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The official Dean's thread - Page 6

post #201 of 269
Yeah they have the house... and look what they have to do to get their "popular" bills passed.


"Never before has the House of Representatives operated in such secrecy:
At 2:54 a.m. on a Friday in March, the House cut veterans benefits by three votes.
At 2:39 a.m. on a Friday in April, the House slashed education and health care by five votes.
At 1:56 a.m. on a Friday in May, the House passed the Leave No Millionaire Behind tax-cut bill by a handful of votes.
At 2:33 a.m. on a Friday in June, the House passed the Medicare privatization and prescription drug bill by one vote.
At 12:57 a.m. on a Friday in July, the House eviscerated Head Start by one vote.
And then, after returning from summer recess, at 12:12 a.m. on a Friday in October, the House voted $87 billion for Iraq.
Always in the middle of the night. Always after the press had passed their deadlines. Always after the American people had turned off the news and gone to bed."

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9587

Like thiefs in the night.
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post #202 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Yeah they have the house... and look what they have to do to get their "popular" bills passed.


"Never before has the House of Representatives operated in such secrecy:
At 2:54 a.m. on a Friday in March, the House cut veterans benefits by three votes.
At 2:39 a.m. on a Friday in April, the House slashed education and health care by five votes.
At 1:56 a.m. on a Friday in May, the House passed the Leave No Millionaire Behind tax-cut bill by a handful of votes.
At 2:33 a.m. on a Friday in June, the House passed the Medicare privatization and prescription drug bill by one vote.
At 12:57 a.m. on a Friday in July, the House eviscerated Head Start by one vote.
And then, after returning from summer recess, at 12:12 a.m. on a Friday in October, the House voted $87 billion for Iraq.
Always in the middle of the night. Always after the press had passed their deadlines. Always after the American people had turned off the news and gone to bed."

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9587

Like thiefs in the night.

Bloody brilliant Chewie! An interesting pattern I see...
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post #203 of 269
Molly Ivins is onboard.

Great piece, as usual.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #204 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Yeah they have the house... and look what they have to do to get their "popular" bills passed.


"Never before has the House of Representatives operated in such secrecy:
At 2:54 a.m. on a Friday in March, the House cut veterans benefits by three votes.
At 2:39 a.m. on a Friday in April, the House slashed education and health care by five votes.
At 1:56 a.m. on a Friday in May, the House passed the Leave No Millionaire Behind tax-cut bill by a handful of votes.
At 2:33 a.m. on a Friday in June, the House passed the Medicare privatization and prescription drug bill by one vote.
At 12:57 a.m. on a Friday in July, the House eviscerated Head Start by one vote.
And then, after returning from summer recess, at 12:12 a.m. on a Friday in October, the House voted $87 billion for Iraq.
Always in the middle of the night. Always after the press had passed their deadlines. Always after the American people had turned off the news and gone to bed."

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/9587

Like thiefs in the night.

Could you pick one of those and give us a little more insight into it? I don't mean to sound cynical but I have heard 3% growth instead of 5% growth called a cut so many times I am a little wary to believe. Especially since this president has been spending like crazy.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #205 of 269
That's quoting by an article written by a congressman.
Ask the congressman to qualify. I think it's obvious what his point was... have the close and controversial votes late at night... away from prying eyes.
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post #206 of 269
He may win the nomination...but he will be slaughtered in the general election.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/13258.htm


btw, I don't have the link but I heard that recent polling suggests Dean losing Vermont to Bush as well. The Dems need to nominate a moderate....but they won't.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #207 of 269
Dean is going to be more popular (in number of appearance) in these forums than Bush.

However i would be happy, if the number of threads dealing with Dean do not multiply
post #208 of 269
I was rooting for Al Sharpton but Dean will do.
"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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post #209 of 269
I'll take a Clark/Dean ticket, thanks...

IMHO, the President needs to be the foreign-policy aware face, while the VP is better suited to domestic policy. Clark has the foreign creds, Dean has pretty solid domestic ideas.

