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The official Dean's thread - Page 4

post #121 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by majorspunk
Why? What's wrong with him? Policy wise, he seems to be the closest to Clinton.

Some democrats want a hothead from Vermont who will have popular support in two or three northeast states but will fail at beating Bush in the general election.

It is quite troubling. I guess these tranced Dean freaks really want 4 more years of Bush.

One has to be intoxicated to believe Dean can win the south.

Clark on the other hand could beat Bush so bad it is not even funny.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #122 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by majorspunk
Why? What's wrong with him? Policy wise, he seems to be the closest to Clinton.

I knew Bill Clinton, sir, and Joe Lieberman is no Bill Clinton.

Three reasons:

1) Most liberals, so far as I can tell, believe Joe a Republican (didn't he used to be?)

2) He's not an inspiring public speaker.

3) America has a long and rich tradition of not electing non-Protestant presidents. Sad, but true.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #123 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
One has to be intoxicated to believe Dean can win the south.

And you'd have to certifiable to believe that a Jewish man from Connecticut could win it.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #124 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by majorspunk
Why? What's wrong with him? Policy wise, he seems to be the closest to Clinton.

Some democrats want a hothead from Vermont who will have popular support in two or three northeast states but will fail at beating Bush in the general election.

It is quite troubling. I guess these tranced Dean freaks really want 4 more years of Bush.

One has to be intoxicated to believe Dean can win the south.

Clark on the other hand could beat Bush so bad it is not even funny.



Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #125 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by majorspunk
Why? What's wrong with him? Policy wise, he seems to be the closest to Clinton.

Lieberman took well to his constituency in Connecticut, chich is another way of saying the big insurance company lobbyists, and spearheaded the effort to stop Clinton from passing a law that would have allowed the SEC to watch corporate boards and also that did not allow teh sort of conflict of interests that resulted in ALL of the major scandals that hit the fan in the last several years

in other words he caved in to corporate pressure to the point where he became the spokesman for a push against an EXCELLENT bill . . . . a Liberal bill . . . . his push defeated the bill and stopped it dead in the water . . .

That in itself is enough for me not to vote for him . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #126 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Betrayed?!

Dean has been conferring with Gore since last September... they've developed a rapport...

I think it's silly to act like this is some big betrayal... that Gore has been out stumping for Leiberman and all of a sudden he switches candidates? that's not what happened... I bet Leiberman was extremely distant from Gore... and didn't even ask for his endorsement. It goes both ways.

no, betrayal in that senator lieberman kept his aspirations in check, while waiting for gore to decide if he was going to run again. he was showing gore respect.
add to that that senator lieberman hears about the endorsement from someone other than gore.
and as i said before party elders historically keep their preferences to themselves, and let the game play out. gore is bush league doing this.
and he didn't carry his own state in the 2000 election. for a smart guy he sure is a bone-head.
post #127 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I knew Bill Clinton, sir, and Joe Lieberman is no Bill Clinton.


at this point in the 92 primary bill clinton wasn't bill clinton either.
what if ted kennedy or someone else would have come out for a different candidate at this stage of the game?
i mean there are nine candidates and the all should be given the opportunity to reach the starting gate.

have i mentioned gore didn't even win his own state in the 2000 election? what a pin-head.
post #128 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Disregarding, of course, the fact that this represents the TOTAL hipocrisy of the Conservative mindset as it operates in the US:

Man you are such a bullshit artist. There are aspects of both the left and right that endorse free or fair trade respectively. The problem is of course that when the left endorses fair trade, they aren't called racist. Likewise when the left endorses free trade they aren't called corporate raiders, globalists, and robber barrons.

There are plenty of folks on the right who happen to endorse only fair trade. I happen to be one of them.

Quote:
We can absolutely FORCE developing countries to adopt "Fair Trade" and make it a stipulation on their Emergency Loans, and thereby undercut their whole economies with our government subsidized exports (just the tip of the iceberg here too)

Well obviously that wouldn't be my definition of fair trade would it. Could you start with less hyperbole or do you just enjoy ranting?

The reality is that free traders consider the U.S. to be generating excessive jobs. The jobs that become too expensive to keep here are considered shipped off overseas via free trade. That is why people will call fair traders racist when they suggest keeping all the manufactering/union type jobs here. It doesn't put an American out of work. That has already happened. It puts someone in Mexico, or China out of work.

