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iBook G4 - Page 4

post #121 of 236
Actually, it does indeed ship with Panther.

post #122 of 236
On the memory front:

There is an ambiguity in the memory specs

256MB, expandable to 640MB

Versus


# One of the following memory configurations:

* 256MB of SDRAM (128MB built in and 128MB in SO-DIMM slot)
* 384MB of SDRAM (128MB built in and 256MB in SO-DIMM slot)
* 640MB of SDRAM (128MB built in and 512MB in SO-DIMM slot)

# One open SO-DIMM slot; support for up to 1.25GB



The tech spec part implies that there are TWO so-dimm slots, Im interested to here what others think about it. I know that the tech specs have been wrong before.

I also note that the powerplug is on the right hand side, which is a real shame. It really prevents the possibility of building a dock for the iBook.
post #123 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by iDebaser
I've owned a 12' ibook before i sold and upgraded to a 12' powerbook, and you're completely forgetting the wonderful keyboard on the Al powerbook!!

I wasn't forgetting the keyboard... I just don't know what the new iBook's keyboard might be like in comparison. It will almost certainly look different, but it might be nearly the same keyboard in a different color scheme.

One keyboard difference:
Quote:
From the iBook specs:
Built-in full-size keyboard with 77 (U.S.) or 78 (ISO) keys, including 12 function keys, 4 arrow keys (inverted "T" arrangement) and embedded numeric keypad

Quote:
From the PowerBook specs:
Built-in full-size keyboard with 78 (U.S.) or 79 (ISO) keys, including 12 function keys, 4 arrow keys (inverted "T" arrangement), and embedded keypad

It looks like the PowerBooks have one more key on the keyboard than the iBooks. I'm not sure which key that might be (I thought about the video mirroring key, but that's just a extra use for a function key), but looking at the QuickTime VR images, it's something in the top row. (The omission of the word "numeric" from the PB keyboard description has to be an oversight -- my 12" PB definitely has an embedded numeric keypad. )

Random evil thought: Imagine the howling if the 12" iBook had a lighted keyboard?
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post #124 of 236
i was really hoping for 12 inch versions of the faster speed ibooks, but then i realized that this would cannibalize 12 inch PB sales.. Now i still really want one of those sweet aluminum wonders..

Apple delivers again, in my opinion!!!
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post #125 of 236
Quote:
The Radeon 9200 has to be a league better than the GeForce 420 Go right?

Most things are. The GeForce 4 Go 4x0 series are not that much better than GeForce 2 MXs and are probably the rev A 12inch PowerBook's greatest gaming weakness, moreso than a lack of L3 cache.
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post #126 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
One keyboard difference:

It looks like the PowerBooks have one more key on the keyboard than the iBooks. I'm not sure which key that might be (I thought about the video mirroring key, but that's just a extra use for a function key), but looking at the QuickTime VR images, it's something in the top row.

The PowerBook has F1 through F12 keys and a separate Eject button, whereas on the iBook, the F12 key IS the eject button.
post #127 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by gsfmark
Apple delivers again, in my opinion!!!

nice sig.
Bulwer-Lytton contest, I presume... which year?
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post #128 of 236
For you conspiracy theorists out there, there's no such thing as a G4 without Altivec.
14" iBook
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14" iBook
700MHz G3
640MB RAM

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post #129 of 236
Uhg....this thread is making my head hurt and my faith in mac users drop


1. It's a G4. don't overanalyze stuff. my god
2. it says iBook G4 on it because they made the transition without a form factor change. When the iMac went G4, the design was totally different. No need to write G4 on it to differentiate it from the previous model.
3. the radeon 9200 is a very strong chip, especially for a laptop in that price range
4. this is not just some hacked update.... uhg


Be happy, these are nice, affordable, and good. what the hell do you people want.


