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Quality control issues with new PowerBooks...particularly the 15"? - Page 9

post #321 of 590
10/23/03 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
I had to show them Film's picture because mine isn't that bad. They were pretty chagrined.

I'm honored...
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post #322 of 590
10/23/03 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
Got it back on the 17th. Spots started showing up yesterday morning, the 22. Checking right now.... I still only see #3 (which is high in the middle), but I'm sure the others will come on eventually.

A week was long enough to make me feel safe. But not so.

My rep is coming by (!?) after lunch today.

I think I might see two, but I have to look really really hard, and in the right light, and brightness and background. If it doesn't get any worse I will be happy with it as is. But I'm afraid it probably worsen.

(sigh) I don't know what I'm going to do in that case. Wait for a repair, try to get an exchange for a different model...

Damn Apple. Too bad I like this machine way too much. The 12" is too small and 17" too big. This one is just right.

-Spyky
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post #323 of 590
10/23/03 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Spyky
I think I might see two, but I have to look really really hard, and in the right light, and brightness and background. If it doesn't get any worse I will be happy with it as is. But I'm afraid it probably worsen.

(sigh) I don't know what I'm going to do in that case. Wait for a repair, try to get an exchange for a different model...

Damn Apple. Too bad I like this machine way too much. The 12" is too small and 17" too big. This one is just right.

-Spyky

I'm glad I got to speak with my rep in person. He knows now I'm not a nut, knows that I like my PB, but also knows I use other machines, and I will give up G4s/G5s if it is cost-effective in either time or money. He also knows that we are interested in building a cluster here, and he has my ITO intersted in enterprise HW.... Our campus network has been brought to a crawl this month by unabated infestations of Win machines.

He told me that in the G5 clusters they are setting up, they are using iPods to image the HDs, and the PIs get to keep an iPod or two (for these backup and imaging purposes only, of course). After dealing with the way Solaris "works" in the same situation, I couldn't help salivating.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
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1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #324 of 590
10/24/03 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
According to the Apple after-saes rep I talked to a few hours ago, BTO products can be returned aswell within the 10-day period. In the UK at least. No questions asked.

Don't know about the UK but here's what's what's on the US site

Quote:
Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:

. #1 Product that is custom configured to your specifications
. #2 Opened memory
. #3 Opened software
. #4 Electronic software downloads
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #325 of 590
10/24/03 at 7:41am
I don't see how an option offered on their site can be considered "built to your specifications"... it's still THEIR specifications, your just choosing from a list of options.

I bought the 5400 rpm drive, and so had to return the unit for repair twice. I resent the fact I boght a new machine 'off the shelf' - because it was offered as such, I didn't ask for anything that wasn't already represented as available by Apple.

I also can't believe you have absolutely no recourse should you not be satisfied with your purchase. Surely consumer rights have something to say about this.
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post #326 of 590
10/24/03 at 8:18am
Damn straight. MY "specifications" include a G5 and an LCD with NO WHITE SPOTS!!!
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post #327 of 590
10/24/03 at 10:41am
...this is the thread that would not end... it just goes on and on, my friends....

OK, clearly too much time spent with my kids.

I had a couple interesting conversations today. I called Apple EDU again to log my reappearance of spots. I was expecting to have to send it in again for a repair, but I was going to wait until November (or whenever I hear the issue is permanently fixed). They offered me a replacement! Plus, I wouldn't have to send my current CPU back first. Much more convenient. I believe that the fact that my U officially owns the machine, along with the unsuccessful repair is responsible for this. I'll take them up on this, but I will wait until I can be assured that the production line has made the necessary changes.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #328 of 590
10/24/03 at 11:58am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Well, my 15" showed up today.

+ No white spots! (Yet) Hooray!

- 10.2.7??

*sigh*

1 for 2...
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #329 of 590
10/24/03 at 12:09pm
Thread Starter 
Why is that bad? Can't you update it to 10.2.8 via Software Update? What am I missing?

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post #330 of 590
10/24/03 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Well, my 15" showed up today.

+ No white spots! (Yet) Hooray!

- 10.2.7??

*sigh*

1 for 2...

Mine also arrived today, no white spots yet and thankfully no dead pixels that I can see.

