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The case for avatars...

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
This forum appears to be a "no nonsense" kind of place.

(Fortunately, however, there is some light-hearted silliness to be found

in a few threads.)

But, if you guys are interested in speed and efficiency, let me just say

that it would be a whole lot easier (and faster) to scroll

through a thread to find a particular post (to which to reply), if avatars were in

the margin.

You may think avatars are silly, juvenile and beneath you.

But since I have come here, I have just discovered how handy

they really are (from another board in which I post).



I know 'avatars' won't ever happen here. Certainly not at a

board that's all in these lovely, light-hearted grey tones.

I do LIKE grey. But really..... isn't this a bit

much??? NO! NO!... I'm NOT complaining. This is just a

suggestion.


Love,

Carol
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #2 of 57
That's Strike 1, Carol.
post #3 of 57
meh...i like the loading time now
post #4 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by murbot
That's Strike 1, Carol.

Omigod! I'm on the pathway to banning already, and I just

got here?

Please say it ain't so!

Er...you were kidding, right? About strike 'one'?



(...it's really hard to tell...)



Carol
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #5 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Carol A
You may think avatars are silly, juvenile and beneath you.

But since I have come here, I have just discovered how handy

they really are (from another board in which I post).

How are avatars handy?
They're annoying, just like huge sigs, just like too many smilies (which is why I have always had Nebagakid on ignore - I'm sure there are a ton of him in his post, but thankfully I never see them).
post #6 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Cake
How are avatars handy?
They're annoying, just like huge sigs, just like too many smilies (which is why I have always had Nebagakid on ignore - I'm sure there are a ton of him in his post, but thankfully I never see them).

Well, I didn't even realize how handy avatars were until I starting scrolling through the mad cow thread, looking for several posts to which I wanted to reply.

It was just a stream of grey, with no way to tell (at a quick scrolling speed) when I found the poster I was looking for.

I actually had to memorize the 'width' of his post in order to find it fast.

And since I was intending to reply to four different posters in that thread, I had to do a lot of scrolling, with no way to quickly differentiate the posters at fast scroll speed.

SO - that's when I suddenly realized that avatars are actually quite handy little suckers after all.

Does any of this make sense?


Carol


PS In your honor, I used no smilies this time. (grin)
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #7 of 57
Hi Carol,

Yeah, the forums may seem a little drab at first, but everyone seems to love it that way. I do too. It really grows on you after a bit. It's not too high contrast; it's easy on the eyes. Believe me, there were some members raising hell when we mentioned that we were considering a design change some time ago. Some people clamored about how AppleInsider was, in their opinion, the best-looking forum on the Internet and, of course, those "threatening" to leave if we changed it.

As for avatars, Negabakid and Cake have the right idea. Avatars absolutely *kill* loading time. Right now, for example, I am reading the forums via a 6-year-old Mac on a 56k modem. Not only would loading several pages in tabs (standard operatng procedure for me) take forever to download, it would also eat up every last byte of RAM and compute cycle this baby has to spare. Avatars are resource HOGS. Not everyone is in my situation, but I do believe that we need to at least accommodate the needs of the people *running* the forums.

Load time. Load time. Load time. It's definitely one of the biggest of obstacles. Loading as many as 40 images coming from 40 different servers (based on the standard size of 40 posts per thread page) just gobbles bandwidth. Then, what about servers that 404 or stall or are just slow? More waiting as the pages appear to just hang endlessly. You might suggest just hosting the images on our own server, no? Well, we are already running on a practically nonexistant, razor-thin budget. We can't afford to start putting out 100x the bandwidth we are now, nor do we have space on the server to accomodate for images for 13,000+ members.

Then there's style. Granted, these images can be helpful in some cases, buit in the vast majority of sites that I have visited which allow these options, members have abused them with size, color, and animation overkill to where the overall appearance of the site itself is just a joke.

As you might can guess, this is an issue I've seen a handful of members bring up before.

