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Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids - Page 2  

post #41 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
How did this degenerate into a thread about chics that swing both ways?

We really need to have more threads do this.

post #42 of 380


Edit: don't get me wrong - not proposing it for hottest pic (evar), it's just some chicks kissing.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #43 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
The church leaders should be tried for genocide in an international court. There's no other acceptable step to deal with this.

You get aids from sex. The church opposes it. I fail to see your logic.
post #44 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
a few notes.

(and understand, i don't agree with them AT ALL on this one)

in theory, if everyone were to follow the church's teachings about sex (not until marrige) the spread of AIDS would grind to a virtual halt. sure, needles and misc. would still spread AIDS to some miniscule extent, but it wouldn't really be the problem it is now.

problem is, theory and reality often don't mix. people will have sex and so should use condoms.

as for the AIDS virus passing through, my understanding was that the virus itself is small enough to fit through the latex, but since it's immersed in fluids it never actually does.

a kernal of truth wrapped in misleading information. who'd have thunk it.


The fluid does pass through... condoms are 99% effective or something... but a woman is only fertile for about 2 days out of the month. This means that

(28/30)*leak_rate+(2/30)*leak_rate=.01

solve that equation and you get

leak_rate=0.15 or



15% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So everytime you have sex with an HIV infected person you have a 15% chance of exchanging fluid. Now multiply that by the rate at which you are likely to get HIV from exchanging fluids with an HIV positive person and thats scary.
post #45 of 380
www.freecondoms.com

Man I enjoyed finding their site.

now I'm off to register the domain www.condomsarethedevil.com
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
post #46 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
I've just thought of another analogy:

It's as if the Catholic church is saying that seatbelts are not 100% effective, so they shouldn't be installed in cars because they cause drivers to drive carelessly because of a "false" sense of security.

No. a better analogy is the Catholic church says don't kill. Of course this means they don't approve of wearing gloves while you kill because they don't believe you should kill.

Then your counter-argument would be, "but killing without gloves will cause me to go to jail. Thats not good advice. Catholics are illogical."
post #47 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Nordstrodamus
And people balked when I compared the Pope with Bin Laden. Let's see, both believe they know the true will of god, both endorse policies that result in massive death, both consider themselves infalliable, wait... no... that's just the pope.

By this same logic, Gun's kill so the authors of the US Bill of Rights (Specifically, 2nd amendment authors) are a bunch of bin ladens.
post #48 of 380
Thread Starter 
*BZZT*

They are also telling that guy in the choir to **** his wife without a condom, and he is HIV positive.

Your analogy is retarded.
post #49 of 380
Do I go to hell if I think Catholics are retarded? (not saying I do or anything)

Some Mormons said I was going to 'outer darkness' the other day when I got into a chat with them... it made me feel bad so I don't talk to them any more. I don't go around telling THEM they have to be in the dark. ::goes to turn on another night light::
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
post #50 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
*BZZT*

They are also telling that guy in the choir to **** his wife without a condom, and he is HIV positive.

Your analogy is retarded.

What the hell are you talking about? There some console in the Catholic church that has nothing better to do than sit around and tell sick married people to have sex? I think your confused.
post #51 of 380
Thread Starter 
Guess you didn't read the article.
post #52 of 380
They who said among themselves, thinking not aright: "Brief and troublous is our lifetime; neither is there any remedy for man's dying, nor is anyone known to have come back from the nether world. For haphazard were we born, and hereafter we shall be as though we had not been; Because the breath in our nostrils is a smoke and reason is a spark at the beating of our hearts, And when this is quenched, our body will be ashes and our spirit will be poured abroad like unresisting air.

Even our name will be forgotten in time, and no one will recall our deeds. So our life will pass away like the traces of a cloud, and will be dispersed like a mist pursued by the sun's rays and overpowered by its heat. For our lifetime is the passing of a shadow; and our dying cannot be deferred because it is fixed with a seal; and no one returns. Come, therefore, let us enjoy the good things that are real, and use the freshness of creation avidly.
Let us have our fill of costly wine and perfumes, and let no springtime blossom pass us by; let us crown ourselves with rosebuds ere they wither. Let no meadow be free from our wantonness; everywhere let us leave tokens of our rejoicing, for this our portion is, and this our lot.

Let us oppress the needy just man; let us neither spare the widow nor revere the old man for his hair grown white with time. But let our strength be our norm of justice; for weakness proves itself useless.

Let us beset the just one, because he is obnoxious to us; he sets himself against our doings, Reproaches us for transgressions of the law and charges us with violations of our training. He professes to have knowledge of God and styles himself a child of the LORD.

To us he is the censure of our thoughts; merely to see him is a hardship for us, Because his life is not like other men's, and different are his ways.