I mean, look at this thread, it actually started with people COMPLAINING that they put a G4 in it and that it would compete with the powerbook. who the hell are you, apple or a user? Because i see no reason for any USER to be complaining about this update.
post #130 of 236
... don't forget: the new 12" 800MHz G4 iBook will actually be slower than the previous 800 MHz iBook G3 iBook for non-Altivec stuff because of the smaller cache. It should perfom comparably to the 800 TiBook which is slower then the 800 G3 iBook for non-Altivec tasks!

I just wish there was the option for a higher resolution screen with the 14" iBook (same DPI as the 12", say 1280x1024), that would make me buy one immediately.

Imagine the 1GHz specs and the higher resolution ... buy, buy, buy, buy ...
post #131 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by BNOYHTUAWB
... don't forget: the new 12" 800MHz G4 iBook will actually be slower than the previous 800 MHz iBook G3 iBook for non-Altivec stuff because of the smaller cache. It should perfom comparably to the 800 TiBook which is slower then the 800 G3 iBook for non-Altivec tasks!

this is a strange comment
1. what doesn't use altivec these days? the core of the OS uses altivec, even if an app doesnt specifically use it, many of the OS calls will benefit in some form
2. The G4 has a stronger FPU
3. things that really arent altivec optimized at all tend to not even need it....and while perhaps technically "slower", the difference is likely unnoticeable.


I expect the benchmarks too bitchslap the iBook G3/800, especially considering the new bus
post #132 of 236
I too am wondering why anyone would get a 1Ghz for $200 more than a 933Mhz?????

As was correctly pointed out earlier, a 40Gig to 60Gig HDD update only costs $50 - so does 67Mhz really make you want to dig deep with another $150?

post #133 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by kumrabai
I too am wondering why anyone would get a 1Ghz for $200 more than a 933Mhz?????

As was correctly pointed out earlier, a 40Gig to 60Gig HDD update only costs $50 - so does 67Mhz really make you want to dig deep with another $150?


a 1ghz G4 has such a ring to it... I'm sold.
post #134 of 236
I like this update a lot. We got decent graphics (my pet peeve) and internal Bluetooth. Both are low-cost but still important, I'd have hated it if either was missing. Apple R&D had their head screwed on right this time, and the new iBook delivers terrific value for money.

Let's take equal configurations of 12" PB and 12" iBook: 256Mb of memory, internal Bluetooth, 40Gb HD.
Powerbook is 1.950,78 euros, iBook is 1.278,00 euros.
That is a difference of 672,78 euros. No way in hell a better keyboard and a 25% speed bump are worth that much. Frankly, they should throw Radeon 9600 into the 12" PB, make the lighted keyboard standard accross the PB line, and then _maybe_ they'd be justified in keeping the 12" PB price where it stands now.

If only Apple would realize they are the last company on Earth to sell a laptop without video spanning (hacking aside). This runs totally counter to Apple's overall policy which is to introduce and make standard new features before the rest of the industry. Also pisses off people who are used to PCs and expect the Mac to be all PC's are, just better.
post #135 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by kumrabai
I too am wondering why anyone would get a 1Ghz for $200 more than a 933Mhz?????

As was correctly pointed out earlier, a 40Gig to 60Gig HDD update only costs $50 - so does 67Mhz really make you want to dig deep with another $150?


it's magic and called psychology.
a speedbump without actually offering a realistic speedbump. apple makes buyers wow about the fact the ibook also reached the 1Ghz line. a speedbump of 100Mhz over last springs 900Mhz G3. but this will actually cannibalise sales of the powerbook 12" and the 933Mhz ibook version if it was priced as low as, say $1399.00. so what apple is saying: if you really want more power: buy a powerbook for $100,00 more or pay for it dearly.
the 14" case of the 933Mhz and 1Ghz G4 ibook is there for a reason: heat. next update sports: a 7447 G4 @ 1Ghz and maybe a little beyond
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post #136 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Just placed my order: 12" iBook with 60GB hard drive and Bluetooth module.



Feels good...

What happened to the 15" PowerBook you were gonna get?