Anyway, thank you for your comments. They are duly noted. I hope that you can find yourself getting better accustomed to how our site works. Your comments make perfect sense to me, but in this administration's opinion, the negative consequences of implementing avatars far outweighs the positive ones.

Oh, and as for murbot, he's just a big teddy bear. I think the snow up in the great white north has got him frazzled. Snuggle up to him and I'm sure he'll give you some lovin'. Or he might claw your face into a thousand indecipherable shreds. One or the other. He's kinda hard to figure out.

Regards,
Brad
post #8 of 57
i like avatars

let's get them asap
post #9 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad

Oh, and as for murbot, he's just a big teddy bear. I just think the snow up in the great white north has got him frazzled. Snuggle up to him and I'm sure he'll give you some lovin'. Or he might claw your face into a thousand indecipherable shreds. One or the other. He's kinda hard to figure out.

Regards,
Brad [/B]

Hi Brad -

Thanks for the reply. Isn't it around 2:30 AM where you are?

And I thought I was tired!

Okay, I understand about the loading time. And I had never actually seen the point of avatars until today, when I spent so much time scrolling through that thread looking for particular posts. I guess my eyes were already tired, too. That didn't help.

And about Murbot...if you say so. He didn't really sound like he was kidding to me, however. Maybe he has cabin fever, or something. That could explain why I have possibly already gotten on his last nerve.

If I am already rocking the proverbial boat, then I am in deep trouble. Because I am not one to keep my mouth closed when it might be wiser to do so, alas.

Again, thank you for the explanations. And as I said, I think grey is simply "lovely."


Carol
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #10 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Carol A
And about Murbot...

what do you think?

for more murbot-induced ulcer-inflaming laughter see here

hell just look at his profile...
125/51041 (top .2449%)-Amie Street - awesome independent DRM-free music
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
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125/51041 (top .2449%)-Amie Street - awesome independent DRM-free music
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one...
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post #11 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
what do you think?

for more murbot-induced ulcer-inflaming laughter see here

hell just look at his profile...

Hi Paul -

Well, I've only been here a few hours, and I've already had to pony up a year's supply of beer to keep from being banned!

At this rate, I'll have to take out a second mortgage on my house before too long, to keep up with 'payments.'

Just had a thought! Maybe if I learn the words to O' Canada really fast......whaddaya think, eh???
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
Reply
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #12 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
Hi Carol,

Yeah, the forums may seem a little drab at first, but everyone seems to love it that way. I do too. It really grows on you after a bit. It's not too high contrast; it's easy on the eyes. Believe me, there were some members raising hell when we mentioned that we were considering a design change some time ago. Some people clamored about how AppleInsider was, in their opinion, the best-looking forum on the Internet and, of course, those "threatening" to leave if we changed it.

**** YOU, YOU FASCIST BASTARD

YOU RUINED THE LOOK OF THE FORUMS. SERIOUSLY, THE SHADE IS OFF SOMEHOW!!!
post #13 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad


As for avatars, Negabakid and Cake have the right idea. Avatars absolutely *kill* loading time. Right now, for example, I am reading the forums via a 6-year-old Mac on a 56k modem. Not only would loading several pages in tabs (standard operatng procedure for me) take forever to download, it would also eat up every last byte of RAM and compute cycle this baby has to spare. Avatars are resource HOGS. Not everyone is in my situation, but I do believe that we need to at least accommodate the needs of the people *running* the forums.
Regards,
Brad

Brad - I have a 6 yr. old Mac at school. When, heaven forbid, I try to access a messageboard with avatars, the loading literally never finishes. That site just keeps loading the whole time I'm on it.

The first day I signed up at that board, a mod invited me to chat, and I tried to do so, but couldn't. I should have remembered that no one is allowed in chatrooms at school.

So all this time I have been thinking that my school Mac is being monitored because of my one attempt to chat, and that that was why it keeps loading. The no-chat thing is basically aimed at the students; and all the computers in the school are linked.

