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Microsoft Office 2004 - Page 3

post #81 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland
I read the weblogs of several Microsoft developers. Unfortunately, I don't have the address here at work.

I didn't know these were out there. If you have a chance to post the link when you get home, it would be most appreciated; I'd quite like to take a look at these.
post #82 of 193
Will do.

One of them is http://www.shahine.com/omar/

He's a lead developer and the programmer manager for Entourage.

http://blogs.msdn.com/decheung/

He's also connected to Office:Mac, I believe.
post #83 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland
Will do.

One of them is http://www.shahine.com/omar/

He's a lead developer and the programmer manager for Entourage.

http://blogs.msdn.com/decheung/

He's also connected to Office:Mac, I believe.

Thanks!
post #84 of 193
Thread Starter 
I notice at various retailers the Student version is between $129-$149.

Presumably what's in the package is exactly the same as what's inside the "Standard Upgrade" edition, but my question is, how does Microsoft know who qualifies as a student and who doesn't? Their license goes so far as to say parents of full time K-12 students are entitled to buy this edition...

...is a special (prior) educational serial code required?
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post #85 of 193
Nope. Microsoft makes no effort to verify that those buying the Student & Teacher edition actually qualify. It's pretty much a roundabout way of having a "Consumer" edition of Office without admitting that the price they charge businesses is rather absurd.

Since any family with children of school age, all college students, and all educational professionals qualify, over half of American households qualify for S&T Edition. And since the S&T software can be installed on any three machines (with no restriction on concurrent use), it's by far the most economical option for the average home user of Office.

$50 a seat is hard to beat.

Too bad Microsoft doesn't apply such logical pricing to their operating system (where they don't even have a reasonable family packages).
post #86 of 193
$150? Heh, if you're enrolled in the UT system (like I am), you can get it for about $6/disc
post #87 of 193
Yeah, I'll get it for like $6 for working at SMU. But for retail software, $50 a seat is hard to beat. Even AppleWorks can't compete with that.
post #88 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland
It's pretty much a roundabout way of having a "Consumer" edition of Office without admitting that the price they charge businesses is rather absurd.

It definitely is. A similar "Small Business" 5-user version of an Office suite for $199. would wipe the floor with Microsoft in this segment. I've never understood why Corel, Mariner, StarOffice don't take that tack.
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post #89 of 193
Word Perfect's office suite is $250, and the upgrade (which allows upgrading from MS Office) is always around $140 or so. But no one moves to it, in part for psychological reasons. Whenever anyone tries to undercut the established pricing in the market, people wonder "is this a cut rate product? is it a good deal, or just cheap software?"

Sun couldn't sell Star Office for $20. Repriced to $120 and it's moving fairly well now.

OpenOffice is free, and very usable on Windows and Linux, but there's no real move in progress towards it.

Microsoft pulled way ahead of the competition on the Mac in the mid-1980s, was the only DOS product vendor to make a smooth transition to Windows (since they started with Windows 2, while most of their competitors didn't try to run on Windows until Windows 3 or 3.1) and was the first to really integrate their four products into a genuine suite. They've outfoxed most everyone in the market, and are now nigh-unassailable.
post #90 of 193
Thread Starter 
For $130 I would consider the upgrade, as that price seems relatively fair. For $230 I don't think I'd bother, given how little new functionality there seems to be. MS was going to release two or three of those Demo things, but apparently we're only getting one? What I've seen so far barely qualifies for $130. Hopefully there's more. Stability (according to most users I've spoken with) would be the best new addition but I'm not holding my breath.
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post #91 of 193
The second Flash demo is up now.

The third'll be up before the product ships in May.
post #92 of 193
Thread Starter 
Not quite sure what to make of the new charting stuff in Excel. Looks somewhat easier than before, but I'm wondering if all the 3D and transparency features are still buried in all those convoluted dialogs Office v.X has.

Overall the Tool Palette looks more powerful than before because it integrates things into the workflow that used to be dialog-only territory... but is it becoming too overcrowded with crap becomes the new question. Painter syndrome would be a very good thing to avoid IMO.

