Once again Limbaugh proves he's . . . . .

Warren Moon was a pretty good black QB too IIRC.

What the hell's he doing on ESPN to begin with?

Jeff

Ratings.


AP

spark debate? yeah, i guess. but like shannon sharpe said, the man doesn't know the difference between a screen pass and a screen door.

ESPN hired Rish Limbaugh?!

Bad enough they have started these ridiculous reality shows (Bimbos on a Boat) and even a fictitious series about professional football players. Now this. I'm really starting to lose respect for ESPN as a serious sports network. The magazine isn't too bad of the articles I've read, but the enterprise as a whole is lagging badly.

Get a clue Bristol.

actually, "playmakers" is a really good show. a bit unrealistic to think that all of those problems would be on ONE team, but still, i enjoy it...

i like how rush's reply (paraphrased here) was "i must have said something right if everyone is up in arms about it." uh, huh. right, rush. we NEVER get mad at public figures spouting idiocy as if it were gospel truth.

pisser is that on espn.com, they state like three times how much the ratings are up since he has been brought on board. i got good money tom jackson walks over and beats the crap outta rush by the end of the season.

p.s. i also love how rush says hides behind the "if we really had freedom of speech in this country, then everyone should recgonize that these are just words." dear rush, it's called "tact." and yes, you are a tactless jackass. true, i can go to a funeral and tell the deceased's living relatives "well, gosh, aren't you gald they're dead? i know i am. what? it's JUST my opinion." it is manipulation of this "right" to get a rise out of people that is unfair. you live in a social atmosphere, rush. not a vaccum. every action has repercussions. to ignore those reverberations and act indignant all the while is utterly irresponsible, especially considering the fact that you are afforded a position int he public spotlight not available to most.

Okay, diverging on the topic of Rush at the moment, this DOES bring up something I've always thought about McNabb.

HE REALLY IS OVERRATED considering his salary

As far as black QBs go, I'd take a healthy McNair over him, because he plays with even fewer options at WR and a considerably worse o-line. I'd even take a risk on Vick over him considering how much raw speed he has. And we may yet get to see Culpepper shine as they finally have a teammates that can actually suppress the pash rush.

McNabb is one of the most overrated QBs in the NFL right now. He can't carry the team, he never has. The fact that the Eagles were still dominant last year with Detmer starting should tell you something.

Rush overplays the race factor (but it's there) and completely ignores the East Coast media bias. He's big because he's a black QB in Philadelphia, not because he's just a black QB.

And Rush is just plain big. Huge, really... full of shite, as it were.

What gives you this idea?

The reason I think that?

Steve McNair

This sounds like a pretty good QB to me.

Compare McNabb's first four seasons in the NFL to McNair's first four seasons, and the Eagles' quarterback comes out ahead.

McNair, the third overall pick in the 1995 NFL draft, started 38 games and completed 634 of 1,130 passes in his first four NFL seasons. He had 38 touchdowns, 28 interceptions and a 77.9 quarterback rating. He started just six games in his first two seasons and led his team to a 16-16 record and zero playoff appearances in his third and fourth seasons.

McNabb started 48 games in his first four seasons and has led the Eagles to the playoffs in each of the last three seasons, including appearances in the NFC championship game the last two years. His playoff record is 4-3. He completed 932 of 1,639 passes in his first four years and had 71 touchdowns, 38 interceptions, and a 79.2 quarterback rating.

McNair, 30, has been sensational his last four seasons, leading Tennessee to the Super Bowl in the 1999 season and the AFC championship game last season. He also has become a more accurate passer while remaining a dangerous runner.

McNabb, who by his own admission didn't play well in the first two games of this season, is only 26 and definitely has a chance to continue developing. After the critical comments by the ESPN panel Sunday, McNabb went out and had his best game of the season, leading the Eagles to a 23-13 win over the Buffalo Bills.

He completed 18 of 29 passes for 172 yards and also ran nine times for 47 yards.

Boycott Sunday Night Football?
Boycott ESPN?

I have eliminated ESPN as my internet sports news site and will not visit again until they fire Rush Limbaugh.

Anyone remember Jimmy the Greek? Didn't think so



(an unfair comparison but ...)

You know, the whole race issue with athletes and head coaches seems like such a red herring to me. I might lead a very sheltered life, but not a single person I know thinks about these people's skin color or background having anything to do with their talent, expectations, qualifications or popularity (er, with the probable exception of Allen Iverson ). The race card only gets pulled when the jock gets arrested. Do people really think in these terms?

