'Garage Band' - Confirmed! (officially, now) - Page 4

I believe you can in fact make chord changes, as you can within Soundtrack, and GarageBand is built with similiar coding (as I believe Steve mentioned very briefly during the live demo). I hope that answers your question, and again, I think people are underestimating the ease of use appeal and the actual raw power of this application. In other words, being so easy to use helps make it so creatively dangerous! It will sell Macs of all different sorts to any parent wanting his or her child to experiment with making their own music! For the professional, it's a complete package for wanting to make a quick score, in which he can export to Soundtrack, and then place in sequence within FCP4!
I love it!

What cord changes in Soundtrack? I never read the instructions, but I couldn't get chords to change, or volume down portions of loops during a clip. You should be able to key-frame that stuff, and adjust at point's, but I don't think you can.

All I know is that during Jobs' demo, whenever they were using loops, there were no chord changes. Neither during Steve's little John Tesh tune nor when that guitarist played his solo over the loop he had created.

The only time I heard changes was when Jobs played what he called a jazz combo (or something like that), and switched the vibraphone to organ etc. But that wasn't a loop, it was from user-entered MIDI input.

Eh, I'll stop my wondering. I ordered it today, and $29 (edu) seemed so cheap I went ahead and added the extras pack for $79. We can post our reviews when we get 'em.

I'm getting mine next week, BRussell. Please come here and talk all about it when you receive yours please. I have about 3 or 4 questions and you'd make a nice guinea pig...



These keyboards, the USB one that costs $99, simply plugs DIRECTLY into the Mac, right? Right into my PowerBook's USB port?

As far as recording vocals and acoustic guitar, I'm guessing I'd need some sort of hardware to bridge that gap between the mic (I have an audiotechnica something-or-other from way back when I used to play for money) and the Mac?

Something like this?

Also, when referring to these controller keyboards, what, exactly, does "velocity-sensitive" mean or refer to?

I can't wait to get my hands on this app!!!

I was looking at that m-audio midi box as well pscates. I think I may get one, but I don't need it immediately.
I'm getting it iLife , and the GarageBand extras package at my local Apple store on the 16th. I'm not going to wait, or pay for shipping when I live 4 - 5 miles from an Apple retail outlet.

Same here. A quick 90 trip to Atlanta is totally cool with me (lunch, shopping, visit some guitar stores, etc.). I'll hold off on that box and I intend to buy iLife 04 (or course) AND those JBL Creature speakers, which I've been wanting for a while (my friend has them with her iBook...REALLY nice). And they've dropped to $99, so...



So that's $148 I'll drop. I MIGHT (probably will) pick up that keyboard as well. Steve said they'll be available in the retail stores as well.

So, $250 to get me started. If I really just blow my mind and realize this is indeed all I'm hoping it is, I'll ask for the Jam Pack for my birthday (late January).



I play keyboards just enough to be good (know the notes, chords, can basically fumble through any song and do a passable Jerry Lee Lewis boogie/bash...even though I tend to approach it all from a guitarist's point of view, I can hold my own), so I could dial up a bitchin' acoustic bass sound and lay it over some bongos and then add a "99 Tears" organ and then lay on some banjo and then sprinkle a bit of tuba on for good measure and...



This is so wonderful. This will pull me back into music again, I feel. I really, really needed this. You have no idea...

Kinda bummed I sold my Danelectro...

USB midi keyboards plug directly into your mac via USB, then operate as triggers for midi samples and events.

Velocity sensitive means that if you press the keyboard softly the note will play softly, if you hammer on the keyboard, the note will play at max volume.

The USB mobile Pre is an EXCELLENT choice for the hobbyist, or first time home recorder. It's also pretty perfect for a general use bridge, and is an overall kick ass product, and the price isn't bad either.

Another option, since you are considering getting the USB mobile pre, is to get a midi keyboard, that doesn't have USB, they are generally $40-50 cheaper, and provide the same results, you would just have to plug the keyboard into the USB mobile pre then plug that into the USB port on your computer.

the only thing that might be an issue then is if you end up using the keyboard, and a mic and maybe even a guitar(friend) all at once, you might get some latency issues, but for one track at a time stuff, you'll be fine.


wow, I'm really impressed with the effect this application is having on people, everyone is coming out of the woodworks starry eyed and ready to have a lot of fun making music that's so cool!

Wrong Robot, does that $99 keyboard also act as a true, standalone keyboard instrument too, right? It's not just a "push here to trigger this action" device. I can actually PLAY it, right, as Mayer was yesterday (not the same keyboard, of course).