The teachers in all 32 of our schools ARE monitored, but probably randomly. So my question is, do you think that avatar-board loads constantly because my Mac is being monitored, and they have put some kind of slow-down feature on my access to that site? Or does it keep loading because of the avatars? The Mac doesn't do that on other boards. But none of the others have avatars.

Sorry to bore you with this question.

And thanks if you have any speculations.


Carol
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
Reply
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Carol A
The teachers in all 32 of our schools ARE monitored, but probably randomly. So my question is, do you think that avatar-board loads constantly because my Mac is being monitored, and they have put some kind of slow-down feature on my access to that site? Or does it keep loading because of the avatars? The Mac doesn't do that on other boards. But none of the others have avatars.

More than likely, I expect the problem is with the avatars themselves. With avatars, if any of the servers stall out, the page will be in a perpetual "loading" state as it waits and waits for the download to finish. You could test this by disabling images in your browser. If the pages then load okay without them, you know the problem was with the avatars.

Though, it is also possible that the school district has done one of several things. It could have a black-list of servers that will refuse to load (thus possibly stalling that forum). A simple tweak in the DNS list can block any server of their wish. It could also have a sort of bandwidth cap. When you try loading the page with all the avatars, your computer will try to open a connection with every one of those servers. A cap could slow your download speed to a crawl, making the page take a very long time to load. NCSU, for example, has an upstream cap on all transmissions leaving campus. This makes it impossible to feed any more than about 3 KB/sec from anywhere except the main campus servers (on which we each have a paltry 50 MB of storage).

I really doubt you are being blocked personally. The threats of "monitoring" by the tech managers usually just means they keep an app running that logs basic activity. If it sees an abnormal amount of activity coming from a node or sees hits to a black-listed site, it notifies a technician via e-mail. I've seen these systems in "action" before (action being quite a laughable word choice). Most of the time, the technician just fires off a templated "warning" letter to the offender and business goes about as normal. It's usually more trouble than it's worth to implement restrictions on individuals.

Hope this helps.
post #15 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
what do you think?

for more murbot-induced ulcer-inflaming laughter see here

hell just look at his profile...

Hey Paul -

I just read Murbot's whole thread about the hard drive. At

first, I read with my mouth open, saying,"What?...WHAT??!!!"

I can't exactly remember at which point I started laughing.

What a priceless thread! Thank you so much for pointing it

out to me.


Carol
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
Reply
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
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post #16 of 57
murbot has a very dry sense of humor that can be misunderstood easily.
post #17 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan
i like avatars

let's get them asap


OOH! Fight of the admins!!!


But seriously, what if you made a database of like, 20 or so APPLE pictures, limit being, oh, say, 80*80, that we could pick from? 80*80 wouldn't take long to load, and you get a sense of "personality" with it
post #18 of 57
I don't know what's worse, avatars, or people posting with stupid ****ing small fonts. What the hell are people allowed to do that for? UGLY.

post #19 of 57
i'm telling y'all if i don't get avatars on here five minutes ago i'm leaving
post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Clayton Magnet
I don't know what's worse, avatars, or people posting with stupid ****ing small fonts. What the hell are people allowed to do that for? UGLY.


I use a different font in my posts. Download the font from the link in my sig and once you install it, you should be able to see it (i'm not posting in it now)
post #21 of 57
Yeah, I'm going to download a font so I can read your posts.

Get over yourself.
post #22 of 57
You know, I'm going to really look like a goober, but I'm not 100% sure what an avatar is or does. Or how they would apply here. Is it like a little graphic symbol for the user? Is that all that stuff I see at other sites, with swords and stuff flinging around, all animated?

If so, then put me down for a big, fat ol' NO AVATARS vote.



I've gotten used to this site's look (if not all its members...ahem), and it's easily one of the nicest, easiest-to-read message boards I've ever seen or visited. Could use a bit more orange, but that's neither here nor there, so...

Anyway...

The gray recedes and allows the stellar content of our thought-provoking posts shine through, clear and strong.



