or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › G5 in Jan - new info
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

G5 in Jan - new info

post #1 of 142
Thread Starter 
okay, a <disclaimer>:

I can only provide a few details for risk of revealing where I work. I will not provide you with anything false, but I will have to be a bit vague. I work for a company that makes products for Macs. I am breaking a non-disclosure agreement by telling you anything at all, so please understand I can't answer any questions.

</disclaimer>

---

Some time ago we received test boxes for a 'next generation' processor from Apple. After checking with colleagues in other companies, we were not the only ones. We were told they were 64 bit processors (no name) and that we should be testing our products for any performance loss or peculiarities over current processors.

The boxes were sealed shut and had security features that would basically indicate if anyone tried to take a peak.

Apple System Profiler was not installed. I did not bother installing it.

What I can tell you is this:

We compiled a program we already sell with no modifications, using an upated compiler that shipped with the system. When we ran it through our own performance tests, it knocked all our heads completely off. The results were about 6 to 8 times the overall performance of our last tests of this sort on a a dual 800.

The really interesting thing is that we encountered no major errors at all. Which tells me, given the kind of products we make, that this chip was not exactly an early beta. Our first look at the g4 (before my time) apparently was a nightmare - much of our code had to be optimized and even then gains were minimal over the g3. There were no mods needed this time. It ran almost perfectly and gave us results we've never even come close to on a mac. We suspect we could do even better with a final version of the chip.

I've checked with others and their stories are similar.

My point: I think there is some very good reason to expect a little more than just faster g4s this macworld. Of course they could wait until the summer, but we (and others) are ready to jump on this big time.

:eek:
post #2 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by fahre451:
<strong>okay, a &lt;disclaimer&gt;:

I can only provide a few details for risk of revealing where I work. I will not provide you with anything false, but I will have to be a bit vague. I work for a company that makes products for Macs. I am breaking a non-disclosure agreement by telling you anything at all, so please understand I can't answer any questions.

&lt;/disclaimer&gt;

---


:eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

And I should believe you because... ah! Because of the disclaimer! Gotcha.
Die Grüne Hölle - Gute Fahrt
Reply
Die Grüne Hölle - Gute Fahrt
Reply
post #3 of 142
Are you trying to tell me I'm going to owe Mastergating a case of beer? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

I have no reason to believe or doubt you, but you should be more careful if you're being honest. Your post gives away the fact that your company's "product" is a software product (vs. say a peripheral device of some kind), otherwise how could you hope to measure the processor as being 6 to 8x faster than the fastest existing Mac? You presumably would need to do something along the lines of timing the (application of a filter) to an image, or the time required to encode a music file, or open a certain size document. Otherwise how would you be able to make meaningful comparisons?
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #4 of 142
Finally! A vague rehashing of previously unsubstantiated rumors. I think this proves once and for all that we may or may not see a G5 in January.

Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Reply
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Reply
post #5 of 142
no surprises here...he may be talkin' about the quad machine...without actually knowin' what kind of beast he has on his table

oh well, if he had good ears he could at least hear that there's a HELL OF A NOISE comin' from that thingy <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

let's face it: do you guys really think maya was coded for this peanut dual-800? c'mon...

[EDIT:] typo and..but who cares anyway?

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Strangelove ]

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Strangelove ]</p>
post #6 of 142
Ah, now this is why I read AppleInsider. The more optimistic and unsubstantiated the rumor, the better I like it!

Seriously, I don't see why with every new rumor there's such a rush to break out the 's and the bad arguments ("you're just rehashing old rumors" vs. "you're just making that up"). Isn't this supposed to be part of the fun? Isn't this why we read this forum? Lighten up and go with it.
post #7 of 142
I believe him because he does not pretend to know specifics on specs, price, or release, nor does he want us to ask questions. Sounds like more than somebody just looking for attention. I am personally excited just to hear that something this fast is in the pipeline - be it in Jan. or not. One would assume the processor was a G5 - anyone know what it would take to see a 6x-8x improvement over the G4? Like what possible combination of speed, bus, and RAM improvements could warrant this?