This is a decent 49-key, "let me play a bass line or string section passage" product, right? Chords, both hands, etc.

I'm so ignorant about this whole arena (digital music).



As for the "velocity-sensitive", I thought that was what it meant. I'd just always heard "touch sensitive" or whatnot.

Yeah, I figure within a few months or so, there will need to be a separate music-dedicated forum here at AI, where everyone can post links to their latest masterpiece.



This is REALLY going to create waves and kick-start some long dormant musical passion and interest (namely mine).

Oh, and as a postscript to a post of mine from over the weekend where I snidely stated that Microsoft, Dell and others look to Apple for "what's next" or things to copy, mark this one down, fellas: keep an eye out for a "make your own studio!" app from Microsoft or whoever in the very near feature (by autumn 2004).

You know it, I know it, they know. All these companies never know quite what to do until Steve says so (digital music, "digital hub", mp3 players integrated with store/jukebox software, consumer digital video, etc.)



Microsoft DigiStudio, coming October 2004...

Yea only MS DigiStudio would be so crappy that you couldn't save to a non-wma file unless you spring for an additional encoder.

On it's own, the keyboard is lifeless, it gets it's power from the computer, sounds et al.

There ARE keyboards with extensive sound libraries built in AND midi capabilities, that you can plug in to a computer and use as a controller, or play it without a computer, but they cost $$$ to get one that is any good that is

the beauty part about software triggering is that it's infinitely more expandable and update-able, sampling software will improve, sounds will get more and more life like, and your keyboard will still work just fine.

remember, MIDI is a VERY old technology, dating back about 30 years, keyboards and triggers from back then STILL work just as fine today as they did in then.

The $99, 49 key M-audio keyboard apple is selling is a GREAT keyboard, I find that about 80% of the time when I am making music with midi(reason) the 49 key, keyboard I use is just fine. Some people like to have weighted keys, some people like o have 61 or even full sized 88 key keyboards. and that's fine, but for what I do, I rarely need to be playing out of the 4 octave range the 49 key provides.

That said, 2 octave keyboards like the Ozone8 or the oxygen8, I CANNOT work with, I am always limited with those, because the music I creat requires more than just one button at a time, I do chords and stuff, so that just doesn't work well for me.

but for general use 49 keys is just fine.

Remeber, you're a powerbook user, you don't want to bog down your portable music product capabilities with a 61 key keyboard.


which is another thing entirely, USB keyboards are great because they are far more portable than midi keyboards using USB midi hubs, so that's a big advantage.

I too am VERY excited about garageband, I'm going to the berklee school of music in a week, it will be a great compliment to reason, finale, and whatever else I'll be using.

if anything, garageband will definitely help to keep music making FUN, which is what it should be, programs that are a chore to use, undermine a big part about what makes music so great, imo

Looking forward to it.


Yeah, that's really nice. I had to get one of those Edirol MIDI-USB adaptors for another $50 for my keyboard. I noticed Apple is selling those now too.

I'm not sure under what conditions you need that stuff. An electric guitar will plug right into the Mac, without any extras (except a 1/4" to miniplug cable). Well, that's assuming you have audio line-in on your machine. I'm not sure about a mic. It seems like you could just plug a mic into the line-in, too. But I don't know if that's the same thing as with the guitar. And I know you can plug a mic into your mac and make beep sounds and record into SoundStudio and the like, so it seems like it would work. WrongRobot?
Yeah, remember when that guitarist was playing guitar sounds through the piano? When he hit the key a little harder, it gave that slide sound like he was sliding up from a lower fret. Pretty cool. On my keyboard, on many of the wind instruments if you hit a little harder it will go slightly flat, like you're really blowin'.

It just means that the keyboard is aware of the velocity/speed with which you hit the keys and will adjust the sound (depending upon the instrument) appropriately.

you can plug your instrument directly into your computer via a 1/4-1/8" adaptor just don't expect to get a very clear sound.

My bass has active electronics, meaning that an 9v battery powers a preamp inside my bass, as such, if I plug into something unamplified, I am able to a achieve a SLIGHT signal, but it's generally VERY weak.

an outboard I/O like the USB mobile pre is a good solution because it AMPLIFIES the signal, and gives you not only a lot more control over your sound, but it makes it a lot easier to capture audio.

Currently I use my Mixer, which is a Dj mixer for turntables, it's a POS, but it amplifies a signal, it's really makeshift, but it works, then I use sound studio to capture the audio.

it's a very inelegant solution, and I have little control over it.