Dean as a foreign policy maker is just frightening, and I think Clark needs a bit of help on the domestic side. Together, they could be a hell of a team.
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post #210 of 269
Wow... coming from the NY Post... how unexpected.
A paper that loses millions every year because no one wants to advertise in it. It can't report on the weather without making fun of Hillary. It's drivel.

If Dean gets the nomination... it will be a very very close race.
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John Kerry for President
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post #211 of 269
Thread Starter 
More Dean threads!
post #212 of 269
Dean is a centrist.

Bush is not.

Nyah nyah.
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post #213 of 269
Wait!

What is Nyah Nyah's position? I need to know!!!!!

'Cause she's kinda cute!
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Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon @ drewprops.com
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post #214 of 269
Thread Starter 
Trumptman just had to start his own thread on it.
post #215 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
More Dean threads!

Yea! More Dean threads! Woo hoo!

To quote Bill Mahr, "Look at me, I'm in a flight suit, look at me! Why even bother with an election?"
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #216 of 269
Thread Starter 
Dean....
post #217 of 269
Well I certainly think Dean would probably lose to Bush, but I don't think this poll means anything in that regard. Dean gets 30% against Bush? It wouldn't surprise me if not much more than 30% of the country has heard anything at all about Dean. If Dean gets everyone who's heard of him to vote for him, I think he'd do pretty well.
post #218 of 269
Ever notice that everything slightly to the left of Republican is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! I mean, CENTER is to the left of the Republicans. So, pretty much anyone NOT a Republican is a threat to our society and therefore will be mocked, ridiculed, scoffed and dismissed. So, for SDW to claim that the Dems need to nominate a moderate is so disengenuous it's laughable because Dean IS a centrist.

If anyone here believes that ANY of the Dems are "acceptable" to SDW and his ilk, then I've got some ocean-side property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

Republicans don't want to govern. They want to rule.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #219 of 269
SDW2001 is right, Dean will get nominated, but Bush will rock his world come November.
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Come waste your time with me

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post #220 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate

... If anyone here believes that ANY of the Dems are "acceptable" to SDW and his ilk, then I've got some ocean-side property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

And just how "acceptable" has Bush been to the left?
Quote:
Republicans don't want to govern. They want to rule.

Quit your whining and start figuring out why Dean's a weak candidate. Btw, I think Dean will probably do a LOT better in the general election than many think but he still will probably lose.
"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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"Countless mothers will light candles and celebrate the tyrant's capture - mothers in all the cities of Iraq, in all the villages of Iran, in all the streets and quarters of Kuwait, everywhere the...
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post #221 of 269
When is SDW ever right about anything? hehe.

Dean is a strong candidate. Dean would stomp Bush in a debate.

It'll be fun to see Bush try to defend his policies when Dean goes after him face to face.
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John Kerry for President
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A Fair and Balanced Liberal

John Kerry for President
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post #222 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
He may win the nomination...but he will be slaughtered in the general election.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/13258.htm


btw, I don't have the link but I heard that recent polling suggests Dean losing Vermont to Bush as well. The Dems need to nominate a moderate....but they won't.

I really hate agreeing with him, but he's right. Hardcore liberalisim is dead.
And all that could have been.
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And all that could have been.
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post #223 of 269
You know the saying. At the primaries paint yourself as a radical and then run for the midlle at the presidental election.

Lucky enough for dean he is closer to the middle than people think so he just have to speak up about his politic after he has won the primary (not that I hope he does. I still hope for Clark)
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #224 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
And just how "acceptable" has Bush been to the left?

Quit your whining and start figuring out why Dean's a weak candidate. Btw, I think Dean will probably do a LOT better in the general election than many think but he still will probably lose.

On your first question, Bush was very acceptable to me at first. I was actually "proud" of him in the aftermath of 9/11. I completely supported the war in Afghanistan. I believed him when he said Saddam was an imminent threat. But then he betrayed my trust as an American and now he must go. This notion that any Republican president will be despised by the left is completely erroneous. Every president has a clean slate to win over the public's trust. This president and his chronies on the hill, unfortunatley, are so anti-Democrat it's utterly disgusting.

