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I want AppleOutsider back.

Poll Results: Do you want AO back, like it used to be?

 
  • 45% (19)
    Yes, I want AO back, like it used to be.
  • 23% (10)
    No, AO is fine the way it is right now.
  • 30% (13)
    Whatever.
42 Total Votes  
post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
Look at what AO is now.

It's a shadow of its former self.

It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.

There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!

Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.

I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.

I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.

Who will help me?
post #2 of 52
The membership turned it into what it is now.

Only they can change it.
post #3 of 52
It's a complete hell-hole (or at least it was months and months ago). I no longer go there because I have a feeling with all that's going on in the world now (the Ten Commandments thing, the California recall, Iraq, Al Franken, Rush Limbaugh's woes, President Bush simply breathing air and having the audacity to even exist, etc.) it's just a complete mess...and no fun at all.

Ugh...

I extricated myself from that pit of vipers MONTHS ago. And I'm a better person for it.



Feels really nice to no longer have the urge to tell some people to go **** themselves immediately with a blow torch or sharp object. That'll put lines on your face and gray in your hair, feeling that way.

post #4 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
It's a complete hell-hole (or at least it was months and months ago). I no longer go there because I have a feeling with all that's going on in the world now (the Ten Commandments thing, the California recall, Iraq, Al Franken, Rush Limbaugh's woes, President Bush simply breathing air and having the audacity to even exist, etc.) it's just a complete mess...and no fun at all.

Ugh...

I extricated myself from that pit of vipers MONTHS ago. And I'm a better person for it.



Feels really nice to no longer have the urge to tell some people to go **** themselves immediately with a blow torch or sharp object. That'll put lines on your face and gray in your hair, feeling that way.


(with gray hair and beard)

Whatcha say sonny?

I have been reducing my posting there and thinking of taking a break myself. It is, I guess a bit addictive thought because most of the folks who have taken breaks have basically had to hide the forum from view. After several failed attempts at a halfway house, I might have to go into a detox center.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #5 of 52
I stay the hell away from AO... I just don't like the smell.

If it were to change then I might like it.

So I vote YES.
post #6 of 52
Thread Starter 
\\/\\/ickes: There was a time, when AO was just 'real-life'. Things about what we were listening to, who we were dating, what our life was all about, what jobs we did and how the view looked outside our windows. It was about us.

It was nice.

Then the political (!) rage came, and when AO couldn't handle it any longer, Fireside Chat was created. As the name implies, it was a place where many fights were fought. The mods were afraid of it, and so the day came when it was killed (This was not the sole reason).

All the anger stopped for some time. Then it came back. It devastated AO.

I don't want to close AO. I don't think this is an option. No, I want that we, the community make an effort to restore it. If this requires to temporarily close AO, then so be it.

On the other hand, I think that AO is a splinter in the eye of many mods and admins here. It might also be a possibility to close AO for the good. Why not? It creates the possibility to start some things over.

But hey, don't forget, we ought to do this together. We are AppleInsider. No-one else.
post #7 of 52
Ok. I understand what you are shooting for...

I am all for it.

We could kill off AO... and replace it...

Or, we could try very hard to change the current AO...

I will support any change, and I will help back up the new enviroment.

What can we do now? ...in terms of getting AO back on track..
post #8 of 52
It's true that AO is not what it once was. The demise of Fireside Chat saw to that. Yet, I have voted that I like it how it is. It basically boils down to the fact that I'm not 100% Holy (i.e. I like stirring the pot every once in a while - though those onces are moving further and further apart). So, in a sense, I do understand and agree with what you mean, and I would love to see the old Fireside Chat/AppleOutsider schism return, but if that's not to be, I would like AO to stay pretty much as it is. I remember that AO, when FC existed, got a LOT less traffic than the Fireside, and I see that now, AO, is the number one forum. And I see that the mudsling-contests are interspersed with the threads that used to define AO. So in a sense, I think the volumes of both types of threads have remained. In any case, I'm sorry to be putting it like this. You may not like it all that much, Defiant, but I'm trying to be honest.
post #9 of 52
There is nothing wrong with AO. Sure things get heated, and sure there are some insults. But there are also a lot of interesting ideas. Ignore the insults and address the ideas. I have said this a few times now.
tribalfusion?
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tribalfusion?
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post #10 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
Look at what AO is now.

It's a shadow of its former self.

It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.

There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!

Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.

I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.

I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.