He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father. Let us see whether his words be true; let us find out what will happen to him. For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes.

With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience. Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him."

These were their thoughts, but they erred; for their wickedness blinded them, And they knew not the hidden counsels of God; neither did they count on a recompense of holiness nor discern the innocent souls' reward. For God formed man to be imperishable; the image of his own nature he made him. But by the envy of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are in his possession experience it.

Wisdom 2
post #53 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
Guess you didn't read the article.

I don't have to to know that its illogical and biased. Why would I waste my time?

I can pull go to www.catholic.org and search. I don't find a council of marital sex enforcement.
post #54 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
The fluid does pass through... condoms are 99% effective or something... but a woman is only fertile for about 2 days out of the month. This means that

(28/30)*leak_rate+(2/30)*leak_rate=.01

solve that equation and you get

leak_rate=0.15 or

15% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So everytime you have sex with an HIV infected person you have a 15% chance of exchanging fluid.


Uhm sorry, but that's cow manure :-)

1) Women are fertile for about 11 days in every month (Link minimum)

2) Fluid does *not* pass. Condoms are individually tested. Only in the case where you use oil-based lubes will fluid actually pass the condom (oil creates microholes).

3) The overwhelming majority of breaking or slipping condoms is due to errors of the personel involved. So, the risk is extremely dependend on how used you are to shrink-wrapping your dick. Buy water-based lube. Practice. Practice in front of your woman.
post #55 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
The fluid does pass through... condoms are 99% effective or something... but a woman is only fertile for about 2 days out of the month. This means that

(28/30)*leak_rate+(2/30)*leak_rate=.01

solve that equation and you get

leak_rate=0.15 or



15% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So everytime you have sex with an HIV infected person you have a 15% chance of exchanging fluid. Now multiply that by the rate at which you are likely to get HIV from exchanging fluids with an HIV positive person and thats scary.


Are you retarded?

You go from having 99% protection with a condom, factor in her being fertile 2 days a week, and suddenly we have a 15% chance of fluid transfer?

Wow.
post #56 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
Uhm sorry, but that's cow manure :-)

1) Women are fertile for about 11 days in every month (Link minimum)

2) Fluid does *not* pass. Condoms are individually tested. Only in the case where you use oil-based lubes will fluid actually pass the condom (oil creates microholes).

3) The overwhelming majority of breaking or slipping condoms is due to errors of the personel involved. So, the risk is extremely dependend on how used you are to shrink-wrapping your dick. Buy water-based lube. Practice. Practice in front of your woman.


Um, sorry, but your article doesn't say that. 4 days at best. but nowhere does it say those 4 days have 100% guarantee of pregnancy. Of course were both simplifying the truth. But the empherical evidence stands on the personal experiences of several million people successfully practicing natural family planning.
post #57 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Smircle
1) Women are fertile for about 11 days in every month (Link minimum)

Oh crap, that means what, a 60% chance of fluid transfer every time you use a condom then?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
post #58 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
Are you retarded?

You go from having 99% protection with a condom, factor in her being fertile 2 days a week, and suddenly we have a 15% chance of fluid transfer?

Wow.

well, its the fluid that gets women pregnant.. if they get pregnant at a certain rate and you factor out the times of the month that they aren't fertile, then you can calculate the amount of fluid getting through.

Stop and think about last time you had sex... were you nice and dry around your pubic region? There was no sperm working its way up the condom? Makes it hard to defend the safety of it...
post #59 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
You get aids from sex.

No, you don't. You can get AIDS from a transmission of certain bodily fluids. If you don't transfer fluids, there's no risk of AIDS. You can certainly have sex without transfering infected fluids. Your position is biased and incorrect.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
post #60 of 380
Thread Starter 
Well, in the condom directions, it tells you to pull out after you ejaculate. If you have sperm working its way up and out of the condom during sex, it's your own damn fault.

And yes, I'm pretty sure I didn't have sperm in my pubic hair last time I had sex.

post #61 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by bunge
No, you don't. You can get AIDS from a transmission of certain bodily fluids. If you don't transfer fluids, there's no risk of AIDS. You can certainly have sex without transfering infected fluids. Your position is biased and incorrect.

I just proved the invalidity of that assumption using the back of the condom package, the link someone provided above, and 8th grade math. If you can't see that then its really just a matter of invincible ignorance on your part.
post #62 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
Well, in the condom directions, it tells you to pull out after you ejaculate. If you have sperm working its way up and out of the condom during sex, it's your own damn fault.

And yes, I'm pretty sure I didn't have sperm in my pubic hair last time I had sex.


She must not have been too aroused.
post #63 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
well, its the fluid that gets women pregnant.. if they get pregnant at a certain rate and you factor out the times of the month that they aren't fertile, then you can calculate the amount of fluid getting through.