-S
post #8 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by Michael Grey:
<strong>Finally! A vague rehashing of previously unsubstantiated rumors. I think this proves once and for all that we may or may not see a G5 in January.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


*LOL*
Aldo is watching....
Reply
Aldo is watching....
Reply
post #9 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by Michael Grey:
<strong>Finally! A vague rehashing of previously unsubstantiated rumors. I think this proves once and for all that we may or may not see a G5 in January.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Michael,

Please try not to take this the wrong way... You have come to a web site called "Apple Insider" a web site based on rumors (often wrong) then you navigated down to the open forum area and chose to read form the "FUTURE HARDWARE" area. In this area you will find all kinds of fun and interesting subjects posted by people "in the know" as well as those who just feel like playing games... You can't and won't be able to tell them apart till after the fact...

So when you wrote "A vague rehashing of previously unsubstantiated rumors. I think this proves once and for all that we may or may not see a G5 in January." I'm a little unclear as to what EXACTLY you were going to read here?

If you expect Steve Jobs to come-on-down and post the truth the truth and nothing but the truth then I'm sorry but you've been mistaken...

If you (or anyone else for that matter) don't like these types of posts then maybe this forum isn't the place for you... MacNN does have a "CURRENT HARDWARE" area where you will find people more in the know (sometimes) about the hardware they tend to chat about...

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #10 of 142
hoping for G-5, mostly so it is a lock that the iMacs get a G4, but, as mentioned before, a sealed box with a Quad G-4 running at 1.2 or 1.4 mhz would probably 6-8 times the output of a dual 800 mhz G4 and, "here's the kicker", would be more likely to have no problems nor need any modifications than a new chip like the G-5....g

so this poster could be real and still we would know if G-5 is coming or not...
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
Reply
it's all fun till somebody loses an eye
Reply
post #11 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by SpiffyGuyC:
<strong>I believe him because he does not pretend to know specifics on specs, price, or release, nor does he want us to ask questions. Sounds like more than somebody just looking for attention. I am personally excited just to hear that something this fast is in the pipeline - be it in Jan. or not. One would assume the processor was a G5 - anyone know what it would take to see a 6x-8x improvement over the G4? Like what possible combination of speed, bus, and RAM improvements could warrant this?

-S</strong><hr></blockquote>

One would assume that to see 6x-8x it would largely be due to an improved vector processing unit (altivec 2?). Assuming this guy's for real it sounds good. Of course if this is the case he also narrowed his product down to the handful of products that actually have good support Altivec. Okay I'll stop trying to help Apple legal now

So in short, as Moogs pointed out, if your for real, be more careful & use public internet access (internet cafe, perferably not accross the street from your employer ).
post #12 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by SpiffyGuyC:
<strong>I believe him because he does not pretend to know specifics on specs, price, or release, nor does he want us to ask questions.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You believe this, which is the most vague post of them all!? (well besides the codename posts of course).

No matter what is released this guy is basically right. We will never know if he's yanking our chain or not. At least with that mastergater guy we'll know proof positive come Jan 7th.

Someone needs to start a thread listing all the "insiders" and what they are claiming. Then we'll all know who the liars are
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
post #13 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

You believe this, which is the most vague post of them all!? (well besides the codename posts of course).

No matter what is released this guy is basically right. We will never know if he's yanking our chain or not. At least with that mastergater guy we'll know proof positive come Jan 7th.

Someone needs to start a thread listing all the "insiders" and what they are claiming. Then we'll all know who the liars are </strong><hr></blockquote>

It's more likely that someone would have vague info than none at all. And he's not giving any other details or taking questions or asking us to expect anything,or believe in him, nor is he seeking fame or whatnot...so I just don't see any reason for him to post this other than for our general knowledge and benefit.

