Originally posted by trumptman
If I did drugs, I would want some of yours because obviously they are quite powerful.
The Dean campaign is no different from any other campaign. If you want a true example of a grassroots campaign, try the California Recall, oh but of course that was a "circus" even while it turned out record numbers of voters, signed up millions of new voters, and while started by one man, wasn't even about him after the momentum got startec.
I also remember a lot of people saying that the Dean campaign is running on a similar "anti-incumbant" platform as Schwarzy's and that it could be equally as powerful. Hmm.
No matter what you want to claim, no matter what Dean tries to claim, there wasn't some movement that was already going and just happened to pick him.
Umm. Not true. How else do you explain his meteoric rise to the top? It certainly wasn't through the sheer will of his personality.
Of course on the Dean side this is "grassroots" and on the Republican side, it is the Nazism.
Whatever. Somehow I suspect you wouldn't allow anyone else on this forum to get away with this. I didn't even remotely relate Bush's campaign to Nazism. I simply said I was dumbfounded by the blatant re-framing of the term "grassroots" by Rove, Inc.
You used to debate intellectually. What happened?
Dean's site is so self-rightous and filled with "thoughtspeak" that it sounds more Orwellian than anything else I have encountered in a long time. He takes so many common principles and assigns them exclusively to himself that it is a little scary.
Orwellian? That's original. If memory serves we were supposed to be "uniting" and full of "compassion" and not "nation building."
Hmmm.... sounds a little top down to me. I don't see people just spontaniously writing letters. Sounds a little top-down planned to me.
Well you're certainly not looking in the right place. I volunteered to write letters when it was a suggestion by a blogger several months ago. But, you weren't there for that. It was another blogger who suggested that hand-written letters would be better received.
I even drove myself to the letter writing party. I wasn't recruited, let alone forced into quotas. In fact, there wasn't even a signup sheet with a letter quota that I must meet. Even Bush's own "ground troups" are dismayed at the heavy-handed tactics being deployed by Rove, Inc.
And yes, I want my cookie!
Hmmm... top down again. This wasn't some local person who just put some thoughts and feelings into writing and a lot of people discovered they had similar feelings and then, wow Dean does too. It is again, top down.
Actually, there are several instances where bloggers have contributed ideas that the campaign has incorporated. But, I guess you didn't really do all that much research, did you? Because if you did, you really wouldn't be walking away from the site or the blog with such a dismissing, arrogant attitude. This campaign has the most symbiotic relationship with its supporters that I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. You might find that "charming" but ineffective. We'll see in November.
I could go on and on, but the point is, his campaign is no different than any other, no matter how much jinglism or sloganism he tosses around.
If that's true, then why is the RNC and Rove, Inc. suddenly using the term grassroots to describe their efforts? They never used it before. Again, you are arguing that grassroots and campaigning are equal, the same thing, when they are not. So, thanks for proving my point that your goal is to hijack the word, diffuse it, completely deplete its original meaning and in a single breath complete dismiss the power of it.
Also, no one ever said it wasn't a CAMPAIGN! The only thing distinguishing this campaign from all the others is the overwhelming support from average Americans who are enthusiastically rallying around their candidate. The "grassroots" element applies simply because 90% of all the Deaniacs have never participated in politics, let alone volunteered time for a campaign. 90% of Bush's "Rangers" are hard-core activists from the 2000 election.
And signing up new voters is not a grassroots movement, on either side of the fence. It's simply...signing up voters.
Yes no deadlines and quotas. I mean something like 2 million Americans x $100 is.... well sounds like a quota to me. Of and the list of upcoming fund raisers all planned by and for Deans sounds... so ... grassroots... really.
Quotas and Goals are two separate things. Nice spin though.
Then of course there is the TeamDean, where you can be a heavy hitter by using the Dean website, and Dean provided space to raise money for... Dean.. because darn it this isn't top down. What's next... DeanPioneers.
Note that you get your own bat to track how much of a "heavy hitter" you are when funding raising for Dean. Of course the percentages on that bat don't represent deadlines, quotas, an expectation or anything else centrally imposed.
It's not imposed. It was asked for. The bloggers asked for the bat. They wanted something that symbolized how much money they've raised. Dean or Trippi didn't do it. The bloggers asked and they received. Grassroots.
Again, because you have not been paying attention to the Dean movement (and I don't expect you to) you haven't been there to witness the site, the blog, the MeetUp events all being shaped and ran...wait for it...by the Dean grassroots movement. Not by the campaign. The people.
You also forgot to mention that Dean is also helping out fellow Congressional Democrats by asking his supporters to donate money to their campaigns. But, hey, it's ALL about Dean, right?
Gee Bush allows me to submit questions for online chats whereas Dean doesn't even show any upcoming chats, so he must be a Nazi.
There you go again with your fascination with Nazis.
Why do you keep equating a ligitmate dispute about "marketing" with "evil" and Nazis?
Dean and Trippi are constantly on the Blogs and in the Forum. You don't have to "submit" a question and wait for upcoming chats. It's all live, right there, right now. No waiting for calibrated answers.