However when you basically allow those jobs to become high paying but unskilled union type work, then nobody wants them shipped overseas. Who wouldn't want to make $100k a year as a longshoreman for example.

It is easy even for someone not as politically blind as yourself that when you adopt American safety standards, pensions, healthcare and wages, there isn't an advantage that you gain from shipping the job overseas. When Dean says he is bringing up the standards on the foreign soil side, it is just another way of saying tariff.

Quote:
However, when actual Free Trade threatens our own industry we hippocritically deploy tariffs

Why do I even need to point out the deep hippocrisy here!!!!!!!

What is the real interest?: PROFIT

And the way to stop this flight to the bottom is...what? Consider that you contend we have to not only stop it for ourselves but for the entire world. How is that possible? If we stop it at home by using protective measures then we are racist, hypocritical, etc. We can't even be sure we could stop it from abroad. I've ready articles where Mexico is losing manufactoring jobs to China now. We don't control either of those two countries. The only we can put a stop to this is here at home. Doing so doesn't make us racist. It doesn't mean we want to harm other countries. It just means we are going to stop the race to the bottom here first.

Quote:
Let it be known: I AM FOR TARIFFS. however, they cannot be selective and only for the powerful, and, they must be something that the importing country can decide to impose in order to save their local industry . . .
if we can impose tariffs then Third World Countries should be allowed to impose tariffs!

It is worse than the Mafia really!!! I mean, whole countries' economies are at stake . . . large populations kept in poverty (look at Jamaica!!) so that we can force subsidized imports as well as strong arm them into accepting "TAX FREE ZONES" which amount to SLAVE LABOR CAMPS!!!

I don't think the Bush tariffs have only been used to protect the powerful. Textile industries are mostly in the rural south and around parts of California. Steel production is hardly considered a Bush ally. I think it is that middle ground. The U.S. knows it is going to shed jobs in certain industries abroad for lower cost. However we can't just have the entire industry systematically stamped out and destroyed. We keep some of the jobs here. They are unionized, they often make more than is justified and as a result they need periodic protection when the competitive pressures bite too hard. It is the middle ground. The other path would entail basically shipping that entire industry off shore. That would give the fair traders (like me) too much of an argument for raising more tariffs. "Hey we don't even make steel in the U.S. anymore! It is all imported."

Instead they can say we make some, but not all of what we need. We ship plenty of jobs away and the middle ground is struck that makes us mostly free but occasionally caving when the political pressure gets to be too much or when an entire industry really is in danger of disappearing domestically.

I'm not saying I endorse this. I'm saying it is what has been done to keep fair traders from getting a foothold in the arena of ideas regarding this issue. It is why the majority of the left and the right have managed to do what they have done with it. But don't go making it some bullshit conservative conspiratorial fable when Clinton signed NAFTA and made the environmental and worker protection promises that were broken. (in 1993 for you conspiracy nutjobs out there)

Quote:
We should also understand that it is really in our interest to aid countries to develop their infrastructure where there is none . . . . and dare I say it, in many developing countries, that means that they should have a measure of "SOCIALISM"; where there are certain services that are taken care of in a not-for-profit manner (medicine, low cost housing). . . until that country has the infrastructure, (AND A LOCAL ONE TOO not a string of Burger Kings!!) necessary to allow private economic development and growth!.

"in the long run" it would grease the skids of equitable global economic development without stunting real human lives

I agree but realize that the left and the right have sold up the common man in this instance.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #129 of 269
see, i think clark would destroy bush, dean, no way.

clark is strong in the areas where bush is supposed to be strong. then to top it off, he's strong where bush is weak. he would completely steam roll bush if they went head-to-head.

then again, McCain was a much better canidate, and look how that fared. the reps. elected bush instead.
post #130 of 269
Why is it that Clark could 'destroy' Bush, but can't beat Dean?
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #131 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes


then again, McCain was a much better canidate, and look how that fared. the reps. elected bush instead.

senator mcCain had better ideas,(and he's a better human being) i don't know if he was a better candidate, he spent half of the primaries defending his "hothead" reputation.
i feel certain that if he'd been the G.O.P.'s candidate we wouldn't be in the shit-hole we find ourselves in today.
post #132 of 269
Quote:
Why is it that Clark could 'destroy' Bush, but can't beat Dean?