OS 10.2 also, Oh well $19.95 won't hurt to bad.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #331 of 590
10/24/03 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag
Don't know about the UK but here's what's what's on the US site

Well, it must be different in the UK. Today I phoned up Apple After-Sales UK and organised for a replacement BTO (5400RPM) PB to be sent to me. There were no questions asked. I said there was a defect with the screen (bad pixels - not white spots), I gave them a number I had gotten from Apple Technical Support, and BAM!!! New BTO PB in the process of being sent to me - "top Priority" because it is in lieu of a defective machine (and was within the 10-day return period).

It is all at no cost to myself. I might even be able to avoid being Macless for too long because I get to come to a separate agreement with TNT as to when they pick up my defective PB. This process, as the Rep kept saying, is independent of Apple UK and they do NOT demand that TNT get the defective PB from the customer within a certain time (though I assume you can't take the piss and leave it for weeks on end).

Is this really an example of reasonable, responsible and clear customer service from Apple (UK)??!!!

... Hell really has frozen over.

You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #332 of 590
10/24/03 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag
Mine also arrived today, no white spots yet and thankfully no dead pixels that I can see.

Give it a few days...not to worry you...but the white spots don't show up until 5-7 days after you turn her on. Sucks I know...but whatever.
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post #333 of 590
10/24/03 at 1:46pm
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Why is that bad? Can't you update it to 10.2.8 via Software Update? What am I missing?


10.3.

It's out today.

People have received retail boxed orders as of two days ago.

My PB was shipped on Tuesday.

It would have been nice to have had Panther already installed, you know?

I'm not so concerned about the nickle-and-dime-us-to-death-you-greedy-bastards $20, but the time involved in migrating. :/
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #334 of 590
10/24/03 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 
Oh, I see. Yes, I KNOW "Panther is out today", but I thought you had some sort of 10.2.7 vs. 10.2.8 issue.

I wasn't even thinking in terms of Panther.

Sorry.

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post #335 of 590
10/25/03 at 8:14am
My PB came back last Friday and had spots again by Tuesday.

I called AppleCare with the intent just to make sure they recorded that the spots are back, not with the intent to send it back in right away. Well, they put me on the phone with a "senior tech"/"second tier support" person who acted very concerned that they had reappeared. He assured me that they would get them fixed for certain this time. When I asked him how he knew they would fix it for sure, he said that they have a newer LCD to put in than what they had put in it last week. The tech told me that since I'm an higher ed customer and because this is the second time around, they would put a high priority code on the repair and I should get it back in 2-5 days (versus 5-7 days the last time). So, maybe I'm a sucker, but I agreed to send my PB back to them next week.

The saga continues . . .
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post #336 of 590
10/25/03 at 8:18am
Ooo. Sounds promising pour moi if they really do treat higher-ed ppl as a priority. I've started the process of getting my PB replaced...
You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #337 of 590
10/25/03 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally posted by Neandertal
My PB came back last Friday and had spots again by Tuesday.

I called AppleCare with the intent just to make sure they recorded that the spots are back, not with the intent to send it back in right away. Well, they put me on the phone with a "senior tech"/"second tier support" person who acted very concerned that they had reappeared. He assured me that they would get them fixed for certain this time. When I asked him how he knew they would fix it for sure, he said that they have a newer LCD to put in than what they had put in it last week. The tech told me that since I'm an higher ed customer and because this is the second time around, they would put a high priority code on the repair and I should get it back in 2-5 days (versus 5-7 days the last time). So, maybe I'm a sucker, but I agreed to send my PB back to them next week.

The saga continues . . .

Hey, they offered me a new machine. Also higher Ed, institutional purchase (was yours "for yourself"?). I'm waiting until things clear up for certain, though.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #338 of 590
10/25/03 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally posted by machem
Hey, they offered me a new machine. Also higher Ed, institutional purchase (was yours "for yourself"?). I'm waiting until things clear up for certain, though.

Mine was a personal purchase, but I suspect that I could have pushed for a replacement since I made the original call within the 10 day return period. The Apple Tech was very apologetic was very assuring that the problem would be solved this time. But as I said in my last message, I'm probably a sucker.
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post #339 of 590
10/25/03 at 6:13pm
Oi! Keep this thread up-to-date. I want to know what's going on with the 15inchers! \
You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #340 of 590
10/25/03 at 6:22pm
had my 15" back for nearly 2 weeks now. No sign of the spots, apart from a really subtle one to the left of the centre, but you have to concentrate to see it.

Just installed Panther and my startup time has been slashed - 14 spins of the spokes instead of 54!

