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Panther: Annoyances

post #1 of 97
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

This thread is for things that annoy you with Panther. Whether it's a new bug, performance issues vs. previous Mac OS X versions, etc.

I'll start:

I don't like how servers are handled in Panther. I can connect to my other Mac OS X Panther computer via Rendevous, and for some reason, I cannot disconnect from it, it seems. If the other computer gets shut off, the Finder hangs. Of course, I have only played with this new OS for a couple of days, but for non-technical people would be freaked out by the beach ball in the Finder. It turned my Ti867 really hot, both fans were buzzing hard to exhaust the heat, and I ended up doing a hard reboot and all was well.

I don't like how the System Preferences quit when you press the close window widget. I also dislike how System Preferences get pokey changing and selecting when other things are running in the background. They seem to reflect something going on in the background. I thought this wasn't supposed to be the case?

I'm really annoyed that I had to do a clean install to improve performance on my Quicksilver. Granted, I had never done a wipe and install since I received that computer in late January 2002, however, it runs really well now that I have done the clean install. It took me all day to get it close to the way I had it. I'm really worried about loosing files, and this just reinforces that I need to set up a backup program and schedule regular backups.

Lastly, the sidebar. I sometimes get confused with the sidebar and other applications, like iTunes. I guess I'm not used to it totally yet.
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post #2 of 97
Small annoyance: when I use Expose to show all application windows, background apps don't gray out like they're supposed to. If I go All Windows then Applications Windows, the apps do gray out, confusingly! I still ally like Expose. (Please excuse bad spelling in last part, I can't see what I'm typing)
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post #3 of 97
I visited my local Apple store Friday night -- an hour wait outside (quite warm for October). Demoed "fast-user-switching" bogged down on newest eMac (128 MB RAM). Left store empty handed, except for two (2) sets of Panther dog tags!

Read two days worth of Panther experiences on MacInTouch. Sounds like our "computer-for-the-rest-of-us" has become the "computer-for-UNIX-geeks" among us. Wait 'till next year.
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post #4 of 97
lay off the crack, man.
post #5 of 97
Let me premise this by saying that I really, really like Panther and consider it far, far more of a plus than a minus. But a few little things do bug me.

I've already started a separate thread about Windows file server browsing not working.

Let's see what else I can think of...

* Icon views are too w-i-d-e. I'd like to be able to narrow the spacing of grids of Finder icons. A lot.

* I'm often getting a spinning rainbow cursor for 2-4 seconds when I click on iTunes after iTunes has been in the background.

* When Backup goes off unattended on it's scheduled 2:00 am back-up, I find a dialog waiting for me in the morning saying that I need to sign up for .Mac to back up to my iDisk. However, I already have a valid iDisk and .Mac account, and if I manually do my iDisk back up, there's no problem at all. (I'm now running Backup 2.0 beta because I was told the old Backup didn't work with Panther at all.)
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post #6 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by Locomotive
I visited my local Apple store Friday night -- an hour wait outside (quite warm for October). Demoed "fast-user-switching" bogged down on newest eMac (128 MB RAM). Left store empty handed, except for two (2) sets of Panther dog tags!

Read two days worth of Panther experiences on MacInTouch. Sounds like our "computer-for-the-rest-of-us" has become the "computer-for-UNIX-geeks" among us. Wait 'till next year.

Why, do you think Panther is going to go away? They're only going to add more to it, it won't change.
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----- Fred Blassie 1964
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post #7 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by ryaxnb
Small annoyance: when I use Expose to show all application windows, background apps don't gray out like they're supposed to. If I go All Windows then Applications Windows, the apps do gray out, confusingly! I still ally like Expose. (Please excuse bad spelling in last part, I can't see what I'm typing)

What do you mean?

"when I use Expose to show all application windows, background apps don't gray out like they're supposed to." Why would they? If you are showing all application windows how can there even be any background apps visible at all, "grayed out" or not? You won't see anything except the darkened Finder backgound and all windows reduced and of equal brightness.

