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'Garage Band' - Confirmed! (officially, now) - Page 6

post #201 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by DCQ
It's a bass.

I almost got a seven string (used) back in college. But even used it was more than I could afford.

But I drooled over it for a good three months.

I don't know about today, but six- and seven-strings became very popular when I was in college. RHCP were huge--and didn't suck yet --so of course everyone wanted to be the "next" Flea (and what better way to be better than to play a bass with more strings... ). And people were even beginning to hear of a band called "Primus" and some guy named Les who did the wierdest things with a bass and made it sound like an instrument that was destined for greater things than a mere rhythm keeper. I stuck with my puny, sad, cheap but reliable 4-string Fender and became a decent--though by no means great--player.

Gawd. Even thinking about playing that 7-string monstrosity at this point makes my fingers hurt! But maybe I'll be able to once again someday soon...



How about this 8)


Note, the world's only double neck fretted/fretless 7 string bass


Oh yeah, these aren't mine, I'm a 4 string purist, but I still think that 7 strings are pretty neat.
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post #202 of 246
That must be JT's collection! I know that couch!
post #203 of 246
yeah it is, you a Talkbassist too?
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post #204 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Actually I've seen these things go for < $1,000 used at the local GC. They had two Conklin 7 strings for the longest time. I believe they aren't that unaffordable. In fact there are 2 Conklin 7 string basses for sale on Ebay right now and the bids are at $650 & 700 US.

Ummm... yeah. But I went to college 92-96. They were much less common back then. The used fretless 7-string I wanted was going for $1500, and that was insanely cheap. In today's dollars that's probably close to $3000. A little much for a college kid putting himself through school to spend on a hobby.

If I get back into playing, I might take a look at what's out there. But I came to love my 4-string (which needs new strings desperately now), and began to believe that, for most people, 6- and 7-strings were a way around lack of skill, and a way to impress people who didn't know better. Plus, I have like responsibilities and stuff now (family, mortage, car payment, bills, etc.), so $700 is not something I can just drop on a whim.

DCQ
post #205 of 246
Wrong Robot,

Totally dude (I'm WillPlay4Food over there)! I can't wait to plug my Schecter Stiletto Studio 4 into GB! I've only been playing for about 2 years but I totally love the low end!
post #206 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
How about this 8)


Note, the world's only double neck fretted/fretless 7 string bass


Oh yeah, these aren't mine, I'm a 4 string purist, but I still think that 7 strings are pretty neat.

lol

...and is that a dead cat under the corner seat?
post #207 of 246
A lot of people have misconceptions about extended range basses "oh they're not really a bass" "the player must really suck if he needs all those strings to get noticed" "he must be compensating for something"...etc.

but really, When you look at it, JT(the owner of those basses) has all the range of a 4 string bass in first position. for some people, that's reason enough to buy a 7 or 8 string. So that they can think vertically and not horizontally.
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post #208 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Wrong Robot,

Totally dude (I'm WillPlay4Food over there)! I can't wait to plug my Schecter Stiletto Studio 4 into GB! I've only been playing for about 2 years but I totally love the low end!

yeah, I'm wrong robot, heh, in case you didn't guess
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post #209 of 246
How much better is the Grand Piano in the Jam Pack than the on included with GarageBand?
post #210 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
yeah, I'm wrong robot, heh, in case you didn't guess

I had wondered but I kinda guessed you were the same when I saw the GB topic on TB.
post #211 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebagakid
How much better is the Grand Piano in the Jam Pack than the on included with GarageBand?

Well, we won't know till we hear them(I wish apple had included sound bytes on their GB page) But on stage didn't steve say that the built-in one was a $50,000 grand and the jam pack one was a $150,000 grand?

eh...not that that really tells you anything, For all you know you might prefer the default one, just depends what you are going for and all that.
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post #212 of 246
Yes! In addition to some sound samples on Apple's GarageBand page, I'd also like (even if only in the form of a downloadable PDF) a complete listing of the instruments included (as well as the additional ones in JamPack).

I've scrutinized those little icons in the GarageBand section of Apple's site half a bazillion times and I want to see some new instruments!



Although, the ones I've seen have been very exciting. Two in particular - bagpipes and a pedal steel - have me all torqued up for next Friday!