I am still trying to figure out the best way to use my amp head's line out, I think I just need a new cable(my current spare is crappy)


I have recently been using my iSight to record video performances of songs I'm working on, to show to the good folks at talkbass.com (my home on the internet) I have found that the audio quality is generally really good, it isn't GREAT, but it gets the job done.

www.whmoh.com/stuff/Fantasy.avi

There's an example, (22MB .avi) of the audio, the video quality suffered because I made it .avi for the mostly windows using audience at TB, but the audio is still audible, and it doesn't sound that bad either, the song is "chromatic fantasy" by bach, as played by jaco, and yes, I **** up a lot, but give me a break that song is a BEAST

I digress.

From what I understand(from earlier in the thread) Garageband provides software amplification, a concept that while theoretically sound, is VERY new to me, so I don't really know anything about it, if that's the case, then WITH GARAGEBAND, you will be able to simply plug your guitar(or bass ) directly into your computer with a 1/4- 1/8" adaptor and enjoy full, amplified sound.

Yeah, I think it was Jaguar that got Core Audio, which allowed products like Amplitube Live to have zero latency in a software amp. But I don't know if the same thing applies to mics. At the least, if you wanted more than just one thing at a time, or if you don't have a line-in, that USB audio thingy looks like a good idea.

I owned a Line6 Pod and that thing was AMAZING. Probably get one again, now that I'll be returning to the fold.



That thing comes with tons of amp models and sounds great.

USB interfaces will work, but you might want to look at a firewire interface like M-Audio FireWire 410 or Metric Halo's Mobile I/O 2882 or ULN-2.

They are the ones I've been thinking about getting for my powerbook based DAW. I'm leaning toward the ULN-2 because of the great pre-amps, but then I think I might need more then two inputs, so I'm still really undecided.

I was at the Expo yesterday and had a quick run with the program. Its going to be soo much fun.

I play guitar and was under the impression that I would need something like the mobil bus-powered pre-amp to get the guitar in. Didn't realize it may also work with just the cable adapter. The sales rep from guitar center also said they make firewire preamps (for about double the cost) and that they have a higher bit-rate. Does anybody know what the sound quality is between these three options (monster cable adapter, usb pre-amp, firewire pre-amp)? Then again the biggest sound quality issue probably comes from my playing.

Any idea if effects (reverb etc) can be added to recordings. The Apple guy standing by my iMac at the Expo was bit clueless. I could bend the pitch and change the length of the notes, but couldn't find much else i could do. There was a drop-down menu for velocity and a few other things, but it ddidn'w effect the notes playing in throught the m-audio keyboard.

I think you'll be impressed with what it can do if you just plug it into the mac. The only reason I say that is because I have a copy of that Amplitube Live, and it's fantastic, and I'm guessing GB will work in roughly the same fashion.


Here's a pic with some of the stuff you can do.


Here's a line from right next to that picture that really surprised me:

Is it me, or are they saying you can actually edit MIDI? That would be fantastic (although somehow I don't really believe it).

I HIGHLY doubt Paul will need that kind of firepower.

though, I'll take one thank you very much

If by editing midi you mean editing the sound waves created, that's not possible in the confines a midi program, but it is easy to export any midi recording as audio(.aif) which can then be edited in a wave editor like soundstudio.

as far as editing note placement, length, timing...etc all this is VERY possible with MIDI, in fact that's what it was designed for, pretty much.

Midi events are just trigger data, all it does is tell the software, do X, for Y length, at Z velocity with T modulation, R attack, E decay...etc...etc.

and as such, it is very easy to edit those values and change the way things are laid out.


So I'm a little bit confused by what you mean.

Hey, what's THAT mean?!? I'm a player!



22 years, my man.

But yeah, being new to this aspect of it (digital music and all), I guess I don't need any excessive (and expensive) "firepower" at this point.

No, you got it, I'm talking about editing the MIDI parameters. Right now I use Intuem (version 1). I just didn't think an app like this would do that. So now I'm wondering what kind of editing features it has. Ah, something else to worry about for the next week.

Yeah, BRussel. I thought Garage Band would be midi-ily challenged and not be able to work with the actual midi. I think it would also be cute to be able to print out the sheet music of what you played and have the score be all pretty.

If garageband had scoring capabilities, I think it would be too ultimate to handle, and I would eat my bass.

Dude, you know those teaching events they have in Apple Retail Stores - imagine them doing a Garage Band piece where they have a bunch of keyboards and people step up!

Some would choose guitar, others keyboard, and some would just rock out with the Apple Loops!

