an introduction and we can only hope Apple will have the machines ready to go July 16.
post #3 of 183
The real question would be: is Apple going to announce actual machines or the intention of using the 970? Apple in the past has at least implied what was coming like the inclusion of Firewire in all machines and the intention of using the G4. I think it depends on just how close they are to being ready for release. Hopefully the optimists are correct and Apple will be ready with real hardware soon after MWNY.
post #4 of 183
I agree, it would be great to have these new machines (970's) sooner rather than later, especially when the new iMovie update requests 700 MHz G3 or better. I bet that upsets a healthy portion of mac users. I'm using an iBook 600 MHz, and it's really slow, so the sooner they'll give us the 970's, the sooner we can all migrate to the new Apple processor. By the way, does anyone know what happened that caused such a massive delay in the intro of the 17"? Did a ship sink? Civil War? lol What was it that screwed everything up, and how many people are now hanging from rafters as a result of the screw up? I know Uncle Steve is hardly a pleasant man when things go wrong..
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post #5 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>I can't see the 970 being debuted any later than MWNY. The G4 has reached it's limit and people are desperate for this new processor. I think IBM can and will deliver these chips in time for an introduction and we can only hope Apple will have the machines ready to go July 16.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If Steve can justify a three month wait for the 17" PowerBook, then he can certainly justify a MWNY 970 launch with October delivery.

This is precisely what I think Apple must (and will) do.
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post #6 of 183
post #7 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Green:
<strong>I know Uncle Steve is hardly a pleasant man when things go wrong..</strong><hr></blockquote>

I heard that there was this Steve who was eating at a diner.Â* And when some dude dropped a spoon Steve killed the whole town.
post #8 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>Did you miss my thread on precisely that?

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003109" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003109</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, Fran I guess I did, my bad. It's obvious though that we are in complete agreement on this. 970's must be announced at MWNY even if they don't ship until Christmas.
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post #9 of 183
[quote]Yes, Fran I guess I did, my bad. It's obvious though that we are in complete agreement on this. 970's must be announced at MWNY even if they don't ship until Christmas.<hr></blockquote>

Exactly.
post #10 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>I can't see the 970 being debuted any later than MWNY. The G4 has reached it's limit and people are desperate for this new processor. I think IBM can and will deliver these chips in time for an introduction and we can only hope Apple will have the machines ready to go July 16.</strong><hr></blockquote>

An educated guess says you're right!
post #11 of 183
This is an off topic reply to T'hain concerning the PS3 in the now closed thread-

"Get real. You expect Sony to release a console to blow every mainfrain off the planet away.."

[quote]
PS3 will be as powerful as 50 Dual G4 PowerMacs!

It's still 2 years away, but it will be worth the wait. Sony's PS3 will be able to do 1 Teraflop, or about about as many gigaflops as 50 of the latest Apple Dual G4 PowerMacs.

Just think, if Apple decides to switch from the rumored 970 to Sony's PS3 CPU in 2005? A PowerMac that can do 1 Teraflop! It makes you froth. That would easily smoke anything Intel plans until 2010.

Tim Sweeney, chief executive of Epic Games in Raleigh, N.C., said that programming games for the PS 3 will be far more complicated than for the PS 2 because the programmer will have to keep track of all the tasks being performed by dozens of processors.

``I can't imagine how you will actually program it,'' he said. ``You do all these tasks in parallel, but the results of one task may affect the results of another task.''

But Sony and its partners believe that if they can coordinate those processors at maximum efficiency, the PS 3 will be able to process a trillion math operations per second -- the equivalent of 100 Intel Pentium 4 chips and 1,000 times faster than processing power of the PS 2.

<a href="http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/5311288.htm" target="_blank">http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/5311288.htm</a>

<hr></blockquote>

So yea, I guess I do. So am I real now?

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: KidRed ]</p>
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post #12 of 183
My 2 cents (Canadian currency):

1. The 970 involves a major architecture change i.e. taking the platform from 32 to 64 bit. The logical question raised is what software will benefit from this and what new possibilities are here that weren't before.

This is a developer issue. Apple will also need software to drive 970 sales (that is, from non-AI folks) so there has to be a gap between announce and delivery to allow software makers to update or code entirely new software.