Oh, and here's a question that Wrong Robot or someone can answer (and again, I'm SO new to all this digital stuff, so forgive me if this is an idiotic question).

I don't doubt my ability to get some nice strings and keyboard types of sounds from playing keyboards (chording, held notes, backgrounds, etc.).

But, being a guitarist first and foremost, what I'd REALLY dig is the ability (with the guitar and amp samples) is to be able to plug in an electric guitar and "play" bass lines or sax solo parts or whatever.

In other words, my lead/solo abilities are MUCH better on a guitar, as is my bass playing. I'd love to be able to lay down a bass line using, say, that cool jazzy stand-up bass instrument, BUT play it on a guitar neck as opposed to a keyboard.

Is this possible? Would this, I'm guessing, require some sort of guitar with a MIDI interface or capability? THAT would be the best of both worlds! Strings, horns, choir, piano, organs, etc. played on the keyboards, accessing all those instrument sounds. Guitar, bass, single-note stuff, solos, etc. played on a guitar (and accessing all those instrument sounds).

Does this make sense? Did I explain myself right?
post #213 of 246
Are there certain types of guiltars that are needed to work with Garageband.

What kind of interfaces and cables would one need.

Trying to find out for a buddy of mine.

Thanks.
post #214 of 246
yeah, see, with the Guitar audio, or any audio for that matter, all you can do is manipulate the audio feed. With MIDI, it is data and no audio and that is how you can make it into different instruments.

You are right, a Guitar that could translate the way you play into data, it would be great for you. I don't know if that exists.
post #215 of 246
Well, I'll say this: if this DOESN'T exist, them some company should step up and make a $99-149 guitar (like that m-audio e49 keyboard...no frills, simple and affordable) that is made to work with GarageBand.

Looks aren't important, nor is weight and - I'd imagine - pickups, body wood, etc. since, like the m-audio keyboard I'm getting, it's next to useless unless hooked to a computer or whatnot and accesses its sounds from the GarageBand instrument library.

How cool would it be to plug in a guitar like this AND in addition to dialing up a, say, "British Invasion" amp setting, you can also dial in, for example, "1960's Rickenbacker 12-string" or "1953 Fender Telecaster".

I know Line 6 makes a modeling guitar called Variax. I'm not sure how expensive they are. Probably quite a bit, since all the tech is onboard.

With GarageBand, it's all in the software, so you just need a fingerboard, strings, maybe a volume knob, decent bridge and tuners, 6 strings and a USB connection.



Plug it, as with that e49 keyboard, right into your Mac and become Ace Frehley, George Benson or whoever.

post #216 of 246
pscates: you can buy special pickups that convert pitch into MIDI data, that can then go to the synthesizer and come out bagpipes or whatever. Or you can buy special guitars I think that have that built in. I'd be interested in the results of your research into how much it all costs.


msantti: No special guitar, and Apple says you can plug your guitar right into your Mac, but there's some debate about how good that will sound. If that doesn't work very well, and Apple marketing is just lying, then your, uh, "friend" can get an audio interface to go between the guitar and the Mac for about $50 and up.
post #217 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell pscates: you can buy special pickups that convert pitch into MIDI data, that can then go to the synthesizer and come out bagpipes or whatever. Or you can buy special guitars I think that have that built in. I'd be interested in the results of your research into how much it all costs.

Why the laugh? Do you know something I don't?

Are we talking gazillions of bucks involved here? I honestly don't know.
post #218 of 246
Roland has MIDI pickups for guitar / bass I believe. I saw a MIDI pickup for bass and it was around / over $1,000 USD. But that was at the beginning of 2003, they may have come down in price since then.

[edit]
I found two Roland bass pickups at musiciansfriend.com , one for $230, another for $1,000. Maybe there's one for a guitar but these are the only 2 that popped up in the search.
post #219 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates
Why the laugh? Do you know something I don't?

Are we talking gazillions of bucks involved here? I honestly don't know.

No no no. I was just smiling because I was telling you to go do research on it. I did find this page:

MIDI Guitar information.

I had a friend in about 8th grade who was a rich kid and had a Roland guitar synthesizer (basically the same thing we're talking about here). That was in about 1984. So they've been around for a while.