You weren't talking about pregnancy when you made this statement:

So everytime you have sex with an HIV infected person you have a 15% chance of exchanging fluid.

Nothing to do at all with how long a woman is fertile each month. What, a woman gets a hysterectomy and she's suddenly a safe lay?
post #64 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
She must not have been too aroused.

Well then, that about does it. You are obviously not trying to really discuss anything here. I didn't think you were such a troll, but then again I'm not in here a whole lot.

Obviously if you are practising safe sex, you're not going to have cum in your pubic hair during sex. That's what the ****ing condom is for.

Too bad your parents didn't know more about this stuff.
post #65 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
You weren't talking about pregnancy when you made this statement:

So everytime you have sex with an HIV infected person you have a 15% chance of exchanging fluid.

Nothing to do at all with how long a woman is fertile each month. What, a woman gets a hysterectomy and she's suddenly a safe lay?

No, I was not talking about pregnancy. I was using the pregnancy statistics from the back of a condom box to calculate the amount of fluid passing through the condom... I will cut and paste from my previous post:

The fluid does pass through... condoms are 99% effective or something... but a woman is only fertile for about 2 days out of the month. This means that

(28/30)*leak_rate+(2/30)*leak_rate=.01

solve that equation and you get

leak_rate=0.15 or



15% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So everytime you have sex with an HIV infected person you have a 15% chance of exchanging fluid. Now multiply that by the rate at which you are likely to get HIV from exchanging fluids with an HIV positive person and thats scary.
post #66 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
Well then, that about does it. You are obviously not trying to really discuss anything here. I didn't think you were such a troll, but then again I'm not in here a whole lot.

Obviously if you are practising safe sex, you're not going to have cum in your pubic hair during sex. That's what the ****ing condom is for.

Too bad your parents didn't know more about this stuff.

When a woman is aroused, you can run your finger along her labia (sp), without penetration, and get cum on your finger. Your arguing this?
post #67 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
She must not have been too aroused.

If your 'girlfriend' is leaving sperm in your pubic hair, then you've got nothing to worry about pregnancy.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
post #68 of 380
Holy crap has this thread gone to pot.
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
post #69 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
If your 'girlfriend' is leaving sperm in your pubic hair, then you've got nothing to worry about pregnancy.

Read the original post before you spew fud. I was talking about moisture. I ignored his typo (converting moisture to sperm).
post #70 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
Read the original post before you spew fud. I was talking about moisture. I ignored his typo (converting moisture to sperm).

I'm sorry that you lost your sense of humour at some point in time. Hopefully you'll find it one day.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
post #71 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
I ignored his typo (converting moisture to sperm).

Yeah, it's not like you were the one who first made the "sperm working its way up the condom" comment.

heh

Oh my god, talking to trolls is addictive man, I can't stop. I want to see what other fairy tales you can try and prove!
post #72 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
I'm sorry that you lost your sense of humour at some point in time. Hopefully you'll find it one day.

Yeah, normally I would get a chuckle out of it. But I was being serious because it hurts me to see people so lost as the folks making these posts. I'm a sucker for defending God.
post #73 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
I'm a sucker for defending God.

Yes, you are.

Wait. I may have read that sentence wrong.

Do you mean you like defending him, or that defending him makes you a sucker?

post #74 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
Yes, you are.

Wait. I may have read that sentence wrong.

Do you mean you like defending him, or that defending him makes you a sucker?


Do I sense someone on the defense?
post #75 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
Do I sense someone on the defense?

Don't you know what you sense ?

I'm more interested in your defense of God - does he tell you to do this or is it a kind of freelance effort ?

Does he tell you to do other things ? Do they often centre around sex ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #76 of 380
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox Hero
Do I sense someone on the defense?

No, this is more like when I'm explaining something to my 2 year old and she isn't able to grasp what we're talking about.

After a while you just have to laugh at it.
post #77 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
No, this is more like when I'm explaining something to my 2 year old and she isn't able to grasp what we're we're talking about.

After a while you just have to laugh at it.

You don't understand math?
post #78 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Don't you know what you sense ?

I'm more interested in your defense of God - does he tell you to do this or is it a kind of freelance effort ?

Does he tell you to do other things ? Do they often centre around sex ?

Hang on, I'm checking my crystal ball.
post #79 of 380
Thread Starter 
Guy, your equation doesn't mean jack shit.

You're talking about fluid transfer during sex with an HIV infected person.

What the hell does it matter if she is fertile that day or not?
post #80 of 380
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
Guy, your equation doesn't mean jack shit.

You're talking about fluid transfer during sex with an HIV infected person.

What the hell does it matter if she is fertile that day or not?

What I would suggest is printing this discussion off and spending a couple days thinking about it.
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