But yeah, I'm not getting a PowerBook 12" anymore. The only reason I was ever gonna choose that over an iBook is the G4 processor. Now that's gone...

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post #137 of 236
Has anyone noticed that a CD-ROM version is available to educators? Total price of this option = $949. For educators who have only a minimal need to burn CD's, this is a nice option.
post #138 of 236
Actually, it seems as though you can downgrade the 14" models to a CD-ROM drive from a Combo drive for a $100 price reduction, even if you're not an educational customer. The 12" can't have its drive custom configured except for the educational model, but the educational 12" CD-ROM one is only $50 less than the 12" Combo (educational price = $999) and it only comes with 128 MB of RAM. That's a pretty nasty hit for just $50 off. It should be $150 less, if the Combo is worth $100 more than the CD-ROM drive, and the extra 128 MB of RAM is worth $50 extra (Apple's price).
post #139 of 236
I just picked up a stock 12 inch iBook G4 from Apple Store Soho, it's pretty awesome. Definite speed increase from my iBook 500mhz and the kb feels better, at least to me. I'll post some pics soon.
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post #140 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by Curufinwe
First of all this rocks for most people! Now folks can get a low end ibook with combo drive for 1100 or less if you are a student. This is hugely important psychologically. Students will see an immediate improvement in MP3 ripping times

You mean AAC ripping times!

Quote:
Originally posted by satchmoe
The thing that strikes me is that they seem to have purposely crippled this 12" iBook in terms of processor speed. This is obviously so it doesn't tread into PB territory. But I think it also has to do with trying to push the 14" model which has historically not been a big seller.

They haven't really 'crippled' it. It's just that the range of iBooks is always meant to be cheaper. If they suddenly released a 1.42GHz iBook, well, first of all, it's not (realistically) going to happen for a while, even though they could do it, but secondly, it would be much more expensive than the PB at current. The PowerBooks are just there as a more professional and expensive option. That's my view anyway, feel free to correct me because I'm sure I'm not 100% right..

Quote:
Originally posted by Rewes
Well it´s only matter of days that i´am gonna buy my first mac ever
800MHz PowerPC G4
12-inch TFT Display
256MB DDR266 memory
DVD/CD-RW drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200

+40GB Ultra ATA drive and Pather 1000. Finally a mac that I can afford (I´am a student). I´am so happy

Nice one! Also, congratulations. I so want a laptop!!


Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
These look like sweet machines. If I didn't have all my money busy doing other things right now, I'd pick one up. Still might in 6 months or so.

~ In six months, the way things are going at Apple, you'll be considering a iBook G6..


Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
Random evil thought: Imagine the howling if the 12" iBook had a lighted keyboard?

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
A moment of silence please for the G3
...
..
..

Agreed. I leave you now with a stirring image.. May it be remembered, but not used again.. G5.. Mmmm..
Jimzip

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post #141 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by RageX
I just picked up a stock 12 inch iBook G4 from Apple Store Soho, it's pretty awesome. Definite speed increase from my iBook 500mhz and the kb feels better, at least to me. I'll post some pics soon.

And it's running Panther?????? <jealous>
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post #142 of 236
Yup, it is running Panther.
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post #143 of 236
From apple.com
" The worlds best-loved consumer portable gets an impressive makeover with a superfast PowerPC G4 processor, a new architecture, a slot-loading optical drive and enhanced wireless networking capabilities. Plus Mac OS X v10.3 Panther, the worlds most advanced operating system. "

Ooh.. This Saturday!
I can't wait to get to the store Saturday morning and be waiting at the door..

Jimzip
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post #144 of 236
Sneaky way to get it early
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post #145 of 236
Damn Australia and our cruddy $..

Panther - $229

iBook...12" $2255
...........14" $2626

Arg.. That's educational pricing too..

Jimzip
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post #146 of 236
All I can say is WOW, what a surprise!

