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Official! New iPods!!!! - Page 2

post #41 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Look at the SE T610 sales figures in the US to see why this statement is full of crap. Americans like small too.

Acccording to Japanese sources the Ipod sales figures are quite low because of the large form factor. So Americans obviously don't like small quite as much as Asians now do they.
post #42 of 112
Its evolution instead of revolution. I also think that when it drops $70-100, it will sell in real numbers. BUT - I do not see many people buying this as a replacement for a current iPod. I'm still on a 2-year old 5gigger, which is fine. Maybe in a few years time, when you can get a cheaper version with ~15 gigs storage, I'll buy, but only if there are versions of the microphone and digital media reader that work with it (note: the iPod mini does NOT work with the current versions of these products)

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post #43 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebrie
These are totally different products. the iPod Mini goes after the flash market. It's like comparing $/ghz with Mac vs PC.

But the iPod mini is not a flash player, it still has a hard drive.

I still find it more fragile than a flash based player. Some people, some who have had hard drives die on them, will still be reluctant to buy them and use them in extreme conditions. One benefit of flash players over hard drive players is that the flash can take a beating/bumps/scrapes and keep chugging along. There are no moving parts. (Not counting the scroll wheel) If I encounter those conditions I would use a flash player instead of my iPod.
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post #44 of 112
DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL...................

Yup, when it gets either cheaper or bigger capacity I'll even get one. And a Mic. When production scales up and Flash gets cheaper this year, the price will drop probably by 50% or more.

One thing: Apple is getting retarded again with proprietary connections. ADC is dumb. So is the "Dock". What the crap is the reason for the iPod "Dock?" It makes charging a little more convenient but a real pain if you forget your Dock and go anywhere. A regular FireWire port added would be peachy.
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post #45 of 112
Apple is going to own the MP3 player market in 3 months. Mark my words. Steve was right, the high end flash player is now owned by the iPod mini. What the iPod did for the hard drive market the mini is going to do for the high end flash market. Compared to other iPods this isn't the greatest deal, but compared to a $199 flash player there is no question which is better.

Well done Apple, soon your market share will be 60%.
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post #46 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
THIS THING COMES TWO YEARS LATER AND HOLDS THE SAME AMMOUNT OF MUSIC IN A SMALLER ENCLOSURE (WITH COLORS hehe) AND COSTS $150 LESS!!!

Yes, in a vacuum $249 isn't unreasonable. But it's not in a vacuum; the 15 GB model is only $50 more, so I don't see why anybody would buy the mini. Yeah, it's tiny and cute, but so was the Cube.
post #47 of 112
Yup -- the point about the 15GB being only $50 more is well-taken. However, if you're a consumer, $50 is $50. If a dad's out shopping for his 12-year-old, he's going to choose the model that's $50 more, not $100 more. But it does make me wonder -- I guess the miniaturization process is that costly? I'm curious to see this colored anodized aluminum in person, too.
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post #48 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by 3.1416
Yes, in a vacuum $249 isn't unreasonable. But it's not in a vacuum; the 15 GB model is only $50 more, so I don't see why anybody would buy the mini. Yeah, it's tiny and cute, but so was the Cube.

No, it's not a vacuum. For $219 you can get thisPOS Rio that is only 1.5GB or you cen get this over priced 256 MB player. Rio will go the way of the dodo in a few months.
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post #49 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebrie
These are totally different products. the iPod Mini goes after the flash market. It's like comparing $/ghz with Mac vs PC.

What is this "flash market" exactly, though? Who is in it that would buy a $249 iPod Mini yet couldn't be sold on getting another 11 GB of storage for 50 bucks?

What demographic is Apple going after here? The Asian market sounds plausible, but they wouldn't make this the topper of a MWSF keynote if it were just for Japan.

I'm really torn on this one... one second I think it's great, the next I think it sucks. \
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post #50 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
You can say that about everything Apple or any other tech firm produces. All this whining reminds me of when the iPod first came out. "Its' just an mp3 player with a hard drive and it costs so much!" Well, did you see the sales chart have you read all the press? Sales are climbing and now they offer more choice and a greater range of prices. If you want a $99 iPod you can wait a few years while the rest of us have fun with our iPods.