Thus the 970 will be announced in May at WWDC, demoed (with bakeoff) at MWNY and delivered in September.

And since 64-bit change is helpful to databases, expect 10.3 to be shown as well, where the Finder becomes a giant complicated database.


2. Kidred; I'm no expert, but I think you're missing the difference between a Console CPU and a Computer CPU.

One is built primarily to throw frames on the screen at a blistering pace (largely so that would-be teenage deviants can hone their shooting skills.) The other is a more general purpose unit, used to process a more diverse set of commands.

Apple can't simply plug in a PS3 CPU and make the PowerMac faster.
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post #13 of 183
I think that the deadline for the PPC 970 powermac will be MWSF 2004. However if the rumors of good yields of the PPC 970 are true, there is no reason to see this ship sooner. An announce in july and a release in september sound realistic.
post #14 of 183
On my whising list

10.3 with a journaling file system and 64 bit and hopefully case avare not just case preserving, and of definitively multi chanel sound support

Applications and OS support for filenames longer than 31 letters

Dual 970 that are way too fast

Having them aviable in mid october would fit my shopping habits
post #15 of 183
I think that we should speak of the spec of the mobo. I expect these new features :

- serial ATA disk. Serial ATA is very apple like, with his philisophy of plug and play. Serial ATA disk (the first disk avalaible) are faster than ATA 133, and requires less work from the CPU.

- USB 2 : Apple claim it's unnecessary, but there is many peripherics who work better on USB 2 : so i wish that Apple will implementate it.
post #16 of 183
A small selection of things I hate:

1) Serial ATA
2) 10GB Ethernet
3) USB 2.0

Why? They all have one thing in common. They are inhibiting FireWire as the single high speed wired connection standard.

FireWire r0x0r, these sUx0r.

Barto
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post #17 of 183
Don't know why, but I believe these guys.

<a href="http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000046.php" target="_blank">MacWhispers.</a>

Intro July, shipping "late summer."
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post #18 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Barto:
<strong>
FireWire r0x0r, these sUx0r.</strong><hr></blockquote>

MmMMmm... Looks at recharging iPod... MmMMmm...

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>This is an off topic reply to T'hain concerning the PS3 in the now closed thread-

"Get real. You expect Sony to release a console to blow every mainfrain off the planet away.."



So yea, I guess I do. So am I real now?</strong><hr></blockquote>

[quote]Originally posted by Frank777:
<strong>
2. Kidred; I'm no expert, but I think you're missing the difference between a Console CPU and a Computer CPU.

One is built primarily to throw frames on the screen at a blistering pace (largely so that would-be teenage deviants can hone their shooting skills.) The other is a more general purpose unit, used to process a more diverse set of commands.

Apple can't simply plug in a PS3 CPU and make the PowerMac faster.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No you arent!
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
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post #19 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong><a href="http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000046.php" target="_blank">MacWhispers.</a>

Intro July, shipping "late summer."</strong><hr></blockquote>

3 to 4 months claimed by MacWhispers turn into JulyAugust. So September seems the most likely date for mass production and, probably, even shipment of PowerMacs. Somebody on these boards hoped they would come sooner.
And it does seem like new CPUs, because PPC 7457 is said to be a simple drop-in replacement for current G4s.
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post #20 of 183
First of all, 3 months from now is June.

Second of all, when did we start listening to MacWhispers? They don't have very much credibility you know.
post #21 of 183
[quote]Intro July, shipping "late summer."<hr></blockquote>

Is that "late summer" in the same sense that it is now "early summer" ?
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post #22 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
<strong>Don't know why, but I believe these guys.

<a href="http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000046.php" target="_blank">MacWhispers.</a>

Intro July, shipping "late summer."</strong><hr></blockquote>

If this is true, then the motherboard design has been finalized and the bidding shouldn't take too long, should it? I imagine the motherboard manufacturers have had prototypes running for quite some time.