I have to wonder about the quality of it though. With a keyboard, you just hit a particular key on the keyboard, and it can send it through to the synthesizer. With guitar, there are all kinds of in-between pitches with bends and being slightly out of tune, etc. You can even play the same note in lots of different places, and they can sound slightly different. I wonder how well it would really work.
post #220 of 246
Holy shit! I've never owned a guitar that costs anywhere NEAR $1000...much less the pickup!

Okay, Robot (and others), explain this to me: is there any technological or logistical reason a sub-$200 (even cheaper?) simple MIDI-based guitar can't be made or available? You see these keyboards for $99 (and less). I realize perhaps more attention has to be paid to the playability of a string-based instrument (compared to just laying out a keyboard), but still.

Is guitar-based MIDI and accompanying gear/gizmos simply pricier from the get-go?

[edit: just read BRussell's post above this one where he spoke to just what I was writing about: guitars/string instruments being a bit more fussy and more open to variations in tracking, attack, etc.]
post #221 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
A lot of people have misconceptions about extended range basses "oh they're not really a bass" "the player must really suck if he needs all those strings to get noticed" "he must be compensating for something"...etc.

but really, When you look at it, JT(the owner of those basses) has all the range of a 4 string bass in first position. for some people, that's reason enough to buy a 7 or 8 string. So that they can think vertically and not horizontally.

Oh, trust me. I know that good bassists can utilize the wider range. But I just think you have to be *really* good. It's hard enough to master a frikin 4-string.

And I knew a lot of (rich) posers that bought 5-, 6-, and 7-string basses just because they thought more strings meant better. About the same time, I saw Spinal Tap for the first time, and Nigel's schtick about his amp going to eleven ("But this is one higher") has had a special place in my heart.
post #222 of 246
My friend has a Midi pick-up on his guitar, and it requires, not only the pick up, but a special floorboard.

it's pretty complicated, basically the pick up, adds onto his guitar giving him 2 normal pickups and 1 midi pickup, he has 3 options, direct(by-pass) midi/normal or just midi.

Direct gives him just his normal guitar sound
midi/direct gives him both sounds at once
midi gives him only the midi sound

the output from the pickup is not a standard midi output, it's a weird proprietary output, then the midi floorboard unit, which stores all the sounds, has standard midi ins and outs.

the whole system cost him about $600 I think, you can get them for cheaper on ebay, but also you have to have a guitar already, to install the pick up.

I have never seen anything drastically cheaper, but I suppose in theory it would be possible to create a sound-less midi pick up just for plugging into a computer, this would likely be a lot cheaper, but it isn't very practical because the home computer recording market is currently fairly small, and the guitar midi systems are designed with live playing in mind.

The real expense comes from the sounds.

true you can find midi keyboards for $99 but they don't have sounds, and you would normally need a couple hundred dollars of software to provide them with a lot of high quality sounds.

Alternatively you can get midi keyboards that have sounds built in, these, on average cost a few hundred dollars more, to get the high quality, flexible, and useable sounds, not just cheap general midi.

So that's a big issue, also it's similar to buying an AIO computer, since the monitor is included, the price is going to be more than a computer without a monitor, but, the convenience of having a built in monitor is worth a lot of the price.
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post #223 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
How about this 8)


Note, the world's only double neck fretted/fretless 7 string bass

Doesn't Claypool have one? I could've sworn I saw him using a fat double-neck in some video or concert footage once. Could be wrong though...
post #224 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Roland has MIDI pickups for guitar / bass I believe. I saw a MIDI pickup for bass and it was around / over $1,000 USD. But that was at the beginning of 2003, they may have come down in price since then.

[edit]
I found two Roland bass pickups at musiciansfriend.com , one for $230, another for $1,000. Maybe there's one for a guitar but these are the only 2 that popped up in the search.

Again, the pick up alone is fairly cheap, it's the floorboard/sound module that costs the big dough.

if I remember correctly, when I was researching roland V-bass stuff, the floorboard is around 600-700, while the pickup is like 200-300 range.
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post #225 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by DCQ
Doesn't Claypool have one? I could've sworn I saw him using a fat double-neck in some video or concert footage once. Could be wrong though...

The only double-neck 7 string in the world.

there are many other double neck basses out there, and guitars, and bass/guitar combos.