Actually, this isn't what I said... the statement I was making was related to the price "ranges" between a mini and regular. I can pay 50 bucks more for the latest and greatest 15GB iPod, so why go for the 4GB version? In terms of size, it really isn't as dramatic as everyone is making it out to be. The colors are awesome, but are they worth it? Lastly, this doesn't really seem like price differentation when the iPods themselves are separated by 100 dollar increments.

Just as an additional note, don't assume we won't buy one because the price is high, it has never stopped me before.. after all it is still Apple :-)
post #51 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by tetzel1517
What is this "flash market" exactly, though? Who is in it that would buy a $249 iPod Mini yet couldn't be sold on getting another 11 GB of storage for 50 bucks?

Probably for running, exercising, etc. The mini is roughly 40% less in weight and volume than a 40GB iPod. If I were in the market, I'd buy a mini: 1000 songs at any given time is fine for me.
post #52 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Ebby
There are no moving parts. (Not counting the scroll wheel) If I encounter those conditions I would use a flash player instead of my iPod.

Does this mini iPod have a moving scroll wheel? I thought it was still solid state touch pad but with clickable buttons tucked underneath.
post #53 of 112
Originally posted by shatteringglass
It all depends on what is worth more to you. 9GB or $50. I'll pick the 9GB.


An interesting comment, looks like Apple found a sneaky but successful way to do two things here.

1.) If people would rather have the 9 GB they will have to shell out $50 more than they would for the smaller iPod...but they will still be buying an Apple product and spending $300.

2.) Some people just WILL NOT spend $300 on a music player and maybe this new iPod will be more reasonable, at least in the minds of some budget tight people and the 9 GB of storage is not an issue with them. Some people I'm sure care not about the storage as strongly as they do the bottom line, and $50 is a nice chunk of savings....also take into account the fact that this iPod is $230 for education.

Apple is leading in market share in the MP3 player market while having offered very expensive players. There is no need to hurry and sacrifice profit at this point in order to bolster an already outrageous market share. Nobody is coming close to catching up with the current iPods, now the small, colorful, cheap MP3 player market just got a new kid on the block...and it's badass. Apple will undoubtedly lower prices as it sees fit and I think they have secured themselves for a long, long time into the future as the leader in the MP3 player/computer music market. Great job Steve Jobs
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post #54 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by satchmo
Does this mini iPod have a moving scroll wheel? I thought it was still solid state touch pad but with clickable buttons tucked underneath.

The scroll wheel is solid state. You push the sides to click the buttons.
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post #55 of 112
The market is very complex. Some want small size.... others don't care about size (within reason). Some want enormous capacity, others want less. People and their needs are not the same. When you use your own wants as a basis you'll either fall into the Yes or No camp.

One question: Any info on which hard drive is being used. I suspect it is a Toshiba 1 inch. The Rio introduced today seems to use a 1 1/2 inch drive based on the size of the player.
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post #56 of 112
$229 for education.

Don't forget how much of the market is students.
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post #57 of 112
Let's go through Joe Consumer's thought process:[list=a][*]"I have this trip I'd like to go on. I need to put my 150 mp3s on a player. Huh. I wonder what players are out there."[*]Joe goes to Google, and types in "portable mp3 player."[*]He sees an ad for iPod on some mp3 site with a bunch of listings for other (under $250 players) and thinks, "I've heard about that iPod. I'll check it out."[*]He clicks, and discovers at Apple's web site that the iPod mini can hold 1,000 songs for $249.[*]"Huh," he thinks, "I don't know that I want to pay THAT much. That other site had some for $179, and those models would still leave some room for expansion when I get more songs. I'll try back there."[*]Apple lost a sale.[/list=a]
They're ALL portable music players folks. People FIRST look at price, then style, then features. Unfortunately, Apple is marketing the iPod mini in the wrong order.
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post #58 of 112
You have to figure in a couple things here:

-The 4GB Rio that was announced today is the same price
-They will be giving away all those songs through the Pepsi promotion which will probably boost iPod sales
-They are betting on people following the "$50 for almost 4x the capacity" in order to sell more of the expensive ones

I think they will lower the prices once the Pepsi promo is over.