Now, would that be rectangular motherboards or round motherboards or er ummm maybe both
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Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #23 of 183
Looks like July...but I'll be insanely anxious and at my wit's end by then Macwhispers has an OEM prediction on the Mobo. I thought Macwhispers had stopped that product release-prediction-by-OEM method at the iPod debacle, but I guess that they haven't hid in their closets yet.
post #24 of 183
Some are expecting a new case / enclosure for the G5 / 970 PowerMac. I don't think so. The existing one was built for the IBM 970, and the present PowerMacs are just its shake down cruise, to get any mechanical bugs fixed. Getting the case designed early was a good strategy. Apple will be busy enough with the new motherboard and chip set. There will likely be some cosmetic changes to the case, so people can easily identify the G5 PowerMac.

Edit: Spelling

[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: snoopy ]</p>
post #25 of 183
July?!? Eek!

Must..control..soaring..expectations...

Whew. That was close. Thank goodness MacWhispers has an accuracy only matched by MOSR.

The 970's at 1.4, 1.6 & 1.8 GHz for January 2004, .09 970's at up to 2.5 GHz for 9-12 months after that.
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post #26 of 183
Iit would be nice to have "970" applied to the 970 case like the G3 was applied to the Blue&White G3. It would look nice.
post #27 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Frank777:
<strong>My 2 cents (Canadian currency):

2. Kidred; I'm no expert, but I think you're missing the difference between a Console CPU and a Computer CPU.

One is built primarily to throw frames on the screen at a blistering pace (largely so that would-be teenage deviants can hone their shooting skills.) The other is a more general purpose unit, used to process a more diverse set of commands.

Apple can't simply plug in a PS3 CPU and make the PowerMac faster.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That wasn't what i was talking about. I meerly stated in the now closed thread that the PS3 was speced to be capable of a teraflop and T'hain said i was crazy. So i posted the link. I never related the info to Apple in any way. (the comparssion to the 50 powermacs is just that, a relative comparrison in no way specualting Apple using anything)

[quote]Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch:
<strong>

No you arent! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Guess you don't read well. Otherwise you wouldv'e known that Fran has no idea what I was talking about. By quoting his reply shows you have no idea what I'm talking about either. So, I made a statement that was true and backed it up with evidence and you still have no clue.

I am, thanks for playing.
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post #28 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>Looks like July...but I'll be insanely anxious and at my wit's end by then Macwhispers has an OEM prediction on the Mobo. I thought Macwhispers had stopped that product release-prediction-by-OEM method at the iPod debacle, but I guess that they haven't hid in their closets yet. </strong><hr></blockquote>

They aren't predicting anything. They only stated production is about to begin and takes 3-4 months to acheive. They never said MWNY or july release. That's what they stopped doing.
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post #29 of 183
They said that their iPod prediction was their first- and last-release date prediction. Hmmmmm...
post #30 of 183
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ensign Pulver:
[qb]

Glad to see someone is tackling the rogue apostrophe!
Grammar? What grammar!

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: John E C ]

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: John E C ]</p>
post #31 of 183
Macwhispers have access to production info. In this sense they are stating facts. They have stopped doing 'Mosr'.

Why? Because only Apple know when stuff is really going to ship.

I think that makes them a very credible rumour sight. They aren't making promises or rash predictions. They stopped (and never really tried to do that...) 'predictions'.

I kinda found their approach a sobering one.

I'll give them that.

Anyway, July? Wow. I'll take that Demo' at New York.

I just think this one has got too big.

10.3 and 970. 64 bit.

Apple? Taking no prisoners.

I just hope its the 1.8-2.5 and not the 1.4-1.8.

This is Apple's best chance in years to arrest the slide and go back on offence. (Gee I sounded American there for a sec'...)

Lemon Bon Bon

Can you imagine the looks on x86 mhz-olites when the 2.5 gig 970 blisters past the 3. gig Pentium 4? And out...even before the Athlon 64?

Gosh. Dreamland?

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
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post #32 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>Iit would be nice to have "970" applied to the 970 case like the G3 was applied to the Blue&White G3. It would look nice.</strong><hr></blockquote>


:eek: NO! That smurf case was fuuuuugly.
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post #33 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by 709:
<strong>


:eek: NO! That smurf case was fuuuuugly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, it was a Lifesaver case. No, a Sweet Tart case, no a Jolly Rancher case..
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post #34 of 183
[quote]Can you imagine the looks on x86 mhz-olites when the 2.5 gig 970 blisters past the 3. gig Pentium 4?<hr></blockquote>

Easily, total boredom. The Macintosh is so completely irrelevant to the real x86 fanatics that one might be talk about the Power5, for all the relevance it would have to them.