I have never seen claypool with a double neck, let alone a double neck 7, but I'm sure he probably has some weird basses.

the guitarist from cheap trick has a 5-necked guitar, that's pretty crazy.

bassist, michael manring, is currently working with ZON to produce a double neck 6 string version of his hyperbass(a bass with 4 de-tuner pegs, bridge tuning capabilities, 3-octaves, and a massive cutaway to play the whole neck, fretless)
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post #226 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot I have never seen anything drastically cheaper, but I suppose in theory it would be possible to create a sound-less midi pick up just for plugging into a computer, this would likely be a lot cheaper, but it isn't very practical because the home computer recording market is currently fairly small, and the guitar midi systems are designed with live playing in mind.

true you can find midi keyboards for $99 but they don't have sounds, and you would normally need a couple hundred dollars of software to provide them with a lot of high quality sounds.

Well that's kinda what I'm saying: this guitar doesn't have to do - or be - anything cute or special. It doesn't have to have "real" pickups. It wouldn't be manufactured (or purchased) with the intention of playing live. It would be manufactured solely as a guitar for all the budding GarageBand monkeys that are sure to coming out of the woodwork in the coming months. Think about it...what a huge, huge market that will be!

I'd go out tomorrow morning and buy one if it existed for an affordable price!!!

The guitar wouldn't have to store anything on board. Wouldn't have to have regular pickups AND MIDI ones. Just the MIDI stuff, because you're buying it only to hook up to your computer and use with GarageBand. You plug it in, as these keyboards via USB or MIDI (personally, I think a guitar with a USB jack on it would be so neat) into the Mac. From there, you can "play" those upright bass or bagpipe or sax licks and parts from the guitar. And/or access all those modeled guitar amps. AND, as a final treat (as I mention earlier), in addition to amp models, how long do you think it would take some enterprising, forward-thinking company (maybe even Line 6 or someone like them) to make software packs made to work with GarageBand, whose sole purpose is to provide guitar modeling software?

Just imagine: "Let's see...let me dial in a Mark Knopfler quacky Strat sound...and I want it playing through a '59 Bassman, and...".

Or "hey, here's a '59 Gretsch Country Gentleman...bitchin'!" TWANG, TWANG, TWANG...



I'll bet by summertime, there will be a solution like this (a guitar and Apple will either produce themselves - OR partner with someone - to produce guitar model software, sold separately (or available for download) as JamPack is.

I'm sure updates to GarageBand will be frequent, with new loops, amp models, instruments, etc. This just ties in to all that.
post #227 of 246
I know much of the discussion thus far has centered on acoustic instruments and audio capturing. But at this point I'm curious how GB would handle what I like to do, which is trancribe classical music into MIDI. As such, I know I'd need a lot of tracks in some instances as well as the ability to fine-tune the details. For instance, judging from what I've read in this thread and a few other places, there is no MIDI events editor in GarageBand nor other slightly more involved techy stuff when it comes to MIDI. Can anybody confirm this at this point?

I'm heading to the Mall of America Apple Retail Store in a couple of weeks anyway, so I could find out then too.
post #228 of 246
At the risk of straying off topic, I wonder if you could offer a MIDI guitar that, , used pressure and location on the fingerboard to help figure out what notes you were playing, and sensors on the bridge to figure out which strings and how hard? Sure, you'd lose a lot of nuance, because it couldn't pick things like string bends up, but it seems like a simple enough solution for a cheap pure-MIDI guitar.

Says the drummer.
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post #229 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by LudwigVan
For instance, judging from what I've read in this thread and a few other places, there is no MIDI events editor in GarageBand nor other slightly more involved techy stuff when it comes to MIDI. Can anybody confirm this at this point?

Apparently there is some form of MIDI editing. It also quantizes to the 32nd note if you want it to.