it's easy. if you had a choice between bush or clark, you'd vote clark.

if you had a choice between bush or dean, you'd vote dean.

if i had a choice between bush or dean, i'd vote bush.

if i had a choice between bush or clark, i'd vote clark.


dean is not electable to folks who sit between voting democrat or republican, but he is very pallatable to democrats.

clark on the other hand is someone i would vote for. that's what i mean.
post #133 of 269
there is no democratic candidate that would make me vote for president bush.
post #134 of 269
You attack my rhetoric then systematically assume teh wrong reading of what I said.
i did not say racist!
I am talking about the free trade stipulations appended to every IMF loan. I am talking about the growth of "Tax Free Zones" promoted by the IMF loan agreements and all of the related items pushed by these loans . . . as well as the subsidization of American produce and exports

These things are contrary to [edit: balanced human centered Trade] and are bad for people and developing countries

as far as benefitting the powerful . . . clearly Bush is only watching his own arse here . . . he doesn't care how much the idea of tariffs runs counter to his espoused conservative Lessez Faire philosophy he merely wants to maintain support in Penn and Ohio and retain lobbyist money . . .

And yes... the extreme left sold out people . . . but thoughtful allocation of resources and regulation is not selling out the common man as much as blind corporatism and the IMF
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #135 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I knew Bill Clinton, sir, and Joe Lieberman is no Bill Clinton.

Three reasons:

1) Most liberals, so far as I can tell, believe Joe a Republican (didn't he used to be?)

2) He's not an inspiring public speaker.

3) America has a long and rich tradition of not electing non-Protestant presidents. Sad, but true.

Lieberman is right where Clinton was. This new Democratic party has changed, apparently back to the way it was before Clinton. Only liberals who forget that Clinton ran on ending welfare as we know it, balancing the budget, decreased domestic discretionary spending, spearheaded NAFTA et al., and ended the era of big government, think that there's something wrong with Lieberman. Hell, Clinton was more "conservative" than Bush, on all those counts I mentioned.

I like his campaign style. I guess I don't go for the big political rhetorical speeches. He has a kind of self-effacing humorous self-conscious (stereotypically Jewish) style. Remember how everyone loved him in 2000? Everyone wanted the tickets to be reversed after Cheney and Lieberman had their VP debate.
post #136 of 269
i agree, senator lieberman's voice is desparately needed during the primary season, unfortunately he's going to have a hard time raising money now.
post #137 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
clark on the other hand is someone i would vote for. that's what i mean.

Still, in the primary, I don't see how Dean trumpts Clark on all counts. That's why I don't understand how people believe this is the end for the democrats.

I still say Clark should run as VP with Dean. That'd screw everyone up.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #138 of 269
i think being vice president might kill an ex-general.
post #139 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Lieberman is right where Clinton was. This new Democratic party has changed, apparently back to the way it was before Clinton. Only liberals who forget that Clinton ran on ending welfare as we know it, balancing the budget, decreased domestic discretionary spending, spearheaded NAFTA et al., and ended the era of big government, think that there's something wrong with Lieberman. Hell, Clinton was more "conservative" than Bush, on all those counts I mentioned.

I like his campaign style. I guess I don't go for the big political rhetorical speeches. He has a kind of self-effacing humorous self-conscious (stereotypically Jewish) style. Remember how everyone loved him in 2000? Everyone wanted the tickets to be reversed after Cheney and Lieberman had their VP debate.

Bingo. Lieberman was the last gasp at where the Democratic party was going under Clinton. All other candidates are to the left of him. The Democratic party seems to have found its vision for what it should be about and it is a repudiation of where Clinton took the party. Of course, Clinton basically adopted moderate Republican positions on many issues for the 96 election cycle.

All in all, I like Lieberman. I don't agree with him on many issues, but he strikes me as the most realistic and down to earth of the Democratic candidates and he is not trying to spin his own fantasy, but speaking honest words of reality to the party. Sadly, primaries are about appealing to your base as much as possible, not about being a sensible candidate. Clinton's legacy dies with Lieberman and Clinton is ceeding his "king making" control over the DNC to... Gore. What a sad day for Clinton- his legacy about taking the democratic party to the middle is about to become history.
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post #140 of 269
Even if I would buy a Clark/Dean ticket I donĀ“t think they want to play on the same state. And Dean is not the person I see accepting "only" to be a vice president.