That has to attract customers (which become the loyal hoards). Jammin' in the Apple Store.

I love Apple.

heh! that'd be awesome, if they actually had free and open jam sessions regularly.



that'd be so neat.

Well actually there is a difference. Velocity sensitive is as explained above; the harder/faster you hit the key (hence velocity), the louder the note. (Or in the demo this was used to "bend" into a note when playing the software guitar instrument.)

True touch sensitive instruments don't measure how fast you play the note, they measure how hard the key is pressed, and can continue to do so while you hold down the key. So hit the note hard and let go, and the note plays loudly. Hit soflty aand it plays softly, so far it's similar, but hit the notes softly and keep the keys down, then slowly press harder and harder and the note gets louder and louder. Slowly take the pressure off and the note quiets. Of course this effect is most useful on instruments where there is a long sustain period like an organ or wind, brass, and string instruments.

If a salesman says it's touch sensitive, better make sure!

I have a question about GarageBand maybe someone knows the answer to.

After I record from my keyboard, can i tweak the notes in the program? The GarageBand pages on Apple's site seem to imply that you can "fix it". But does that mean I have to rerecord? And can I enter notes one by one via the computer? The site also shows an on screen keyboard. I'm right handed and I play the piano, except I'm now disabled and can't use my right hand to play anymore so you see I need to be able to edit!

TIA to anyone who knows!

BK

Inputting midi notes thru a midi keyboard, into a midi based application(garageband, works equally with midi as it does live audio) will enable you to tweak the midi, shift note positions, quantize, change volume, even change what instrument is used.

When I tried it out it worked this way:

You double click your track in the upper window and it opens a more detailed view below. The notes are represented by lines at different levels. the length of the lines is, off course, proportional to the length of the note. They had a neat quick fix button to automatically adjust timing. This was demonstrated (by Steve or Expo demo-forgot?) with a simple drum pattern played on the keyboard. One hit of the button and all the slight variations in timing were zapped.

Editing the notes: If you clicked on the individual lines you could shorten or lengthen the notes. I guess you can delete, but I actually forgot to try that. The drop window in the same edit pane has parameters that can be adjusted, like pitch. I don't know how they measured it, by % perhaps, it was some large numbers. It wasn't obvious how much you had to change the pitch to go from C to D for instance. I guess thats were ears come in. There were other options in the drop down window that when selected resulted in my notes no longer being available to edit, the Apple guy didn't have a clue either.

If what I described requires Midi, well its got it to some degree. Otherwise sorry for ignorance.

PS. I just looked at Apples site and I didn't see any pictures of the part I just described. But, i did see the reverb etc options. WOW, all that for the cost of a single foot pedal effect box.

yeah, that's just like Reason, and pretty much any other midi sequencing app I've ever used.

With that, I think it should be noted, just because I sense a little confusion maybe?

"virtual instruments" are midi, granted they are high quality samples, they are still triggered by a midi controller, and they still work like midi, whereas general midi(the type you hear in QT music instruments, and millions of other like minded programs) takes one sample and stretches it across a keyboard(for the most part) to save space, higher quality samples, often take the full range of the instrument, at various different settings, and combine them to create a very good sounding instrument that can be triggered with a keyboard.

for a sense of scale, I've seen piano synthesis/sample dealies that take up about 1.2 GB just for this ONE piano

And in case there is any more confusion about MIDI, it stands for Musical Instrument Device Input

To the one who posed the question about inputting chord changes, I have no wisdom to offer. But I do appreciate you asking the question. It is exactly the question I had. I also appreciated the person who tried to answer it. I have a PC software title called Band In A Box (BIAB). It is awesome. All you have to do is input your chord progression, (instrument not required), and you get perfect accompaniment with the instruments you have chosen playing in the style you selected. You can lay down live tracks on top of that. It is a pretty neat piece of software. Does GB or even ST allow for that kind of ease of use? Another scenario I wouldn't mind is playing a chord progression or song through a midi KB, then having GB play back an appropriate accompaniment with user selected instruments and styles. Is this possible with GB. I have never used a loops program and so I have no idea how they work. I can see where they would be good for drums, but I have no idea how to go about making real music with them. I understand how loops are useful for rap, dance, and the like. I have no interest in such garbage. I am interested in more melodic forms of music such as soft rock, ballads, country, classical, and the like. How do I make such music with loops? I don't need help creating a song or coming up with musical themes. I just need accompaniment and/or full orchestration for songs I have already written. Is this what GB does or do I continue to use BIAB. Sorry if this question seems repetitive. Nothing in the keynote demo or on Apple's Website makes this clear. I am a composer in need of accompaniment, not a wannabe in need of talent. I can't figure out which category of person GB is designed for. Thanks for your insight.