Only thing annoying me now is the case seems to be a little sloppy on the right side above the CD slot. I can press down on the metal and it moves, unlike the left side.
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post #341 of 590
10/25/03 at 6:53pm
I did a little shopping on 5th Avenue today and popped into both DataVision and CompUSA to check out the 15" AlBook. Unfortunately, the 15" AlBook display models in BOTH stores had the white spots. Prior to today, I also checked out the Apple Stores in SoHo and Menlo NJ, and the same thing, they all had the white spots. Some were less obvious than others, but they were there.

Another thing that annoyed the hell out of me was that almost all the PC Notebooks in DataVision and CompUSA had noticeably brighter and richer displays with well saturated colors and no 'clouding' or yellowing at the edges compared to the PowerBooks. The PC Notebooks were Sony, Toshiba, Compaq and Fujitsu. Their displays were positively amazing. Now I don't know about Toshiba and Fujitsu, but I know that Sony and Compaq do NOT make their own displays, so I am wondering why they are so different if Apple is using the same manufacturers?

Ironically, an older TiBook (1GHz) had a better display than the current AlBooks (and there was a 900MHz iBook with a nicer 12" display as well). The 15" Al was nice (despite the spots), but not a jaw dropper, and the 17" was a bit washed out. Is Apple cutting corners in the wrong places? Or, maybe it's the drivers, or the lack of a higher resolution? The thing is, one wouldn't really know or notice until you see them side by side with other notebooks out there, including other (and sometimes older) Macs.
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post #342 of 590
10/27/03 at 10:05am
Patchouli,

You should calibrate the LCD before you dismiss its quality. The defaults for the PowerBooks don't bring out the best of the LCDs until you change the font smoothing options (initially set for CRT, not LCD). You will also need to do the gamma adjust. I found the using the sRGB ColorSync profile brought out much richer colors in my display.
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post #343 of 590
10/27/03 at 10:30am
How long has everyone been waiting for repair? My Powerbook has been gone for 2 weeks and still no sign of a replacement screen. This is so frustrating I'm trying so hard to repress my rage
There's a fungus among us
- Mario
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There's a fungus among us
- Mario
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post #344 of 590
10/27/03 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally posted by gammera3D
How long has everyone been waiting for repair? My Powerbook has been gone for 2 weeks and still no sign of a replacement screen. This is so frustrating I'm trying so hard to repress my rage

I sent mine on a Tuesday, and received it back on the next Wednesday. I also called them several times in between to get status, and they told me on the friday after sending that they were updating me to "expedited" status. The also told me that if I didn't have it by thursday a week later they could upgrade me again so that the next LCD available would go directly to my computer.

Try calling and sounding frustrated. Don't be an ass, because it isn't the fault of the person you are talking too, but they hopefully will try to help you out.

-Spyky
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post #345 of 590
10/27/03 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by gammera3D
How long has everyone been waiting for repair? My Powerbook has been gone for 2 weeks and still no sign of a replacement screen. This is so frustrating I'm trying so hard to repress my rage

Same here - its been about 10 days since they took my AL away for repair - they told me on the phone that the first screen they tried on it was bad so now they are waiting for a new one to come... no ETA currently (this has been the case for over a week now).

At least i hope that the delay is due to Apple getting the problem fixed not just some silly supply issues...

If the machine comes back from Apple in a less then perfect state - I will be VERY PiED OFF!!!
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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post #346 of 590
10/27/03 at 6:27pm
Well, ladies and gentlemen,

I returned my ill-fated 15-inch Power book because of its white-spotitis and got a new 12-inch Powerbook. The 12 incher is great (so far). The screen is nice, and after installing Panther, the left palm rest got mildly hot, nothing like what I had expected. The dealer was nice to me and only charged me 10 percent restocking after one month of use (well, only three weeks of actual use). I will update you on how the 12-incher behaves. The screen on the 12 incher is actually brighter, in my opinion than on the 15-incher, but it is not as sharp. But, hell, who cares, as long as does not have white spots and dead/stuck pixels, none of which are present at this point in time.

By the way, I really don't think Apple has a fix for the problem, which I think is more perplexing that we all suspect. In my opinion the fundamental cause of the problem are the spacers behind the LCD, which push against the panel and cause the spots. But there might be more to the problem than that. The screens themselves might be more sensitive to physical pressure. This might be something that Apple did not pay sufficient attention during their, I am sure, rigorous testing process.
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post #347 of 590
10/27/03 at 7:08pm
I spoke with the head of the department today and apparently there is a policy that states if you don't get your repair back two weeks you get a brand new machine.

