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Xserve: Where the frick is G5 Xserve ??

post #1 of 41
10/31/03 at 10:32pm
Thread Starter 
what in tarnation is keeping G5 Xserve from release?

these guys are killing me. they're screwing up my whole time frame. c'mon release already. how long have the G5s been out? they can't cram one into a pizza box for me? ooo this makes me so mad. get it out. get it out already.


even the rumor sites have little to offer in the way of hopeful tidbits.


who in their right mind is going to buy a G4 Xserve now?

what kind of sense does it make to have this product line langiushing like this?

now that Panther is out - there is no excuse.
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post #2 of 41
11/1/03 at 4:02am
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns
who in their right mind is going to buy a G4 Xserve now?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a G4 Xserve - it's fast for many things.

But I can tell you one thing. Oracle 10g will be released for all other platforms late this year and early next year for Mac OS X.

The reason is not a technical one but a marketing one. How 'bout a G5 Xserve running Oracle 10g (which would just love the 64bit processort) announced in January.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #3 of 41
11/1/03 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns

who in their right mind is going to buy a G4 Xserve now?

Me.

That's who. I bought one last week because I need a server NOW not RSN.
meh
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meh
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post #4 of 41
11/1/03 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns
who in their right mind is going to buy a G4 Xserve now?

I bought one a few weeks ago direct from Apple because they offered me one hell of a deal. They're probably trying to clear inventory of the G4 versions by cutting prices. I have no regrets.
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post #5 of 41
11/1/03 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns
what in tarnation is keeping G5 Xserve from release?

these guys are killing me. they're screwing up my whole time frame. c'mon release already. how long have the G5s been out? they can't cram one into a pizza box for me? ooo this makes me so mad. get it out. get it out already.


It does seem to be taking a bit of time doesn't it. I have to believe that there was some parallel design activity between the desktop and the server implenmentations so you have to wonder whats up.
Quote:
even the rumor sites have little to offer in the way of hopeful tidbits.

Yep people are slipping here a bit. On the other hand server users probally aren't preoccupied with rumors.
Quote:


who in their right mind is going to buy a G4 Xserve now?

Well I would, if one I had the money and two could get the discounts I keep hearing about. Lets face it ths is one nice little machine and as far as "server form factor" hardware goes very flexible.

Granted I would be kick my self in the Hieneken if the new 970 based machines came out a week later. I would on the other hand realise that the G4 will perform nicely for some time.

The biggest fear is that the new system will be more radical then mayby some suspect. Too radical and I would have very little need for it. I'd be perfectly happy with a 970 based XServe with more or less the same features as we currently have just alot faster. I hope Apple is listening here, but one of the most importnat features to retain is the abiltiy to plug in a high pefromance video card.
Quote:

what kind of sense does it make to have this product line langiushing like this?

now that Panther is out - there is no excuse.
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post #6 of 41
11/1/03 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by Kernel Panic
I bought one a few weeks ago direct from Apple because they offered me one hell of a deal. They're probably trying to clear inventory of the G4 versions by cutting prices. I have no regrets.

So just how good is that deal now adays?

Dave
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post #7 of 41
11/1/03 at 12:00pm
Quote:
I have to believe that there was some parallel design activity between the desktop and the server implenmentations so you have to wonder whats up.

Yeah except for that server not failing part. You don't ship servers that might be failsafe, especially if you are trying to get into the market. Maybe servers have a slightly longer product test cycle?
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post #8 of 41
11/1/03 at 4:06pm
Hmmm, lets see, Apple have just rolled out a new cpu, with completely new system architecture, and a new OS.

I think they are doing the right thing spreading out the roll out of G5 machines. How long did it take for pentium 4's to become standard fare after their release?

I expect that Apple have done heaps of work preparing other machines for G5, but, they do have limited hardware design capabilities, and they will be waiting to see that all of the major isssues with the powermac are ironed out. Expect the G5 roll out to take a year. Untill then, buy a powermac and put it in the bottom of the rack.
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post #9 of 41
11/1/03 at 5:58pm
Remember, stability is the most important thing in the server market. I don't think we will see a G5 Xserve until we get OS 10.3.1. It is far better for Apple to take its time and come out with a super stable server than rush out the fastest one they can with only so so reliability.
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post #10 of 41
11/2/03 at 10:35am
I certainly don't diagree with your statements, servers do have to be reliable. But we have to consider how long the 970 has been available to Apple before the G5 was even announced. Since Apple was at ground level with the development of the 970, that means that they most likely have had access to these chips for a couple of years now.

If there is alot of development going on with XServe right now then we must be looking at something with slightly radical changes from the current XServe. That is my suspicion anyways. What that may be is up in the air at the moment, but a system with hot swappable blades would be cool. That is just wild speculation so don't hold me to the swappable blade idea.