-S
post #14 of 142
Hey. What are the chances of the admins keeping stats on a posters accuracy? Then we could all get a little rank icon like in Myth or Pogo Chess! Something like clueless to somewhat accurate to educated outsider and the highest rank we all dream of attaining, the rank that garners us the respect of our peers and will have teenage girls and boys screaming our names ... APPLEINSIDER!!
post #15 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by hir:
<strong>Hey. What are the chances of the admins keeping stats on a posters accuracy? Then we could all get a little rank icon like in Myth or Pogo Chess! Something like clueless to somewhat accurate to educated outsider and the highest rank we all dream of attaining, the rank that garners us the respect of our peers and will have teenage girls and boys screaming our names ... APPLEINSIDER!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd be scared to get the "Appleinsider" ranking...Steve would put a hit out on those guys.

-S
post #16 of 142
G4 has been out for how long now? 2 years nearly? That is roughly in line with Moore's Law. Based on apple's product sheet of quadrants, it would make sense that if iMac G4's came out, then the rest of product line could be bumbed up to G5 with exception of PowerBook G4's for another 2-4Q.

If a G4 iMac does come out, that might cannibalize the low end PowerMac G4s.

Seems like they are due for G5.

I know that NEXTSTEP (before it became Mac OSX) was ported to Sun Solaris SPARC, a 64 bit architecture, so it would make sense that a 64bit G5 would have little problems in porting OSX over to it. And they would reap a lot of benefits in that..

We'll see in several days.....
post #17 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by SpiffyGuyC:
<strong>

It's more likely that someone would have vague info than none at all. And he's not giving any other details or taking questions or asking us to expect anything,or believe in him, nor is he seeking fame or whatnot...so I just don't see any reason for him to post this other than for our general knowledge and benefit.

-S</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unless he dishes out tiny tidbits at a time. Then he comes back with more and more info and earns a reputation. Then he can lay down the big news "G5 based tablet with builtin anti-gravity device" and then everyone believes him because his old posts (the vague ones) were right. hehe.

I know I'm talking out of my ass now, its a slow day at work. Sorry

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
Be quiet, Brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-tip
Reply
post #18 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>
I know I'm talking out of my ass now, its a slow day at work. Sorry

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

For you and me both, friend.



And everyone knows that Apple's tablet computer will be based on the G-8, which requires antigravity to operate. I know because Mastergating told me

-S
post #19 of 142
Guys...

6-8x performance increase when compared to a MP800 with a simple recompile is not possible with any chip that is even remotely close to being ready for mass production... Has this ever happened? even the 604e to G3 did not provide such an increase.

The only case in which this could in fact be true is if the App was heavily reliant on AltiVec... or completely starved of memory bandwidth on current machines...

6-8x is quite a speed jump.
Soyons réalistes, Demandons l'impossible.
Reply
Soyons réalistes, Demandons l'impossible.
Reply
post #20 of 142
Would the G5 motherboard's memory and bus differences account for this at all?

S
post #21 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by SYN:
<strong>Guys...

6-8x performance increase when compared to a MP800 with a simple recompile is not possible with any chip that is even remotely close to being ready for mass production... Has this ever happened? even the 604e to G3 did not provide such an increase.

The only case in which this could in fact be true is if the App was heavily reliant on AltiVec... or completely starved of memory bandwidth on current machines...

6-8x is quite a speed jump.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do I hear an echo?
post #22 of 142
Personally, what you really have to look at is the fact that he was vague. Could he be pulling our chains, or could he be in the know. Personally, I see him pulling our chains, because it just doesn't "feel" right.

As most people know how have read my posts, I go by my gut. And only my gut. So, I don't have any insider info. What I can tell you is that if you look at everything that there is, it makes sense of a G5 rollout. The extra time, the moved up date, G4 has been out for 2 years, a (almost) definate iMac, etc etc.

As much as I want to believe what he says, he doesn't seem creditible (because of one thing). I just think that his speed bump is a little outragious. Other than that, I think his words have merit.

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

Reply

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

Reply
post #23 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by SpiffyGuyC:
<strong>For you and me both, friend.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Same here as well.
post #24 of 142
I don't know. I think he is telling the truth, but as I have stated elsewhere, we will know in a short amount of time now who is right and who is full of it. Just enjoy the rumors now. Besides, with the date getting ever closer, who is to say that real informatin will not start leaking faster?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #25 of 142
'zactly.
post #26 of 142
fahre451 = Mastergating, The Next Generation?
post #27 of 142
Heh heh heh.