Scrapbook will be pretty interesting for PowerPoint users if it can also hold audio and video clips, and not just static media. Seriously though, if this is all they can come up with after more than two years of development, that's pretty sad.
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post #93 of 193
There's also the Notes functionality in Word.

And Project Center in Entourage. As well as the revised Entourage interface.

These are very mature product categories. After 11 versions of Word, it's probably pretty hard to come up with more whiz-bang features.
post #94 of 193
The more I think about it, the Project Center looks awesome, but the lack of integration with iSync is really going to hurt.

No syncing with Address Book
No syncing of contacts and calendar to .mac

Naturally any integration with iChat and Safari is lost as well.

Also, since Palm Desktop has now been discontinued in favour of iSync, what's the status of the Entourage Palm conduit?
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post #95 of 193
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland
There's also the Notes functionality in Word.

And Project Center in Entourage. As well as the revised Entourage interface.

These are very mature product categories. After 11 versions of Word, it's probably pretty hard to come up with more whiz-bang features.


Yah. I think the Notes thing will be useful mostly to corporate types but even then its questionable. Given how ultra-PC everyone in the workplace is today, how many people speaking during important meetings are going to allow their words to be recorded verbatim like that? Not saying it's not a useful idea, just wondering what percentage of Word users are really going to tap into that.

The Entourage improvements are fairly encouraging but mostly superficial IMO.

You do make a great point about the maturity of these products though. And I have always maintained there's actually *too much* functionality in Word... that they would be better to "cut the glut" a little and make it more responsive, stable and elegant. I gues though, it would be tough for them to charge for a full upgrade if all they did was make it "more responsive and reliable."
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post #96 of 193
For me, notes is the killer app. From time to time, I like to be able to record a lecture or sermon and it is a great feature to be able to take notes at the same time that take you to the exact point in the recording. $150 seems very reasonable to me. I am not a student, nor do I have any children. However, I am a certified foster parent in the state of Oregon who happens to be between children right now. Would that still qualify me for edu discounts?
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post #97 of 193
People give me a break, it's not too complicated. You expect MICROSOFT to integrate with Apple's Address Book and iCal? Dream on. Never happen. This is from the company that discontinued IE. If anything they'll just can it citing "unfair competition and tie in" of Address Book and iCal... No not really but they aren't going to integrate. Not that MacBU probably doesn't want to. We forget they are a mini-company in a company. They all use and like Mac and would probably like to do that, but are simply not allowed to by their bosses in Redmond. That's like asking M$ to make a version of Windows Media player that actually worked 100% on Mac.
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post #98 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs


[...]

...that they would be better to "cut the glut" a little and make it more responsive, stable and elegant. I gues though, it would be tough for them to charge for a full upgrade if all they did was make it "more responsive and reliable."

They can keep the glut - they can cut the glut - I don't care. But what they absolutely should do is make it more responsive, stable and elegant. Perhaps some of the glut is responsible for the lack of progress responsiveness, stability and elegance - although I am convinced that they can achieve this progress and still include all the special features for those who choose to use them.

As for the special features themselves, I think that they should make them easier to use. Some things that were fairly straightforward to use in previous versions seem to be more complicated now.
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post #99 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
People give me a break, it's not too complicated. You expect MICROSOFT to integrate with Apple's Address Book and iCal? Dream on. Never happen. This is from the company that discontinued IE. If anything they'll just can it citing "unfair competition and tie in" of Address Book and iCal... No not really but they aren't going to integrate. Not that MacBU probably doesn't want to. We forget they are a mini-company in a company. They all use and like Mac and would probably like to do that, but are simply not allowed to by their bosses in Redmond. That's like asking M$ to make a version of Windows Media player that actually worked 100% on Mac.


Microsoft has supported Mac-specific technologies in Office before, like the ability to embed a Quicktime file in a Word document, IIRC.