Who will help me?

Stop living in the past you crazy nutbag. Go eat a chicken foot.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #11 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Jambo
The membership turned it into what it is now.

Only they can change it.

I cannot help but reiterate what Jamie says here.

AppleOutsider has turned into a mess because the members have chosen to do so. We gave the members a separate forum (Fireside Chat) for the heated political and religious discussions, but it became such a flame-fest that we had to close it altogether. AppleOutsider, fortunately, has not yet reached the level of bickering and pure hatred that Fireside Chat seemed to foster. We have guidelines and try to enforce them in AppleOutsider but only you and the other members can choose to make the forums a pleasant, civil place for discussion.

If you believe that there are specific members that are causing problems in said forum, please feel free to contact any of the moderators or admins directly. As much as we try to, we can't monitor every single discussion all of the time. On top of that, some of us try to avoid AppleOutsider in the same manner that pscates and \\/\\/ickes said above that they do; so, occasionally things can really get out of hand and none of us will notice.

A few members have actually requested to be locked out of AppleOutsider because they were either too tempted to post angry messages or were too disturbed by the messages there. If you ever would like to be included in this group, contact me or Jonathan or Amorph and one of us will gladly switch your account into that usergroup.
post #12 of 52
AO is the way it is because of all the homos! Dirty little homos!
I can change my sig again!
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I can change my sig again!
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post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
Look at what AO is now.

It's a shadow of its former self.

It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.

There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!

Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.

I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.

I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.

Who will help me?

Well, I agree completely. AO used to be fun ... not some place you went to pick a fight/flame war. Sure there were a few, but those were fun too... since there weren't too many.

Now, well, I don't really enjoy it anymore.
Kappa Rho Alpha Theta Zeta Omega Nu Epsilon
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Kappa Rho Alpha Theta Zeta Omega Nu Epsilon
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post #14 of 52
There is a very easy solution tae this. Firstly a'body in AppleInsider must submit their full names and address tae the moderators. Moderators (wha will hae tae be stern and unswayably resolute like Gary Cooper in High Noon) will vet a' posts afore allowing them tae appear on the board.

Upon a submitted post failing the agreed morays and manners that defines the Mac Community worldwide, the moderators will despatch newly appointed enforcers tae stamp on the offender's computer and tender parts and generally teach them the error o' their ways.
Heedrum Ho
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Heedrum Ho
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post #15 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad A few members have actually requested to be locked out of AppleOutsider because they were either too tempted to post angry messages...



That would be me. I couldn't trust myself to not wallow in the mud on some of the more outrageous threads (but it's ultimately a headache and not worth the hassle). Now AO doesn't even show in my forum list and so I can't even worry/think about it.

Very cool.

It's a Mac-oriented site, so it feels better coming here just for that stuff anyway. Besides, there are tons of other places on the Internet for people to bicker, carry on and generally act like raging assholes to the third power...

post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Besides, there are tons of other places on the Internet for people to bicker, carry on and generally act like raging assholes to the third power...

yes...but they're not Mac assholes are they ?

See, you even get a cooler class of dickhead in the Mac community
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #17 of 52
Hmm.

Go look at AO right now. Out of the 25 or so threads I see, only maybe 5 are hot political-type threads. The rest are about movies (several), baseball, TV shows, bands, cars, football, and the like.

I think that's pretty typical for AO.

The directly political threads are about the CIA leak, the CA recall, and one about WMD and war. In other words, what people are talking about right now. There are only two or so overtly partisan food-fight threads: a Bush-bash thread, a Democrat-bash thread, and an Ann Coulter vs. Al Franken thread.

There are also a couple about hot social/political issues like racism in the hospital and planned parenthood.

But by far the majority of threads are just everyday "movies I like" and "how bout them ball-throwers" types of threads.

From what I can tell, some people just don't like to see disagreement of any kind. Some people I guess just get so worked up by seeing a disagreeing point of view that they must have themselves restrained. I don't really get that, but yeah, you're probably better off not reading debate then.


[edit]I remember when I was at home from college in the summer, I would watch Crossfire on CNN. My mom would try to watch it with me, but she literally couldn't physically watch it. It upset her so much to see people arguing like that that she had to leave the room. It was as if she was watching an x-rated ultraviolent movie or something. I thought it was kinda funny, but I guess some people are just like that.
post #18 of 52
I also think that the posts are sort of indicative of Apple users as a whole. I mean if you don't have thick enough skin to buck the PC trend, think a little different, and say I'm going to use this solution BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT they you probably don't own a Mac.