Besides it's not graying anything out, it's applying 80% or so translucent black over the colors.
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post #8 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
I'm often getting a spinning rainbow cursor for 2-4 seconds when I click on iTunes after iTunes has been in the background.

iTunes started doing this after the 4.1 update in Jaguar. It's extremely annoying.
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I don't like how servers are handled in Panther. I can connect to my other Mac OS X Panther computer via Rendevous, and for some reason, I cannot disconnect from it, it seems. If the other computer gets shut off, the Finder hangs.

I have no trouble using Rendevous to connect to servers, but I was unable to disconnect from the network properly when I used the Network icon (as opposed to Connect to Server). When I finally physically disconnected the two, I got the neverending beachball of doom. I thought Panther was supposed to implement OS 9-style graceful server disconnect? Anyway, this was somewhat annoying too.

Overall though, I must say that I'm pleased. It seems like a fairly reliable update and the pros definitely outweigh the cons.
post #9 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
* Icon views are too w-i-d-e. I'd like to be able to narrow the spacing of grids of Finder icons. A lot.

I second that. I wonder what caused them to extend the spacing...

A few other things:
-- The updater deleted /Users/Shared with no warning at all. Ergh!
-- Printing web pages with frames from Safari doesn't work right: it prints a screen shot of the window (including the scroll bar) instead of the full contents of the frame on the page.
-- In text entry boxes in Safari the cursor sometimes gets a space ahead of the text entry point (like right now).
-- When using spring loaded folders to do drag-and-drop, the second level folder of the drag always seem to revert to Brushed Metal, even if it is normally standard Aqua (i.e. no tool- or side-bar).
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post #10 of 97
Ugh. I'm having lots of bugs.
Apps crashing without notice, doing the Houdini and then giving the 'Send bug report?' message.. OpenGL playing up a lot. I even did a clean install after zeroing the HD, hehe, now things are still going wrong, just really fast..


Can't complain much though, I love all the new features, and it really is faster..

Jimzip
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post #11 of 97
okay I did an Archive and install over 10.2.8 which I installed back in the beginning of the summer when I got My PowerBook Ti 1Ghz. I had a few problems. Firewall was screwed up but I flushed it and now it works. My icons were all screwed up so I deleted the finder preference file and that fixed that. I don't have any other problems to speak of. If I search the whole hardrive I get a little hang using the live searching. I have over 40GBs though so that is a lot to seach through using a 4200rpm laptop drive. Mail froze up on me while using the DVD player... mmm thats about it. I feel like the OS is more stable and all. Most of the little problems I had I have fixed. Now all that pisses me off is the hang while searching the whole drive. Maybe I'll get a 7200rpm drive to fix that. You think that would make it better? Things are much faster than in Jaguar. Apps open about 20% faster and the system is at leat 30% more responsive over all. Apps use less CPU as well. itunes now only uses about 4% of the CPU while playing music it used to use 11% or more. I am very happy by the time we are at 10.3.1 we should have a near perfect OS. I doubt apple will need to have as many point releases this time around. Mayby up to 1.3.5 or somthing but not any higher. Jaguar had a lot more bugs in it at 10.2.0 than panther does. Very happy. I feel Like i bought a new comp
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post #12 of 97
here are my annoyances:

tibook 500, was running 10.2.8, did an update-install and everything runs fine except the finder: when i have lots of files on the desktop and i want to move them (more than 1) to somwhere else, the finder dispappears. it seems like it's crashing and restarting every time!!

very strange.

anyone else noticed this? maybe a clean-install will help or maybe deleting the finder-prefs?

ah and something funny's going on here too: with PHTiTunes-notifier running, i cannot quit iTunes anymore: apple-Q for quitting and after two seconds iTunes relaunches by itself ...