Quote:
Originally posted by Phroggy
With the Powerbook, for only an extra $500 USD, you get:
  • An extra 200MHz
  • 256 MB soldered to the board (iBook: 128 on board/128 expansion)
  • 1.256GB memory ceiling (iBook: STILL 640)
  • 40, 60, 80 gig drive (iBook: 30, 40, 60)
  • Built-in Bluetooth
  • DVI
  • Double the L2 cache
  • GeForce FX Go5200 vs. Radeon 9200 and
  • Hackless Monitor Spanning

Not to mention the 12" PB is smaller and lighter, and it's on Rev B.

After owning PowerBooks for years, I switched to an iBook (Dual USB) in May 2001 because it was significantly smaller and lighter than the Titanium PowerBook. I have longed to return to the PowerBook camp ever since.

The Rev.A 12-inch PowerBook this January made the G4 available in the same 12-inch package. But I wanted DVI and waited for Rev.B. Then I decided to wait for Panther. And now there's the G4 iBook to contend with. After comparing 12-inch PowerBook and G4 iBook there's no question in my mind: The 12-inch PowerBook will be mine. The extra memory, processor speed and monitor spanning/DVI are worth an extra $400 (educational price is $999 for iBook v. $1399 for PowerBook) to me.

There are, however, two points that favor the iBook:

1. iBook has a 50W battery for 6 hour battery life (PB has 47W for 5 hours)
2. iBook is still more rugged (Alu will dent)

And of course the price/performance value of the iBook continues to be simply stellar.

Escher
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Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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"The only laptop computer that's useful is the one you have with you."
Until we get a 3 lbs sub-PowerBook, the 12-inch PowerBook will do.
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post #147 of 236
Do it.......buy the PB... you know you want to.

iBook is still more rugged

I beg to differ, the Alu seems to scratch less and marks wipe off. The 12" PB is the strongest laptop Apple has built in a long time.
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post #148 of 236
Jimzip, are you sure about those prices? For me, the educational store says the following:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jimzip
Damn Australia and our cruddy $..

Panther - $229

$129 educational; $229 full-price

Quote:
iBook...12" $2255

$1785.30

Quote:
...........14" $2626

$2161.5 or $2443.1, depending on processor speed

Quote:
Arg.. That's educational pricing too..

Jimzip [/B]

Its not the edu price for me; in fact, I'm wondering whose price it is... did you BTO these machines and forget to mention it?
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post #149 of 236
i just sold my ibook 600 and i was trying to get an old powermac g4 but now i may just buy a g4 ibook, they are damn cheap here in canada now, only 1500. but also the combo drive emac is only 1100 now with a 1Ghz processor, also tempting. i thought i would have to give up portability to get a g4 of a decent speed i could actually afford. now im more confused than ever :S
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post #150 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by BNOYHTUAWB
... don't forget: the new 12" 800MHz G4 iBook will actually be slower than the previous 800 MHz iBook G3 iBook for non-Altivec stuff because of the smaller cache. It should perfom comparably to the 800 TiBook which is slower then the 800 G3 iBook for non-Altivec tasks!

Maybe not -- the iBook G4 uses the 133 MHz MPX bus w/ DDR266, replacing the iBook G3's 100 MHz 60x bus w/ SDRAM100. This may make up for the reduction in L2 cache. While individual applications may not use AltiVec directly, many key functions in the OS do use it for things like memory management, networking, graphics, and audio. The amount of FPU usage has also been increasing steadily (thanks to things like Quartz) and the G4's FPU is better. While the 7445's pipelines are longer, it has more execution units, more rename registers, better branch prediction, more look aside tables and internal buffers, etc. We'll have to wait for benchmarks before making a pronouncement, but in most cases I think the new machines will kick butt.


Oh, and those people saying that the 12" PB's graphics are inferior should update their info -- the current 12" PB has a geForceFX Go5200, which ought to outperform the R9200 somewhat. nVidia's drivers will hopefully be updated soon (Panther?).
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post #151 of 236
Apple has impressed. People should pull out the most recent quote from the firm about how the G3 is a stellar chip for the iBook that will continue to power it for a long time.