SOme observations from the recent Democrat debate:

Most said phrase: "I am the only candidate on this stage bla bla bla". SOmething I hated Dean for doing. Now he is the one doing it the least.

Everybody bitching on eachother and everyone talking about the need to not battle eachother. Way to go...

Edwards trying to invent himself as the outside candidate. Sounds like "hey it worked for Dean so why not try". How many times did he say "outside candidate"?

Liebermann as the whineboy. He is pathetic. I remember seeing him for the first time when he was debating with Cheney before the election and liking him immediatly. He surely made that go away rather quickly.

Actually Kuchinich and Mosley-Brown won the most on this debate. Kucinich has great humor and makes jokes on his own expence which none of the other candidate dares to do
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #141 of 269
Dean is not a hot head! Damn.

People come at him with lame questions and he doesn't just play along. The media tries to pidgeon hole him and he refuses to be labeled. He's liberal on somethings he's conservative on others.

You people need to get off the clichs.

And he's not a tax and spender. He balanced his budgets. Unlike Bush.

And Leiberman is as exciting as a game of go-fish.

He'd probably make a great Secretary of State but he's a bit to Pro-Sharon.
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post #142 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
And Leiberman is as exciting as a game of go-fish.

Heh.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #143 of 269
Quote:
Why is it that Clark could 'destroy' Bush, but can't beat Dean?

Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
it's easy. if you had a choice between bush or clark, you'd vote clark.

if you had a choice between bush or dean, you'd vote dean.

if i had a choice between bush or dean, i'd vote bush.

if i had a choice between bush or clark, i'd vote clark.


dean is not electable to folks who sit between voting democrat or republican, but he is very pallatable to democrats.

clark on the other hand is someone i would vote for. that's what i mean.

Bingo!!!!! Did somebody make my point other than me?


I knew there was some sanity in the world

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #144 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
People come at him with lame questions and he doesn't just play along. The media tries to pidgeon hole him and he refuses to be labeled.

sounds like rumsfeld.
post #145 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i think being vice president might kill an ex-general.

I thought about this, but I've ultimately come to the conclusion that it would be a good learning experience for him. Bring him into politics in a way where he is forced to learn compromise at the political level. I think he'd be a much better Presidential candidate after 8 years of learning.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #146 of 269
Sure Clark is electable versus Bush, but I have a feeling that Dean or Edwards would be too. Bush is not unassailable. In 2000 everyone was saying "who the hell is this guy," but now we know what the hell he has been up to. For any opponent with half a brain, Bush's record is the most target rich environment in recorded history!

What would Clark do differently than Bush anyway? He was a republican till a couple months ago and donated to Bush's campaign against Gore. He's from the same special interest loving Clinton wing of the party. No vision. He doesn't even have Clinton's charisma. Did you see him last night?

Besides, he's creepy. Too many frickin generals in politics is the reason the Israel's politics are so screwed up. And if someone posts comparing Clark to Eisenhower I think I'm going to throw up.

Dean on the other hand really has the ability to get people excited. HOPE is what he is offering. That is what no one on the Democratic side gets. Sad old Lieberman or timid Gephardt just don't get it. You don't win elections from behind by aspiring to be the lesser of two evils. You'll never win elections if you can't inspire people. YOU DRIVE PEOPLE OUT OF YOUR PARTY IF YOUR PARTY DOES NOT STAND FOR ANYTHING.

Dean is the guy that actually wants to change things. With his embrace of the internet and by being right on the war he marries vision with the ability to develop the political tools to make it a reality. Gore might have moved in this direction, but Gore is too beholden to the insiders for his power to really set out on a journey towards common sense policies. However, Gore sees that Dean CAN take the party in the right direction because he developed a brand new constituency, the internet generation, that Democrats - and all other politicians for that matter - haven't used well up till now.