but I'm still in love with panther! great update.
post #13 of 97
Locomotiv has hit the nail on the head.
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post #14 of 97
Ya'll have to remember that this is 10.3, not 10.3.5 or something like that. It is in many ways a new OS. There are going to be bugs, there are going to be little annoyances. There were some with Jaguar. There were tons with the original OS X. I know this doesn't make any of this better, but we will soon see improvement. Give Apple feedback, let them know what you want changed and they will listen. We're gonna see 10.3.1 soon enough, that should solve many problems. Like I said, tell Apple, if they don't know what we like and don't like, nothing will get fixed!
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post #15 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
What do you mean?

"when I use Expose to show all application windows, background apps don't gray out like they're supposed to." Why would they? If you are showing all application windows how can there even be any background apps visible at all, "grayed out" or not? You won't see anything except the darkened Finder backgound and all windows reduced and of equal brightness.

Besides it's not graying anything out, it's applying 80% or so translucent black over the colors.

Oops, sorry, I meant all windows in the current application.
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post #16 of 97
Macintouch is still a hotbed of bitch-and-moaners. Oh, that's not a Panther annoyance....

What shetline said.
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post #17 of 97
The mouse speed/acceleration in OS X is still really horrible. It's just too unnatural. Of course, you can use 3rd party software to tweak the acceleration, but the built in acceleration is just plain bad and should be made better.. like it was in OS 9.

If you move the mouse slowly, the cursor will pretty much not move at all. Move the mouse quickly, and the cursor will jump across the screen too fast. This makes gaming and any graphics-intensive work impossible to do well. I wish they would just turn the acceleration OFF by default and gives more true, natural-feeling cursor movement.
post #18 of 97
I miss the option of putting the clock in the dock.
post #19 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by eVo
and any graphics-intensive work impossible to do well.

wtf!
post #20 of 97
wait is 7b85 the final version?

Mines on its way in the mail... but I got ahold of 7b85 from a techie I know in town that got it, and tried it but he said it wasn't the final. Anyways... can't wait to get mine.
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post #21 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by kraig911
wait is 7b85 the final version?

Mines on its way in the mail... but I got ahold of 7b85 from a techie I know in town that got it, and tried it but he said it wasn't the final. Anyways... can't wait to get mine.

Look on the bright side: that's one more sale for Apple, contributing to their sales figures, and you get the nice shiny box and the nice shiny new CDs. All yours, all for you. Mmmmmm... shiny new CDs...

post #22 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by sc_markt
I miss the option of putting the clock in the dock.

Ask someone to give you clock.app. I still use it. It still works in Panther.
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post #23 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimzip
Ugh. I'm having lots of bugs.
Apps crashing without notice, doing the Houdini and then giving the 'Send bug report?' message.. OpenGL playing up a lot. I even did a clean install after zeroing the HD, hehe, now things are still going wrong, just really fast..


Can't complain much though, I love all the new features, and it really is faster..

Jimzip

Jimzip, I am having the exact same problem. all my apps keep quitting on me! it happens very often, and it is unacceptable. if you figure it out, please tell me what you did to fix it. thanks!

i just want to add that this is on a new Alu-PB15 1 Ghz. but Panther on my older iMac 800mhz is running pretty smoothly.
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post #24 of 97
I'm not sure if this was mentioned. The Desktop keeps finding its way back into my Sidebar, after I have unchecked it numerous in the Finder prefs. The Mac OS X Finder, all versions, are really good at losing user settings and preferences...
post #25 of 97
I only had Jaguar on my new dual G5 for a couple of weeks before I installed Panther, so I don't have a good frame of reference for what is specific to Panther.

iTunes:
The couple second delay when switching to the app is extremely annoying.

The stutter sometimes when dragging album artwork into the app.

Finder:
Failed network actions causing the Finder be force quitted.

I wish there was an up button in addition to the forward and back buttons.

The spacing in icon view is way too much.