On your second question I'm not whining. Just stating the obvious. The Republican marketing machine has you and everyone else convinced that this is a slam-dunk election. The more they repeat it the more the "sleepwalkers" believe it and therefore don't bother to go to the polling sites. At this point, if John F. Kennedy came back from the dead and was running for president Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity would be slamming him daily for being an uber-leftist New England white boy.

I believe in Dean's grassroots movement. I think there is a phenomenon brewing that could surprise everyone come election day. However, I believe the Republican marketing machine will do everything in its power to dilute the word "grassroots" to the point that it no longer has meaning. By the time they're done with destroying the definition of "grassroots" it will no longer have any resonance with the American people.

Mark my words, Rove and the rest will turn the word "grassroots" into another sub-definition of the term "campaign". Hence, any Republican running a campaign is being run by the "grassroots". The Republican marketing machine is so powerful that they will effectively STEAL the term from the Dean campaign.

Watch. It's already started.
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post #225 of 269
Dean is not only sausage, he is toast.

Please help kick Bush out of the White House,

Vote Wesley Clark for President 2004

Fellowship
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #226 of 269
Thread Starter 
Wrong Dean thread, asshole.
post #227 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
When is SDW ever right about anything? hehe.

Dean is a strong candidate. Dean would stomp Bush in a debate.

It'll be fun to see Bush try to defend his policies when Dean goes after him face to face.

You know Chewie I've been thinking about this as well. Personally, I can't wait for the first debate between Dean and Bush. This won't be like Bush versus Gore where all Bush had to do was not fall down. Gore was so trumped as a clandestine debater that anything less was considered a failure.

This will different. Many Republicans are starting to say things like, "Deans not as smart or bright as liberals think he is", etc. They think he's a hot-head who's going to lose his cool. No, Dean is going to hold the president's feet to the fire on a laundry list of massive f*ck-ups. The President is not going to be able to just chuckle, wink at someone off camera, smirk and then give gray answers like "fuzzy math." Dean's going to hold him down and I can't wait!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #228 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
When is SDW ever right about anything? hehe.

Dean is a strong candidate. Dean would stomp Bush in a debate.

It'll be fun to see Bush try to defend his policies when Dean goes after him face to face.

That kind of underestimation of Bush is EXACTLY why gore lost the third debate to him. Bush is far more intelligent thatn he appears to be, and he also far more prepared than any Dem will admit.

As far as Dean threads, maybe we could have another anti-conservative, anti-bush, anti-republican, anti-cheney, rumsfeld, ashcroft or whomever thread? I love how we can have a thousand of those, but I get a wink from a moderator when i post this. typical.

Dean is going to lose big. And he is no centrist at all. That's a crock. He is ultra left, which is why the Dem party is in shambles right now. There's a war in the party between the DNC and the Deanites. Dean is winning. Clark and the Clintons are losing. The Democratic party will not continue to be a major political force if it continues the direction it is going. Mark my words.
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post #229 of 269
*NEWSFLASH*

Conservatism is dead.

It's as valid as saying liberalism is dead.

Besides that.

DEAN IS A CENTRIST.

Kerry, Kucinich and Mosely Braun are all to the left of Dean. And they would still be better Presidents than Bush. Hell... McCain would be a better President than Bush. He's to the left of Bush too.

If anything Dean is the McCain of the Democratic party.

Bush ran as moderate. Governed as conservative.
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post #230 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by chu_bakka
When is SDW ever right about anything? hehe.

Dean is a strong candidate. Dean would stomp Bush in a debate.

It'll be fun to see Bush try to defend his policies when Dean goes after him face to face.

SDW is always wrong. The dow isn't 10,000. Unemployment isn't going down. Economic growth isn't going up.

That SDW, he lives in a fantasy world.

You guys should get religion, because Dean needs prayer.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #231 of 269
Really? I see Dean as the Bush, Clark as the McCain.

Dean/Bush have/had the popular emotional support, the 'feelgood' support. Clark/McCain have/had the quieter, more reasoned support.


And every time, passionate and loud will trump quiet and reasoned.