Of course you get into AppleOutsider and realize we all don't think differently from PC's but also from each other.

Mac users are a passionate bunch. I have a lot of respect for people on these forums. Even people with whom I vehemently disagree. I understand that this passion is the basis of alot of what is right and wrong about what happens periodically in AppleOutsider. I just don't think there is a way to remove that passion in the negative aspects and not have it harm the positive aspects.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #19 of 52
Bring back Fireside Chat!

*Dodging Rocks*

*Dodging Rotten fruit*

J/K
horrid misuse of cool technology
SSBA.COM
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horrid misuse of cool technology
SSBA.COM
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post #20 of 52
BRussell, keep your high-falutin' analysis to your damn self.



Nice little sideways dig.

I CAN restrain myself, thank you. I didn't go there for a LONG time before requesting to have it removed from my list. I just didn't really want to see it.

And come off it: it's not "debate", in many cases. It's a free-for-all, and quite mean. And I have other sites I go to where it's a bit more low-key and friendlier and there aren't a certain 5-6 people seemingly going out of their way to muck up a discussion or get personal.

I'm still very much right-of-center and fond of my leanings and beliefs, but this place just doesn't seem like the best place to express it, or hash it out. I got tired of it.

And I get disagreed with ALL THE TIME, so it's not like I can't deal with that either.



You pegged it kind wrong there, B...

Yeah, you take a snapshot of right now (5 threads, you say). But it has, in the past, been MUCH more than that (and, I'd imagine, be so again).

So I'm not some wilting flower chickenshit, afraid to "debate" at all. And to be honest, I do miss taking part in the threads about movies and life and general and so forth.

But you can't tell me with a straight face that much of what goes on in those threads involving politics, religion, society, etc. is reasoned, level-headed and mannered "debate".

Give me a ****ing break.



On balance, it's a pretty vicious, personal and baiting environment. On BOTH sides (and before you - or anyone else - can bring it up, yes...I myself have participated in that at times, to my shame and dismay).



I don't mind "disagreement". I mind bullies and nitpickers and shit-stirrers and I'd rather not have an otherwise great website/forum mingled in with stuff like that. That's my call and I feel better (and enjoy the site more) going with it, so don't let it rattle or vex you TOO much. It ain't worth it.



I enjoy AppleInsider much more as a strict Mac-only place.

You shouldn't ding me - or anyone - for that, or think we're somehow "not up to snuff" or can't stand a little "debate" (when it's rarely that anyway).

Maybe I just prefer to compartmentalize, keeping that sort of stuff to other sites/forums and keeping my Apple and Mac passions separated from all that. For the record, I don't visit or participate in the Lounge area/non-Mac or tech sections of MacNN, orangeinsider.com or arstechnica either.

I don't like to mix the two these days...leaves a weird taste. I came to AppleInsider nearly four years ago for the Mac stuff anyway. All I've really done is return to that and leave the other stuff behind.



Besides, let's get completely honest: I'm never going to change or influence Shawn, giant, pfflam, bunge or anyone else. And they're not going to change or influence me. So after a while, you're just kinda banging your head against a brick wall, saying things they don't believe or agree with and hearing things from them you don't believe or agree with, so why bother? All of them are, from what I can tell, pretty okay fellas and I'd rather meet up with them in other forums where it's Mac-oriented and can actually carry on a normal conversation and not be bickering about stuff and going in circles, trading comebacks and responses for three days over some silly issue that really doesn't affect my life anyway.

Been there, done that. Have NOTHING to show for it either.



See, it's more a "quality of life" issue than anything...

post #21 of 52
Damn, you kinda pissed me off, BRussell...





Oh well, it's not AO. I'm over it already.
post #22 of 52
I rest my case about some people.
post #23 of 52
And this, ladies and gentleman, is why AO will never return to 'normal'.
post #24 of 52
Defiant : i don't think AO is worse or better than it was. I think that you are simply bored of AO, something i can perfectly understand ...

To my advice the only change, is that there is less humor in AO, than it used to be. I vote for the return of humor
post #25 of 52
Thread Starter 
Thanks Cash-Man, you certainly took away the blinds. It's really a good example. And you even brought humor.

Powerdoc: Humor is good. More Humor!