It's not the x86-olites that are of any concern. It's the Mac purchasers and would-be purchasers that Apple must cultivate. Apple shouldn't be planning its releases based on the need to provide ammunition in the platform wars. It must meet the needs of those who are actually using, or are going to use Macintoshes.

My recollection is that the old saw goes "to convince the majority of people to switch to something "out of the ordinary", you need to be 10 times better. It's only at that point that the perceived gains outweigh the massive inertia that most human beings have in trying something new."

Luckily, Apple is not yet completely out of the mainstream. But don't look for Apple to suddenly surge back even if it's twice as fast as a PC. However, it would be nice to slowly edge that marketshare back up and stop the slow bleeding.
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post #35 of 183
While you are at the request line, don't forget to ask for PCI Express or some similar high speed bus for a replacement to the current mix of PCI & AGP slots. And a bunch of them.
post #36 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by os10geek:
<strong>Iit would be nice to have "970" applied to the 970 case like the G3 was applied to the Blue&White G3. It would look nice.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would rather see "G5" on the case, just for the tradition. As for the case not changing, I say that it WILL change, just because Apple will want people to look at their new crazy fast machine and think "WoW! I want one of those" just by looking at it.
post #37 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by snoopy:
<strong>Some are expecting a new case / enclosure for the G5 / 970 PowerMac. I don't think so. The existing one was built for the IBM 970, and the present PowerMacs are just its shake down cruse, to get any mechanical bugs fixed. Getting the case designed early was good strategy. Apple will be busy enough with the new motherboard and chip set. There will likely be some cosmetic changes to the case, so people can easily identify the G5 PowerMac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't forget that most of the case changes in the current models that we might consider to be "970 ready" are internal. They could easily change the plastic mouldings and colouring of the exterior for a fresh new look. I hope they totally revamp the look of the enclosure for the 970! :cool:
post #38 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by snoopy:
<strong>Some are expecting a new case / enclosure for the G5 / 970 PowerMac. I don't think so. The existing one was built for the IBM 970, and the present PowerMacs are just its shake down cruse, to get any mechanical bugs fixed. Getting the case designed early was good strategy. Apple will be busy enough with the new motherboard and chip set. There will likely be some cosmetic changes to the case, so people can easily identify the G5 PowerMac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, the last casee design was for the G4 because it ran so hot. Also, Apple will not just change something kinor for the chip that saves their ass, sells like the original iMac and gets the their respect back. The internas may stay (frame) but the outside will change. The current towers don't match anything, they barely compliment the displays. Such a new and revelotionary chip and next gen tech for Apple will not just get a face plate change. Especially if this is unveiled at MWNY with all the press.
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post #39 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by Borborygmi:
<strong>

I would rather see "G5" on the case, just for the tradition. As for the case not changing, I say that it WILL change, just because Apple will want people to look at their new crazy fast machine and think "WoW! I want one of those" just by looking at it.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


I don't think the G5 PowerMac will need a new case to help it sell. Cosmetic changes to easily identify it as a G5 (or IBM 970) is all we will get, IMO. Look at it as a business decision. Why put resources into an all new design if it will not mean many more sales? I think it was a good strategy to do a new enclosure, or case, early. For one thing, it let Apple get the kinks out, like fan noise maybe, while production volume is low. I'm sure there are more important things for Apple's mechanical engineers to work on right now. So, some folks may be disappointed. I'm betting Apple does what makes the most business sense.
post #40 of 183
[quote]Originally posted by MartianMatt:
<strong>

Don't forget that most of the case changes in the current models that we might consider to be "970 ready" are internal. They could easily change the plastic mouldings and colouring of the exterior for a fresh new look. I hope they totally revamp the look of the enclosure for the 970! :cool:

</strong><hr></blockquote>


We are saying the same thing. I consider the design to be the internal layout, structure and cooling. This is engineering. The outside appearance is industrial design, and that is what I referred to as cosmetic changes in my original post.
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