On a side not: Please, let those colors be nicer in real life. They look awfully girly on the website.
post #59 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Let's go through Joe Consumer's thought process:[list=a][*]"I have this trip I'd like to go on. I need to put my 150 mp3s on a player. Huh. I wonder what players are out there.[*]Joe goes to Google, and types in "portable mp3 player."[*]He sees an ad for iPod on some mp3 site with a bunch of listings for other (under $250 players) and thinks, "I've heard about that iPod. I'll check it out."[*]He clicks, and discovers at Apple's web site that the iPod mini can hold 1,000 songs for $249.[*]"Huh," he thinks, "I don't know that I want to pay THAT much. That other site had some for $179, and those models would still leave some room for expansion when I get more songs. I'll try back there."[*]Apple lost a sale.[/list=a]
They're ALL portable music players folks. People FIRST look at price, then style, then features. Unfortunately, Apple is marketing the iPod mini in the wrong order.

Wait, show me that $179 MP3 player that will hold 150 songs.
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post #60 of 112
Looking at the iPod mini price issue from a different angle for a moment.

With all the rumors of $99 iPods following very good Christmas sales perhaps Apple are reacting to events a bit and a) want to cash in on the iPods must have status b) purposely maintained the price a bit higher than expected in order to reiterate the quality of the brand and the product - that is to keep it desirable. Did anyone else notice the "so what" attitude of the audience at the expo to the M$ offer of a free office X upgrade to Office 2004, clever market saturation on their part perhaps but not likely to create a lot of desire. Apple's new iPod mini has provoked in most people that same old feeling that Apple products always do - desire and resentment at the price. This way at least they can reduce the price a bit in a few months (and don't forget also that the dollar is on the floor right now so that affects things too) but when they do they will already have enough mind-share in terms of quality and desire. The momentum in this market is all with Apple, after all.
post #61 of 112
Quote:
Apple is leading in market share in the MP3 player market while having offered very expensive players. There is no need to hurry and sacrifice profit at this point in order to bolster an already outrageous market share.

You rarely get a second chance to squeeze out the competition.

$249 gives the competition some room to live in. $200 is big psychological barrier, price-wise. True, the sub-$200 MP3 players are crap, and anyone with even two connected brain cells will realize that an extra $50 gets you way more in value, but I suspect that a certain segment of the target demographic just won't spend more than $200, and the pricing of the mini-iPod doesn't get to that segment. This gives the competitors another 6-12 months to get their act together, as opposed to $199, which would crush the rebellion with one swift stroke!

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post #62 of 112
The price obviously prevents the new miniPods from cannibalizing the sales of the regular iPods. The only questions are: do you want color? how important is the smaller size to you? is saving $50 worth it?

I think the price can drop if needed. Of course, I've said that before, and I've always been wrong with regard to Apple, save a modest price break or two. What's more likely is that as the iPod HD volumes increase, the miniPod Flash memory will increase, and this model will be bumped into a lower cost bracket with another at $250 taking its place.
post #63 of 112
Where the heck are all you people coming up with this notion that Apple will lower the price?
And even if they do, it's more likely to happen a year from now...not likely after some Pepsi promotion a month away.

I think Apple lost a chance at going for the jugular. Will it sell? Yes, and probably briskly...but breaking the psychological $200 barrier ($199) would have opened the floodgates.
post #64 of 112
For $269, I can get the 20Gb Rio Karma. Why I should I pay $20 less for 16Gb less?
post #65 of 112
Quote:
People FIRST look at price, then style, then features.

If that was the case I don't think Apple would have sold 2 million iPods.

Quote:
the miniPod Flash memory will increase

Huh? The iPod Mini has a HD not flash memory.
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post #66 of 112
CNBC is gushing all over the new iPod mini. Their analyst just said that Apple owned the MP3 market and people should start selling their competitor's stock.
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post #67 of 112
"its only 50 bucks more to get a 15 GB..." awesome, so ipod sales go up. clever marketing if you ask me. price will drop in 3 months as stated before, and rio, along with all those other companies i hate, can go bankrupt and fail.
post #68 of 112
My 3 kids have older iPods and I guarantee you that they're going to want one of these when they get home from school! Maybe it's time to disconnect the cable modem

As a shareholder I'm fine with what they're doing. The iPod is hot, I want them to make as much from them as they can while they can. I imagine that other shareholders feel the same way. It provides a nice bridge to the 15GB model. My wife today said that she really doesn't need 10GB and would love to have a smaller one to exercise with.