In icon or list view, dragging an item up one or more levels in the same window doesn't seem possible.

Dock:
I wish clicking on a dock icon would toggle show/hide, not just show.

Safari:
Crashes. Not all the time but given enough time it will invariably crash.

Mail:
I don't know if it is a mail server or Mail app problem, but I get the authentication failed dialog box multiple times a day. I really wish there was an option to always assume the login/password for email accounts is valid so I don't ever have to retype my password ever again.
post #26 of 97
1) fax options too limited eg
a)cant manually acept a fax call over a voice fax/line
b)no options for custom cover pages
2) I cant get a remote server into the side bar so i can mount it in the open dialogue ( used to use the favourites).


Apart from that I think is a pretty solid effort
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post #27 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by Tuttle
Finder:
I wish there was an up button in addition to the forward and back buttons.

Cmd-up arrow.

Quote:
Safari:
Crashes. Not all the time but given enough time it will invariably crash.

Well that's kinda true of *all* software, sadly...

Quote:
Mail:
I don't know if it is a mail server or Mail app problem, but I get the authentication failed dialog box multiple times a day. I really wish there was an option to always assume the login/password for email accounts is valid so I don't ever have to retype my password ever again.

Check the 'Remember my password' box in that dialog box. It will store the password in your default Keychain, and use it from them on. (Keychain is an encrypted database so saving your password in there is safe.)
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post #28 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Check the 'Remember my password' box in that dialog box. It will store the password in your default Keychain, and use it from them on. (Keychain is an encrypted database so saving your password in there is safe.)

If his problem is the same problem I've seen (in OS X generally) that's not going to help, because it's already checked.

If it's set to automatically check for mail, every so often there will be a glitch of some sort, the password will be refused, and Mail will ask for another one - even though the correct password is stored in Mail. It's easy to confirm, because if you enter the correct password into the dialog it'll still fail. It's a wierd hiccup. I think Tuttle would prefer less obtrusive behavior and a bit more intelligence on Mail's part ("gee, this password worked five minutes ago...").

I also have a similar complaint where, upon wake from sleep, Mail will spam me with "Could not connect" dialogs all stacked on top of each other, apparently because it takes my broadband router a second too long to reestablish access. A little grace period after wake from sleep would fix that.
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post #29 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by Tuttle
I wish there was an up button in addition to the forward and back buttons.

Command-(up arrowkey) moves you into the parent directory.
post #30 of 97
Don't forget the path widget in the Finder toolbar.
post #31 of 97
Jimzip-- check your system log. looks like my problems under 10.3 are being caused by prebinding errors. everytime one of my apps crashed it said "could not be launched prebound." now, if i only knew what that meant and how to fix it... (reinstalling doesnt help.)
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post #32 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by mac's girl
Jimzip-- check your system log. looks like my problems under 10.3 are being caused by prebinding errors. everytime one of my apps crashed it said "could not be launched prebound." now, if i only knew what that meant and how to fix it... (reinstalling doesnt help.)

geek method (may require enabling root to perform fixes):

Quote:
OS X will give you the following regarding prebinding from the Terminal window by typing:

man update_prebinding

update_prebinding tries to synchronize prebinding information for libraries and executables when new files are added to a system. Prebinding information is precalculated address information for libraries used by a given executable or library. By predetermining where a function in another library is destined to be placed, the dynamic linker does not have to resolve symbols at application startup time, and the application can launch faster.

Because each recompilation of a library or executable may place functions at different addresses, a newly installed library or executable's prebinding information might not match the libraries already on the disk. When the dynamic linker determines that prebinding information

update_prebinding ensures that prebinding information is up-to-date after new prebound applications or new versions of system libraries are installed. Given a list of the newly installed files in a package, up date_prebinding finds all the libraries and executables that may dynamically load the changed files. If so, the prebinding information must be updated, and update_prebinding performs redo_prebinding to update that file. update_prebinding builds a dependency graph to minimize the files that must be updated, and applies a few other heuristics to only call redo_prebinding when necessary.