Oh...welcome, Carol A!
post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Cake
How are avatars handy?
They're annoying, just like huge sigs, just like too many smilies (which is why I have always had Nebagakid on ignore - I'm sure there are a ton of him in his post, but thankfully I never see them).

You all do not realize how proud I feel right now, that I have been noticed (and in a way disliked) by someone. In all sincerity, I am happy right now, I mean, for someone to go through the trouble to put me on their IGNORE LIST

The thing about my "smilies" is that they are already loaded into the cache, they are small (maybe intrusive) but they do not cost any more bandwidth, because one must download them once, and if anyone ever makes a reply, they will have already downloaded it. Also, if anyone steals my idea I will cut them.
post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates


The gray recedes and allows the stellar content of our thought-provoking posts shine through, clear and strong.




Sarcasm detector? This baby's off the charts!
post #25 of 57
did i hear someone call AI "no nonsense"???

honey, nonsense is all we DO 'round here!

but, really, i'm not sure if it's a chicken-egg problem, namely that if avatars were allowed, sure, the majority of regular posters would probably observe due decorum, because we have a crowd that would probably use them sensibly and tastefully. but i also get the feeling that if we DID allow avatars, we would attract a lot of jokers who would otherwise litter out threads with troll garbage, but because they can't use they're south park darth maul avatar or their 480x68 web site banner ad for their website, they just move on.

we could use a few more types of smiley-faces, though.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #26 of 57
Fine, but no more smokey smilies... I "own" the smokey smilies around here.

"You guys talking about the West Side? Stay off the West Side."
post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Clayton Magnet
I don't know what's worse, avatars, or people posting with stupid ****ing small fonts. What the hell are people allowed to do that for? UGLY.


Dude, he doesn't even own a Mac. He shouldn't be allowed here anyway.
Come waste your time with me

In a world without doors or walls, there is no need for Gates or Windows
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Come waste your time with me

In a world without doors or walls, there is no need for Gates or Windows
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post #28 of 57
I'm not even gonna say it




EDIT: Ok, I will

I can't believe the immaturity of SOME of the people on thsi forum. Just because I don't OWN a mac, doesn't mean that I can't talk about one. The only reason I'm here is because I want a Apple notebook for college AND I want to try and convert my family from XP to OSX. It's not my choice that I'm stuck with a Dell with Windows XP, yet you all treat me like crap because I do. I'm sick of it. If you read the first line, where I said some people here are INCREDIBLY immature, and you said "Shut up you ****** PC user", thats what I'm talking about. Im sick and tired of that bullcrap that I've dealt with for a few weeks. I've tried to be nice, but I can't help it anymore. First, I've got 2 people who are cocky enough to see that I'm posting in a different/smaller font, and they think I'm saying "If you wanna see it, download it or forever be damned!". I'm not. I'm saying "If you wanna see it, download it, but if you don't, fine, but you don't need to endlessly comment about it. Then, I've got smokey over here thinking that he OWNS the freakin' smoking icon! Well, guess what? I can do it too! Happy? I hope so. And then, I've got people thinking that just because I'm typing this on a pc is reason enough to try and kick me off of this forum. It's not like I'm sitting here mac bashing! I want to learn more about macs, and I'm trying to resist all the crap I get from some of you, but now, I can't.

Finally, I WILL continue to post here, but I'm not listening to any of anyone's crap anymore. Piss me off? *BLOCK* PC bash? *BLOCK* Get the picture?


PS. I apologize to the people that read this and are offended, and aren't the ones that this is directed to. I have no problem with you all, and I thank you for that. There are some of you that have actually helped me when I have a question, and haven't complained about my font or computer. thank you
post #29 of 57
Quote:
First, I've got 2 people who are cocky enough to see that I'm posting in a different/smaller font, and they think I'm saying "If you wanna see it, download it or forever be damned!". I'm not. I'm saying "If you wanna see it, download it, but if you don't, fine, but you don't need to endlessly comment about it.

