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"The Stovepipe" - Seymour Hersh gets it right again...

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
The Stovepipe by Seymour M. Hersh (The New Yorker, Oct 27).

Amazing account of the conflicts between the Bush administration and the intelligence community.
post #2 of 17
Aren't you in violation of the posting guidelines?
post #3 of 17
Quote:
By early March, 2002, a former White House official told me, it was understood by many in the White House that the President had decided, in his own mind, to go to war. The undeclared decision had a devastating impact on the continuing struggle against terrorism. The Bush Administration took many intelligence operations that had been aimed at Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups around the world and redirected them to the Persian Gulf. Linguists and special operatives were abruptly reassigned, and several ongoing anti-terrorism intelligence programs were curtailed.


The idiocy and power lust of the administration knows no bounds.
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardf12
The idiocy and power lust of the administration knows no bounds.

Fortunately, we have Seymour Hersh to explain what boundaries the Bush Administration crossed. Does anyone defend the administration here?
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Aren't you in violation of the posting guidelines?

Not any more.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #6 of 17
Dear lord, Ship of Fools.

So, in short, Cheney (and Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld) is confident in the intelligence he received because he made sure that that intelligence was totally uncorroborated.

Notice how the report makes it seem as if this all occurred below and beyond POTUS. One could say, "Gee, the poor fellow has no idea what is being fed to him." Or one could say, "Man, Cheney really is Willie Tyler to Dubya's Lester."


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post #7 of 17
Too many unnamed sources for my taste.
post #8 of 17
I don't need sources or a guy named Seymour to convince me there is something decidely wrong with the Bush Administration.
Aldo is watching....
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Aldo is watching....
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post #9 of 17
It's a bad thing when an administration decides it can do a better job with raw intelligence information than the CIA can. And then they turn around and blame the CIA when that info doesn't say what they want.

Analyzing intelligence is a difficult and tedious job. And it rarely gives you concrete answers... that's why analysts write long detailed reports about the information.

This administration misused the public trust. I believe past administrations... both republican and democrat relied on the intelligence community for solid and reliable information so that they could make the right decisions. That's how presidents make wise decisions... this administration had already made up his mind... intelligence be damned.
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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post #10 of 17
I heard the writer on NPR. His sources are ones he has know for dozens of years. He has more cred then all the people of Faux news, and hate radio combined.

I swear to god. If george bush JUNIOR went up and bit some people on the ass, they would turn around and say the "liberal" planted his lying set of chompers on their tookus.

And the fools would believe him...

There is no one here or in any thread defending this admin's actions since they are undefendable.

And yet. most of these people seem to have more of a problem with a blow job in the white house then all the "president's" men manufacturing a reason for war that has killed hundreds of americans, thousands of civillians, and costs us hundreds of billions in dollars and untold currency with our allies...

Nope. But what do some people rally against instead?

The "liberal" media...
post #11 of 17
Seymour Hersh is the guy who uncovered the My Lai massacre, Kissinger's secret bombing of Cambodia, the CIA's illegal surveillance of domestic organizations, the CIA's involvement in the overthrowing of Salvador Allende, Israel's stealing of classified US intelligence (via convicted spy Jonathan Pollard) and the US role in Israel's nuclear proliferation.

Hersh's not very popular with right-wingers (Richard Perle referred to Hersh as "the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist" on CNN earlier this year). To be honest, I'm amazed he hasn't met with some kind of 'accident' long before now
post #12 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Seymour Hersh is the guy who uncovered the My Lai massacre, Kissinger's secret bombing of Cambodia, the CIA's illegal surveillance of domestic organizations, the CIA's involvement in the overthrowing of Salvador Allende, Israel's stealing of classified US intelligence (via convicted spy Jonathan Pollard) and the US role in Israel's nuclear proliferation.

Hersh's not very popular with right-wingers (Richard Perle referred to Hersh as "the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist" on CNN earlier this year). To be honest, I'm amazed he hasn't met with some kind of 'accident' long before now

And now... what exactly happened in terms of how the administration's estimates were so wrong. Do you think he'll win another Pulitzer for this?
post #13 of 17
Just saw this quote over at mediawhores...


"The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
- Hermann Goering
A Fair and Balanced Liberal

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post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
Seymour Hersh is the guy who uncovered the My Lai massacre, Kissinger's secret bombing of Cambodia, the CIA's illegal surveillance of domestic organizations, the CIA's involvement in the overthrowing of Salvador Allende, Israel's stealing of classified US intelligence (via convicted spy Jonathan Pollard) and the US role in Israel's nuclear proliferation.

Hersh's not very popular with right-wingers (Richard Perle referred to Hersh as "the closest thing American journalism has to a terrorist" on CNN earlier this year). To be honest, I'm amazed he hasn't met with some kind of 'accident' long before now

And his work for the new yorker for the past couple years has been amazing. Anyone that hasn't read these articles should do a search and spend the next month reading them.
post #15 of 17
Hersh is interviewed about his article:

Quote:
[Q:]Do you think that the world is a safer place than it was a year ago?

[Hersh] No. Its much more dangerous. Theres no question now. Weve now drawn a line in the sand, no pun intended, with 1.2 billion Muslims. Were really disliked. Americans have always been liked, whether or not the country has been. But now theres really an animosity toward Americans, and were going to have to go a long way to correct it.

"We're boned." -- Bender

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post #16 of 17
God, Sy Hersh is amazing.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #17 of 17
more proof GWB's White House and Intelligence don't belong in the same sentence

<searches for photo of three monkeys>

I recall early accusations that the GWB admin hawks had "planned Iraq war since 91" and that the Office of Special Plans was set up with the express intent of manufacturing "supporting intel" that somehow wasn't coming from the actual professional intel sources of the CIA, Pentagon, etc (now we understand why).
I recall these stories being dismissed by some members of the choir as "liberal media smears". hmmmm.

removing agents from the war on terrorism (found that 6'5" Dialysis Patient with a limp yet?) to "drum up some OMG WMD! news, not this actual news" in order to justify a prior hardon for Saddam sounds bad.

and if I'm reading Hersh's follow up interview right, it's not "Bush lied" so much as
"Bush stuck his fingers in his ears and yelled LALALALALALA whenever anything less than 'Saddam fries soft fluffy puppies in banned nucular barbeques' *cough* 'intelligence' *cough* arrived from the Chalabi Repertory Theatre Troop via Cheney's Office"

remind you of that Kuwaiti Official's Daughter fabricating stories about "babies tossed from incubators"?

propaganda is to be expected at some level, but please.

Hersh didn't even detail how bad the forged documents were...
signatures from guys who had long left office (sometimes offices they never held) on the wrong letterhead...
childlike and easily spotted according to european reports.

if the brits termed their info massaging as "sexing up the dossier"
GWB's version starts to look and sound like a cadre of fluffers.


meanwhile, the countdown to the "Smear Sy" campaign begins.

will an "unnamed White House official" suddenly out Sy's family as undercover CIA agents

less energy seems to be spent finding the last leaker than GWB's pen
(great NYT cartoon to that effect last Sunday)
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