So you're paying for a small form factor. You're stupid to buy a Flash based player that can't begin to come close to this in storage. It's similar in price to many home stereos but portable. Wait 6 months and it'll be around $200 is my guess.

This will sell like hotcakes. Hell, Best Buy and the like sold all of their iPods around Christmas without really even trying (our local store had them buried at the bottom of a shelf - it was difficult to see them unless you were looking for them).
post #69 of 112
I agree... at $199 (or even $229) retail it would have been a clear advantage over the Rio offering (and others in that range) and would simply OWN that market. Right now its really not a clear divsion from the rest of the iPod line and at its current pricing it gives the competition some breathing room. If Apple continues to refuse to sacrifice margin for marketshare here they will lose. They NEED marketshare now in order for AAC to take firm hold, in order for them to still be in this music business later.

Someone's comment of Apple missing the opportunity to go for the jugular with pricing is right on imo. They could have crushed competition and STILL had a lot of "hey $79 (or $100) isn't that much more for the big iPod with 3.5x the storage" upsells.

Sigh. I hope Apple knows what they are doing.
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post #70 of 112
Some people seem confused, so:

the iPod Mini is NOT Flash-based, it has a HD.

STank u.
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post #71 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
One thing: Apple is getting retarded again with proprietary connections. ADC is dumb. So is the "Dock". What the crap is the reason for the iPod "Dock?" It makes charging a little more convenient but a real pain if you forget your Dock and go anywhere. A regular FireWire port added would be peachy.

I agree with you about proprietary connectors to a certain extent.

There was a rumour floating around a while back that Apple were going to ditch the conventional 3.5mm headphone connector from future generations of iPods, because, the headphone socket was physically too large, and it was limiting how small they could shrink the iPod.

So if their product designers are struggling to fit a 3.5mm headphone jack into the iPod there's no way they're going to be able to accomodate a conventional 6-pin FireWire connector which is considerably larger.

As products get smaller, manufacturers are increasingly having to turn to proprietary solutions for their proprietary problems.

The ADC interface is fantastic. Having only a single cable running between the display and the base unit is not only tidy but also easier for newbees to understand.

I guess if a proprietary connector adds value to a product, or is required, then it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's a different story when a proprietary interface is there purely to limit upgrade paths etc.

On another note - I was disappointed to learn that the iPod mini isn't flash based. To be honest, I couldn't see how it could be flash based at that price anyway. I think SJ made a very clever sales pitch - giving the impression that it was a flash based player without actually saying anything to the effect.

I can't help but wonder, that if grabbing that high-end flash market share was Apple's concern, they should have re-introduced the original 5GB iPod. Obviously, the price of a particular product is a big issue in this market - otherwise the buyer would have bought a conventional iPod before now. If Apple wants to grab this market, they should have introduced a very aggresively priced product. Surely they still have the production plans and relationships in place, and surely the value of the 5GB drive has fallen by now.

It's common sense that given this background, they could have priced the original 5GB unit more aggresively than a brand new product based on an entirely new type of drive. I fear that only the design conscious buyer who doesn't care about price will buy the new iPod mini, and that ultimately the mini will eat into the original iPod's market share rather than the high-end flash market.
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post #72 of 112
Contrary to popular demand, people DO shop for price first. That's why every ad you see has "starting at..." in them, why women only buy clothes on sale, and why Wal-mart can sell out of cheap-o DVD players the day after Thanksgiving.

I'm not convinced the iPod mini's price is low enough. Do I think they will sell well? They might. Do I WANT them to sell well? Of course, or else I wouldn't be griping about it! I just think that when people walk into Best Buy and see cheaper mp3 players (no matter how much crappier, smaller capacity, etc.), they're going to go for them instead.

I'm thinking the Pepsi promotion might help the iPod mini's cause, though. We'll just have to see, and I'll echo what others are saying: I hope Apple knows what it's doing.