Or you could post without changing your font at all, which everyone at this forum does with the exception of you.

Is there a particular reason you feel it necessary to make your posts... special?
post #30 of 57
Everything here is the same. I figured, why not add some variety?
post #31 of 57
concerning the font issue:

we have five fonts here:[list=1][*]lucida grande[*]arial[*]times[*]courier[*]century[/list=1] These are the only fonts you can choose. Lucida is the standard one.

It's technically impossible for him to use any other font than the above mentioned. And I believe that these fonts come standard with most operating systems.

So this is a complete non-issue, even if I just made a post about it.
post #32 of 57
i assume the guy was kidding with the "he doesn't even own a Mac" comment, but i suppose not.

*hint* the ignore feature is there for a reason. if someone is really annoying, add them to your ignore list.
post #33 of 57
Ok, I've calmed down a bit... I see what my post said, I see it sounds mean, but I really had to get it out.

Concerning the font, I wasn't sure about it (I'm used to phpBB and they don't have [font] tags)


P.S. I've already made good use of the block feature
post #34 of 57
Oh, I see he was just making the size smaller.

*shrug*

Whatever floats your boat.

post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
i assume the guy was kidding with the "he doesn't even own a Mac" comment, but i suppose not.

*hint* the ignore feature is there for a reason. if someone is really annoying, add them to your ignore list.

well, yeah, but then it's like watching/listening to someone on their hands-free cell phone, where you only hear their side of the conversation.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan
i'm telling y'all if i don't get avatars on here five minutes ago i'm leaving



It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
Reply
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
Reply
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by alcimedes
i assume the guy was kidding with the "he doesn't even own a Mac" comment, but i suppose not.

*hint* the ignore feature is there for a reason. if someone is really annoying, add them to your ignore list.

should I take that to mean I am annoying? I just think people don't get me, but no bother, I enjoy the conversation. The smokey smilie can be done by anyone, but so can Bach, it is the way it is played.


The thing for avatars is, some people make some crap avatars, and some of them are way too easy to choose. What happens when 17 people have Strong Bad? At the Apple Support Discussions boards, they have a certain number of avatars that people can have, and then it sort of gets confusing when you see the same avatar representing several different people in the same thread.

What is the purpose for the avatar? A way to show individuality or represent who someone is? I think there are enough options for those already, without a 32x32 image.

EDIT: psgamer0921, what did I ever do to you, come on, duder.
post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by DMBand0026
Dude, he doesn't even own a Mac. He shouldn't be allowed here anyway.

Everyone is welcome to post here... mac or no mac.
Hell only one third of my posts are done on a mac anyway.

post #39 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by \\/\\/ickes
Everyone is welcome to post here... mac or no mac.
Hell only one third of my posts are done on a mac anyway.


Hi Wickes -

But how many people feel the way you do about who posts on this board?

I think most people would 'want' a Powerbook if they had a chance to see and use one for even five minutes. They are SO beautiful. Truly lovely and magnificent works of art. Sigh. Every detail of construction and appearance seem of the highest quality to me.

Okay, so I'm sick and twisted because I love my laptop. hehe. I can live with that.

Carol
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
Reply
Much have I seen and known...yet all experience is an arch, wherethrough gleams that untravelled world whose margin fades forever and forever when I move. - Tennyson
Reply
post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally posted by Carol A
Hi Wickes -

But how many people feel the way you do about who posts on this board?
--snip--

Hello Carol A,

There are a few anti-PC users on this forum, just live with them. Most other forum members are just anti Micro$oft, this does not mean they hate PCs, just the software. I don't hate Mirco$oft but I do dislike some aspects of there existance. I use Linux on my home x86 PCs and only boot into WinXP for games and some school work.

Anyway, just don't preach about PC in anyway that makes macs look bad. This is a bad idea.

I use both platforms and I will fight to the death if I was forced to give up one of them...

Oh, and I also love the PowerBook too... "
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