Thanks
Dave



Quote:
Originally posted by Res
Remember, stability is the most important thing in the server market. I don't think we will see a G5 Xserve until we get OS 10.3.1. It is far better for Apple to take its time and come out with a super stable server than rush out the fastest one they can with only so so reliability.
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post #11 of 41
11/2/03 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
Since Apple was at ground level with the development of the 970, that means that they most likely have had access to these chips for a couple of years now.

Perhaps, but it wasn't finished until a couple months ago. Now it needs to show stability before they will use it in a server.

As I said before, the little tidbit I heard from an Oracle employee gives me a feeling that Apple will release a G5 Xserve in January/February.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #12 of 41
11/2/03 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns
they can't cram one into a pizza box for me?

In addtition to all the good points regarding dependability, I think your pizza box would be a pizza oven using the current form factor. Maybe they'll come out with a bigger box for the G5 and keep the G4 1U around for those who don't need the power of the G5. Then again I'm out of my depth when it comes to servers, so what do i know.
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post #13 of 41
11/2/03 at 7:58pm
Thread Starter 
Pizza, NOW!
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post #14 of 41
11/4/03 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
... As I said before, the little tidbit I heard from an Oracle employee gives me a feeling that Apple will release a G5 Xserve in January/February.

Good, there are tidbits on Macrumors about Xserve G5 in 4 months or so. Should make for a very nice Oracle 10g configuration.

Meantime, for file and web, G4 Xserve is plenty fast enough.
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post #15 of 41
11/4/03 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
Good, there are tidbits on Macrumors about Xserve G5 in 4 months or so. Should make for a very nice Oracle 10g configuration.

Meantime, for file and web, G4 Xserve is plenty fast enough.

I'm thinkin' BIG MAC ... it's getting HUGE press for Apple, and you can bet the moment they get the 970 down to 90nm, it'll be slammed into an Xserve faster than you can say "Take THAT Itanic!".

Oddly enough, Apple may have finally found a way into the enterprise!

Stop and think about this one folks, cause this kind of irony can only be measured on the Richter scale ... Apple, the "Toy" computer, the computer news.com is so fond of saying yer mother uses 'cause it's so cute, finally makes it's way into the enterprise NOT by way of the desk of the administrative assistant (as everyone thought it might, since it's so easy to use) ... au contraire! but rather, as the most powerful cluster beast IT types in their brightest compensatory fantasies can ever hope to dream of ... go ahead, pinch yourself, this is really happening!

Gentlemen, I believe we have finally found the thin edge of the wedge, in the last place we ever expected.

cheers!
<says the proud owner of a '98 Penfold's Grange>
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post #16 of 41
11/4/03 at 11:34pm
Thread Starter 
that's all well and good yet i'm still all strung out here on...


Quote:
"imminent"

!
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post #17 of 41
11/5/03 at 2:06am
Where the frick is my G4 Xserve?

Ordered it 2 weeks ago and it's still 'being reviewed' ...
meh
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meh
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post #18 of 41
11/5/03 at 2:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Where the frick is my G4 Xserve?

Ordered it 2 weeks ago and it's still 'being reviewed' ...


nice purchase harald!
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post #19 of 41
11/5/03 at 3:34am
Quote:
Originally posted by othello
nice purchase harald!

It's shipping today (just found out). So, ***confirmed*** G5 Xserve released tomorrow!
meh
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post #20 of 41
11/5/03 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns
who in their right mind is going to buy a G4 Xserve now?

Actually I'm hoping that Apple uppdates the G4(to use 7457s) Xserve AND releases a G5 Xserve. Why you migh ask?
It's because they appeal (strongly) to different markets, the G5 is for people who want maximum preformace/initial price quote whereas the G4 is for people
who want not only the above but low running and "space" costs.

Let me explain, say that you are running a serverfarm, first you will wan't to have to use as small a space as possible for minimum rental and maintanence costs
(the G4 Xserve would most likely use a smaller formfactor then the G5) secondly you want a CPU with a good MIPS/Watt quote, so that your running costs and heat evacuation costs are kept to a minimum. So IMO the G4 (7457) preforms "good enough" while keeping costs down to a minimum, a feature that undoubtedly will sell some servers.
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post #21 of 41
11/8/03 at 5:31am
this is how i think the G5 will spread to the other macs:

Early-Mid 2004 G5 Xserves

Mid-Late 2004 G5 iMacs (revamped) or some oher replacement
product line

Late 2004- Early 2005 Powerbook G5

Mid 2005 G5 eMacs or some other replacement product line

Late 2006 G5 iBooks

2007 Introduction of G6 in Powermac?
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post #22 of 41
11/8/03 at 5:40am
A little bird said to me that IBM will release G5 based blade-modules next week. 2x 1.6 GHz 970 for $2700. If IBM can put two of these in a blade, surely Apple can do the same, don't you think?
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post #23 of 41
11/8/03 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally posted by Henriok
A little bird said to me that IBM will release G5 based blade-modules next week. 2x 1.6 GHz 970 for $2700. If IBM can put two of these in a blade, surely Apple can do the same, don't you think?