Maybe some things should stay as they were, so that we can refer to them as 'the glorious old times'. Maybe we will look back and see what we had. \
post #26 of 52
AO is just a reflection of the real world. Yes, its f**ked up..

- Of-course it is...
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #27 of 52
Personally, I think AO is a *good* thing for all of us on this board. I mean, let's face it people, like BRussell said, we wouldn't be here if we weren't a passionate lot. And given the daily (for some of us) ostracizing and defending what we *know* is *right*, well, we've all got that little ball in our gut that needs to be released now and then. AO is that release.

Seriously, this board has the most interesting and balanced member set on the web. Sure, we all came here at one point or another for rumoring, but a large portion of us stayed because of the people involved. Not rumoring, chatting.

To those that do post in AO's credit, harsh posts are rarely seen outside of AO. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and hypothesize that if we didn't have AO, there would be a lot more flames to extinquish in the other forums.

Hell, I've been witness to Scott getting his butt kicked and verging on an ALL CAPS post in AO, then 30 seconds later see a post in GB where he's downright sweet helping a *nix user. Now that's what I'm talking about.

And I see that all the time. One minute giant, bunge, BRussell, BR, Harald, Hassan, etc, etc, getting down and dirty in AO...then posting something quite helpful on the other forums...devoid of any AO taint.

So, I'm of the mind to just leave it. Like Jack has said so many times to us all, it's up to the posters in that forum to add or subtract quality. But, if we decide that AO is a 'bad place' and get rid of it, I fear for the continuing quality of the other forums.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by 709
Personally, I think AO is a *good* thing for all of us on this board. I mean, let's face it people, like BRussell said, we wouldn't be here if we weren't a passionate lot. And given the daily (for some of us) ostracizing and defending what we *know* is *right*, well, we've all got that little ball in our gut that needs to be released now and then. AO is that release.

Seriously, this board has the most interesting and balanced member set on the web. Sure, we all came here at one point or another for rumoring, but a large portion of us stayed because of the people involved. Not rumoring, chatting.

To those that do post in AO's credit, harsh posts are rarely seen outside of AO. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and hypothesize that if we didn't have AO, there would be a lot more flames to extinquish in the other forums.

Hell, I've been witness to Scott getting his butt kicked and verging on an ALL CAPS post in AO, then 30 seconds later see a post in GB where he's downright sweet helping a *nix user. Now that's what I'm talking about.

And I see that all the time. One minute giant, bunge, BRussell, BR, Harald, Hassan, etc, etc, getting down and dirty in AO...then posting something quite helpful on the other forums...devoid of any AO taint.

So, I'm of the mind to just leave it. Like Jack has said so many times to us all, it's up to the posters in that forum to add or subtract quality. But, if we decide that AO is a 'bad place' and get rid of it, I fear for the continuing quality of the other forums.

This is an interesting point of vue : AO the official punching ball of AI
post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
This is an interesting point of vue : AO the official punching ball of AI

Right. If AO didn't exist I'd be telling Defiant to fvck off right about now in this thread right here.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #30 of 52
I agree with BR...oops, I mean BRussell.
tribalfusion?
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tribalfusion?
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post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Mac users are a passionate bunch. I have a lot of respect for people on these forums. Even people with whom I vehemently disagree. I understand that this passion is the basis of alot of what is right and wrong about what happens periodically in AppleOutsider. I just don't think there is a way to remove that passion in the negative aspects and not have it harm the positive aspects.

Ditto that last caller
post #32 of 52
Thread Starter 
You're my smoochie-poooh BR
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
AO is the way it is because of all the homos! Dirty little homos!

post #34 of 52
Thread Starter 
easy jaime, you can't kill all them dirty little heteros
post #35 of 52
Thread Starter 
Please, nuke AO.
post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Jambo

Awww, you know I love you, Jamie.
I can change my sig again!
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I can change my sig again!
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post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by Defiant
You're my smoochie-poooh BR

I'm overjoyed. I am now complete.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #38 of 52
I have stopped visiting in AO too. It seemed everytime I read something there or everytime I posted there I always left feeling, well, dirty... That can't be a good thing.
Pismo, Deus Ex Machina.
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Pismo, Deus Ex Machina.
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post #39 of 52
Yeah . . . . let's bring back FIRESIDE CHAT . . . thems were the good-ole days!!!!!





















"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Yeah . . . . let's bring back FIRESIDE CHAT . . . thems were the good-ole days!!!!!

They were. Good idea.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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