I mean, I think McNabb is OK. He is a great athlete but he isn't a good passer, doesn't see the field well, and has the dubious distinction of being the most qualified for any position on his team's offense including the O-line. Limbaugh is falling into the trap that even McNabb and the Eagles' coaching staff has fallen into. They all expect him to do everything, when in fact, he can't and he doesn't have the support around him that he needs.

chu_bakka:


It sounds like a pretty good QB to me as well. McNabb is definitely a pretty good QB.

McNair's first two years were with the Houston Oilers who were falling down the shitter Bengals-style. McNair's second two years were spent with the Tennessee Oilers, who were equally sucktastic.

McNabb came in with the Philadelphia Eagles. Quite a different situation; quite different. He is in an easier division on a better team.

McNair is better than McNabb by quite a bit. It's really not even close.

Err, by quite a bit? It's close to be sure, but if one asks a hundred people, I think McNabb comes out slightly ahead. On top of that, are there any other quarterbacks you would rather have than those two?

I'm drawing a blank right now on who I would choose over them. Michael Vick is close, but still immature. Chad Pennington, Joey Harrington? No. Daunte Culpepper? No. What's his name from the Patriots? No. Hometown QB David Carr has a great arm but still needs a little more matriculation. Byron Leftwich looks to have huge potential.

And I would debate the suggestion that a QB can carry a team. I really doubt any QB can carry bad team. Really really doubt it. A good team really is an integration of good coaching, motivated players, and good offense/defense design schemes.

Rush Limbaugh Resigns
In the wake of his controversial statements regarding Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, Rush Limbaugh has resigned from his position on ESPN's NFL pregame show. ESPN has accepted the resignation.


http://espn.go.com/

yeah, I gotta admit... Rush kind of blew this one. Rush isn't a racist, but it was a pretty stupid thing to say. His point may have even been well intentioned, but nonetheless, he was smart to resign - it was a dumb thing to say.

I don't understand why what he said was racist (Jimmy the Greek that is and not Rush). It reminds me of something Jerry said on Seinfeld: "If you like their race, how can that be racist?"

I think the whole thing was planned.

ESPN gets a huge publicity bomb, and there's one thing ESPN likes more than anything else: melodrama. Rush leaves and probably more people tune into his show than before.

Rush is not stupid. He is very exuberant, but what radio talk show host (or TV show host) isn't? It's a job qualification. The major reason people think he's stupid is because that's the de-facto (and even culturally "acceptable") insult from the left to the right.

I'm not sure I agree with Rush's point. I do SEE his point, but I'd say it more applies to the coaching than quaterbacks. Secondly, McNabb IS overrated.

More to the point, Rush is now being targeted for what Matt Drudge is calling an "assasinination" by the media. So far, I'd have to agree. There is no reason for Limbaugh's comments to cause this kind of explosion. All he said was that the media wanted to see a successful black quaterback, and McNabb was overrated as a result. It's at least a plausible thought...

But of course, we have Wesley Clark and Howard Dean calling for ESPN to fire Limbaugh (he's resigned). Big surprise there! Let's politicize this!

http://msn.espn.go.com/gen/news/2003/1001/1628537.html



Please. The more I think about this, the more it gets to me. Limbaugh's comment may not be accurate, but somehow I doubt that if a black man said a white QB was overrated would get so much attention.

No. That's utterly retarded. I want to live in a country where you can say something stupid and not be forced to resign by the frothing hordes of PC nuts.

So he made a dumb comment. BFD. Was Dusty Baker forced to resign? I rest my case.

I'd take both McNair and Culpepper over McNabb. Culpepper is a freaking linebacker playing QB and playing it very well. McNair is the toughest player in the game.

Yes! At least I didn't miss any events. CNNSI isn't the greatest.... I still have to fault ESPN on this one. They knew what they were getting into.

THT:

If I was going to build a team right now I would choose the following over McNabb:

black:
Mike Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Steve McNair

white:
Brett Favre, Chad Pennington, Drew Bledsoe, Peyton Manning, Trent Green, Jeff Garcia

I think Leftwich and Carr will prove to be better than McNabb soon enough.

Most QBs when compared to McNair are going to look overrated. That's because McNair is so underrated. I'd take McNair over McNabb but I'd take McNabb over Fiedler. So? I don't know what skin color has to do with whether or not someone is overrated. Doesn't Limbaugh know of any overrated white atheletes?

This contoversy is very annoying. I hate it when Jesse Jackson feels the need to inject race into every conversation. It's no less irritating when Limbaugh decides to do the same damn thing.