Ah well.
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post #232 of 269
enough Dean's thread. this one is closed
post #233 of 269
I have merge the two threads about dean (the others are closed).
This is the official Howard Dean thread
Enjoy ! 8)
post #234 of 269
Thread Starter 
Thanks Powerdoc. How bout we make it a sticky!?
post #235 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
You attack my rhetoric then systematically assume teh wrong reading of what I said.
i did not say racist!
I am talking about the free trade stipulations appended to every IMF loan. I am talking about the growth of "Tax Free Zones" promoted by the IMF loan agreements and all of the related items pushed by these loans . . . as well as the subsidization of American produce and exports

These things are contrary to [edit: balanced human centered Trade] and are bad for people and developing countries

as far as benefitting the powerful . . . clearly Bush is only watching his own arse here . . . he doesn't care how much the idea of tariffs runs counter to his espoused conservative Lessez Faire philosophy he merely wants to maintain support in Penn and Ohio and retain lobbyist money . . .

And yes... the extreme left sold out people . . . but thoughtful allocation of resources and regulation is not selling out the common man as much as blind corporatism and the IMF

I see they sold them out.. but less.. and they sold them out, but to someone other than the IMF and corporate interests?? NAFTA was signed by Clinton and the Democratic Congress in 1993. The Republicans didn't even take the house until 1994. How is it that only the "extreme left" sold them out?

Likewise when Bush wants to maintain the support of Ohio and Penn then he is "watching out for his own arse." What is it then when Dean declares he is for free trade and then declares he never would have lifted the tariffs, acting unilaterally, and using U.S. strength to defy the E.U. and the WTO?

It's getting deep in here...the same actions yet one is a saint and the other satan with them.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #236 of 269
Bush was very acceptable to me at first. I was actually "proud" of him in the aftermath of 9/11. I completely supported the war in Afghanistan. I believed him when he said Saddam was an imminent threat. But then he betrayed my trust as an American and now he must go. This notion that any Republican president will be despised by the left is completely erroneous. Every president has a clean slate to win over the public's trust. This president and his chronies on the hill, unfortunatley, are so anti-Democrat it's utterly disgusting.

The Republican marketing machine has America convinced that this is a slam-dunk election. The more they repeat it the more the "sleepwalkers" believe it and therefore don't bother to go to the polling sites. At this point, if John F. Kennedy came back from the dead and was running for president Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity would be slamming him daily for being an uber-leftist New England white boy.

I believe in Dean's grassroots movement. I think there is a phenomenon brewing that could surprise everyone come election day. However, I believe the Republican marketing machine will do everything in its power to dilute the word "grassroots" to the point that it no longer has meaning. By the time they're done with destroying the definition of "grassroots" it will no longer have any resonance with the American people.

Mark my words, Rove and the rest will turn the word "grassroots" into another sub-definition of the term "campaign". Hence, any Republican running a campaign is being run by the "grassroots". The Republican marketing machine is so powerful that they will effectively STEAL the term from the Dean campaign.

Watch. It's already started
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post #237 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Bush was very acceptable to me at first. I was actually "proud" of him in the aftermath of 9/11. I completely supported the war in Afghanistan. I believed him when he said Saddam was an imminent threat. But then he betrayed my trust as an American and now he must go. This notion that any Republican president will be despised by the left is completely erroneous. Every president has a clean slate to win over the public's trust. This president and his chronies on the hill, unfortunatley, are so anti-Democrat it's utterly disgusting.

The Republican marketing machine has America convinced that this is a slam-dunk election. The more they repeat it the more the "sleepwalkers" believe it and therefore don't bother to go to the polling sites. At this point, if John F. Kennedy came back from the dead and was running for president Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity would be slamming him daily for being an uber-leftist New England white boy.

I believe in Dean's grassroots movement. I think there is a phenomenon brewing that could surprise everyone come election day. However, I believe the Republican marketing machine will do everything in its power to dilute the word "grassroots" to the point that it no longer has meaning. By the time they're done with destroying the definition of "grassroots" it will no longer have any resonance with the American people.