Please Note: Root and terminal are not for newbies... easy to bork your system with improper wildcard use
if you want fix it tips with root access, search for a post by ZO with "prebinding" in the text. blame him. :P


not-so-geek method (updated with Panther support this week):
Maintain1 5.5 (via VersionTracker)

Quote:
maintain1 is a GUI to run terminal scripts mainly for people who forget shell commands, don't like to type or if you just don't know any commands. This application allows you to click a button or a drop down menu item, and this will open the terminal application and run the associated script, buttons buttons update_prebind, Findtext view ascii tables, monitor system top command, FTP log system profile, netinfo log Apache error log Apache access log System log, whats running list all ports, info for a port current connections, ppp log Daily, weekly Monthy, all three back to back.view all open files button, ppp0, en0, en1, and en2 buttons to force delete a file and a button to force delete the trash, rebuild desktop script, netspeedup, renice, Disk usage, Kill anything button, cups logs, lpr logs, enable journal file system, repair premissions... remote running of any of these commands, screen capture.

What's New:
Version 5.5:
Added a script to enable the Exposé floater
Added script to start or stop these services: {smtp, fax-receive, auth, chargen, chargen-udp, comsat, daytime, daytime-udp, echo, echo-udp, eppc, exec, finger, ftp, login, nmbd, ntalk, printer, shell, smb-direct, smbd, ssh, swat, telnet, tftp, time, time-udp}
minor changes to interface

Requirements:
Mac OS X 10.2 or later.

hope it helps... will be testing myself later this week post Panther install
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post #33 of 97
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
If his problem is the same problem I've seen (in OS X generally) that's not going to help, because it's already checked.


Yes, exactly.

I used to get the same problem with Eudora on my old windows 2000 machine. So I assume it is the mail server returning an authentication failure and not a problem with Mail.
post #34 of 97
by Amorph
Quote:
If his problem is the same problem I've seen (in OS X generally) that's not going to help, because it's already checked.

If it's set to automatically check for mail, every so often there will be a glitch of some sort, the password will be refused, and Mail will ask for another one - even though the correct password is stored in Mail. It's easy to confirm, because if you enter the correct password into the dialog it'll still fail. It's a wierd hiccup. I think Tuttle would prefer less obtrusive behavior and a bit more intelligence on Mail's part ("gee, this password worked five minutes ago...").

I get this frequently during the day. End up clicking on the cancel button and then hiding mail. Annoying.
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post #35 of 97
ScreenSaver now makes me wake up from the screen saver THEN log back in.

Back in Panther, I could log in, which would both wake up from the screen saver AND log me in...
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post #36 of 97
I can't figure out why the icon for my Epson Stylus Photo 1270 is blurry in Panther. I also find the print dialog more confusing than Jag.
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post #37 of 97
It's the little things that bug me. Here's one for you.

Open up a finder window in list view with only a few items in it. Make sure the window is not full.

Now in Jaguar, I could click in the open white space below the list and drag to select as many items as I want. Easy, right?

In Panther, I can't select items in list view without clicking on the line of one of the items. You can't click below the last item and drag up. What upsets me the most is that this DOES work in column view!! Click below and drag right up. Sucky.

Hope this wasn't too confusing. Anyone else bothered by this??

-----------------
RosettaStoned
post #38 of 97
"Open up a finder window in list view..."

Yeah, I see what you are talking about. Strange. Very un-Apple.

There should be a rubber band box, or whatever it's called these days.
post #39 of 97
After choosing Log out from the Apple menu, it takes Panther more than 15 secs to actually log out. I can't figure out why there is a delay, like it actually has to think before logging out. Logging in also takes a while longer than Jaguar.
post #40 of 97
Here's another annoyance. The black CDs get really damned hot!
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