I've just shaken my head too many times when Apple's released a product that was SOOOO cool that they thought they could put an extra high price on it thinking that the consumer would pay...and they didn't. Can we say the original Macintosh? The Cube? The flat-panel iMac?
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post #73 of 112
post #74 of 112
There's no sign of the iPod mini on the UK Apple website, yet.

In America, the 15GB iPod costs $299 right? That should be about £200, except in the UK we pay roughly £249 for it (about the equivalent of $377).

I'm guessing that the iPod mini, which you guys pay $249 for, will come in at about £199 give or take. So we are effectively paying $300 for it.

Nice.

The general rule of thumb, when calculating the prices of electrical goods in the UK, is simply to ignore the exchange rate, and just swap out the $ sign for the £ sign. That's why Britain is called "Treasure Island" by manufacturers. Toyota cars were a good example a few years back. Certain models were actually built in the UK, and then exported. It was cheaper to buy the cars from the countries that we exported them to, than it was to buy them in the UK.

I calculated, that it was cheaper for me to visit my friend in the States, by a 23" Cinema Display whilst I was over there, fly back, declare it at UK customs, and pay the VAT - than it was to buy it from my local Apple dealer in Glasgow.

I feel sorry for the poor sods in Europe who pay even more than UK buyers. The only bonus is that in the UK we get a 12 month warranty rather than the 90 day "comedy" warranty that you guys in the US get.
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post #75 of 112
I was watching the streamed keynote, and as soon as Steve said $249, I became more and more convinced that he would finish his sales pitch by adding:

'There is one more thing; a 2GB iPod mini for $199' (or even $149).

At the time, I was shocked, shocked, when the 2GB iPod mini never arrived.



But 3 hours later... I now think this is another Apple masterstroke. The profit margin on this must be fat, and you just know they'll sell in huge numbers.

Even though I've got a 40GB iPod, one month of pre-keynote rumors convinced me I needed a cheapo iPod for running and stuff. Tonight, I'm faced with paying $249. But I know I really want one...

post #76 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by åsen
But 3 hours later... I now think this is another Apple masterstroke. The profit margin on this must be fat, and you just know they'll sell in huge numbers.

Even though I've got a 40GB iPod, one month of pre-keynote rumors convinced me I needed a cheapo iPod for running and stuff. Tonight, I'm faced with paying $249. But I know I really want one...


You and millions of others are under Steve's RDF.
post #77 of 112
Cosmo

Why have iPod sales been increasing? Not because Joe goes to Google and types in MP3 players. He buys because his friends start lusting after it, and so he starts lusting after it.

People buy design, even in Kansas (Gratuitous big city annoying comment). They also buy for function and convenience, which makes this mini iPod perfect!

Cheers




Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Let's go through Joe Consumer's thought process:[list=a][*]"I have this trip I'd like to go on. I need to put my 150 mp3s on a player. Huh. I wonder what players are out there."[*]Joe goes to Google, and types in "portable mp3 player."[*]He sees an ad for iPod on some mp3 site with a bunch of listings for other (under $250 players) and thinks, "I've heard about that iPod. I'll check it out."[*]He clicks, and discovers at Apple's web site that the iPod mini can hold 1,000 songs for $249.[*]"Huh," he thinks, "I don't know that I want to pay THAT much. That other site had some for $179, and those models would still leave some room for expansion when I get more songs. I'll try back there."[*]Apple lost a sale.[/list=a]
They're ALL portable music players folks. People FIRST look at price, then style, then features. Unfortunately, Apple is marketing the iPod mini in the wrong order.
post #78 of 112
Tell me, how does that "scroll wheel" thing work? It says the buttons are under the scroll wheel...

The wheel is still solid state, isn't it? m.
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post #79 of 112
If everyone would just stop being so short sighted...$249 is not a lot of money at all. If people know that iTMS and the iPod is the best music experience then they will buy into it if thats what they want to spend their money on.

Homerun, Apple wins.
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post #80 of 112
Quote:
Originally posted by Merovingian
Tell me, how does that "scroll wheel" thing work? It says the buttons are under the scroll wheel...

The wheel is still solid state, isn't it? m.

If you reread this thread, I pointed out that you press down on the scroll wheel at one of the four areas to click. For normal operation you just scroll as normal.
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