Bottom line, Americans are far more disgusted with the Shrub at 1600 Pennslyvania than the media or the insiders know. People want to get rid of this man who has made us look like such fools. If any candidate can actually give the average American hope that there is a viable alternative, he will be elected. The Democratic nominee WILL BEAT BUSH if he can generate any sort of national interest in his candidacy. The only man generating the kind of excitement needed to up the ante like this is Howard Dean.
post #147 of 269
i think gore wants to appear to be a kingmaker.
he's impotent politically, and this get's his face in the papers and maybe he'll get a chance to be a sabbath gasbag with tim russert, or stephenapoulos. he's hitchin' his wagon.

if dean had any balls he'd say "i do not except an endorsement from a pinhead who couldn't even win his own state in the last general election."

have i mentioned that?
post #148 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
have i mentioned that?

Actually, Gore did win Washington D.C.

"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #149 of 269
Gore's endorsement has nothing to do with being a kingmaker.
He's been talking to Dean about the issues for over a year.
It is about steering the party back to it's base and grassroots support.


His candidacy probably failed because he listened to much to
his campaign staff during his run. Yes he could have done a better job of
campaigning... but you cannot lay all the blame on him for losing. He BARELY lost... within a count of illegal military ballots close.
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post #150 of 269
very funny bunge.

blaming florida is like blaming a football referee for blowing a pass interference call in the 4th quarter. you already lost just getting to that point.
so he screws the pooch 3 years ago and now he's trying to inject himself into the equation. clinton's been advising wesley clark, but he wouldn't pull a stunt like this.

and yes i lay all the blame on him for losing. he lost tennessee, for gods sake!
post #151 of 269
Let the poor man mend his fences!

I feel a bit of envy on Gore's part, so I'm not sure he didn't do this to one-up Bubba & Clark. I still think Dean & Clark backed by Bubba & Gore would be a tough ticket to beat.

Clark would have to settle for pulling a Cheney, running everything behind the scenes while Dean takes a lot of glory. But when all were said and done, Clark wouldn't lose Tennessee in 2012 or 2016.
"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #152 of 269
howard kurtz of the washington post analyzes pundits reactions to gore's endorsement

everyone seems to agree with me in that gore's a putz.
post #153 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
i think gore wants to appear to be a kingmaker.
he's impotent politically, and this get's his face in the papers and maybe he'll get a chance to be a sabbath gasbag with tim russert, or stephenapoulos. he's hitchin' his wagon.

if dean had any balls he'd say "i do not except an endorsement from a pinhead who couldn't even win his own state in the last general election."

have i mentioned that?

What's wrong with you?
post #154 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
What's wrong with you?

what because i don't agree with you?
because you're a dean supporter (and i may be too, but right now i'm undecided, it's too soon to tell, i want to see the candidates in action on the campaign trail.) you think gore's endorsement is a great thing. i assure you it's not.
post #155 of 269
Tennessee going Republican is Gore's fault...
uhhh right... the south has been trending that way for 2 decades... it's not Gore's fault.

It's Leiberman's! hehe.
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post #156 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
what because i don't agree with you?
because you're a dean supporter (and i may be too, but right now i'm undecided, it's too soon to tell, i want to see the candidates in action on the campaign trail.) you think gore's endorsement is a great thing. i assure you it's not.

Well, first, we must agree that Gore's endorsement changes the dynamics of the race. I haven't read anything that says it has no effect, which would be the result of an impotent politician's endorsement. Josh Marshall argues that it obviously helps Dean out, but it also sets up a Dean vs. Clark dynamic. In what ways do you think it's bad for Dean?
post #157 of 269
gee, sorry that i don't want al gore deciding what the dynamic of the party is. (as al gore's dynamic seems to be losing) i thought that should be left to voters, albeit maybe just the new hampshire and iowa voters, but they're real people.
obviously gore's endorsement does have an impact, but only within the party fundraising aspect. most people don't care.

and as for al gore not being responsible for losing tennessee, as tenessee is skewing republican, they have 5 democratic house seats (out of 9) and just elected a democratic governor.
post #158 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
In what ways do you think it's bad for Dean?

i don't think it's bad for dean, i think it's bad for the party.

edit = why are you afraid to have dr. dean go through the primary process?
it will be good for him if he wants to defeat president bush.
post #159 of 269
I think Gore wants to be Reagan to Dean's Goldwater.
post #160 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I think Gore wants to be Reagan to Dean's Goldwater.

gore in 2036?
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