1U?
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post #24 of 41
11/8/03 at 9:28am
umm, you know what a blade is, do you?
Matyoroy!
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post #25 of 41
11/8/03 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally posted by G-News
umm, you know what a blade is, do you?

Ummm, yes. You know that I didn't see that, do[n't] you?
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post #26 of 41
11/10/03 at 3:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by Henriok
A little bird said to me that IBM will release G5 based blade-modules next week. 2x 1.6 GHz 970 for $2700. If IBM can put two of these in a blade, surely Apple can do the same, don't you think?

Are you Think Secret?
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post #27 of 41
11/10/03 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 
where's ours?
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post #28 of 41
11/10/03 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
Are you Think Secret?

No, but I guess that either did the same bird chirp in Think Secret's ear, or another bird chirped the same information, or did Think Secret see my comment and did som digging by themselves.
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post #29 of 41
11/10/03 at 10:18am
Either the 1.6Ghz runs cooler than we think or else IBM is pulling off some pretty good cooling tricks to stuff two of them in a 1U.
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post #30 of 41
11/10/03 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesigns
where's ours?

I wouldn't be surprised if IBM had some little contractual clause that gave them first crack at coming out with PPC970 server iron.
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post #31 of 41
11/10/03 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by opuscroakus
Either the 1.6Ghz runs cooler than we think or else IBM is pulling off some pretty good cooling tricks to stuff two of them in a 1U.

Uh, they are not talking about a 1U server...

They are talking about IBM blade servers...

An IBM blade server is 7U, and can hold up to 14 blades, each blade carrying 2 CPUs...

So we are talking about a possible maximum of 28 PPC970 CPUs in 7U of space...

Can you say 7U Shake/Maya/RenderMan renderfarm?!? (assuming of course. that Apple comes out with their own blade server...)

Sweet!
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post #32 of 41
11/10/03 at 1:50pm
Why oh why do we keep coming back to this cooling issue! Cooling high performance processors in a 1U form factor has been solved and was solved a long time ago. Plus the form factor mentioned is a blade which could end up having the processors installed in a much high density than the 1U dual SMP machine would imply.

There could be many reasons for IBM to take so long to bring these to market beyond reducing power. One of the most rational reasons would be more cache. Or it might be that IBM is waiting one things from the land of LINUX to stabilize with respect to PPC. It is hihgly unlikely though that any of IBM's delays are due to cooling problems in a 1U form factor.

Thanks
Dave



Quote:
Originally posted by opuscroakus
Either the 1.6Ghz runs cooler than we think or else IBM is pulling off some pretty good cooling tricks to stuff two of them in a 1U.
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post #33 of 41
11/11/03 at 4:48am
Cant think of one valid reason for Apple to delay their blade server when the IBM 970 Linux server is out of the door8)
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post #34 of 41
11/11/03 at 5:31am
Um, so far, there are no news about Apple evening thinking about building a blade system.
Matyoroy!
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post #35 of 41
11/11/03 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally posted by DrBoar
Cant think of one valid reason for Apple to delay their blade server

No, but just to make things extremely clear:

The density of a blade system is approximately twice as high as in a 1U system. If IBM can manage the heat in a blade, then Apple can do it in a regular case. Therefore, it's stupid not to expect Xserve G5 in a 1U rack case.

Apple is not expected to realse any blade systems. I really can't think of any reason why they should.
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post #36 of 41
11/11/03 at 7:20am
You can fit six 7U blade servers in a 42U rack. Assuming each blade has 28 PowerPC 970s, then each rack has 168 PowerPC 970s. So, with approximately thirteen 42U racks you could reproduce BigMac.
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post #37 of 41
11/11/03 at 7:46am
I did mean 1U servers using the 970, replacing the current dual G4 xserver, not a blade, sorry about that. Perhaps Apple can even user faster 970 than 1.6 Ghz for that...
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post #38 of 41
11/11/03 at 1:57pm
There's little reason for Apple to be unable to fit dual G5s in this:



...when Newisys was able to ship something like this:



Kind of similar looking, aren't they.
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post #39 of 41
11/12/03 at 11:41am
bunge nailed it.

I'd have to say that new G5 Xserves are due shortly. Just stumbled across a link to this
product overview in the Macintoshian Achaia forums @ Ars Technica.

page 17 of the "Official 2nd Perpetual 970 and G5
Architecture Thread" by Dave_K.



Thought I'd add that there is a "buy now" link on
IBM's product overview site, that would mean
well you know, this isn't vaporware.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #40 of 41
11/12/03 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by rickag
I'd have to say that new G5 Xserves are due shortly. Just stumbled across a link to this
product overview in the Macintoshian Achaia forums @ Ars Technica.

page 17 of the "Official 2nd Perpetual 970 and G5
Architecture Thread" by Dave_K.



Thought I'd add that there is a "buy now" link on
IBM's product overview site, that would mean
well you know, this isn't vaporware.

Good to see. Also interesting to note that if IBM is using dual 1.6GHz CPUs in a blade format, it creates some interesting possibilities for how far Apple will push the speed of the G5s when the XServe is launched.
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