While iCal can probably be safely ignored (since it doesn't inteface with other program) Address Book is a diferent story. AB is meant to be a system-wide database and will probably hook into more and more programs from 10.3 onward.

And while OpenOffice is currently vaporware, 2006 is approaching. MS should start playing very nice with the Mac community.
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post #100 of 193
Thread Starter 
Still waiting from news from ThinkFree Office in Cupertino. They were supposed to release a major update to their (pretty decent) suite Q4 of last year. Their site has been kind of stagnant. I'm worried they might go belly up soon. Would be too bad, but if it happens you can almost certainly point to their dependance on Apple's Java implementation as the reason for slow development cycles and mediocre performance (though the features were good).
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post #101 of 193
Well, I preordered my (educational) copy of Office:mac 2004 from the Apple Store as soon as it came up. The new version will be shipping just in time, before I graduate from law school at the end of May. Yay!

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post #102 of 193
I have a prerelease version of Office 2004 running now, so if anyone has any questions I'll be happy to talk about them.
So far I've mainly used Entourage and Word, and I have to say that both are noticably more responsive than v.X was--I feel like I'm using Office 2001 again.

Also, I dig the 3 column view in Entourage--didn't think I would be able to adapt, but it's a breeze and much, much better.
post #103 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by mrmister
I have a prerelease version of Office 2004 running now, so if anyone has any questions I'll be happy to talk about them.
So far I've mainly used Entourage and Word, and I have to say that both are noticably more responsive than v.X was--I feel like I'm using Office 2001 again.

Also, I dig the 3 column view in Entourage--didn't think I would be able to adapt, but it's a breeze and much, much better.

Does it support saving file that have names longer than 31 characters?
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post #104 of 193
Abso-fvcking-lutely. First thing I checked.

post #105 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkland

....Since any family with children of school age, all college students, and all educational professionals qualify, over half of American households qualify for S&T Edition. And since the S&T software can be installed on any three machines (with no restriction on concurrent use), it's by far the most economical option for the average home user of Office. ....

Isnt that discriminatory priceing, what about the single and childless, that could, theoreticly be a huge lawseuit waiting to happen, not realy legit, but this same American court system gave a braud 2.5mil for spilling her coffee and being surprised when it's hot, gee McDonalds aint that slow but realy, if this is a badly covered way to sell a "home" version, then it is descriminatory against the childless and/or single people and what about homosexuals who cant have kids....
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post #106 of 193
That isn't discriminatory pricing--it's just *pricing*, as in "we have a number of different prices." Unless it discriminates on the basis of race or something else that has been ruled illegal to discriminate on the basis of (which is a short list) there's nothing actionable here.
post #107 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Isnt that discriminatory priceing, what about the single and childless, that could, theoreticly be a huge lawseuit waiting to happen, not realy legit, but this same American court system gave a braud 2.5mil for spilling her coffee and being surprised when it's hot, gee McDonalds aint that slow but realy, if this is a badly covered way to sell a "home" version, then it is descriminatory against the childless and/or single people and what about homosexuals who cant have kids....

I'm about at the point where I'd pay $2.5 million to have people stop bringing this case up as evidence of America's "wonky" court system. There are much better examples. In the McDonalds case, McDonalds had been cited repeatedly for serving coffee at dangerously hot temperatures, sometimes in excess of legal limits. The cup in question did not have its lid securely fastened by McDonalds employees, and caused 2nd and 3rd degree burns to the elderly woman in question. The amount of money awarded by the jury in damages was later cut down to around 1/8 that amount by the judge, enough to cover medical bills. The original sum was the amount of gross receipts McDonalds brings in selling coffee on one day. McDonalds was selling a dangerously hot product, had been called on it before, and their refusal to turn down the heat on their coffee to more reasonable levels is what caused both the injury and the punitive damages amount.

And as for Office S&T edition _no one ever checks to see if the people buying the product actually qualify, and the BSA has no authority to inspect an individual's home. Nor would Microsoft ever want to. In other words, they're quietly encouraging all non-business users to buy S&T edition.