Uh, right now Pennington wouldn't do you much good.

McNabb may be overrated... but not because he's BLACK! His race has nothing to do with his on the field performance... if "the media" wanted a black QB to do well... which I really don't get why that would be a BAD thing... they would be more interested in Vick or McNair... and I think the media is interested in seeing them do well... not because they are black... but because they are exciting Quarterbacks to watch.

Face it... RUSH is a TOOL. And he was just used to his ditto heads agreeing with him 99.9% of the time... the US is not full of ditto heads that agree with him.

but rush is a very smart guy. he resigned. therefore, he can always claim he took the high road out of town (which, ironically, he did), and blame will be implicit upon people who were outraged. bloody brilliant.

but it still doesn't change the fact that due to his position in the public medium, where he is afforded as much (if not more) attention and spotlight than even politicians these days, he said a very tactless thing. you don't have to offend to get your point across. is it catering to a "pc" viewpoint? no. just blathering out whatever you feel like saying without regard for others is irresponsible and lazy.

(edit: but you know, i can see the other side, too, where people in the public eye might benefit from being able to say those things that your noraml average joe couldn't for fear of retaliation. i mean, it's not like rush is alone in his evaluation... he's just more obnoxious about it. the folks on "tough crowd with colin quinn" are just as, if not MORE obnoxious, crude and offensive on social topics than he is when they really get going.

i dunno. in the end, i think what he said was stupid, but i don't think he should lose his job -- by resignation or firing -- over it. not when he was hired to do just what he did, and espn knew what they were getting for their ratings boost.)

What Dusty Baker said wasn't at all related to what Rush said.

Mike Vick I can see, maybe because of his almost there experience. But Culpepper I wouldn't since he isn't the most accurate passer I've seen. I've been watching the Vikings for the better part of my life and Culpepper isn't quite there yet. Favre has got the gumption but is also on the backside of his career. Pennington is young, give him another year and we'll see. Bledsoe and Manning don't seem to perform all that well during the big games. Both Green and Garcia are servicible, perhaps we really can't say that much about them yet. Green may win the superbowl with the Chiefs, but I wouldn't call him a better QB than McNabb.


They've got better odds of not fulfilling their potential then turning into great QBs. A part of McNabb's overratedness is being on a team that made the playoffs in 3 straight years so early in his career. Probably in the same vein as Dan Marino was. McNabb's uniqueness to me seems to be the ability to make the play when it counts. Maybe I'm wrong considering last years NFC title game, but that's what I see in him and I don't see in others.

I thikn Limbaugh got in trouble for the same reasons Maher, Franken, and Coulter get in trouble. It is hard to straddle two worlds and not get heat from both of them. Maher was fired from Politically Incorrect by the same company. ABC/ESPN/Disney should just grow some backbone or decide they aren't going to hire these political/entertainers.

I really liked Politically Incorrect and occasionally catch Real Time. I never saw Limbaugh give commentary on ESPN but I would bet he was hired to be a bit edgy. You hire edgy and then get it, you should be upset. This is true of all of these types of commentators/entertainers.

Nick

BR I agree completely. We all (ALL) say stupid things.

Our society is a strange animal; on the one hand of course nobody is an advocate for racism, slavery, repression of rights for women or minorities (BUT) Now with that said are we to live in context of absolute PC???? I think people make unwise choices of statements and nobody is out of that loop. Any race, sex, income level, social status, we all make statements that are not 100% PC.

Some people like to play PC police and yet others like to play the "victom" I am not an advocate of non-PC speech but I would suggest that people have some balance about themselves if a fellow citizen says a non PC statement. It should not be viewed as criminal or "the end of the world" if a person says a stupid choice of words. We should all be bigger than the words some person blurts out.

Fellowship

Please. Try predictable. It was obvious he was going to quit and not wait to get fired if the kitchen got too hot. The comment was stupid. Period. If he's such a smart guy, doubly stupid because he should've known better.

If he were the only black quarterback around, I may have listened. But he isn't.

"Political correctness" doesn't exist. It's a creation of the right. Blah, blah, blah. Someone want to fight this one for me? Already did in 10 other threads.

Shawn you are the one who mentioned boycot ESPN unless they "fire Rush" You get that from your young age where by you naturally are still finding your "ego". When you mature somewhat you will not get your underwear in a wad everytime some person says something you disagree with. You will experience the chill factor some day. Until then you "keeping up appearances" of outrage when a political figure you disagree with makes a stupid remark says more about you than anyone.

Fellowship

Are you ****ing kidding? You are really out there...