I have one question though, does anyone know if the newer pbooks are having the same display & latch problems? Was it just the first batch?

If I get my book back and the display craps out again I will be livid.
If they send me a new one with problems I'll be just as angry.
Mother (insert your favorite obscenities here) Apple is making me look real bad cause all I do is bad-mouth the 95-percenters and their butt-ugly wintel boxes and look at me now laptopless, naked and alone.
There's a fungus among us
- Mario
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There's a fungus among us
- Mario
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post #348 of 590
10/27/03 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by gammera3D
I spoke with the head of the department today and apparently there is a policy that states if you don't get your repair back two weeks you get a brand new machine.

I have one question though, does anyone know if the newer pbooks are having the same display & latch problems? Was it just the first batch?

If I get my book back and the display craps out again I will be livid.
If they send me a new one with problems I'll be just as angry.
Mother (insert your favorite obscenities here) Apple is making me look real bad cause all I do is bad-mouth the 95-percenters and their butt-ugly wintel boxes and look at me now laptopless, naked and alone.

I've yet to see one with what I would call a perfect screen. I am sure they are out there though.
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post #349 of 590
10/27/03 at 9:48pm
Well, my 15" is still great since I received on 10/6. I do have a dell laptop for work and it has several light spots, marks on the screen, and marks on the plastic around the keyboard...the dell is only about 5 months old...it get's extremely hot (a lot hotter than my 15" Al).

I continue to count my blessings with regards to my new Apple laptop...
15" Al PowerBook G4, 1.25 GHz, 80GB (5400 rpm) HD, SD
PM G4 Sawtooth 450
Wallstreet II G4 500 MHz, 40GB, DVD
IIfx, IIcx, II, PB 180, SE/30
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15" Al PowerBook G4, 1.25 GHz, 80GB (5400 rpm) HD, SD
PM G4 Sawtooth 450
Wallstreet II G4 500 MHz, 40GB, DVD
IIfx, IIcx, II, PB 180, SE/30
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post #350 of 590
10/28/03 at 12:44am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Three days so far, no white spots, no dead or stuck pixels, no latch problems... so far so good.

(And now of course that I've posted this, it'll all go to heck. )
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #351 of 590
10/28/03 at 7:27am
Even MacWorld noticed the problems

Apple had better address this publicly.
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post #352 of 590
10/28/03 at 7:59am
Thread Starter 
Well guys, I'm kinda in a pickle and not sure what to do: as I stated above, I seem to have gotten really lucky on the whole white spots/dead pixels/faulty latch thing.

In those areas, I have a PERFECT PowerBook (and couldn't be happier).

However, on the right side of the palmrest, facing the front of the machine (basically the area directly above the slot-loading drive where the side of the PowerBook meets the palmrest/top, there is the tiniest amount of gap or play and it squeaks when you're typing. You can take your finger and press it down and see it move and it makes this slightly obnoxious (but quiet, thankfully) squeaky, "monkey" sound as you're typing. In other words, it's obvious there isn't a connection made.

I wonder: is this going to come further apart? The left side is perfect: solid and quiet and a strong, sealed joint. It's just the right side, above the SuperDrive slot.



I'll call AppleCare tonight when I get home. I don't want to screw myself and MISS some sort of arbitrary, lame cut off point where I can have this addressed/repaired/replaced (the guy on the phone from the Atlanta Apple store said "10 days", which sounds like bullshit if this is an obvious flaw/defect on THEIR end.

The thing has only been on my desk since Saturday morning (bought it Friday night), so it's not like I'm slinging it around and making it do this.

Honestly, that's the ONLY downside to this otherwise awesome, perfect laptop.

So my pickle is: wait and miss some sort of cut-off, OR if AppleCare says "bring it back" or whatever and I get THAT problem fixed, but get a machine with 13 dead pixels, 4 white spots, a broken latch, dandruff, PMS, etc.



What I'd LIKE to do, to be completely honest, is to put some SuperGlue into a tiny, tiny syringe and just run a VERY light, small film or bead of it inside that slight crevice and mash it down to create a seal.

Think that'll void my warranty?

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post #353 of 590
10/28/03 at 8:37am
If I remember correctly - I've replaced my stock 80 GB HD w/a faster one - that cover actually comes off. So if you 'crazy-glue' it, it'll be a little difficult to take it off. Of course, if you have no intention of ever replacing your HD it's not an issue.