Yeah, that's one of the things I'm a bit unclear on. How "static" is this going to be? I certainly could have endless fun doing loops, stacking instruments, changing nistruments, etc. But at some point, I'm going to want to chnge a chord, introduce a bridge, etc.



I'm sure I'll figure it all out next week.

I want to be able to do 3-minute, self-contained songs...with chord changes and whatnot. Not just dance-ready, repetitive loops that go forever.



Even though, for practice and simply playing and having fun again is more than worth the $49 price. I'm just hoping it does what I'm hoping it does (acoustic/voice/bass/percussion/keyboard 3-minute demo recordings and so forth). A true computer-based multitrack demo studio?

Mac Voyer etc.

I think what you want is possible to some degree from what I saw. You can add loops at any point in the performance and mix and match. In other words it doesn't have to be the same drum beat fro the entire piece. Since you can edit to some degree, the whole thing gives you quite a bit of freedom to build on the provided loops. I guess there comes a point, however, when what you want is notes as you hear them in your head, thats whne you need a keyboard etc to enter them yourself.
Nonetheless, the amount of different things that can be pasted together with the provided loops is quite large.

Yeah, I'm pretty certain it's not going to have band-in-a-box functionality.

Even if you can change chords in the middle of a composition (and I'm not at all convinced you can), there's still the problem of the color of the chord. If your loop sample is minor it's gonna stay minor. At least, that will be true of the blue (Apple-provided real instrument loop samples) and purple (recording of yourself from line-in). It will be interesting to see to what extent you can edit the notes of the green (MIDI) loop samples to change chord color. I'm guessing you can't, at least if they're Apple-provided. But if you can, that would be one way to go.

This is especially important for jazz, where the specific color of the chord can really matter. Even a regular dom. 7th chord won't do the trick if you need something like 7#9#5 to play an altered scale.

Of course you can input your own sections with a MIDI keyboard - if nothing else you could input the whole set of changes, but add the drum loops, and then set it to repeat. You can probably even transpose the whole thing up and down, but I doubt you can tell it to change the minor to a m7-5, unless you can do it manually.

I'll be interested in seeing if you can create your own loop sections that act like the Apple-provided ones. Then maybe you could input a 4-bar section of a chord, and then change notes to change the color, and piece it together into a set of changes. It wouldn't be as easy as band-in-a-box, but it would probably sound a lot better.

Mac Voyer (voyeur?) it sounds like you're in the same boat as me, but from what I saw in the demo at the keynote, it's entirely possible to create music without using the loops.

When GarageBand arrives here on the 16th, the only loops I know I'll absolutely need are the drum loops since I just don't have the space for a drum kit in my apartment. I play keys, I have a bass player and a guitar player (and a drummer too, but since GarageBand doesn't seem to allow recording more than one track at a time it would be impossible to record live drums unless it was just with a room microphone. No chance of mic'ing each drum and recording separate tracks).

Can one plug all the mics into a mixing board and then plug the output into GB as one stream?

I suppose that would be possible, but you'd still have to record each instrument separately I think. i.e. you'd mic the drum kit however you needed to, run those mics into a separate mixer and the mixer into GarageBand (Tascam and other companies make FireWire and USB options for this) and record through GarageBand. THEN you could go back and record your bass track, your guitars, etc. You'd be limited in what you could do to the drums after they're recorded into GarageBand since you won't be able to tinker with the sound of individual drum tracks, only the entire kit as one track.

I may be wrong, though. Does anyone know for certain if it's possible to arm and record more than one track at the same time in GarageBand?

I've been up and down the "Record" page for GB a dozen times and it doesn't clarify whether or not you can record multiple tracks at the same time (there is a 64 track limit, I remember that from the keynote). However, some of the "accessories" can send >1 track at a time so maybe you just need the proper mixer? After all, they do say you can use it to record live performances, and there aren't too many solo bands out there.

I called the Apple store to see if someone could shed some light on this for me. They could not. They did say that it would work just like ST. Unfortunately, I do not know anything about how ST works either. Perhaps someone else could call in and maybe get lucky enough to talk to someone with musical and product knowledge. Otherwise, I will just have to wait for a little over a week for others to report in.

By the way, I know my name is spelled wrong. It was a mistake when I first became a member. One day I will have a mod correct it for me. But for now, it is one of the things that keeps me humble.