Kirk
post #108 of 193
Yeah do some freakin research people. Look up WHERE it spilled. If it spilled there on YOU, YOU would be pissed too. In fact you might not be able to have children. Savvy?
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post #109 of 193
Back on track: I have office 2004. is there anything people need to know about it?
post #110 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by mrmister
Back on track: I have office 2004. is there anything people need to know about it?

Do you know what format the audio recordings are kept in? Can you separate them out and convert it to MP3 or AAC?
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post #111 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by HOM
Do you know what format the audio recordings are kept in? Can you separate them out and convert it to MP3 or AAC?

where theres a will, there is a hacker give it a month or two
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post #112 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Yeah do some freakin research people. Look up WHERE it spilled. If it spilled there on YOU, YOU would be pissed too. In fact you might not be able to have children. Savvy?

The amount of damage and suffering is irrelevant before establishing who's responsible.

Personally, I think it's a twisted world where a shop is responsible for its product damaging customers when that product is exactly what the customers want to buy, including the quality that makes it more dangerous. People have preferred McD coffee over other alternatives because the hotter coffee is better for takeaway and/or is perceived to taste better.
I expect hot beverage to injure when spilled. People should watch out for it, regardless of its exact temperature.

Compare with top knife companies. A lot of people have never used a knife as sharp as they come in a factory box from Spyderco. If they slice half their finger off when trying out their new knife, is Spyderco guilty for not making knives dull enough to conform to some unwritten standard of mediocrity? Again, people know knives can cut, so a reasonable person would handle the knife with care, regardless of its exact sharpness.

Another parallel. My great-grandfather died of pneumonia he got immediately after getting hospitalized with near-lethal scalds. He forgot to add cold water before pouring a bucketful of boiling bathwater on himself. Who do you think my grandfather should have sued for his father's death? A boiler maker?
post #113 of 193
If people want to talk about all this litigious crap, could you please take it to private message or AO?

As far as Office 2004 goes, it lets you record in AAC, AIFF and WAV in a variety of quality levels, so i doubt there will be problems manipulating the clips. The default format is AAC.
post #114 of 193
I wonder if you could record interviews on an iBook, then use speech rec technology to dump it into Word? Maybe IBM could sell an add-on.
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post #115 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by mrmister

[...]

So far I've mainly used Entourage and Word, and I have to say that both are noticably more responsive than v.X was--I feel like I'm using Office 2001 again.

[...]

That's the part that I was waiting to hear. Looks like I will be coughing up a few $ to update my Office X. Probably the repsonsiveness level is what it should have been to begin with, but hey, I'll still pay, and with only a little whining.
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post #116 of 193
Quote:
Originally posted by mrmister
Back on track: I have office 2004. is there anything people need to know about it?

Do you know if you can set up the Entourage Palm Conduit to work with iSync?
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post #117 of 193
i don't know--I just launched the installer that comes with it, and judging from the notes it sounds like it expects to simply work with the HotSync Manager. There's no mention of iSync in the docs, so I'd guess no.
post #118 of 193
Any idea of whether or not the Entourage Exchange support still requires MS Server 2000+?

My company has clung to the dead-horse 5.5 release out of fear & laziness, and I would love for "true" exchange support (plug in your server, name & password) like you get in Outlook 2001.


Also, any ability to support photos for address book entries like Apple's Address Book?
post #119 of 193
I did some digging, but I can't tell what the specific specs are for Exchange support. I can say that from the help descriptions it sounds like it works more like Outlook 2001, but I don't have Exchange servers to fiddle with.

Address book entries have space for pictures, if that's what you mean by support.
post #120 of 193
Thread Starter 
According to Amazon, May 19th is the release date for Office with VPC. May 10th for the non-VPC versions.

Just thought you guys might want to know / update your carts. Looks like a pretty decent discount on the Professional upgrade too. Not sure I need VPC for anything so I'll probably use my lifelong learner status to buy the eductional edition, but it was worth mentioning in case any of you are VPC geeks.
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