I think not. Unless our friend Mastergateing is capable of using different writing styles, which I seriously doubt, seeing how he couldn't even edit a post.
post #28 of 142
The only thing of real value he gave us is 6-8 speed bump, the rest is all "we tested an opaque box" blah blah. I think he's exaggerating, but then so is Jobs with his one-sided PS tests, nothing new really. What it probably means is a machine twice the overall speed of current equavalent cpu. That's not that unexpected either. The real question now is will PMs be faster G4 and iMac remains G3, or will both go up a generation. No-one has been able to provide a definite answer to that one.
post #29 of 142
there is nothing exagerated about Jobs' PS tests. All he does to win is use all altivec and MP aware filters on the mac. using only those filters will almost always put the mac on top
post #30 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by geezer1:
<strong>The only thing of real value he gave us is 6-8 speed bump, the rest is all "we tested an opaque box" blah blah. I think he's exaggerating, but then so is Jobs with his one-sided PS tests, nothing new really. What it probably means is a machine twice the overall speed of current equavalent cpu. </strong><hr></blockquote>

There are a number of circumstances in which that sort of speed-up would be possible (although not typical of device performance). Firstly is the case of a program which fits into the 512KB cache of the propsed G5, but not the 256KB of the G4, for certain styles of programme this can give tenfold speed-up on a same speed processor. Another possibility is a seriously bandwidth limited programme if the new device has dual-channel DDR333 memory it could get up to 5 times the memory bandwidth of current G4 machines. Another possibility is that the new compiler has good auto-vectorisation.
None of this means the poster is correct, just that it cannot be ruled as incorrect on the basis of that figure, note, also, that the machines that may be sent out to testers are almost certainly not the same as will be released to the public, they will run at different speeds, may have different memory systems etc..

Michael
Sintoo, agora non podo falar.
Reply
Sintoo, agora non podo falar.
Reply
post #31 of 142
For what its worth, As The Apple Turns is stating that there will absolutely and positively be no G5 at MWSF in January. Tune your expectations a few notches lower.
Stuck in an infinite loop waiting for an Apple PDA...

apple.otaku
Reply
Stuck in an infinite loop waiting for an Apple PDA...

apple.otaku
Reply
post #32 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by apple.otaku:
<strong>For what its worth, As The Apple Turns is stating that there will absolutely and positively be no G5 at MWSF in January. Tune your expectations a few notches lower.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, but they said that because according to a stoopid typo - the G5 was available second-hand as of today: December. Which of couse, it isn't.

AFA MasterGating is concerned, he was a social hack, he pulled the same thing a few months back when he said Steve Jobs was going to give us something to name our children after ... mastergator or not, the truth is, we still don't know if the G5 is going to make it or not ... all we know for sure is that - at very least - we'll get Apollo processors.
In life, as in chess, the moves that hurt the most, are the ones you didn't see ...
Reply
In life, as in chess, the moves that hurt the most, are the ones you didn't see ...
Reply
post #33 of 142
6-8x performance increase hmm.

Current G4 bus, 133mhz. G5 bus 266-400mhz (2x-3x). There is an easy 3x performance increase, the mac is very bus starved.

Current G4 ram, 133mhz. G5 ram 266-400mhz DDR (2-3x). Another big boost.

Peripheral card manufacturer? Perhaps the PCI bus got a major boost (PCI-X?). Perhaps the AGP slot is now at 8x AGP. Perhaps its using the rumored aqua accelerator that raycer were going to make, thus removing a substancial load from the G5 processor (99%? )

Altivec 2. This is a 2-4x boost in altivec speed. I have this on good knowledge, and can't say anything else.

Also, how much of boost does 64bit give? I don't know, maybe none in this task (which leads to the question: and whats that...).

Overall I don't see it being hard to achieve a 6-8x speed boost with the much faster components listed above. As amazing as a 6-8x boost sounds like mmmm
post #34 of 142
Aww come on fahre, crack the case.