I don't think it's too likely that Apple has rebranded a non-altivec chip a G4. And that's simply because it wouldn't be in the company's best interest. There's already enough overlap between the iBook 12" and PB 12", and Apple is interested in selling the PB over the iBook (remember, more expensive = higher margins).
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post #152 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
Let's take equal configurations of 12" PB and 12" iBook: 256Mb of memory, internal Bluetooth, 40Gb HD.
Powerbook is 1.950,78 euros, iBook is 1.278,00 euros.
That is a difference of 672,78 euros. No way in hell a better keyboard and a 25% speed bump are worth that much.

I see 1.912.40 euros on the French Apple web site, but still, that pricing is a bit whacked.

The base configurations in US dollars start out $1099 and $1599, a $500 difference, already a lot less that 672.78 euros. Together, adding internal Bluetooth and bumping the iBook's drive from 30 GB to 40 GB increases the iBook's price by $75, narrowing the difference with the PB to $425 -- equivalent to about $360 euros, at today's rate of exchange.

I can't imagine why the actual euro gap is so much bigger than the dollar gap in pricing between the two models. Some weird tariff on importing aluminum?
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post #153 of 236
Hey, what's that, 14" screens you say?

It's obvious that from here on out the 12" model will be Apple's half hearted effort. Their bottom iBook usually has been (ie, CD-rom only, not even DVD-rom, crappy opaque case -- before they all got it, etc etc...)

The speed difference is 133-200 vs the 14" models, and I'd look for that to grow over as the models are revised.

14" is the future, as I pointed out repeatedly! And, it was extremely overdue to move the iBook to a larger screen. The resolution is fine. iBooks are NOT made for the extreme mobility set. They're made for the budget buyer, and as budget machines, they look like pretty great deals! Because Apple has again disabled spanning, the bigger screen is a must for the budget buyer, it instantly restores the value proposition of the iBook (relative to their competition) The pixel pitch also helps a lot of the people who will buy these. Plenty of assinine web pages still exist, and this buyer will be an Office/web user primarily. Big pixels equals comfortable viewing.

What this update does is makea nice progression of options from budget to compact pro machine.

The 12" PB offers a lot of extras (more memory/storage/DVD, a better/stronger hinge/case and keyboard) and the price differences are not as huge as you may guess if you bump the RAM, HD, and add BT to the iBook configs.

But the options are there. Want a cheap machine? the iBook 12 is nice. Want a real solid consumer machine? The 14"ers are real nice too. Want a sleek traveling pro machine with DVD burning? The PB12 is still a great value for a fully loaded compact machine.

As I have stated all along, compact dimensions will come at a premium, though Apple will add niceities not found on the consumer models -- case/keyboard/burning options.
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post #154 of 236
12PB VS 12/14 IBOOK
which will run vpc 6.1 2k pro better? This update confuses me, or is it a toss up between the 12pb and the 14ibook; or just minimal differences--lets face it saving 4oo would pay for the ipod. if the ibook stayed g3 at 1gz then no brainer.
i will be buying a laptop for my wife with ipod, but i have one program that needs vpc
help me understand the functional differences
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post #155 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
Hey, what's that, 14" screens you say?

It's obvious that from here on out the 12" model will be Apple's half hearted effort. Their bottom iBook usually has been (ie, CD-rom only, not even DVD-rom, crappy opaque case -- before they all got it, etc etc...)

The speed difference is 133-200 vs the 14" models, and I'd look for that to grow over as the models are revised.

14" is the future, as I pointed out repeatedly! And, it was extremely overdue to move the iBook to a larger screen. The resolution is fine. iBooks are NOT made for the extreme mobility set. They're made for the budget buyer, and as budget machines, they look like pretty great deals! Because Apple has again disabled spanning, the bigger screen is a must for the budget buyer, it instantly restores the value proposition of the iBook (relative to their competition) The pixel pitch also helps a lot of the people who will buy these. Plenty of assinine web pages still exist, and this buyer will be an Office/web user primarily. Big pixels equals comfortable viewing.