Cheers,
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post #354 of 590
10/28/03 at 8:41am
Presumably you can just ask the people at applecare whether they will be replacing or repairing the machine. I'm guessing that they'll repair it since they can't re-sell used machines and it is therefore not in their interest to replace when they could easily fix instead.

I also expect that if a machine comes back in worse condition than you sent it, you can ask for a new one (or your old one), even if the dead pixels aren't considered grounds for repair on a new machine.

I think your biggest worry will be the wait before you get your machine back.

Socrates
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance" - Steve Ballmer
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"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance" - Steve Ballmer
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post #355 of 590
10/28/03 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally posted by rashumon
Same here - its been about 10 days since they took my AL away for repair - they told me on the phone that the first screen they tried on it was bad so now they are waiting for a new one to come... no ETA currently (this has been the case for over a week now).

At least i hope that the delay is due to Apple getting the problem fixed not just some silly supply issues...

If the machine comes back from Apple in a less then perfect state - I will be VERY PiED OFF!!!

I just talked to Apple repair and they said to wait to send back in my PB, since the LCD's are on backorder. I'm supposed to call on Friday or Monday to see if they're back in stock or not. The send-in box arrived yesterday; and I planned on sending the PB in today; sure glad I called first!
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post #356 of 590
10/28/03 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Well guys, I'm kinda in a pickle and not sure what to do: as I stated above, I seem to have gotten really lucky on the whole white spots/dead pixels/faulty latch thing.

In those areas, I have a PERFECT PowerBook (and couldn't be happier).

However, on the right side of the palmrest, facing the front of the machine (basically the area directly above the slot-loading drive where the side of the PowerBook meets the palmrest/top, there is the tiniest amount of gap or play and it squeaks when you're typing. You can take your finger and press it down and see it move and it makes this slightly obnoxious (but quiet, thankfully) squeaky, "monkey" sound as you're typing. In other words, it's obvious there isn't a connection made.



I just looked at mine, and I noticed the same gap (thanks a lot, by the way! ). I also noticed a bit of flex, but it is due to the CDROM slot, not the gap --- in other words, the gap doesn't go away when I push on that edge.
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
1.25GHz 15" SD PowerBook, etc. etc.
15G 3rd Gen iPod

Well i've said it now, nothing's changed
people are burnin for pocket change
and creative minds are lazy
and the big three killed my baby
Reply
post #357 of 590
10/28/03 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally posted by Socrates
I'm guessing that they'll repair it since they can't re-sell used machines

Surely they can. What about the Apple Refurb Store?

Quote:
Originally posted by machem
I just looked at mine, and I noticed the same gap... I also noticed a bit of flex, but it is due to the CDROM slot, not the gap...

I have a tiny amount of flex aswell. I assume, too, that its cos of the SD slot.

pscates , I'd phone up Apple and ask if they could REPAIR it. If they don't want to, kick up a fuss. If they still refuse it's not covered by AppleCare, or whatever, I'd think long and hard about whether the problem was really something that was going to annoy me. If I decided it was, I'd have to go for a replacement...

I've just been through this process in fact...
You mean you read this far?
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You mean you read this far?
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post #358 of 590
10/28/03 at 11:21am
My 15" PB also has the squeaky spot above the DVD-R. I'm thinking the bottom of the wrist rest is touching the top of the DVD-R frame and pressure causes the two to rub together.

I had thought about worrying about this, but since I don't have spots or latch problems, I'm not going to worry about it.
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post #359 of 590
10/28/03 at 12:17pm
Wow, look at us. What other computer purchaser do we know of that inspects their products so thoroughly. None that I know of. I'm not saying we should be overly picky...but I wouldn't worry about the "sqeaky" casing over the SD. White spots are one thing...but let's not take it to extremes...
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post #360 of 590
10/28/03 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by filmmaker2002
Wow, look at us. What other computer purchaser do we know of that inspects their products so thoroughly. None that I know of. I'm not saying we should be overly picky...but I wouldn't worry about the "sqeaky" casing over the SD. White spots are one thing...but let's not take it to extremes...

If we had no love for computers, we would buy PC's. Obsession with detail is what separates us from the animals (and by animals I mean those dirty wintel lovers).
There's a fungus among us
- Mario
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There's a fungus among us
- Mario
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