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What do we KNOW? previously: REAL Facts

post #1 of 14
12/28/01 at 6:37pm
Thread Starter 
Id like to start a thread where we put out everything related to Apple, MOT or IBM that pertains to hardware and see where that really points us. Once we get some real meat we can start to make truly infomed guesses as to what we will see at Macworld.

I'll start with some things, and invite others to add.

1) The current G4 lineup will be 2 years old in January. It was a shock to everyone at the time that they were released.

2) The have NOT scaled well.

3) The current crop of G4's are highly discounted or sales incentivized. "Crystal Clear Savings" $500 dollars off a G4 purchased with an LCD screen. This is a G4 discount, not an LCD discount. Have you seen or heard about the significant developer discounts on CPU's released only 2 weeks ago?

4) All discounts expire on or just a few short weeks after macworld.

5) Motorola has stated that the G4 has plenty of room left. (this really isnt stating much when it's taken them 2 years to go from 350 to 867.

6) MOT 8540 has been discussed much by MOT. Have we EVER heard a company talk up an imbedded version of a processor before the host processor they are usually derived from? Who is MOT's only true CPU customer?

ok, enough from me... who's next?

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: Hi Ho Quicksilver ]</p>
Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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post #2 of 14
12/28/01 at 6:46pm
Well, Some Renan guy here swears the G4 will scale to 2.0ghz. Not sure if that's what we will get in Jan since it seems like we won't be getting the G5s (AtAT) but I thought the G4 only scales to 1.0ghz.

Well, hopefully, whatever we get will be at least 1.2ghz, faster bus and DDR memory and that X.2 is a lot faster than is currently.
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post #3 of 14
12/28/01 at 7:06pm
For some real info, follow this link to download a pdf chart.

<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/PPCRMAP.pdf" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/PPCRMAP.pdf</a>

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: murk ]</p>
When they said "Think Different", I ran with it.
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When they said "Think Different", I ran with it.
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post #4 of 14
12/28/01 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by murk:
<strong>For some real info, follow this link to download a pdf chart.

<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/PPCRMAP.pdf" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/PPCRMAP.pdf</a>

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: murk ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Interesting. Created on November 20, 2001. Not sure that we can take that as gospel though. Interesting that they state the G3 as maxing at 450. Also interesting that they state the G4 as 1GHz +. Not sure any of this points to anything new... However, i do see it interesting that the G5 lists an 800MHz starting speed.
Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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post #5 of 14
12/28/01 at 10:04pm
[quote]Originally posted by Hi Ho Quicksilver:
<strong>
6) MOT 8540 has been discussed much by MOT. Have we EVER heard a company talk up an imbedded version of a processor before the host processor they are usually derived from? Who is MOT's only true CPU customer?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

There are plenty of Motorola processors which have no non-embedded counterpart. The HC11/12/16 families, the MCore, and a bunch of the 5xx embedded PPC parts (or was that the 8xx parts?). Most of Moto's chip business is in the embedded space and so that's where they are pushing their wares the most. I wouldn't be surprised if the 8450 had nothing whatsoever to do with the 8500... and I also wouldn't be surprised if all desktop PPC business was sold off. Moto is in pretty sorry shape these days. IBM and AMD would be more inspiring partners if Apple can pry AltiVec out of Moto's cold, dead fingers...
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #6 of 14
12/28/01 at 10:25pm
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>

There are plenty of Motorola processors which have no non-embedded counterpart. The HC11/12/16 families, the MCore, and a bunch of the 5xx embedded PPC parts (or was that the 8xx parts?). Most of Moto's chip business is in the embedded space and so that's where they are pushing their wares the most. I wouldn't be surprised if the 8450 had nothing whatsoever to do with the 8500... and I also wouldn't be surprised if all desktop PPC business was sold off. Moto is in pretty sorry shape these days. IBM and AMD would be more inspiring partners if Apple can pry AltiVec out of Moto's cold, dead fingers...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, if it is the 8450 (not the 8540 I seem to have quoted/misquoted) then I would agree on the embedded vs nonembedded market. And yes, there have been plenty of nonembedded chips from MOT, but they have solely been nonembedded chips. Isnt there enough evidence to prove that the 8450/8540 is related to the nonembedded chip?

Yes, MOT is in dire circumstances. And at some point, they will certainly sell what they can in order to keep the rest of the body alive. My hope is that somehow IBM is involved heavily with Apple on the G5 and they are using IBM's version of AltiVec.
Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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post #7 of 14
12/28/01 at 10:30pm
I've read a lot of info that says Apple in doing the G5 pretty exclusively inhouse. Could Apple do the chip(s) entirely themselves and have IBM fab it?
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post #8 of 14
12/28/01 at 10:49pm
It says that the g3 only goes to 450mhz because i believe the motorola g3 only went to 450mhz. Since then ibm has been making the g3s used in apple's systems.
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post #9 of 14
12/29/01 at 7:29am
Woops, you're right -- its number is 8540. I wouldn't read too much into part numbers, however. They've got an 8540, 8245, 8241, and 8240... and all of them are 32-bit processors. The 8540's claim-to-fame is the on-chip peripheral set and memory controller, all linked with an extremely fast crossbar switch. Very cool. If the rumoured 8500 shares anything with its cousins in the 8xxx series, it will probably be that -- essentially the Book "E" stuff.

Much of the original Somerset PPC design team was from Apple, wasn't it? Its not outside the realm of possibility that Apple has done much of the 8500 work, and that might explain why Moto hasn't said anything about it. The PowerPC trio has always been tight lipped in the past (even their roadmaps) due to the problems in getting 3 companies to agree on what to say publicly. Chip design is quite an expense, but Apple might consider it since Moto has put them through such pain in the last few years (and in the latter days of the 680x0).

This is all pure speculation, of course.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #10 of 14
12/29/01 at 11:03am
"Samples of the MPC8540 are expected to be available in the second half of 2002."
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #11 of 14
12/29/01 at 1:18pm
And now for something completely different:
<a href="http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/oct2001/new-prod2.html" target="_blank"> IBM PPC 405LP </a>; SoC, integrating interfaces for RAM, LCD, DMA, serial, PCMCIA, touch panels , etc. Includes hardware support for voice recognition, encryption and code compression. Churns through 557 Dhrystone MIPS@500mW and 231 Dhrystone MIPS@53mW and... is designed around the PowerPC ISA! Samples to select customers (who in the world is using the PPC ISA anymore...? ) in Q1/02.
Now, what kind of a machine would *YOU* put this in?
No, PDAs are *O*U*T*!(can't even read the news headlines on them even if they display TV... )
Remember, the original G3@266 MHz did 488 Dhrystone MIPS... .

Yum.

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: heinzel ]</p>
42 = 54 base 13
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42 = 54 base 13
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post #12 of 14
12/29/01 at 1:19pm
woops.double

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: heinzel ]</p>
42 = 54 base 13
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42 = 54 base 13
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post #13 of 14
12/29/01 at 1:29pm
Now THAT is interesting, heinzel. Is that the first mention of this on the board?
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post #14 of 14
12/29/01 at 1:55pm
TCO, I don't know. The processor was announced at Microprocessor forum '01 in Nov. I think that's one great chip, improving on the StrongARM idea by addressing the extensive memory usage of the ISA by leveraging IBM's real time memmory compression technique. The other included features are equally cool. Well, let's wait and see!
42 = 54 base 13
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42 = 54 base 13
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