What this update does is makea nice progression of options from budget to compact pro machine.

The 12" PB offers a lot of extras (more memory/storage/DVD, a better/stronger hinge/case and keyboard) and the price differences are not as huge as you may guess if you bump the RAM, HD, and add BT to the iBook configs.

But the options are there. Want a cheap machine? the iBook 12 is nice. Want a real solid consumer machine? The 14"ers are real nice too. Want a sleek traveling pro machine with DVD burning? The PB12 is still a great value for a fully loaded compact machine.

As I have stated all along, compact dimensions will come at a premium, though Apple will add niceities not found on the consumer models -- case/keyboard/burning options.

In marketing speak, it's called differentiation.

If the "low-end" 12" model featured a 1GHz G4, wouldn't be much reason to buy the top-end model (aside from the bigger screen).

I'm going to reserve judgement until I see the screen, but it'll be a pretty tough pick between the 12" model at $1400 (CND educational) and the 17" mid-range model at $1700 CND.
post #156 of 236
Few questions before I go and buy my iBook.

1) The new iBook has the resolution of 1024x768. So does that mean that I can´t use an external 19" monitor with the resolution of 1280x1024 with it?
2) Does the apple logo on the top/cover/case(whatever) "glow"?

Thanks
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post #157 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by NOFEER
12PB VS 12/14 IBOOK
which will run vpc 6.1 2k pro better?

VPC is cache (L2 and L3) hungry. I would say the powerbook with double the L2 cache will manage better, perhaps significantly better.
post #158 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by Rewes
Few questions before I go and buy my iBook.

1) The new iBook has the resolution of 1024x768. So does that mean that I can´t use an external 19" monitor with the resolution of 1280x1024 with it?
2) Does the apple logo on the top/cover/case(whatever) "glow"?

Thanks

1) officially, only Video Mirroring is supported (same res as main screen)
so out of the box, your iBook will only drive externals at 1024x768 max

_unofficially_, with the Spanning hack, current iBook users report externals up to 1600x1200.
if the same hack (or variation of it) still works, you could see higher res on an external 19"

2) current iBooks do have the lid Apple lit by the screen backlight.
Almost certain the new ones will maintain this 'feature'.
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post #159 of 236
ANY updates a good update. I just got my 1.25 pbook and i don't really care if they release a g5 next week, i'm in luv!!!
(except for the screen issues.... but they'll fix it, so whatever!)8)
post #160 of 236
Quote:
Originally posted by Rewes
Few questions before I go and buy my iBook.

1) The new iBook has the resolution of 1024x768. So does that mean that I can´t use an external 19" monitor with the resolution of 1280x1024 with it?
2) Does the apple logo on the top/cover/case(whatever) "glow"?

Thanks

When using the laptop as intended by Apple (from the factory), you will only be able to MIRROR the display at 1024x768 (or 800x600 or 640x480 if you want). That means that the built in display and the external display will display the same exact thing. The internal display can't go to 1280x1024 so no, you will not be able to run an external monitor at that resolution. The iBook is only intended to be used for connecting to projectors, really.

However, there is a "spanning hack" that will let you use external monitors in extended desktop mode - instead of displaying the same thing as your built-in display, it will increase your screen area and let you use both screens at once. That goes up to 1600x1200 I think. The spanning hack will officially void your warranty but don't worry, I've sent my iBook in for warranty repairs after doing the hack and Apple didn't say anything to me about it. I think it's safe but if you have doubts wait until other people try it with their new G4 iBooks.

Although I haven't seen one in person, I'm assuming the Apple logo glows because every previous revision of the iBook, all the way back to the 500 MHz dual USB ones, had a glowing Apple logo.
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