Mark my words, Rove and the rest will turn the word "grassroots" into another sub-definition of the term "campaign". Hence, any Republican running a campaign is being run by the "grassroots". The Republican marketing machine is so powerful that they will effectively STEAL the term from the Dean campaign.

Watch. It's already started

Again I find it amazing that the same actions are somehow give such different motive when applied to a different party. Dean has a lot of people flocking to his campaign. He asks those people to recruit other people. I'm sure he has planned goals of money raised, people recruited, people contacted and so forth.

This is "good" campaigning and grassroots. When Bush does it it is bad campaigning and not grassroots. There was a mention in an article here about the Bush campaign that they were going door to door, not relying on 30 second spots, trying harder than ever to sign up voters, get them to the polling place on election day, and instead of informing them via 30 second spots, have someone actually give them face time door to door or at a minimum with a phone call.

Yet somehow these are given sinister motive when it is the Bush campaign doing it.

Your whole first paragraph regarding a president winning over the left and starting with a clean slate is a lie. All I have heard since day one of the Bush presidency from the left is that he "stole" the election. That he is illegitimate, etc. Perhaps in some special fantasyland that is called a clean slate, but in my book that is called lunging for the throat from day one.

The left has moved since the Clinton days. Clinton wasn't portrayed as "evil" for Don't Ask Don't Tell, not acting on water treatment until he signed an executive order the last hours of his administration, signing NAFTA, etc. Bush when carrying on the same policies is suddenly Satan even when adding more to federal education funding, passing a prescription drug benefit, etc. Sure he didn't add as much spending as some wanted, but that doesn't make him the devil, evil or trashing our nation.

Here is Edwards take on it. We Can't Win on Anger

Maybe someone here will actually not question the source since he happens to be a Democrat.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #238 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Again I find it amazing that the same actions are somehow give such different motive when applied to a different party. Dean has a lot of people flocking to his campaign. He asks those people to recruit other people. I'm sure he has planned goals of money raised, people recruited, people contacted and so forth.

This is "good" campaigning and grassroots. When Bush does it it is bad campaigning and not grassroots. There was a mention in an article here about the Bush campaign that they were going door to door, not relying on 30 second spots, trying harder than ever to sign up voters, get them to the polling place on election day, and instead of informing them via 30 second spots, have someone actually give them face time door to door or at a minimum with a phone call.

Yet somehow these are given sinister motive when it is the Bush campaign doing it.

Your whole first paragraph regarding a president winning over the left and starting with a clean slate is a lie. All I have heard since day one of the Bush presidency from the left is that he "stole" the election. That he is illegitimate, etc. Perhaps in some special fantasyland that is called a clean slate, but in my book that is called lunging for the throat from day one.

The left has moved since the Clinton days. Clinton wasn't portrayed as "evil" for Don't Ask Don't Tell, not acting on water treatment until he signed an executive order the last hours of his administration, signing NAFTA, etc. Bush when carrying on the same policies is suddenly Satan even when adding more to federal education funding, passing a prescription drug benefit, etc. Sure he didn't add as much spending as some wanted, but that doesn't make him the devil, evil or trashing our nation.

Here is Edwards take on it. We Can't Win on Anger

Maybe someone here will actually not question the source since he happens to be a Democrat.

Nick

You missed the point.
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post #239 of 269
Edwards isn't angry. Big deal. He's running against Dean and continuing the "Angry Dean" clich.
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post #240 of 269
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
You missed the point.

I don't think you even my post. How is having someone from the campaign personally come to your door your idea of sleepwalking through the campaign?

You are the one naive enough to believe that Dean doesn't control or set goals for his campaign. You think of him as just the guy who caught the wave of discontent and is surfing it. So again when Bush has an organization that works with and down to the personal level, that is grassroots.

The funniest thing of all is how Bush is constantly portrayed as an idiot yet people mock his campaign for having so many goals, reports in about activities, timelines, deadlines, etc. Yep that sounds like a guy who has no clue and no intellect to me.

Yes Dean has already forgone matching funds because he has no idea where his money is coming from, or if it is going to come.

Get a clue.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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