Picture here of MIDI editing screen.
post #230 of 246
Lest everyone else has all the fun posting guitar manufacturer sites:

i give you the iGuitar:

http://www.brianmooreguitars.com/
post #231 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by LudwigVan
I know much of the discussion thus far has centered on acoustic instruments and audio capturing. But at this point I'm curious how GB would handle what I like to do, which is trancribe classical music into MIDI.


www.classicalarchives.com

do you work for them perhaps? the largest archive of classical music MIDI files on the net.
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post #232 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
At the risk of straying off topic, I wonder if you could offer a MIDI guitar that, , used pressure and location on the fingerboard to help figure out what notes you were playing, and sensors on the bridge to figure out which strings and how hard? Sure, you'd lose a lot of nuance, because it couldn't pick things like string bends up, but it seems like a simple enough solution for a cheap pure-MIDI guitar.

Says the drummer.

Roy 'futureman' wooten of Bela Fleck and the flecktones uses an intrusment called the Synthax drumitar. It was made by him with help from www.zendrum.com essentially it is just that.

it is shaped(more or less) like a guitar, but instead of strings, it just has pads all over the neck, as well as pads all over the body.

he plays it similarly to how you'd play a guitar, only he dials in drum sounds, since it's all pressure sensitive and fairly robust software, he is able to create quite a good sounding drum kit for live and record use.



It's a pretty wild solution, and as far as I know they aren't readily available, though I do think a company used to manufacture them, futch's is highly customized though. \


Midi pickups work surprisingly well, you can play really fast and complicated stuff and it tracks pretty darn well.

I have beaten its tracking before, but for casual playing, that isn't super virtuoso, they are just fine.

Paul, there are probably other solutions than the Roland gr-33 or V-guitar/bass system that would be cheaper, I'm sure there are midi pickups out there that don't work in a proprietary system like the gr-33 or v-guitar, I'm not familiar with them though.

but I do see your point, it would be a great product, a cheap midi guitar(or bass) that would come ready to use as a controller for any midi device. I'd like to see that made
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post #233 of 246
I have always wanted a Doomsday Device/Gitbox.
post #234 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by crazychester
I agree with that. But try as I might I can't see that any of the existing online music services offer that amount of value. They might flourish for a while but they won't survive in the long run in their current form. Strip away the hype and what you've got is a music store - online. And when the novelty wears off and people realise it's more of the same old same old, the music industry's going to find itself right back where it is at the moment. Screwed.

But online music stores have 3 major advantages:
* You can get 30-second previews
* You can buy tracks only, saving a bunch of money
* Even when buying an "album" online, you generally save money.
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post #235 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by _ alliance _
good job apple. way to please the minority of the minorities.

They said 1/2 of all US households have musicians.
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post #236 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by _ alliance _
thats a bogus stat. means nothing.

and you know that how?
Without evidence, your words mean nothing.
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post #237 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by ryaxnb
They said 1/2 of all US households have musicians.

I think he was referring to the Native American Semites. :

Yeah, 1/2 of all US households have at least one current/active musician. I am part of that group, and I can tell you, I know many other people who would be interested in this program... if they had Macs. So, really, it doesn't matter if there is a 50% Musician Rate in the US if only 3-5% have Macs at the moment. SO, I feel this app (along with the KILLER FREE QUICKTIME UTILITIES ) are going to be mean $$$$$ for Apple

sorry, i was censored there. It will mean money for Apple.
post #238 of 246
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
www.classicalarchives.com

do you work for them perhaps? the largest archive of classical music MIDI files on the net.

Yup, I'm very familiar with that site, but I don't work for them. I would like to publish a fair number of MIDI transcriptions there once I get some experience under my belt -- Classical MIDI Archives is missing a lot of good stuff as far as I'm concerned.
post #239 of 246
As far as the claim that half of american households have musicians, in the past week I've spoken to no less than 6 people at work that I've known for the past 4 years about Garage Band. These people, I found out for the first time, either play an instrument (3 of them, 2 guitar, one piano player) themselves or their kids play (if they have more than one child, all of them play instruments). So out of a total of 22 people referred to in conversation, the six at work and their immediate families, 13 play instruments.

Obviously, it's an unscientific study, but it's interesting how many people I know that play instruments and how it's never come up before.
post #240 of 246
I watched the Keynote again (and found a clip of just the Mayer performance). From following the bass, the chord changes in Mayer composition go from C to A flat to F minor back up to C. The rhythm guitar that kicks in stays in C the whole time, but that definitely works over the chord changes.

(Funny how he ragged on himself for demoing all of those MIDI sounds in the key of C, then the composition he played along with was also in C.)
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