JK!!! (I don't want anyone to loose a job)

Hope it's running OS X.
"Its a good thing theres no law against a company having a monopoly of good ideas. Otherwise Apple would be in deep yogurt..."
-Apple Press Release
Reply
"Its a good thing theres no law against a company having a monopoly of good ideas. Otherwise Apple would be in deep yogurt..."
-Apple Press Release
Reply
post #35 of 142
As much as I'd like to think otherwise... The G5 will not make it's debut at MWSF... Well let me rephrase that... The G5 will not make it's debut at MWSF 2002...

I'd love to believe otherwise but most rational signs point to a 1.x Ghz G4 line-up and the latest rev of the iMac plus status updates to X and additional talk about "Apples Digital Revolution" (iPod etc).

Would I L-O-V-E to see a tablet? Sure!
Would I L-O-V-E to see a 'video iPod'? Sure!
Would I L-O-V-E to see some wireless T1 speed access for all Apple users worldwide? Sure!
Would I L-O-V-E to see G5's? Sure!
Would I L-O-V-E to see AppleTIVO Set Top HDTV Boxes? Sure!
Would I L-O-V-E to see Mac OS X 10.2? Sure!

Will we? I really don't think so...

So long as you don't believe the hype you'll be a much happier person.

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #36 of 142
wow fahre, you said so much yet you've said so little.


GOod job!
post #37 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by fahre451:
<strong>Apple System Profiler was not installed. I did not bother installing it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This one line tells me this whole post is BS...

First comes human nature... Don't open that box Johnny... What do you think the first thing little Johnny does..

Next comes the geek factor... What self respecting computer geek wouldn't do his or her level headed best to find out what some Apple branded hermetically sealed box had ticking inside it.

Finally comes the SUPER geek factor... A gaggle of code hackers recompile a company app and get a 6x to 8x performance pop and NOBODY was tempted to use all of the software tools they could get their hands on to see what may or may not be inside?

Sorry, but nobody could ever convince me this report was for real...
Kinda like giving a race car pit crew a new car to test and it drives 6x to 8x as fast as any other car the've ever tested or seen before.. If you don't think these guys would use every diagnostic tool in their pit to figure out what was going on under the hood you're nuts...

Pit crews and Programmers LIVE for speed!

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #38 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:
<strong>
Sorry, but nobody could ever convince me this report was for real...

Pit crews and Programmers LIVE for speed!

Dave</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not inclined to believe the poster either, but your reasoning is sort of silly. He said he wouldn't state anything false - but would be vague.

What makes me skeptical is not the performance boost - which is kind of hard to really judge since we don't even know what kind of app this is. I'm skeptical about the tone. It doesn't sound like someone who has an incredibly good grasp on programming - not that I do, but the whole post seemed a little simplistic. Part of the guise? Dunno.

And why would Apple send out a protoype box without telling people what is inside - what's the point? If, for instance, they were manfucaturing both hardware AND software, wouldn't it be sort of necessary to get inside the box to plug something in if needed? Or do they have special boxes for different developers?

Ok. Anyway, time will tell.
HEE HEE!! Dual G5 2Ghz. 2 Gig RAM. Yeah baby.
Reply
HEE HEE!! Dual G5 2Ghz. 2 Gig RAM. Yeah baby.
Reply
post #39 of 142
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>hoping for G-5, mostly so it is a lock that the iMacs get a G4, but, as mentioned before, a sealed box with a Quad G-4 running at 1.2 or 1.4 mhz would probably 6-8 times the output of a dual 800 mhz G4 and, "here's the kicker", would be more likely to have no problems nor need any modifications than a new chip like the G-5....g

so this poster could be real and still we would know if G-5 is coming or not...</strong><hr></blockquote>

4 G4s at 1.4 MHz will result in 6-8x the output of a dual 800 MHz G4...what are you smoking? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #40 of 142
Got to <a href="http://www.pugglewump.org/story/2001/11/5/22013/3890.com" target="_blank">www.pugglewump.org/story/2001/11/5/22013/3890.com</a>
and go to yahoo then, alias wavefront and download the free screen saver it is very cool.What do you think about the VirtualPC and of course the info. on the developer units?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › G5 in Jan - new info